Tip for Stansbury and a message to posters who value depth in college hoops.....

[Columbus Dawg]

Ohio State just got a #1 seed and they won the Big 10 tournament today. They play 6 guys. That's it.

UK just won the SECT and they played 7 guys more than 1 minute. Coach Cal kind of knows what he's doing too.

Duke and NC played today. Each team only played 7 guys.

John Wooden played 7. He said one of his regrets in coaching is that he played too many players early in his career.

Do I need to keep going?

Identify your starting 5. Find 1 reserve for the frontcourt and 1 reserve for the backcourt and leave everyone else on the bench. And figure this out before the season starts...please.

 

[Columbus Dawg]

Ohio State just got a #1 seed and they won the Big 10 tournament today. They play 6 guys. That's it.

UK just won the SECT and they played 7 guys more than 1 minute. Coach Cal kind of knows what he's doing too.

Duke and NC played today. Each team only played 7 guys.

John Wooden played 7. He said one of his regrets in coaching is that he played too many players early in his career.

Do I need to keep going?

Identify your starting 5. Find 1 reserve for the frontcourt and 1 reserve for the backcourt and leave everyone else on the bench. And figure this out before the season starts...please.

 

[patdog]

Give your 5 starters 32 minutes and the 2 reserves 20 each. That's plenty of rest for everyone. For another example, look at our 1996 Final Four team. We basically had Whit Hughes and Tyrone Washington off the bench and that was it.

 

[Columbus Dawg]

We played 8guys more than 12 minutes in almost every game.I just pulled up the boxscore forHawaii andwe played 8 guys 9 or more minutes and this is when we were without Bost AND Sidney.

It hurts your continuity and your chemistry. If your top 6 guys are getting all the minutes everyone who plays is happy and you don't have to hold your breath for those 5 minutes every game when 4 bench guys are on the floor. There have even been times where Stans has gone 5 in and 5 out. This is a terrible strategy unless you are pressing full court the entire game.

 

[Columbus Dawg]

Coaches can have 5 timeouts each in the 2nd half + 4 official timeouts.There are many games when you have 14 timeouts in a 20 minutes 2nd half. Not to mention free throws, dead balls, etc. And in the NCAAT they add about 30 seconds to each full timeout.

 

[UpTheMiddlex3Punt]

Turns out they were our starters and seemed to get most of the minutes (Power, Frazier, Roberts, Vincent, and Bowers).<div>
</div><div>Basketball players are sort of like outfielders in baseball. Give me 3 outfielders who can hit 300 over 6 that hit 250. Same with basketball. If you get the guys conditioned and dictate the game tempo, there is no reason for a player to come out due to exhaustion. I suppose if you have a bench full of moderately good players you can try to wear out the other team's starters, but this seems like it would be a losing strategy more often than not. It also requires that your moderately good starters have been in a good conditioning program.</div>

 

[BoDawg.sixpack]

[list type=decimal]
[*]Bost --- D. Smith
[*]Bryant --- Steele
[*]Hood ---- Steele
[*]Moultrie --- Lewis
[*]Sidney ---- Lewis[/list]

Assuming Steele comes back 100%, it's going to be hard not to play eight. Lewis has improved and will continue to provide solid minutes off the bench. Deville Smith may be the odd man out, and chances are he could really benefit from a red shirt. But there again you are assuming Bost can go the whole season without injury, he is a very physical player.</p>

 

[Columbus Dawg]

between our Top 5 and our reserves that Stans had no choice. Kind of like this year after we lost Steele, Twanny, and Elgin.

But one thing i remember about that season is that Stans started Marcus Campbell in Game 1 and we kept winning so he stuck with that same starting 5 every game even thoughhe knew it wasn'tour best5. Well it eventually cost us against UK. I say it cost us because we trotted Campbell out there to start the 2nd half and he just killed us. UK went on a big run before we could get Power in the game. We ended up losing on a last second shot.Power started the rest of the year after that. So basically the only reason we started Campbell was just a superstition.

Campbell had a funny line about that. We lost another game later in the season so Campbell said, "Am I starting tonight coach?"Coach said, Huh? and Campbell said last time we lost I went to the bench well now that we lost again am I back in?

 

[Columbus Dawg]

each.Ohio State's PG played 40 minutes today and theirforward played 39.We will just have to wait and see on Steele. I heard he ripped his knee up pretty good and may even need a redshirt next year.

Lewis will be a valuable sub for Sidney and Moultrie. Moultrie can also slide to the 5 and Hood to the 4. 2 guard appears to be the weak spot right now. Bryant needs to shoot 500 jumpers a day. </p>

 

[windcrysmary]

hope rick read it too... the sad part is that it's ok for me to learn something from the post, not for a 12 year SEC coach

 

[mstateglfr]

Who wants a thin and inexperienced bench? Where the he'll is that going to take a team, typically?

Damn right I value depth. Why would you value subbing scrubs into a game?

Players get hurt, we need capable replacements. We have an orca for a post player, we need capable replacements. We get into foul trouble, we need capable replacements.

Yeah I get that a small rotation can lead to better chemistry and more success. It can also lead to an inexperienced bench and lots of transfers of talented players when they are log jammed behind the starter for their position that gets all the minutes.

Bost goes down with a broken hand or foot halfway thru the season and he has averaged 36min. Then what?
Sidney pulls something and can't halfass his way up and down the court, so he quarterasses it. Then what?
Post players continue to commit dumb and lazy fouls and are relegated to the bench. Then what?
You need depth to respond to all these situations.

 

[FQDawg]

We'll have people on this board screaming that he sticks with his "favorites" too much or that he isn't letting the young guys develop because he isn't giving them enough minutes.

 

[alabamadog]

as you said, thats assuming he comes back 100%.

 

[Johnson85]

We played 8guys more than 12 minutes in almost every game.

You want your top guys to get the majority of the minutes, andcome later part of conference schedule and tournament time, 7 guys is probably the bestrotation assuming your players are versatile enough that 2 subs can allow you to get all five starters rest.

But during the season, it's a good idea for you to get your 8-10 players some game time experience, especiallyif they're young. One, it keeps them motivated and gets them some game time experience to complement their workouts (think how glad Oklahoma St., UK, Louisville, UAB, Troy, etc. are that we gave their players early playing time) and two, if you get into foul trouble in the tourney, you're not putting somebody in there who hasn't seen meaningful minutes since highschool.

 

[Original48]

until we get a new strength and conditioning coach.

 

[NewTweederEndzoneDance]

Of course you can get away with playing 6-7 guys when you have 4-5 all-league players on the court. How do you suggest we maintain a shorter bench when we have a guy like Sidney who is incapable of staying in the game more than 4 consecutive minutes? What if someone gets hurt? We'd better have an 8th or 9th guy ready to go just in case.

The biggest difference in us and those two teams you named is that: (1) they have some of the absolute top athletes in college basketball and (2) their 8th and 9th guys off the bench (who apparently don't play much) are as good as if not better than our 5th - 7th guys.

Playing 8-9 guys consistently only hurts your "chemistry" when you don't play actual team basketball. So I guess in that sense, you are correct that it hurts us. Florida had 8 guys that averaged 17+ minutes this season. That really seemed to hurt them...

 

[newyorkdawg]

Hyche played significant minutes also. He was the only one to rest Bullard and Super D.

 

[tenureplan]

.

 

[shsdawg]

Give your 5 starters 32 minutes and the 2 reserves 20 each. That's plenty of rest for everyone. For another example, look at our 1996 Final Four team. We basically had Whit Hughes and Tyrone Washington off the bench and that was it.

You forgot Bart Hyche.

 

[Columbus Dawg]

Daryl Wilson: 39 min
Bullard: 38
Dampier: 37
Dontae: 33
Walters: 23
Whit: 20
Hyche: 8
Tyrone: 2

 

[Columbus Dawg]

have an 8th and 9th guy better than our 8th and 9th guy, but you are ok with us playing 8-9players because someone might get hurt....Interesting.

</p>

 

[Tds &amp; Beer]

and keeps everyone more on the same page. But if you start the season with no depth, it will come back to bite you in the ace. Sidney will miss a game or two to injury. As big and dramatic as he is, he'll at least get banged up. Someone else will likely have some sort of injury during the year. You gotta have people that can come in and play for them. But you do want to have that small group that runs the team and plays the majority of minutes. We need Steele to be healthy and I think we'll have the perfect mix. Next year's freshman can't get too frustrated if they don't see a lot of minutes, but at the same time, they will be good role players. With Sidney, Lewis, Moultrie, Hood, we should be able to rotate the big guys enough that Riek won't be much of a factor, thank God.

 

[cowbell88]

Until we can get players that can play good solid defense, without getting into early foul trouble (see kodi, syndey, ravern); expect to see 8-10 getting time.

 

[NewTweederEndzoneDance]

have an 8th and 9th guy better than our 8th and 9th guy, but you are ok with us playing 8-9players because someone might get hurt....Interesting.

</p>

but we'd have been a much better team with them this year. What exactly is your point?

I don't have a problem with using a short bench if you have no depth, but having depth is MUCH better than not... Stating that it is not is just dubmassery at its finest

 

[kired]

"We played 8guys more than 12 minutes in almost every game"

This only happened 3 times in 17 SEC games (oneof these was during the RJsuspension & we split minutes between Steele, Bryant, & Smith). If you drop that to 10 minutes, it still only happened 5 times (one of those being a blowout over Auburn).

We basically did what you're asking for - played our starters almost 80% of the time with 2 main backups. After the first few SEC games, we seemed to settle on Steele & Lewis as our two backups. Other thanwhen Johnson was suspended & after Steele got hurt, there were only 4 of 17 SEC games where Byant playedmore than 10 minutes.

Numbers during SEC competition: starters played 78% of our minutes (this includes Steele during the RJ suspension), the primary backups played 19% (Steele, Lewis, Bryant), and everyone else played 3%.

Our #9 & 10 guys (Smith & Riek) played88 minutes in 17 games. Only 27 of those minutes were in SEC games we lost.

With all this said - I had no problem with us playing 8 guys this year. Most of us agree that Steele & Lewis were our best backups. That 8th guy (Bryant) was mostly used out of necessity - due to injuries, suspensions, and the lack of a decent ball handler withBost on the bench. I do agree with you that the goal should be to use primarily 7 guys & never depend on more than 8.

 

[Columbus Dawg]

I don't have a problem with using a short bench if you have no depth, but having depth is MUCH better than not... Stating that it is not is just dubmassery at its finest

Duke, North Carolina, UK, Ohio State, John Wooden UCLA teams all had much better depth than our team. But they gave 6 players the majority of the minutes and only played 7.We are giving double digit minutes to 8 players and playing 9. And it's not just this year, it's every year. You don't have to have a backup C, PF, SF, SG, PG. If Ravern needs a rest you don't have to play Shaun Smith. Brian Bryant didn't have to be pigeonholed as the backup PG and not allowed to play SG the first 12 games of conference play.

The only time depth comes into play is if you have injuries or serious foul trouble. But you don't play lesser players just in case someone goes down.

 

[Columbus Dawg]

We had 10 guys average 15 or more minutes per game. Of course that is skewed because Bost andSidney were ineligible.I was actually glad that Elgin and Twanny transferred because I knew it would force Stans to tighten his rotation.

As the season goes on Stans does tend to tighten it up a little, but we always drop non-conference games by playing too many players and tinkering with the rotation. I have just seen so many posts on here talking about depth, but it's clear that the Top teams and Top coaches are only playing 7 guys.

 

[NewTweederEndzoneDance]

I'm not advocating playing Riek over Augustus or Sidney or having him take their minutes. If you are in a situation where you only have 6 players that deserve to be out there, then by all means, play your best 6 and sub situationally with the others to make it through the game.

Just because those teams only play 6-7 this year, or Wooden in the past (who by the way played in a completely different era, so its almost like comparing apples to oranges) does not mean that playing a deep bench is a bad thing, if you have the players to do it. Those same teams/coaches have gone very deep in the past and been successful that way.

Ideally, you'd like to have 8-9 guys who can all play without the level of play drop off. ANY coach would play 8-9 if they had that. When they don't, they shrink the bench. I do get it, but I disagree with your premise that having a deep bench is a bad thing. As many times as you can say, "well this team and that team have a short bench and look at them", I can come right back and say, "well look at Florida and Belmont and whomever, they have deep benches and look at them."

I'm not arguing with you that Stans has consistently mishandled his teams. This argument is about your premise and the way you are taking a small sample size and proclaiming it to be the be all end all of coaching methods.