Tough question regarding The Recruiter
- Thread starter CadaverDawg
- Start date
patdog said:
What exactly has The Recruiter done in the last 5 years that Grant hasn't? Hell Grant is 134-59 as a head coach...3 conf titles, 1 West title...2 NCAA bids..The Recruiter hasn't done any better than that the last 5 seasons
And your list is terrible- Brady had 2 SEC titles, and more Tourney success than The Recruiter...Fox has a tourney appearance in just 2 seasons Georgia, and then Grant..Wow
but I'm fine if anyone wants to move him into the better column. Doesn't change my point. As for Grant, you might could move him into the too early to tell column, but in 5 years as a head coach, he's 1-2 in the NCAA tournament and he's got a bubble team at best this year (and that's if the suspensions are lifted tomorrow).
1998-current(Stans Tenure)
Kentucky has 8 sweet 16s, 6 elite 8s, 2 final 4s, one championship(13 tourney appearances)
Florida has 5 sweet 16s, 4 elite 8s, 3 final 4s, two championships(11 tourney appearances)
Tennessee has 4 sweet 16s, 1 elite 8(10 tourney appearances)
LSU has 2 sweet 16s, 1 elite 8, 1 final 4(5 tourney appearances)
Vanderbilt has 2 sweet 16s(5 tourney appearances)
Auburn has 2 sweet 16s(3 tourney appearances)
Ole Miss has 1 sweet 16(4 tourney appearances)
Alabama has 1 sweet 16, 1 elite 8(5 tourney appearances)
Now the 0fers
Arkansas has 7 tourney appearances
Mississippi State has 6 tourney appearances
Georgia has 4 tourney appearances
South Carolina has 2 tourney appearances
Granted, this metric is one of Stans worst...and doesn't present a total picture of success level...
Kentucky has 8 sweet 16s, 6 elite 8s, 2 final 4s, one championship(13 tourney appearances)
Florida has 5 sweet 16s, 4 elite 8s, 3 final 4s, two championships(11 tourney appearances)
Tennessee has 4 sweet 16s, 1 elite 8(10 tourney appearances)
LSU has 2 sweet 16s, 1 elite 8, 1 final 4(5 tourney appearances)
Vanderbilt has 2 sweet 16s(5 tourney appearances)
Auburn has 2 sweet 16s(3 tourney appearances)
Ole Miss has 1 sweet 16(4 tourney appearances)
Alabama has 1 sweet 16, 1 elite 8(5 tourney appearances)
Now the 0fers
Arkansas has 7 tourney appearances
Mississippi State has 6 tourney appearances
Georgia has 4 tourney appearances
South Carolina has 2 tourney appearances
Granted, this metric is one of Stans worst...and doesn't present a total picture of success level...
Once aGAIN, what evidence do you have in the last 14 years that suggests Stans is willing to change? He was put on notice by The Grasshopper after last season. And what did he do? Let Kirby leave for Georgetown and replace him by promoting Marcus Grant. I think it's very fair to say at this point, Stans is who he is and always will be as a coach. He isn't confident enough to hire a real Xs & Os assistant, probably for fear of that guy getting all the credit. Rick would rather recruit, let the inmates run the asylum, and hope for the best. He caught lighting in a bottle from '03-'05 and got a lot of help when Power & Roberts transferred. 5 years ago, I might have agreed with this argument, but not now. Stans is set in his ways and isn't going to change. We really only have 2 choices: Live with the same old crap year after year or fire him and take the chance to improve. As for me, I'm firmly in the improvement camp.CadaverDawg said:
You are asking our fans to make a decision that they can, in no way, win from. <div>
</div><div>If we make the tourney, like all MSU fans want, we are in the Big Dance. A chance to win it all.That's always a positive. However, that would mean that our current coach would keep his warm seat for a little longer. He has made almost all the basketball history that we have here at MSU, but he continues to underachieve with the talent he is recruiting. He is a fantastic recruiter and has made MSU basketball what it is. But he lacks that ability to fire up his team, to create leaders that hold others accountable, to win close games by playing smart basketball. So we'll deal with that.</div><div>
</div><div>If any of our fans wish for our dawgs to miss the tourney, no matter how positive they think their intentions are, they are not a true fan and only bring down the rest of us.</div><div>Our teams are like our nation's military - regardless if you believe in the cause, they still need our support. Remember, they go out there for us. They [the basketball team] put it all on the line...well most of it on the line every game and the last thing they need arepeople that are hoping for their demise just because the coach can't seem to coach up his teams. </div><div>
</div><div>Things will happen as the may. If Stansbury stays, which I doubt, it will be much more of the same. If he goes, there will be an intense coaching search for an unproven small time coach - assistant or hc at a small school - that will have a hard time adjusting and may come around eventually but is still unproven and may Crxxm us. </div>
</div><div>If we make the tourney, like all MSU fans want, we are in the Big Dance. A chance to win it all.That's always a positive. However, that would mean that our current coach would keep his warm seat for a little longer. He has made almost all the basketball history that we have here at MSU, but he continues to underachieve with the talent he is recruiting. He is a fantastic recruiter and has made MSU basketball what it is. But he lacks that ability to fire up his team, to create leaders that hold others accountable, to win close games by playing smart basketball. So we'll deal with that.</div><div>
</div><div>If any of our fans wish for our dawgs to miss the tourney, no matter how positive they think their intentions are, they are not a true fan and only bring down the rest of us.</div><div>Our teams are like our nation's military - regardless if you believe in the cause, they still need our support. Remember, they go out there for us. They [the basketball team] put it all on the line...well most of it on the line every game and the last thing they need arepeople that are hoping for their demise just because the coach can't seem to coach up his teams. </div><div>
</div><div>Things will happen as the may. If Stansbury stays, which I doubt, it will be much more of the same. If he goes, there will be an intense coaching search for an unproven small time coach - assistant or hc at a small school - that will have a hard time adjusting and may come around eventually but is still unproven and may Crxxm us. </div>
games in person, I will say the rumors of the death of the Hump are greatly exaggerated. It wasn't as deafening as it could've been Saturday, but it got loud quite a few times, and many of them were fan led.
The attendance was disappointing, but if I run my usual spreadsheet, I bet it shows we're about where we've been since reseating started.
The attendance was disappointing, but if I run my usual spreadsheet, I bet it shows we're about where we've been since reseating started.
The coach that got them to the sweet sixteen on three occasionsand ranked number 4 at one time...They have not been compettitive since..Ellis got them to NCAA every three years( not good enough) and they wanted to move to a different level..They did..the basement and cannot get out.
Stans brings talent to MSU and a competitive team. I do not want to move to the basement. I remember State in the terrible basketball years of basement dwelling in SEC basketball..
Stans brings talent to MSU and a competitive team. I do not want to move to the basement. I remember State in the terrible basketball years of basement dwelling in SEC basketball..
Auburn also now has the brand new fancy basketball arena and probably nobody goes to the games anymore.<div>
</div><div>I'm pretty happy with Stan's program.</div>
</div><div>I'm pretty happy with Stan's program.</div>
RocketDawg said:
Sorry dude, winning seasons, western division titles and such are mediocre in today's world.
I would say Auburn's home play and the environment has been one of the surprises in the SEC.
Kentucky 9,121
UM 7,154
South Carolina 8,329
UGA 6,501
Bama 8,154
Kentucky 9,121
UM 7,154
South Carolina 8,329
UGA 6,501
Bama 8,154
You are also totally wrong about Kirby. He left because he saw that was his only way to maybe get a head coaching job. Ask Kirby now how smart that was and he will tell you it was a mistake. Thompson doesn't even have him sitting near him during a game and Robert found out the small raise was eaten up by the cost of living in the D.C. area. Your statemnt about Powers and Roberts is absurd too, Stans convinced them to come to MSU and no one else did. The sameholds true for Moultrie. You fools keep harping about discipline when anyone knows he has sat some people this year for disciplinary reasons just like he did with Charles Rhodes and Charles responded. As far as Xs &0s, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that our offense has not been our problem. It is the defensive side and rebounding. I don't think our staff just suddenly forgot how to coach defense and rebounding. Patdog made some valid arguments and nobody is happy when we lose a game we should have won, but I am totally amazed how it is always a coaches fault when that happens. Maybe coach can go get one of the numerous names he has suggested in the past but his only criteria is to get to the sweet sixteen. After we get to the sweet sixteen, it will be we should have been to the Final Four. It will never end and people with any sense can see it.War Machine Dawg said:
missouridawg said:
That's exactly what Arkansas thought when they brought in John Pelphrey. He was the 'brightest,' young, energetic, up and comer there was out there. He had the Kentucky pedigree; he had that 'IT' factor ... he failed and he failed miserably.
Anybody think we are a 'better' basketball school than Arkansas? Think we have a bigger arena ... better fans? Since Nolen won the NC, they have been through Stan Heath (another, can't miss coach), Pelphrey, and now Mike Anderson (another, can't miss coach). In the meantime, Stans has a 13-6 record against Arkansas since Nolen was fired.
Firing and hiring a new coach is a 'crap shoot' with a losing record ... just look over the last couple of years. Bama fans thought Grant was the best hire on the planet. Bama was picked higher than State by most pubs this year; as high as #3 in the SEC. Go read the Bama boards. After four losses in a row, many are already fed up and talking abut replacements.
and you'd crawl across broken glass naked to lick sweat off Rick's nutsack.
I stand by my comments. Kirby was the best assistant we had, but he couldn't even get the head coaching job at f'n Mississippi Valley. That speaks volumes. Don't try to convince anyone with a brain he left to try to improve his chances at becoming a HC. And yes, Rick was put on notice after last year's dumpster fire. How could he not have been? We had players fighting in the stands on national television, for ****'s sake. You can't tell me any competent AD wouldn't have had a candid conversation with his HC and demand serious changes. Hell, most competent ADs would have fired their HC if that **** had happened on their watch. So Rick is damn lucky to still be here this season. Now stop embarrassing yourself and go play bridge with the rest of the folks at the home.
I stand by my comments. Kirby was the best assistant we had, but he couldn't even get the head coaching job at f'n Mississippi Valley. That speaks volumes. Don't try to convince anyone with a brain he left to try to improve his chances at becoming a HC. And yes, Rick was put on notice after last year's dumpster fire. How could he not have been? We had players fighting in the stands on national television, for ****'s sake. You can't tell me any competent AD wouldn't have had a candid conversation with his HC and demand serious changes. Hell, most competent ADs would have fired their HC if that **** had happened on their watch. So Rick is damn lucky to still be here this season. Now stop embarrassing yourself and go play bridge with the rest of the folks at the home.
The problem with basketball in the SEC is more a function of the culture of the region. High school kids are not taught the fundamentals and provided with the tools they need to develop their basketball IQ in the South. How many Southern teams do you see featured nationally as basketball powers? And its not like there isn't talent all over the place down here.
So what that means is that a college coach in the SEC either needs to go elsewhere to get his talent, or he has to be able to teach these kids basically how the game is supposed to be played. That is the hard part and the reason some of the coaches fail. They simply don't know how to provide their players with the tools they need to improve in the areas of fundamentals and basketball IQ.
And THAT has been Stans biggest problem. He can get all the talent in the world to come to Starkville, but if he doesn't bring in guys with high basketball IQ and fundamental skills then he is still going to lose to teams who have these things. These are things that can be taught, but he does not do a good job in that regard.
So what that means is that a college coach in the SEC either needs to go elsewhere to get his talent, or he has to be able to teach these kids basically how the game is supposed to be played. That is the hard part and the reason some of the coaches fail. They simply don't know how to provide their players with the tools they need to improve in the areas of fundamentals and basketball IQ.
And THAT has been Stans biggest problem. He can get all the talent in the world to come to Starkville, but if he doesn't bring in guys with high basketball IQ and fundamental skills then he is still going to lose to teams who have these things. These are things that can be taught, but he does not do a good job in that regard.
Digress??? And 'caliper' earlier in the thread. For a bunch of (presumably) college-educated fans, we sure don't write like it.
Sweet 16 or better or be gone. How many more apathetic seasons do we have to endure to realize that Stansbury is too stubborn to learn from his past mistakes and has reached his ceiling? If we happen to make the tournament, there's going to be 2 pages worth of threads about how such and such team is a bad match-up for us and how we got hosed on the draw. It's like that every time we make the tournament. You know why? Because Stansbury can't coach his way out of a wet paper sack when it counts against unfamiliar competition.
Every season is another year full of excuses. We've had some decent regular season runs with the guy and there are some really good things about him as a coach. I don't hate the guy and don't think he's an awful coach. However, we've reached a point where there's nothing to look forward to any longer except more of the same. Just look to the incestuous coaching staff. It's full of MSU alumni and Cunningham (who has been here for over a decade). We've done very little to change over the years to improve on the areas we routinely struggle with. If we don't turn it up and make a serious run this year, I'm ready for a breath of fresh air.
Every season is another year full of excuses. We've had some decent regular season runs with the guy and there are some really good things about him as a coach. I don't hate the guy and don't think he's an awful coach. However, we've reached a point where there's nothing to look forward to any longer except more of the same. Just look to the incestuous coaching staff. It's full of MSU alumni and Cunningham (who has been here for over a decade). We've done very little to change over the years to improve on the areas we routinely struggle with. If we don't turn it up and make a serious run this year, I'm ready for a breath of fresh air.
Digress means to change direction entirely, such as digressing in a conversation (how meta). I believe the term you meant was 'regress' which means to move backwards.
..for Stansbury.
coach34's childish insults are beginning to be internalized by this board.
dawgstudent & all the dawgs@other places must feel proud.
coach34's childish insults are beginning to be internalized by this board.
dawgstudent & all the dawgs@other places must feel proud.
But I am friends with Kirby and I assure you my statements are fact. In fact, he still has his home in Starkville and would love to come back. As far as your twisting of the facts, Scott did talk to our staff about the incident in Hawaii but there was not pressure ever put on Stans to do anything else including a mandated number of wins which was implied by the post. Elgin had been a problem and he started it all. I would be willing to wager that you are one who was trying to run Sidney off too and that is typical of this board. I guess we can count our blessings that none of you coach anything at MSU because no telling what stupid things you'd do without information or understanding kids.
Anyways, there's a difference between Grant and Stansbury in my opinion in that we, as MSU fans, know exactly what we're going to get with Stansbury. Every year we're going to not respect our coaches, not run very good offensive sets, not know how to attack a zone defense, probably play pretty good defense and rebound well, always lose a few games to teams we shouldn't, usually play well in the SECT, and flame out quickly in the NCAAT. Every 17'ing year.
I want off that carousel, even if it means we swing and miss.
I trust Scott Stricklin, which helps me lead to this decision.
I want off that carousel, even if it means we swing and miss.
I trust Scott Stricklin, which helps me lead to this decision.
Definitely keep Stans. While he is not the greatest bench coach and bears the ultimate responsibility for the team's el foldo, I believe that he is the right fit for a secondary (at best) school in the basketball hierarchy. <span class="commentBody">Looking back over the years,
the one constant about Coach Stansbury's teams has been above average
defense. He hasn't all of a sudden forgot how to coach defense, so it's
gotta be the players. Sidney should bear much of the<span class="text_exposed_show">
blame (though he has improved his one on one defense recently, he still
can't figure out basic ball screens and pick and rolls), but frankly we
don't play much better when he's on the bench. Defense is fundamentals,
effort and heart. This team is sorely lacking in all three. </span></span>
the one constant about Coach Stansbury's teams has been above average
defense. He hasn't all of a sudden forgot how to coach defense, so it's
gotta be the players. Sidney should bear much of the<span class="text_exposed_show">
blame (though he has improved his one on one defense recently, he still
can't figure out basic ball screens and pick and rolls), but frankly we
don't play much better when he's on the bench. Defense is fundamentals,
effort and heart. This team is sorely lacking in all three. </span></span>