We are all MSU fans and want our team to succeed, however, many on this board feel that Stansbury will never achieve up to his teams' talent level. That being said, out of concern for the program I ask this question. If you were told that we are going to go 9-7 in conference, make the tourney as a 9 seed, lose the first weekend, but Stansbury keeps his job for at least 3 more years for making the tourney....OR if we don't make the tourney Stansbury will be fired......what would you rather have happen? Would you rather us lose, not make the dance, and get a new coach..or win, make the dance, early exit, keep Stans?
Tough question regarding The Recruiter
- Thread starter CadaverDawg
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We are all MSU fans and want our team to succeed, however, many on this board feel that Stansbury will never achieve up to his teams' talent level. That being said, out of concern for the program I ask this question. If you were told that we are going to go 9-7 in conference, make the tourney as a 9 seed, lose the first weekend, but Stansbury keeps his job for at least 3 more years for making the tourney....OR if we don't make the tourney Stansbury will be fired......what would you rather have happen? Would you rather us lose, not make the dance, and get a new coach..or win, make the dance, early exit, keep Stans?
We are all MSU fans and want our team to succeed, however, many on this board feel that Stansbury will never achieve up to his teams' talent level. That being said, out of concern for the program I ask this question. If you were told that we are going to go 9-7 in conference, make the tourney as a 9 seed, lose the first weekend, but Stansbury keeps his job for at least 3 more years for making the tourney....OR if we don't make the tourney Stansbury will be fired......what would you rather have happen? Would you rather us lose, not make the dance, and get a new coach..or win, make the dance, early exit, keep Stans?
We are all MSU fans and want our team to succeed, however, many on this board feel that Stansbury will never achieve up to his teams' talent level. That being said, out of concern for the program I ask this question. If you were told that we are going to go 9-7 in conference, make the tourney as a 9 seed, lose the first weekend, but Stansbury keeps his job for at least 3 more years for making the tourney....OR if we don't make the tourney Stansbury will be fired......what would you rather have happen? Would you rather us lose, not make the dance, and get a new coach..or win, make the dance, early exit, keep Stans?
you want to continue the mediocrity or roll the dice and try to take the next step.
There are people on here that will baste you for even thinking that losing now helps us in the long run... but Stansbury has brought many of us to the point where'd we trade one bad year for a chance to turnovera new leaf.
There are people on here that will baste you for even thinking that losing now helps us in the long run... but Stansbury has brought many of us to the point where'd we trade one bad year for a chance to turnovera new leaf.
I would rather us win now bc I don't know that we could get a coach that could get us better results. I figured Arkansas could get a good coach too, but Stan Heath and John Pelphrey would say otherwise. The grass isn't always greener. I am just curious to see how many are on each side of this.
but I have much more faith in our current leadership than in the LT regime. I think they'd get us another young, energetic, up-and-comer... Mullen and Stuedemann both fit that bill.
The Agendaist
Seriously?
If we tailspin out the rest of the season and miss the NCAA I think it will be over.
Seriously?
If we tailspin out the rest of the season and miss the NCAA I think it will be over.
We automatically think that because a coach does something- win a bowl, go to a regional, go to the Big Dance, etc. that that automatically makes a coach at MSU untouchable unless they pull a Sandusky.
I hope we don't really operate like that as an athletic dept. now. I think we did at one time- but not now.
I think we should evaluate our teams every year and then make the best decision based on how things are overall. If we underachieve this year, Rick should be fired whether we make the Big Dance or not. I don't give a crap what other people think about us like Jay Balis or whoever is on ESPN. I think a lot of people on the outside see us as a loose program right now- they've seen the Renardo/Elgin fight, they see the talent that we do have, and they see it being a 9 seed when it should be a 3 or 4. Personally, if we fire him, I don't think anyone on ESPN will say much about it- and if they do, I bet they mention the things that I just did.
The Hump is dead right now. There is no excitement there. Our team looks undisciplined and disorganized. We've already lost 40% of our class from last year. We're not recruiting good players in terms of character in general either. The S&C program is a joke with the basketball team.
The only solution I see rigth now is firing Stansbury. I'm all for it. I'm all in. I would totally have Scott's back on it too.
I hope we don't really operate like that as an athletic dept. now. I think we did at one time- but not now.
I think we should evaluate our teams every year and then make the best decision based on how things are overall. If we underachieve this year, Rick should be fired whether we make the Big Dance or not. I don't give a crap what other people think about us like Jay Balis or whoever is on ESPN. I think a lot of people on the outside see us as a loose program right now- they've seen the Renardo/Elgin fight, they see the talent that we do have, and they see it being a 9 seed when it should be a 3 or 4. Personally, if we fire him, I don't think anyone on ESPN will say much about it- and if they do, I bet they mention the things that I just did.
The Hump is dead right now. There is no excitement there. Our team looks undisciplined and disorganized. We've already lost 40% of our class from last year. We're not recruiting good players in terms of character in general either. The S&C program is a joke with the basketball team.
The only solution I see rigth now is firing Stansbury. I'm all for it. I'm all in. I would totally have Scott's back on it too.
How many blunders can the KNOWLEDGEABLE fan base tolerate? Is he the only guy on the planet that can get quality recruits to MSU?
Think about Arkansas and how 10+ years after firing Richardson they still are nowhere near as good as when he was there. I know it's a different situation, but there are some similarities. Basically, is it worth 10-15 years of losing in order to have a chance to win at a higher level? It may not happen that way, but it could. I would rather take my chances with Rick until he gets bad at the one thing he has always been good at, recruiting. His coaching ability isn't why he has this job anyway, it's the recruiting.
and the impression that star players are in charge make his leadership suspect. Is he going to start mailing in coaching performances??? He's never been regarded as an xx's and oo's guy. But, unlike Croom, he never appeared to be in over his head.
He has a track record of success in the SEC that's pretty impressive. Could we get a better coach? Sure. Could we do much worse? Of course, and that's the dilemma. We seem to regularly have decent teams under him, but he's developed a terrible habit of underwhelming us with talent lately. Kind of conflicted because I think he's a little above average as a coach but it appears that even he thinks this is a make or break year.
He has a track record of success in the SEC that's pretty impressive. Could we get a better coach? Sure. Could we do much worse? Of course, and that's the dilemma. We seem to regularly have decent teams under him, but he's developed a terrible habit of underwhelming us with talent lately. Kind of conflicted because I think he's a little above average as a coach but it appears that even he thinks this is a make or break year.
Todd4State said:
I don't agree with us recruiting players in terms of character. I think the players we are getting are the same that every other school it getting. Same character, same attitude.
The difference is that instead of us having a coach that demands respect and discipline from his players, he lets them walk all over him and the school.
He has zero respect from his players. This has been talked about for years and has become more evident with the introduction of twitter. The first thing that stans should have done is shut down his players being on damn twitter. How many times have they made themselves, their coach, and the school look like **** by posting stupid **** on twitter?
He lets the inmates run the asylum and he has no way of getting control back short of kicking numerous kids off the team.
These guys are kids, they need a coach that demands respect and discipline.
Stans has many many problems but this is one of the biggest that I have with him. I think with discipline comes a better work ethic and I think that would solve a lot of our problems. Not all of them but it is a hell of a start.
CadaverDawg said:
We aren't even close to being Arkansas. They have national championships, multiple final fours, 3x as many conference titles...our program doesn't even approach them historically. They fired Richardson and brought in Hearh to clean up a mess- Heath had started winning again when they fired him. So they add more turmoil to an unstable situation and bring in Pelphrey. He has to start over recruiting after his 1st season due to Sr's leaving and another starter flunking out. Pel lost all 5 starters after his 1st season. It takes him a couple of years to stabilize it- and he pulls in a top 5 inthe nation recruiting class- and they fire him. Our situation compared to Arkansas is like night and day
I'd prefer we make the tournament AND get a new coach. The fear of failure will always guarantee failure. Even if we have worse seasons under the new coach initially we will be making the strides towards what we ultimately all really want. A National Championship. Those don't come easy. Waiting to make the next step because we are afraid to fall on our face is a losers mentality. We all know it has to be done because Stansbury simply doesn't have it. That doesn't mean he's a bad coach. He's an above average coach that built MSU upto the point it is today. Problem is he can't build it anymore. I'm grateful for all he has done. It's time to let the next man build the final steps so we can all stand on the top where we all really want to be. Go Dawgs!
Coach34 said:
We are nowhere near Arkansas yet it's still taking them 15 years to even sniff Our level of play. Is that not a little concerning to you? Not even a little? I'm not saying I'm right or you're right, I just think it's a super risky move to can our best coach ever, especially when as of today he's got us ranked. We won't be tomorrow. I just don't want us to can him and then regret it as we watch our Bball program become Auburns for the next 15 years. And don't say it can't happen. Many of us thought Heath, Pelphrey, Grant, etc were good hires and so far...nothing out of them. Nobody sets out to hire a ****** coach, but that doesn't mean it can't happen.
History shows that it's more likely to happen than not. Especially in SEC basketball. There's a reason men's basketball is one of the few sports the SEC doesn't dominate in. And it's not because the SEC somehow decided that men's basketball would be the one sport it didn't really care about.CadaverDawg said:
Grant has improved Bama each year he has been there. Secondly, hiring a new coach is always a risk. We can post many examples of it working out great, and not so great. But one thing we know for sure- we are as good year in and year out as we ever will be under The Recruiter. If we don't make the NCAA Tourney- that makes only 2 times in 7 years- and it's time for him to go. We can do better than that. If we Dance- he returns.
much of our fanbase, including the students, are getting tired of watching Bury Ball. That means less butts in the seats and ultimately less success for the bball program overall.<div>
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Don't just pick out Grant's minimal success and ignore the others. There are way more failures than successes, and I'm not so sure we're as good as we can be under Stans. Is there any possibility that Strick can sit down with Stan's and tell him that we need more fan and student interaction, as well as an assistant to work on play calling since it seems to be lacking a little? I mean, that is Stricklins job to give constructive criticism and demand improvement right? Not just fire them if they don't go from good to great. I think with a few simple changes, Stansbury could take us to the next level....but he's not going to do it unless he is forced to. He's an old dog that has been doing it his way for a while. I just think firing a successful coach should be a last resort. Maybe not though.
And even I am sick of it...there just as many successes in coaching changes as there are failures. If we miss the NCAA Tourney again this year, with the talent this team has, only an idiot wouldn't want a coaching change. And that would make only 2 NCAA's in the last 7 seasons. We can do better than that. Hell, Heath and Pelphrey did better than that and got fired
Just sayin. I would love to compile a list of successes vs failures after replacing a long tenured coach. I would have to disagree that it's an equal number.
patdog said:
That's really weak- even from you
Grants has been a head coach the last 5 years- has 2 NCAA's...The Recruiter has 2 NCAA's in the same time span...What makes The Recruiter better than Grant? At least Grant made the NIT title ame- The Recruiter couldn't even do that
let's look at all the SEC hires since Stans and compare them to Stans
Bama - Gottfried - equal, Grant - worse
Auburn - Lebo - worse, Barbee - worse
Arkansas - Heath - equal, Pelphrey - equal, Anderson - too early to tell
Mississippi - Barnes - worse, Kennedy - worse
LSU - Brady - worse, Johnson - worse
Kentucky - Gillsepie - worse, Calipari - better
Tennessee - Peterson - worse, Pearl - better, Martin- too early to tell
Vandy - Stallings - equal
USC - Odom - worse, Horne - worse
UGA - Harrick - worse, Felton - worse, Fox - worse
Florida - Donovan - better
Final tally: Better - 3, Equal - 4, Worse - 14. But yeah, there are just as many success stories as failures in coaching hires. Just ask Coach34. Never mind the facts, if he says it, it must be true.
Bama - Gottfried - equal, Grant - worse
Auburn - Lebo - worse, Barbee - worse
Arkansas - Heath - equal, Pelphrey - equal, Anderson - too early to tell
Mississippi - Barnes - worse, Kennedy - worse
LSU - Brady - worse, Johnson - worse
Kentucky - Gillsepie - worse, Calipari - better
Tennessee - Peterson - worse, Pearl - better, Martin- too early to tell
Vandy - Stallings - equal
USC - Odom - worse, Horne - worse
UGA - Harrick - worse, Felton - worse, Fox - worse
Florida - Donovan - better
Final tally: Better - 3, Equal - 4, Worse - 14. But yeah, there are just as many success stories as failures in coaching hires. Just ask Coach34. Never mind the facts, if he says it, it must be true.
And I don't know if you can say Grant is worse yet, but as of now he is. Other than that, you helped show what I was talking about. We could easily go from 3rd in the Sec to a bottom dweller just by getting rid of him. We could also make a sweet 16 or final four with a new coach. Weighing the odds though....becoming worse is much more likely to happen, hence my hesitation. But, I understand the arguments for it just disagree with them. To each his own.