Topic from Head to Head yesterday...
- Thread starter dawgstudent
- Start date
We knew pretty much what we were getting out of Relf. We were never going to throw it a bunch and our team and offense depended onRelf's ability to get 4 yards with his legs and complete simple passes in the flats. Now, the offense and team will be much more dependent on the decisions and accuracy of Tyler Russell....Higher Risk- but also Higher Reward. I'mhoping he has grown up.
Relf finished 2010 on a freaking tear. Everybody from the MSU sidewalk fan, to the long-suffering season ticket holder, to ESPN was expecting Relf to be a stud in 2011. He'd make miraculous improvements up to the end of 2010 and everyone extrapolated that out to being honorable mention for 2nd team all-SEC or some such in 2011.
This time last year, the wool on Relf was a lot taller than it is on Russell.
This time last year, the wool on Relf was a lot taller than it is on Russell.
but I never thought that the season would depend on his passing skills. Now, the expectation is that we will throw it- this makes it harder on the QB. I expect more out of TR for us to have a good season than I did with Relf.
has Russell won yet? Relf's win over OM in 2009, Gator Bowl, the performance in the loss against Arkansas from 2010 and a few others were the few that had everyone really excited for him in 2011. We all know how that went, but someone please point to the game that should have my expectations higher for Russell in 2012 than the hopes I (and everyone else) had for Relf in 2011.
our receivers are going to have to get loose more. They couldn't get away from coverage at all against bama, lsu, georgia, that I can remember. For sure LSU,There was zerospace to throw it whatsoever. So they need to get bigger, more physical or whatever to get some seperation in the secondary on their routes. Russell can throw the ball with time, and I just hope he has worked to make some better decisions with the ball since last year. he did make some great throws with pressure in his face last year though. I hope he can stay healthy.
Weren't yall down by 3 with Relf starting the first half and Russell coming in in the second half to spark a 21-3 win?
That would have been a terrible loss. Russell looked good in leading yall from behind.
That would have been a terrible loss. Russell looked good in leading yall from behind.
The question isn't do you expect our QB play to be improved this year. It's do you expect more from our QB position this year than you expected last year. Those two questions have very different answers. Last year, it seemed like everyone was ready to make Relf the All-SEC QB. I don't think anyone is expecting that from Russell this year, but most do expect he'll play better than Relf actually did last year.</p>
...I'm probably more high on him as a QB this year than I was with Relf at the start of 2010. But compared to this time last year, no way.
A lot of that is on the QB. You can't stare a guy down, *wait* for him to come open, and then throw it. Instead, a good QB will anticipate his receiver breaking open and throw the ball to where he is going to be. Its all about anticipation and timing.
Whereas Relf wanted a guy to be wide *** open before launching the ball, hopefully Russell will use his head and instincts more.
Whereas Relf wanted a guy to be wide *** open before launching the ball, hopefully Russell will use his head and instincts more.
I expected Relf to do better than he did but some were saying all sec type numbers which was laughable. I'm more excited this year b/c our #1 and 2 qb's have a higher ceiling than last years. Will Russell put up big numbers? Maybe not but if he can put it together I believe he can be much better than Relf
For Tyler to be 'successful' this year will be a combination of factors:
* He has to be the 'leader,' make good reads, & smart decissions. He has the necessary tools & experience. 50% is on him BUT there is another 50% 'beyond' his control ...
* OL has to improve from last year. He could be the 'best' QB in the country BUT if the OL can't give him a few seconds, he will just not be effective. If the OL & RBs can be a 'run' threat, passing game will also benefit.
* Other factors ... our D has to be better rushing the QB; our recievers have to get open and catch the ball; better special teams & couple of 'breaks' will help.
QBs are 'first' judged by their W-L record. Relf finished his career as the #2 most accurate passer in MSU history but will be remembered more fondly for his running & 'total' domination of the bears.
* He has to be the 'leader,' make good reads, & smart decissions. He has the necessary tools & experience. 50% is on him BUT there is another 50% 'beyond' his control ...
* OL has to improve from last year. He could be the 'best' QB in the country BUT if the OL can't give him a few seconds, he will just not be effective. If the OL & RBs can be a 'run' threat, passing game will also benefit.
* Other factors ... our D has to be better rushing the QB; our recievers have to get open and catch the ball; better special teams & couple of 'breaks' will help.
QBs are 'first' judged by their W-L record. Relf finished his career as the #2 most accurate passer in MSU history but will be remembered more fondly for his running & 'total' domination of the bears.
My memory sucks, but I can't remember Russell facing any crappy defenses during his time here, except the UAB game. And like OMBD mentioned, Relf was on track to lose that game for us, until Russell came in and gave our fanbase a unified hard-on.
Do you expect more out of TR as a QB this yearthan you expected out of Relf as a QB last year? My answer is absolutely, because for us to have a good season, TR has be good.To me the whole season depends on what TR does.The last 2 seasons did not depend on Relf completing passes. This year, we will depend on the passing game....to me that's expecting more from yourQB.
I do know that Russell has the ability to hit areceiver on the runthat hashis man beat by ten yards with nothing but green in front of them, he has touch, and he can actually catch a snap and handle it cleanly. I never had high expectations for Relf, he never gave me a reason to think that he was better than any other tight end that wascoached up for a few yearsby Mullen to be a qb(Yes I know that Relf was a HS Option QB). I am ready to see what Mullen can do with some true talent, Russell, Dak, and that sandberg? kid that is committed. Speaking of that 2009 Ole Miss game, his TD pass to Bumphis was not even intended for him and we could have lined up Dixon in the Wildcat and had a field day with UM's D that day(AD is prob more accurate than Relf anyway). Relf did not even do that great of a job running the option, he would never pitch the damn ball to the outside unless it was a predesigned call that he telegraphed for the world to see. He did a good job of running up the middle behind his O-line at times completely due to his size, that was his best and only attribute(that and handing off to Ballard), nothing more.
weakest attempt at a game winning score in MSU history. You have a 50lb plus weight advantage and you get stopped dead in your tracks at the one foot line? No attempt to jump or dive in, no attempt to extend the ball across the goal line, nothing. Pitch the ball to a wide open Ballard for the easy score? Nope. To make it worse, he begged to have his number called for that play, Mullen obliges,then Relf procedes with one of the weakest efforts that I have ever seen for such a clutch play against a team that we had circled on our calendar before the season started. Ballard left his heart on the field andRelf is afraid to dive over or into a 170lb corner......still shocked by that ********. Did you still have big expectations for him after week 2 last year? Week6? It was obvious early on that Relf just doesn't have the tools to be a decent SEC qb.
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Sauron
Guest
However, I do expect more from TYLER. If that makes any sense at all. Here's why:
There is a curse of high school qbs that makes them look beastly throwing the ball when in fact all they are doing is lofting the ball deep and waiting for a receiver to run underneath it. It takes no accuracy to do that, just the ability to throw deep and hope like hell your guy gets to the ball. I have a sneaking suspicion that is what Relf did his hs career. Just because you can throw the ball 80 yards doesn't make you a QB.
Tyler actually has zip and pop when he throws it. He did in high school. He does now. He made plays then, didn't wait for plays to be made around him. He will make plays now.
There is a curse of high school qbs that makes them look beastly throwing the ball when in fact all they are doing is lofting the ball deep and waiting for a receiver to run underneath it. It takes no accuracy to do that, just the ability to throw deep and hope like hell your guy gets to the ball. I have a sneaking suspicion that is what Relf did his hs career. Just because you can throw the ball 80 yards doesn't make you a QB.
Tyler actually has zip and pop when he throws it. He did in high school. He does now. He made plays then, didn't wait for plays to be made around him. He will make plays now.
Relf the last three games of 2010 was playing at a very high level. He started well against Memphis.
Even unrealistic Ole Miss fans admitted that Relf was a damn good QB in the system that Mullen surrounded him with and that most people expected him to have a pretty damn big season. What people didn't expect, or at least it was glossed over, is the OL play in 2011, especially early 2011, opened Relf up to a ton of hits that he simply wasn't taking in 2010. Instead of going against Safeties and corners, he was getting hit be DE's and LB's fairly consistently. The OL wasn't getting a push and their pass protection simply wasn't that good. Even when it got better, Relf started seeing shadows and held on to the ball too long.
Its very similar to what happened to Snead in 2009, you lose your left tackle and all of a sudden you are playing scared the whole season. I think Relf played a little scared, and I also think he was hurt a decent part of the season.
Even unrealistic Ole Miss fans admitted that Relf was a damn good QB in the system that Mullen surrounded him with and that most people expected him to have a pretty damn big season. What people didn't expect, or at least it was glossed over, is the OL play in 2011, especially early 2011, opened Relf up to a ton of hits that he simply wasn't taking in 2010. Instead of going against Safeties and corners, he was getting hit be DE's and LB's fairly consistently. The OL wasn't getting a push and their pass protection simply wasn't that good. Even when it got better, Relf started seeing shadows and held on to the ball too long.
Its very similar to what happened to Snead in 2009, you lose your left tackle and all of a sudden you are playing scared the whole season. I think Relf played a little scared, and I also think he was hurt a decent part of the season.
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Sauron
Guest
Relf tried to cut up, but the o line couldn't get the D linemen blocked, and he had to try and bounce further outside. When he did, AU's guy was waiting on him. But the other half is entirely him. Relf could have pitched. He would have dove. He could have stretched. He did none of those things. Instead, he pussed out and got stopped cold. It pisses you off because we fought to come back in that game after being down two scores. Everyone else WANTED that game so badly it was unreal. That was when the team stopped believing in Chris. You can say they didn't, but they did. Look at the reaction of the WRs when Russell came in at the UAB game. The whole dynamic of the team changed. The O line blocked better. The receivers caught better. Ballard and Perkins ran harder....Repeat Offender said:
vs LSU- combined with Russell also getting hurt was the killer for him in 2011. If Russell doesnt get hurt, Relf could have taken a week off to rest those ribs. But Russell hurt his knee, and Relf had to play with bruised/cracked ribs. And then it was behind an OL with 2 starters missing.
3 games in we had 2 QB's and 2 OL guys hurt. Not the way you want to start a season.
3 games in we had 2 QB's and 2 OL guys hurt. Not the way you want to start a season.
Alot of fans are expecting a UPig type of offense and that just isnt going to happen. All this talk of breaking school records and such could happen- but too many are "expecting" it. We will air it out vs the weaker teams- but you can bet we will remain fairly conservative in big games and rely on our defense. I see Tyler around the 200-215 range per game. If he does that, we will be in good shape.
I worry about turnovers more than anything. That is one thing Relf did well- not to mention eat up clock. Tyler has 13 TD's and 10 picks in his short career, and he is very lucky it's only 10. He improved last year, and hopefully he will be even better at taking care of the ball in 2012.
I think we could be looking at 20 TD's, 12 picks, and about 2400 yards out of him this season before the bowl game. Anything better than that will be gravy
I worry about turnovers more than anything. That is one thing Relf did well- not to mention eat up clock. Tyler has 13 TD's and 10 picks in his short career, and he is very lucky it's only 10. He improved last year, and hopefully he will be even better at taking care of the ball in 2012.
I think we could be looking at 20 TD's, 12 picks, and about 2400 yards out of him this season before the bowl game. Anything better than that will be gravy
I don't think most people here don't remember just how high the expectations of Relf were a year ago. Heck, people were saying if he got a bit better at passing he could have been the second coming of Newton. We set a record for total offense against Memphis to start off the year, and even in the Auburn game he played excellently, and one moment of coming short on the 1 yardline doesn't change that. People were calling him a Heisman contender, even early on in the 2011 season.
While I certainly expect Russell to be better for us than Relf was last year I don't expect him to be good as a people thought Relf would be last year. I know people love to talk crap about Relf, but people were talking about him putting up 200 passing yards and 100 rushing yards a night. Yes, Russell will be a much better passer than Relf, but we by no means are gonna be putting up 250+ passing yards a night, and more than likely our rushing yards will take a step back from last season. Like in the past we are going to be a defensive minded team and our offense isn't going to be the thing that carries us in games. Last year our biggest problem was being able to convert third down.
If we could've given our defense some rest and played better field position without turning the ball over last year we would have beaten South Carolina and Georgia, and at the least, been much closer to beating Alabama and LSU. We lost to Auburn because of our defense giving up 14 points in the first three minutes, and I don't know how if we would've beaten Arkansas, but we certainly wouldn't have had the butt whooping we got.
Our defense may have lost Fletcher, Mitchell, Bonner, and Ferg, but our defensive line is as deep as Alabama or LSU, Whitley(if healthy) is better than Bonner or Mitchell, and Arrington and Love are both fantastic defensive backs. Our linebacker core looks stout and we got 6 or 7 guys who'll be able to rotate in and out. We don't need a 2008 Florida or a 2010 Auburn offense in order to be successful. We just need to not make stupid mistakes and put our defense in bad situations.
While I certainly expect Russell to be better for us than Relf was last year I don't expect him to be good as a people thought Relf would be last year. I know people love to talk crap about Relf, but people were talking about him putting up 200 passing yards and 100 rushing yards a night. Yes, Russell will be a much better passer than Relf, but we by no means are gonna be putting up 250+ passing yards a night, and more than likely our rushing yards will take a step back from last season. Like in the past we are going to be a defensive minded team and our offense isn't going to be the thing that carries us in games. Last year our biggest problem was being able to convert third down.
If we could've given our defense some rest and played better field position without turning the ball over last year we would have beaten South Carolina and Georgia, and at the least, been much closer to beating Alabama and LSU. We lost to Auburn because of our defense giving up 14 points in the first three minutes, and I don't know how if we would've beaten Arkansas, but we certainly wouldn't have had the butt whooping we got.
Our defense may have lost Fletcher, Mitchell, Bonner, and Ferg, but our defensive line is as deep as Alabama or LSU, Whitley(if healthy) is better than Bonner or Mitchell, and Arrington and Love are both fantastic defensive backs. Our linebacker core looks stout and we got 6 or 7 guys who'll be able to rotate in and out. We don't need a 2008 Florida or a 2010 Auburn offense in order to be successful. We just need to not make stupid mistakes and put our defense in bad situations.
It seemed like everybody thought he'd just walk in and take the top job as a true freshman, even though it was obvious from watching him play in HS that he needed to redshirt. He'll be a solid QB for us, but he's probably not going to ever be an elite QB. 2,400 yards with 20 TDs and 12 picks sounds about right if he's healthy all year.</p>
I'm not trying to make excuses for Relf but we don't know the extent of his health last year. There were several times he would limp off the field and I didn't think he could continue and he would. It's quite possible that he was pretty banged up...much more than in 2010.
As for Russell, yes I do expect more out of him and the QB position as a whole. Our OL should be better as well as our receiving corp. I think one of TR's issues is he always had Relf waiting to come back in whenever he screwed up. He should have a much longer leash this fall and knowing you're "the guy" all off season should make some difference in how he plays and prepares.
As for Russell, yes I do expect more out of him and the QB position as a whole. Our OL should be better as well as our receiving corp. I think one of TR's issues is he always had Relf waiting to come back in whenever he screwed up. He should have a much longer leash this fall and knowing you're "the guy" all off season should make some difference in how he plays and prepares.
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Sauron
Guest
We're not gonna look like Arkansas. We aren't gonna be Texas Tech during the Leach years. Mullen will not get too far away from the run. The last three seasons, we have been really skewed toward running the ball. I look for that to change slightly this year and the attack be more balanced, but that's it. The pass won't overtake the run. I think when we need to go up the gut, you'll see Griffin get the rock. When we need to bounce outside or when Mullen wants a wheel route, you'll see Perkins on the other end of it.
But I do think that our passing numbers will get better.
But I do think that our passing numbers will get better.
<div>Some "people" did. It was crazy talk, of course.</div><div>Optimus Prime 4 said:
</div><div>http://sixpackspeak.yuku.com/reply/491830/The-Apocolypse-is-upon-us-Mullen-has-done-the-impossible#reply-491830
</div><div>http://sixpackspeak.yuku.com?topic=70400
</div><div>http://sixpackspeak.yuku.com?topic=71470
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= Solid play from Left Tackle (whoever it is)
= Malcolm Johnson and Joe Morrow baililng out offense a couple of times each
=Josh Robinson or someone being able to run between the tackles and kill some time
=Hopefully improved D that gets +1turnovers and better field position</p>
= Malcolm Johnson and Joe Morrow baililng out offense a couple of times each
=Josh Robinson or someone being able to run between the tackles and kill some time
=Hopefully improved D that gets +1turnovers and better field position</p>
we knew last year it was going to be relf and ballard a lot
relf was expected to throw for 2000 and run for 750
actual stats: 497 rushing yards 1212 throwing yards
this year while we expect lot from Russell ...there is more expectation on the parts around him
we expect russell to gain more than 2750 total yards, but most of that will come from what other athletes do after they catch the ball.
chris leak 2006: 2950 throwing yards
750 rushing yards > 750 passing yards
relf was expected to throw for 2000 and run for 750
actual stats: 497 rushing yards 1212 throwing yards
this year while we expect lot from Russell ...there is more expectation on the parts around him
we expect russell to gain more than 2750 total yards, but most of that will come from what other athletes do after they catch the ball.
chris leak 2006: 2950 throwing yards
750 rushing yards > 750 passing yards
my apologies. And think about it. We've got Boyd, Autry, P.J. Jones, Virges, Kaleb Eulls, McCardell, Harris, Quay Evans will probably start before the year is over, and at the least will rotate in. Our 2nd team D-Line could start most places in the country.Optimus Prime 4 said: