Anyone that says they would not rather have Cal as a Coach instead of this guy is not being truthful or their ego is so big they will not admit when they are wrong...
This is a nightmare of a program!
This is a nightmare of a program!
Truth...
- Thread starter Tim0808
- Start date
Cal went 9 and 16. Then two years with an offense just as bad as this where we went out in the first round. And then last year's flame out. We had 4 years of ****** basketball cals last year's with no end in sight. You cal pumpers are just as bad as the current pope lovers
It was time for Cal to go but not for Mark Pope. Mitch and his deputy AD killed the basketball program by taking a gamble on a
Coach that can’t win. If he could win he would have done it in previous coaching years.
Coach that can’t win. If he could win he would have done it in previous coaching years.
Yep, the fact that BYU is better now than they were with him at the helm says it all.
Why do folks keep bringing up the false dichotomy of Cal or Pope? You guys know other people coach basketball too, right?
I don’t want Cal but that doesn’t mean I want Pope.
Or….or we don’t have our head up our arses. Pope is cooked but a separation with Cal was a good thing. Barney doing the hiring is what screwed the process up.
Cal had to go. He wore out his welcome . It’s not like Cal and Pope are the only two coaches on earth . There were other options .
Now I will say I don’t think I have ever watched a more boring product than what is on the floor right now . The 9-16 team didn’t even look this pathetic
Now I will say I don’t think I have ever watched a more boring product than what is on the floor right now . The 9-16 team didn’t even look this pathetic
No, the TRUTH is that Mitch screwed up the hire. Plain and simple. Cal saved him the buyout and he still managed to screw it all up. I wouldn't trust Mitch to pour water out of a boot if the instructions were on the heel.
Mitch has made two bad basketball hires out of three. The first one because he beat Louisville at Rupp in the NCAA. It was a very overachieving team. He wasn't a great recruiter either. Offered an 8th grade Dakota Euton a scholarship and the kid ended up at Asbury with just a very average college career.
Kentucky should of had close to a dozen coaches say no before he hired Pope. Average coach at Utah Valley (double digit losses each year there) and BYU has improved after he left. Probably a nice guy but didn't have the pedigree to be Kentucky's third choice.
Kentucky should of had close to a dozen coaches say no before he hired Pope. Average coach at Utah Valley (double digit losses each year there) and BYU has improved after he left. Probably a nice guy but didn't have the pedigree to be Kentucky's third choice.
Pat Kelsey accomplishments. Yet we get a coach like Mark Pope at UK.
| Awards |
|---|
| 4x Big South regular season (2016, 2017, 2020, 2021) 3x Big South tournament (2017, 2020, 2021) 2x CAA regular season (2023, 2024) 2x CAA tournament (2023, 2024) |
| Big South Coach of the Year (2021) CAA Coach of the Year (2024) ACC Coach of the Year (2025) |
Why does it have to be either Cal or Pope? Cal was past his prime and Pope never had the chops to tale the job to begin with. It didn’t have to be Hurley or Oats, but you’re telling me that out of dozens of possible very good to elite coaches, all of them told Mitch Barnhart “no”?
This current version of cal yes. Cal when Barney fired him no. Barney is the problem for our bb program. He’s trying to tamp down our tradition so some of his guys like Strickland can get there’s. That bama ad is a Barney guy and I feel like he won’t poach from his buddies understudies whatever. Maybe why oats is a DNH
If the choice is Cal or Pope then the answer is always Cal.
But that’s not the choice. There’s 100’s of coaches out there better than Pope.
But that’s not the choice. There’s 100’s of coaches out there better than Pope.
You can say I am a Cal pumper and that is OK with me. I can understand Cal's struggles his last 4 years and can explain them to rational basketball fans. Fans with agenda will never understand because they do not want to understand. However, I can not understand Pope's struggles with 22 million salary cap. He was not a good coach last year. The defense was terrible with more than one conference defensive player of year award winners on the team. He was embarrassed at MSG by a team that did not make the tournament.
I am not saying it has to be Cal or Pope and I agree there are other coaches out there that can do this job, but you do not run off one of the top 3 coaches in the history of the program until you have a replacement.
If I am being honest, two things are true, even if they’re a little contradictory.
1. I was ready for Cal to go. I don’t want Cal to return.
2. If I was told in April 2024 my options were Cal or Pope, I choose Cal every time.
1. I was ready for Cal to go. I don’t want Cal to return.
2. If I was told in April 2024 my options were Cal or Pope, I choose Cal every time.
Two things can be true at the same time. Cal needed to leave, he ran his course here. Mark Pope is not cut out for the job. Neither is the dipshit in charge of making hires. You have to try really hard to screw up Kentucky Basketball and Barnfart has managed to do so multiple times.
I’d 100% have kept Cal I knew this would be the hire. It was time for him to go, but if he would have adjusted his model to NIL which he now has he would be fine, which Arkansas now is.
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Outta the frying pan and into the fire …
but wouldn’t wanna go back to the frying pan.
Outta the frying pan and into the fire …
And don't want to be in this fire
We never imagined Pope would give us all the same things we hated about Cal with worse results. Maybe he goes to Arky this year and by some miracle beats the crap out of Arky lol
If you think he is a bad coach, you should listen to his press conference. A third grader would make more logical sense that Pope did tonight's post game presser. He is an embarrassment to our University.
He wants out. He wants to quit. He just can’t quit like that because what man in the world would ever just quit. Hard position for Pope even if he loves UK. The pride of a man would be hard to just give up as the head coach of Kentucky.
Here's the strait truth that most of us die hard BBN fans don't want to hear.
1) Cal walked out on us. He wasn't fired. He quit.
2) Mitch tried to hire other coaches, all said no and some came out before being asked and said no
3) None of our players stayed, they all left the program
So blame Pope all you want, but Kentucky basketball over the last 5 years or so, has become irrelevant. We're no longer a premier program and haven't been in years. Mark Pope took the job because he played here. He loves Kentucky. All the other coaches don't care about Kentucky. To them, it's a "has been" program with unrealistic fans. They don't want to be in the dumpster fire that is UK basketball. It's why Cal quit. The fire got too hot for him too. Fans calling for him to be fired. No one should have to put up with that sort of hostility on the job. I read somewhere that he actually received death threats.
So if we fire Pope, who are we going to get? I PROMISE you, it won't' be a big name coach. None of them want to deal with this sort of crap. The fans hating them. Calling for them to be fired.Second guessing everything they do. Running down the players. Cal used to talk about it all the time. He used to say it didn't bother him, but it obviously did. We had a hall of fame coach that walked away from a lifetime contract because he just got tired of the BS.
1) Cal walked out on us. He wasn't fired. He quit.
2) Mitch tried to hire other coaches, all said no and some came out before being asked and said no
3) None of our players stayed, they all left the program
So blame Pope all you want, but Kentucky basketball over the last 5 years or so, has become irrelevant. We're no longer a premier program and haven't been in years. Mark Pope took the job because he played here. He loves Kentucky. All the other coaches don't care about Kentucky. To them, it's a "has been" program with unrealistic fans. They don't want to be in the dumpster fire that is UK basketball. It's why Cal quit. The fire got too hot for him too. Fans calling for him to be fired. No one should have to put up with that sort of hostility on the job. I read somewhere that he actually received death threats.
So if we fire Pope, who are we going to get? I PROMISE you, it won't' be a big name coach. None of them want to deal with this sort of crap. The fans hating them. Calling for them to be fired.Second guessing everything they do. Running down the players. Cal used to talk about it all the time. He used to say it didn't bother him, but it obviously did. We had a hall of fame coach that walked away from a lifetime contract because he just got tired of the BS.
We need to understand that the prestige dog really doesn’t hunt very well anymore in this day and age of college basketball and statuses change. If you’re Danny Hurley, why the hell would you come to Kentucky? He’s at a school that has won six national championships in a 26 year timeframe of which Kentucky has only won one and they’ll give him everything he wants up there in Storrs with all that rich New England money. He would not have improved his situation by coming to Lexington at all. He can live the hoops dreams up there in an area of the country where he’s from anyway, and never have to worry about football trying to squeeze into the way like here in SEC world.
With Drew, he got them a title, which was once unthinkable for a place like Baylor. Probably got him a lifetime contract. Mitch will have to aim lower. This fantasy that Kentucky fans have about bringing in a coach that has more credentials and achievements on his coat than general Patton is rooted in slightly more reality than that of the Harry Potter novels.
With Drew, he got them a title, which was once unthinkable for a place like Baylor. Probably got him a lifetime contract. Mitch will have to aim lower. This fantasy that Kentucky fans have about bringing in a coach that has more credentials and achievements on his coat than general Patton is rooted in slightly more reality than that of the Harry Potter novels.
Please explain to this rational fan why it was ok for Cal to suck for years but Pope has one bad year and you are throwing a fit. Do I believe Pope is the answer to take Kentucky back to the glory days? No. But I also understand Cal was washed up here at Kentucky and lost his edge and needed a new start. He got that and is doing pretty good so far but lets not forget that he went to the Sweet 16 last year just like Pope took UK. Difference is Cal had a lot more talent than Pope did. I think Pope and staff did the best job they could last year in the amount of time they had to build a team. This year sucks but also dont forget that last year Cal had an even worse start than this Kentucky team at this point.
well im not the dude ur talking to but ill give you my side. pope doesnt have as long of a leash as cal because lf what cal did here
also people kept hope with cal because of the talent he brought in, there was always a "what about next years stars" part lf the argument
with pope its different because not only has he not won anything meaningful, but he doesnt inject any future excitement for his teams bc his recruiting is so bad
Apparently asking for a coach who at least has a conference title or a couple tournament wins is too much for a little ole school like Kentucky.
Well, if the only two possible choices were Pope or Cal, maybe. Or maybe just stop watching UK sports like I did baseball decades ago.
But those aren't the only 2 possible choices, are they?
Pope not being the right guy does not make Cal the right guy. What kind of crazy logic tells you Pope being bad makes Cal the man? Pope not being the right coach just means we still need to find the right coach. I don't know who that is but I know who it's not...Cal.
Pope with more talent on the floor is what is needed. For him to miss on all the top guards and forwards is the issue. He missed in several big time frosh last cycle.
Will he miss this year? It looks like we are in the mix for a couple good players. If he can't land a couple and fill in with the portal and or returning players we want, there could be a chance for next year.
The first thing I would do is try to get Antiqua back. Let him recruit and bring in some stars. Sometimes you pay your money and take your chances with hiring people. This year he failed.
I think he's got 1 more year to turn this around. It has to be turned with better talent.
Will he miss this year? It looks like we are in the mix for a couple good players. If he can't land a couple and fill in with the portal and or returning players we want, there could be a chance for next year.
The first thing I would do is try to get Antiqua back. Let him recruit and bring in some stars. Sometimes you pay your money and take your chances with hiring people. This year he failed.
I think he's got 1 more year to turn this around. It has to be turned with better talent.
I get it but anyone who cant see Cal's time here was over is not being rational as the OP said. It was caused by several factors such as Cal pissing off Nike, terrible relationship with Mitch and his talking down to the fans and the last few years of not upholding the Kentucky standard.
Again I do not think Pope is the answer and regardless whether he is or not will work itself out soon enough. But for someone who is obviously a Call pumper asking others to be rational is comical. They want to break down Pope for 1 bad year but cant see Cal's bad years without their opinion of why he did not perform. Same person doesn't give any such consideration to why Pope may not being performing this year. Just wants to pump up Cal.
Ok. You ask and I will explain.
Let's look at his last 4 years.
Year 1. 9-16 season was a COVID year. An abbreviated season. Practice times were not the same as a regular season. No fans in the stands. He played with younger players, that needed extra time to develop. It was a bad year under a world crisis with crazy circumstances. Cal did not handle it well but there were a lot of first that he was dealing with besides just basketball.
Year 2. Finished the season ranked #7 in the AP poll (not a bad ranking). Lost in SEC Tournament in semifinals to Tennessee (not horrible, not great). Lost in the first round of the NCAA tournament in overtime to the regional finalist team that also defeated Purdue to make it to the elite Eight. They lost in first round but did not to a bad team. They lost to a regional finalist in overtime. Kentucky had a very good season. Good enough to earn a #2 seed in the tournament. If the same ST. PETER'S players had Virginia on their jerseys, it would not be perceived as the same as it was being St. Peter's. UK had a 26-8 regular season, 14-4 in SEC record tied for second in the conference. Not a bad season.
Year 3. Lost in the second round of NCAA tournament to #3 seed regional finalist Kansas State team that had a hot player scored 27 points and still barely beat Kentucky. Again, this team went on to beat Michigan State to finish as region finalist. This was still an underachieving season, but Cason Wallace had back issues, scorer Reeves played with dislocated finger, Toppin had rib issues and the two big guys had feet problems. However, Kentucky still earned a #6 seed in the tournament, but still not a good year by Kentucky Standards for sure. UK was 22-12 and 12-6 in SEC.
Year 4. Finished season ranked #12 (not great, but not horrible. That ranking is a pipedream now!) Lost in the first round to Oakland lead by a hot shooting 24 year old that hit 10 threes and scored 32 points beating UK by only 4 points. Oakland went on to get beat in overtime by NC state. Kentucky finished 23-10 and 13-5 in SEC finishing second in the conference.
The format of college basketball did not fit Cal's philosophy. He likes playing freshman. He likes recruiting freshman. However, during this time, college basketball got older. Players were granted an extra year for covid. It forced 18 and 19 year old kids to play against 24 and 25 year old men. It was something Cal had to get through. Now we are over it or at the end of that time. That is why freshman are starting to have a big impact on the college game again. The COVID year took Kentucky's biggest advantage away from the team and that was the fans. Everything was terrible that year.
I appreciate your reply and the tone of your post. That is very rare on this board where everyone just wants to argue, attack and complain. I understand all the things you stated above as I am a UK fan too and went through it with you just as all other UK fans did. But others could also look at them as excuses for Cal. Only thing I ask is to allow the same rational thought to Pope. He has dealt with injuries more so than Cal. Also, Covid happened for every program and there were still numerous programs that had good years. Keep in mind I am not a Pope apologist or even trying to defend him as after he was hired I said Mitch should lose his job over the hire. But if we are going to use context for Cal then we also should for Pope. Again really appreciate your response.
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Thank you. I agree everyone had the same issues as Cal did during the COVID. And I agree that was a bad year. I agree injuries have hurt Cal and Pope's teams. The reason I have a hard time buying in on Pope is that he does not have any history or record that gives me hope. The no conference championships, no tournament wins and his previous record of 187 wins and 108 losses. I think that stat is the most alarming because of so many data points. After 295 games, I think the record will give some indication of the type of coach a person is. As for Cal, yes I think some times it was painful to watch the slow down basketball and grind it out style. Very similar to Tubby. However, I think Cal had still had some decent years when everyone was saying it was awful, but ran into some hot teams at the wrong time and was crucified for it, without regard to what else he achieved. I thought listening to Cal was like listening to Trump, so I do not listen to either. However, I appreciate the discussion too and I hope Pope turns it around, I just do not believe he will.
Once Cal wouldn't start Reed and Rob I was done with that moron. Pope sucks. Find a winner because it ain't those two.
Personally I can give Pope some leeway on all the portal guys not working out. I say that based on hiring folks and sometimes despite all the proper vetting they just dont perform as imagined for a variety of reasons.
My reason for not wanting him back is because of his actions after it was obvious the roster wasn't cohesive. He should have immediately recognized this and addressed that by changing the system to fit his current team.
He has still not done that 100% and we sit at 9-6 with multiple blowouts. Our rotations still aren't tight and they still dont make sense.That is unacceptable and a huge red flag.
Even worse it appears that the team has tuned him out and they dont respect him. Other than benching BG he hasn't weeded out or dealt with any troublemakers. MD should have been benched for what he said to the press earlier this week. He dissed Pope , the coaches and his teammates publivly but yet there he is starting . JL ignored the play called for by Pope at the end of the game.
Instead of passing to KW or OO he just did what he wanted and tossed up a brick. Players do that stuff only when they dont respect the coach and know there will be no consequences.DA does whatever he wants and won't pass to OO and vice versa . Complete BS .
Pope doesn't have the skillset or mentality to be the ceo of our team. He shows the same deficiencies as a manager in the private sector who has lost the control and respect of his staff.