Too bad Cohen burned up Stratton's arm last week**
- Thread starter Todd4State
- Start date
And I agree that pitching into the 140s is probably excessive. I have zero trouble going into the 120s regularly. Every player is different. Strasburg blew his arm out under the strictest pitch count/workout regimen in the history of baseball. You just never know...
It's not unusual for guys to throw 80+ pitch bullpens leading into a season. With good stretching, long toss, and conditioning habits, the risk can be minimized, especially when only pitching once every 7 days...
Our overall arm troubles have improved significantly under Cohen, especially the past two seasons...
It's not unusual for guys to throw 80+ pitch bullpens leading into a season. With good stretching, long toss, and conditioning habits, the risk can be minimized, especially when only pitching once every 7 days...
Our overall arm troubles have improved significantly under Cohen, especially the past two seasons...
it's hard to say that- there's no doubt that Cohen's guys have more talent than the Polk recruits post Mitch Moreland class- but as far sa being injured, talent and health are separate issues.
I do think that some of the guys that Cohen inherited were hurt from Russ McNickle's tenure.
Injuries to pitchers are going to happen. Look at MLB- I guarantee you that those people know how to handle pitchers. And yet, Tommy John is one of if not the most common injury in the sport. Your body is not meant to throw a ball overhand at 90+ MPH period.
All you can do is manage and condition your pitching staff as well as possible and hope for the best.
The thing is- the new way of thinking is that having guys throw more rather than limiting them- like the Nationals did to Strasburg- is that actually makes pitchers more prone to injury. Nowadays, the new way of thinking is having pitchers run more and run sprints, strengthen their core, do long toss, swim, etc.- basically trying to condition pitchers to physically handle throwing 120+ pitches.
My absolute high limit is a little bit higher than engie- mine is 150 in general- but it depends on the pitcher and their body and their motion as well as how much energy they exert. For whatever it's worth- I remember watching Jared Weaver throw 165 in a Regional for Long Beach State several years ago- he's doing fine now.
I do think that some of the guys that Cohen inherited were hurt from Russ McNickle's tenure.
Injuries to pitchers are going to happen. Look at MLB- I guarantee you that those people know how to handle pitchers. And yet, Tommy John is one of if not the most common injury in the sport. Your body is not meant to throw a ball overhand at 90+ MPH period.
All you can do is manage and condition your pitching staff as well as possible and hope for the best.
The thing is- the new way of thinking is that having guys throw more rather than limiting them- like the Nationals did to Strasburg- is that actually makes pitchers more prone to injury. Nowadays, the new way of thinking is having pitchers run more and run sprints, strengthen their core, do long toss, swim, etc.- basically trying to condition pitchers to physically handle throwing 120+ pitches.
My absolute high limit is a little bit higher than engie- mine is 150 in general- but it depends on the pitcher and their body and their motion as well as how much energy they exert. For whatever it's worth- I remember watching Jared Weaver throw 165 in a Regional for Long Beach State several years ago- he's doing fine now.
a MLB arm is going to have to be able to handle that. For Stratton to get to this level, he is going to have to show he can handle that load (and he has/did).
Is because SEC baseball is about winning. If you have a guy like Stratton and he's over 120 pitches and he's cruising along in a tight game against LSU on the road- but you take him out at that 120 mark and then bring in another pitcher- not Caleb Reed because it's not a save situation and maybe it's a little early for Reed- and then that relief pitcher blows the game- well then you have people complaining that we probably would have won had we not taken Stratton out and we weren't playing to win. You might also have people complaining about us overworking Reed!
As far as me, I want to play to win.
As far as me, I want to play to win.
And for us to recruit well and get those top rated players that Perfect Game likes to MSU- we're going to have show that we can develop guys into MLB prospects.
And guys like Stratton that are showing a positive progression throughout their career- as well as Caleb Reed, Kendall Graveman, Evan Mitchell, etc.- that helps with that.
Our tradition is wonderful and that's a good thing- but even people like Vanderbilt have shown that they can get guys to MLB now. We have to do likewise to build on our tradition.
And guys like Stratton that are showing a positive progression throughout their career- as well as Caleb Reed, Kendall Graveman, Evan Mitchell, etc.- that helps with that.
Our tradition is wonderful and that's a good thing- but even people like Vanderbilt have shown that they can get guys to MLB now. We have to do likewise to build on our tradition.
If he's cruising along and pitching with very little effort, he can throw all night practically. If he's laboring, get him out of there. It's typically when you've not got it going and you're forcing it that you really do some damage.
Just as someone else already stated I am not as concerned about this week as i am the whole season. Additionally health is the main concern but his effectiveness at the end of the season is also a concern. Look I hope I'm wrong. It is just something I pay attention to partly because I'm dad who has a son that pitches. When he started pitching I thought I was being careful with him but looking back I allowed him to do some things that he shouldn't have.
BTW even though I have only recently been posting I have read sp for a while. I recognize that Todd is the most knowledgable baseball guy on here but a 150 pitch limit. Come on man !
BTW even though I have only recently been posting I have read sp for a while. I recognize that Todd is the most knowledgable baseball guy on here but a 150 pitch limit. Come on man !
Pitching coaches, especially those at the D-1 level and up into the professional leagues know exactly what they are doing. Wasn't it Stratton 2 years ago that went over 130 pitches and he was fine against Tennessee? The thing is, they know what signs to look for concerning a pitchers fatigue level, and that USUALLY begins with loss of sharpness and velocity. Stratton is a guy that has a lot of movement on his pitches, and when that starts slipping, it's time to get him out. Even last week, he never lost that. He was still throwing 91-92 well over the 100 pitch count. You are right that you don't want to flirt with that line much (which is why he was pulled last night... you could tell he was beginning to lose his edge a little earlier), but I trust Butch and Cohen know their players enough to know how far Stratton can go and know when to pull him. As aggressive as we play, I highly doubt our coaches are flat out wreckless. I'm not much worried about it.
And pitching- coaches need to be a lot more careful with pitchers that are in youth leagues than you do in college. Young children simply are not mature enough physically to handle high pitch counts. They're still growing and developing. Also, younger pitchers do not have mechanics that are as clean as older pitchers and the coaches are not as well trained in most cases- I know a couple of guys that used to pitch in MLB that coach select teams and they certainly know pitching so I'm not going to put a blanket statement out there.
Most college pitchers are done growing and they have been through training programs like MSU's entire team has been through and then the coaches are also better trained in general
Most college pitchers are done growing and they have been through training programs like MSU's entire team has been through and then the coaches are also better trained in general
that it comes down to body type, leg-strength, and delivery of the pitcher.
You can tell when a pitcher is getting fatigued and needs to come out. All you have to do watch their delivery and the location of the pitch. Is their delivery changing? Are they not finishing their delivery like they were two innings earlier? Is the leg drive toward the plate still there?
Location- is the ball starting to stay up? A tired pitcher wont bend all the way down on his follow thru- thus leaving the ball up more. When this starts happening- your pitcher is tired.
I had a pro prospect pitching for me as a 10th grader. His Dad stuck his nose into what we were doing way too much because he was so sure this kid was going to the bigtime. I had him lifting weights to build his skinny frame (6'4, 160), running after he pitched...he didnt throw alot of breaking balls- FB was 87-88 and he had a great change that had some movement. He helped lead us to the State finals where we lost to a team with a 2nd round draft pick on the mound. But the Dad was livid I let him throw 134 pitches in our final regular season game against our rival. He didnt pitch for another 9 days afterward, so I extended him a little in a big game, and watched him closely in the 6th and 7th.
The Dad decides his boy needed to transfer schools so that the self-proclaimed "pitching guru" can guide his career. This coach didnt make him lift weights at all. The kid goes off pitching all summer and Fall with travel teams, then in his 3rd start of his Jr season at his new school- tendon pops and it's Tommy John time. The kid doesnt know the meaning of hardwork to rehab it because Daddy had always told him he didnt need to lift weights or anything. He pitched in college, but was never the same pitcher- and didnt get drafted.
If kids are in a good program that manages their arms and builds their bodies to help also- then they can go into the 130's. Do you do it every start? Hell no. But it doesnt hurt from time to time in a big game if you make them run, lift, take the anti-inflammatory's necessary to keep them and their arm in top shape
You can tell when a pitcher is getting fatigued and needs to come out. All you have to do watch their delivery and the location of the pitch. Is their delivery changing? Are they not finishing their delivery like they were two innings earlier? Is the leg drive toward the plate still there?
Location- is the ball starting to stay up? A tired pitcher wont bend all the way down on his follow thru- thus leaving the ball up more. When this starts happening- your pitcher is tired.
I had a pro prospect pitching for me as a 10th grader. His Dad stuck his nose into what we were doing way too much because he was so sure this kid was going to the bigtime. I had him lifting weights to build his skinny frame (6'4, 160), running after he pitched...he didnt throw alot of breaking balls- FB was 87-88 and he had a great change that had some movement. He helped lead us to the State finals where we lost to a team with a 2nd round draft pick on the mound. But the Dad was livid I let him throw 134 pitches in our final regular season game against our rival. He didnt pitch for another 9 days afterward, so I extended him a little in a big game, and watched him closely in the 6th and 7th.
The Dad decides his boy needed to transfer schools so that the self-proclaimed "pitching guru" can guide his career. This coach didnt make him lift weights at all. The kid goes off pitching all summer and Fall with travel teams, then in his 3rd start of his Jr season at his new school- tendon pops and it's Tommy John time. The kid doesnt know the meaning of hardwork to rehab it because Daddy had always told him he didnt need to lift weights or anything. He pitched in college, but was never the same pitcher- and didnt get drafted.
If kids are in a good program that manages their arms and builds their bodies to help also- then they can go into the 130's. Do you do it every start? Hell no. But it doesnt hurt from time to time in a big game if you make them run, lift, take the anti-inflammatory's necessary to keep them and their arm in top shape