Tough conversation: is Allar good enough?

Marshall2323

All-Conference
Aug 7, 2024
1,512
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IMHO the 2017 and 2018 losses to OSU where we snatched defeat from the jaws of victory were the turning point. We win 3 straight (and let's admit that 2016 took an amazing but fluke play to win) vs OSU and EVERYTHING changes regarding recruiting, mystique, mind set etc.

Add in the inexplicable hangover losses to MSU the weeks following those losses and the narrative turned from "we're back" to "we caught lightning in a bottle in a magical 2016".

It was RIGHT there for us to control our own destiny and it got away from us and the gap widened with OSU.
If "ifs and buts" were candies and nuts.....everyday would be Christmas.
 
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Marshall2323

All-Conference
Aug 7, 2024
1,512
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IMHO the 2017 and 2018 losses to OSU where we snatched defeat from the jaws of victory were the turning point. We win 3 straight (and let's admit that 2016 took an amazing but fluke play to win) vs OSU and EVERYTHING changes regarding recruiting, mystique, mind set etc.

Add in the inexplicable hangover losses to MSU the weeks following those losses and the narrative turned from "we're back" to "we caught lightning in a bottle in a magical 2016".

It was RIGHT there for us to control our own destiny and it got away from us and the gap widened with OSU.
Perhaps the loss to MSU was just a "fluke," like the victory over OSU?
 

rigi19040

Sophomore
Aug 1, 2024
261
153
43
So he never beats OSU, okay one-time ten years ago, you're okay with that? So are you okay losing to OSU for the next 20 years, 30 years, forever? Michigan has beaten them 3 years in a row. Georgia has beaten them, Clemson, Oregon, Alabama. They are not invincible but apparently you think no one can ever beat them hence the excuses for Franklin.


Which coaches beat OSU? Give us the list. If you replace Franklin make sure the new coach has a winning record vs OSU.

The next coach will win less than Franklin.
 
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PSUForever

Senior
Feb 17, 2007
543
448
63
Which coaches beat OSU? Give us the list. If you replace Franklin make sure the new coach has a winning record vs OSU.

The next coach will win less than Franklin.
I am not calling to have him replaced. It is not my job to come up with successors to Franklin. Read my posts I never say he needs to be replaced. If he continues to lose big games at this torrid pace though, he will be replaced once the buyout drops to around $20 million.
 

rigi19040

Sophomore
Aug 1, 2024
261
153
43
I am not calling to have him replaced. It is not my job to come up with successors to Franklin. Read my posts I never say he needs to be replaced. If he continues to lose big games at this torrid pace though, he will be replaced once the buyout drops to around $20 million.
You dont count the big games that the team wins. Playoff games were big games. The coaches you want dont even get to big games.
 

PSUaddict

Redshirt
Jun 27, 2023
50
45
18
Answer: We are about to find out. Oregon WILL give him every chance to win the game! Thats a fact!
 

PSUaddict

Redshirt
Jun 27, 2023
50
45
18
Also Ill leave this one here...

Franklin is 14-2 in night home games. 14-2 against the spread in night home games. Pretty good right? Both of those losses were to Ohio State with much more talented teams than Oregon and less talented teams for Penn State. Oh yeah...he is undefeated in night home games when PSU is the favorite. The power of the Beav at night cannot be overstated!
 
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Moogy

All-Conference
Jul 28, 2017
3,010
2,045
113
I made 4 calls. Nothing crickets
Your crack dealer doesn't count.

You've already established you're fine with child molestation if it gets you a good football team. Don't troll your way to more embarrassment in a futile effort to seem "cool."
 

BostonNit

All-Conference
Mar 15, 2003
994
1,973
93
Back to Allar... How do we get more of the Drew that threaded a needle for a TD against Oregon with a guy draped all over him, and less of the Drew that threw a sloppy pick against a 1-AA team on a simple swing pass to a RB?

Play calling? More reps? Sports psychologist? Etc.?
 

OptionBob

Senior
Oct 12, 2021
201
540
93
IMHO the 2017 and 2018 losses to OSU where we snatched defeat from the jaws of victory were the turning point. We win 3 straight (and let's admit that 2016 took an amazing but fluke play to win) vs OSU and EVERYTHING changes regarding recruiting, mystique, mind set etc.

Add in the inexplicable hangover losses to MSU the weeks following those losses and the narrative turned from "we're back" to "we caught lightning in a bottle in a magical 2016".

It was RIGHT there for us to control our own destiny and it got away from us and the gap widened with OSU.
I agree with almost everything you say (and your points are excellent) EXCEPT ...

This continuing idea that Penn State beat OSU in 2016 on a "fluke play" is as mythical and as nonsensical as the continued story of Penn State running "4 strau=ight times from the 1 yard line" in the 1979 Sugar Bowl.

Why do so many Penn State fans forget that Ohio State ALSO blocked a FG attempt in that same game, and the Buckeyes even were gifted an unforced fumble on a punt. Yet I would wager no one would have called an OSU win that day as "lucky" or attributed to a "fluke play."

I remember Frank Beamer's Va Tech teams praised lavishly for their Special Teams. The narrative was not that the Hokies won on "fluke plays" but rather on well-coached, player-driven great plays.

However, let Penn State players like Marcus Allen and Grant Haley (neither a 5-star prep All American) make great plays, and even some Penn State fans label the win a "fluke."

Penn State won that game by playing stout defense and making great plays when it counted. You know, like intercepting a Heisman-winning QB 5 times. Not flukes ... just well coached players making great plays.

You know what might be a fluke win though? The 2014 OSU win in OT over outmanned Penn State still short players from ridiculous sanctions. That Buckeye win , at least IMO, is tainted by John O'Neill and crew's (1) not overturning an incomplete pass called as an interception and (2) allowing a Buckeye FG attempt to go on 4 seconds after the play clock had expired. Those 10 points allowed OSU to take the game into OT.
 

BostonNit

All-Conference
Mar 15, 2003
994
1,973
93
I agree with almost everything you say (and your points are excellent) EXCEPT ...

This continuing idea that Penn State beat OSU in 2016 on a "fluke play" is as mythical and as nonsensical as the continued story of Penn State running "4 strau=ight times from the 1 yard line" in the 1979 Sugar Bowl.

Why do so many Penn State fans forget that Ohio State ALSO blocked a FG attempt in that same game, and the Buckeyes even were gifted an unforced fumble on a punt. Yet I would wager no one would have called an OSU win that day as "lucky" or attributed to a "fluke play."

I remember Frank Beamer's Va Tech teams praised lavishly for their Special Teams. The narrative was not that the Hokies won on "fluke plays" but rather on well-coached, player-driven great plays.

However, let Penn State players like Marcus Allen and Grant Haley (neither a 5-star prep All American) make great plays, and even some Penn State fans label the win a "fluke."

Penn State won that game by playing stout defense and making great plays when it counted. You know, like intercepting a Heisman-winning QB 5 times. Not flukes ... just well coached players making great plays.

You know what might be a fluke win though? The 2014 OSU win in OT over outmanned Penn State still short players from ridiculous sanctions. That Buckeye win , at least IMO, is tainted by John O'Neill and crew's (1) not overturning an incomplete pass called as an interception and (2) allowing a Buckeye FG attempt to go on 4 seconds after the play clock had expired. Those 10 points allowed OSU to take the game into OT.
It's all in the way things played out but just before the blocked field goal one of our defensive backs dropped a sure int around the five yard line I believe it was. If he actually makes that INT odds were probably stacked that we weren't going to drive 90 plus yards for a go-ahead touchdown. So there certainly is a degree of luck involved. But I will agree that almost everything that game broke osu's way except blocked field goal. One other note... I believe their punter was about the fastest punter I've ever seen and almost ran down Grant Haley.
 
Sep 10, 2013
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So 90 blocking LA s 25 yard FG with 2 seconds left was good coaching, not fluke? Got it. signed I’m a Super Bowl champion in DE
 

porcupine

All-Conference
Nov 10, 2003
20,022
4,586
113
IMHO the 2017 and 2018 losses to OSU where we snatched defeat from the jaws of victory were the turning point. We win 3 straight (and let's admit that 2016 took an amazing but fluke play to win) vs OSU and EVERYTHING changes regarding recruiting, mystique, mind set etc.

Add in the inexplicable hangover losses to MSU the weeks following those losses and the narrative turned from "we're back" to "we caught lightning in a bottle in a magical 2016".

It was RIGHT there for us to control our own destiny and it got away from us and the gap widened with OSU.
2016 was not a gift. penn state dominated the line of scrimmage that night. 6 sacks in the second half show that. penn state was the better team, albeit the far far lesser talented team.

dare i say that james franklin's staff outcoached urban meyer's staff?

dear god.

penn state is the favorite, oregon is the more talented roster top to bottom. at a neutral site, oregon would be favored. it's 3.5 because of the whiteout and beaver stadium.
 
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WaffleShopper

Junior
Sep 20, 2023
131
205
43
I am not calling to have him replaced. It is not my job to come up with successors to Franklin. Read my posts I never say he needs to be replaced. If he continues to lose big games at this torrid pace though, he will be replaced once the buyout drops to around $20 million.
If you say anything remotely negative about Franklin or even just show his records some people here will jump down your throat and label you a Franklin-hater, racist, baldist, etc.

It is possible for someone to criticize Franklin and still think he should keep his job.
 
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WaffleShopper

Junior
Sep 20, 2023
131
205
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Back to Allar... How do we get more of the Drew that threaded a needle for a TD against Oregon with a guy draped all over him, and less of the Drew that threw a sloppy pick against a 1-AA team on a simple swing pass to a RB?

Play calling? More reps? Sports psychologist? Etc.?
Sadly we might have to get behind early for that first Drew to show up.
 

12bflying

Redshirt
Oct 2, 2006
10
8
3
Back to Allar... How do we get more of the Drew that threaded a needle for a TD against Oregon with a guy draped all over him, and less of the Drew that threw a sloppy pick against a 1-AA team on a simple swing pass to a RB?

Play calling? More reps? Sports psychologist? Etc.?
Put him on the move. Since he spent the summer getting quicker, maybe he'll concentrate on running and allow his passing brain to relax.
 

PSUForever

Senior
Feb 17, 2007
543
448
63
You dont count the big games that the team wins. Playoff games were big games. The coaches you want dont even get to big games.
Those playoff games were against teams with significantly less talent so very questionable if they qualify as a big game. If you want then those games can be counted as big games but we still lost 3 others so last year was 2-3 in big games with the obligatory loss to OSU and the come from ahead loss to ND. Feel better?

I don't want any coach now. Just telling you Franklin better figure out how to win more big games or he will be gone as soon as his buyout becomes reasonable.
 

rigi19040

Sophomore
Aug 1, 2024
261
153
43
Those playoff games were against teams with significantly less talent so very questionable if they qualify as a big game. If you want then those games can be counted as big games but we still lost 3 others so last year was 2-3 in big games with the obligatory loss to OSU and the come from ahead loss to ND. Feel better?

I don't want any coach now. Just telling you Franklin better figure out how to win more big games or he will be gone as soon as his buyout becomes reasonable.
Psu has less talent than OSU. Psu was the underdog in most of the ranked losses.

If you expect to win when psu has more talent then what would you expect when psu has less talent?
 

BostonNit

All-Conference
Mar 15, 2003
994
1,973
93
2016 was not a gift. penn state dominated the line of scrimmage that night. 6 sacks in the second half show that. penn state was the better team, albeit the far far lesser talented team.

dare i say that james franklin's staff outcoached urban meyer's staff?

dear god.

penn state is the favorite, oregon is the more talented roster top to bottom. at a neutral site, oregon would be favored. it's 3.5 because of the whiteout and beaver stadium.
Was an amazing game... was there. One of my top 3 PSU game experiences, but we were outgained 413-276 and only had 13 first downs, so I wouldn't say that we dominated the LOS. The 2nd half sacks were huge though. After we had the lead Pry turned up the pressure and we had Sickels back who sat out the first half.

If you remember the game, things were bleak, then we got a late score in first half to give us hope. The rest is history.
 
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porcupine

All-Conference
Nov 10, 2003
20,022
4,586
113
Was an amazing game... was there. One of my top 3 PSU game experiences, but we were outgained 413-276 and only had 13 first downs, so I wouldn't say that we dominated the LOS. The 2nd half sacks were huge though. After we had the lead Pry turned up the pressure and we had Sickels back who sat out the first half.

If you remember the game, things were bleak, then we got a late score in first half to give us hope. The rest is history.
yep. we got outgained. but maybe u am not remembering clearly but i thought we more or less outside of 1 play shut them out in the second half and made their offense pedestrian.
 

Nits1989

All-Conference
Oct 29, 2021
950
1,288
93
Psu has less talent than OSU. Psu was the underdog in most of the ranked losses.

If you expect to win when psu has more talent then what would you expect when psu has less talent?
What about player development? Some services re-ranked recruiting classes 4 years or so later and PSU’s rank went up a lot. I think that happened to the 2014 class.
 

dcf4psu

All-Conference
Nov 7, 2003
839
1,020
93
It's the biggest game of his career to date tonight against Oregon. Same with Coach Franklin.
 
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KingLando

Senior
Nov 29, 2021
1,249
704
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It's the biggest game of his career to date tonight against Oregon. Same with Coach Franklin.
It's a regular season game that's most likely for seeding. It wasn't close to as important as any of the 3 playoff games last year.
 

Nitt1300

Heisman
Nov 2, 2008
6,056
11,288
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