UK Head Coaches

[kb22stang]

I hope to get serious responses to this, but I'm sure it's a pipe dream. Since Claiborne came to UK, how many coaches have done more than Stoops in the first few years. And I don't mean just wins and losses, though those are the main factor. I also factor in what a coach started with.

I'd say Claiborne and then maybe Mumme just because of the hype he brought to the program even if it didn't work out in the end.

Brooks I'd say is a toss up.

I'd put Stoops over: Joker, Curry, & Morris.

 

[JasonS.]

IMO Stoops and Curry are pretty analogous. Lot of excitement over improved recruiting and new facilities the first few years by fans starved for a winner. Commonwealth routinely packed. We're at the point now (Year 4) when Curry put together a legitimately very good, if inconsistent, team (1993 Peach Bowl year, 3rd place in the SEC East).

 

[LowCountryCat]

Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't recall Morris having the volume of in-game gaffes Stoops has bestowed upon us.

 

[WildCard]

I just happen to have that information handy. First 3 years (2 years for Morriss) records of

Jerry Claiborne ('82-'84) 15-18-2 Overall; 5-13 SEC; 1-1 in bowls

Bill Curry ('90-'92) 11-22 Overall; 5-17 SEC; no bowls

Hal Mumme ('97-99') 18-17 Overall; 10-14 SEC; 0-2 in bowls

Guy Morriss ('01-'02) 9-14 Overall; 4-12 SEC; no bowls

Rich Brooks ('03-'05) 9-25 Overall; 4-20 SEC; no bowls

Joker Phillips ('10-'12) 13-24 Overall; 4-20 SEC; 0-1 in bowls

Mark Stoops ('13-'15) 12-24 Overall; 4-20 SEC; no bowls​

With the clear exception of Joker Phillips (and probably Hal Mumme as Curry recruited fairly well) each of these coaches inherited a losing mess of a program from the previous staff. After all, that is why you hire new staffs. If you measure "success" by the SEC part of the record, Mumme is the only guy that got something done in his first 3 years.

Peace

 

[UK Cats Rock]

I just happen to have that information handy. First 3 years (2 years for Morriss) records of

Jerry Claiborne ('82-'84) 15-18-2 Overall; 5-13 SEC; 1-1 in bowls

Bill Curry ('90-'92) 11-22 Overall; 5-17 SEC; no bowls

Hal Mumme ('97-99') 18-17 Overall; 10-14 SEC; 0-2 in bowls

Guy Morriss ('01-'02) 9-14 Overall; 4-12 SEC; no bowls

Rich Brooks ('03-'05) 9-25 Overall; 4-20 SEC; no bowls

Joker Phillips ('10-'12) 13-24 Overall; 4-20 SEC; 0-1 in bowls

Mark Stoops ('13-'15) 12-24 Overall; 4-20 SEC; no bowls​

With the clear exception of Joker Phillips (and probably Hal Mumme as Curry recruited fairly well) each of these coaches inherited a losing mess of a program from the previous staff. After all, that is why you hire new staffs. If you measure "success" by the SEC part of the record, Mumme is the only guy that got something done in his first 3 years.

Peace

And Mumme finished in his last year at 2-9, if I'm not mistaken.Curry's last year was abysmal and I think even Claiborne's was. I am ONLY going off of memory, so that's probably not a good thing.

 

[LowCountryCat]

Mumme relied too much on gimmicks. Fake punts don't fool people if you run them three times a game.

 

[KY1WING]

Mumme's last year was total turmoil. Leach was gone. Hatcher was leaving to be HC at Valdosta. He and Franklin were fighting. I believe he'd reluctantly fired his DC. And then you had Claude or the after effects of Claude. The team was in shambles with him naming Bonner as starting QB after spring ball only to pull it in May and after further review decided that really freshman Jared Lorenzen was the better QB. Bonner transfers to Valdosta when he leads them to a championship and he wins back to back

 

[WildCard]

And Mumme finished in his last year at 2-9, if I'm not mistaken.Curry's last year was abysmal and I think even Claiborne's was. I am ONLY going off of memory, so that's probably not a good thing.

Yeah, that's true but I'm not sure I get your point. My point was Mumme's good start was due in some part to some pretty decent talent left behind by his predecessor something that no other new UK coaches have experienced (other than Joker of course) Mumme inherited Couch, some good WRs and some big OLs that were actually pretty dominating in term of doing what they were trying to do offensively. And no UK coach in history inherited a UK football program in better shape than did Joker.

Peace

 

[KY1WING]

Sorry premature post

Harlen Hill trophy (DII Heisman). Seems several other teammates transferred out as well and several that stayed weren't happy over the handling of the whole situation (as I recall)

May want to asterisk Morriss' record. He would have taken them bowling but for sanctions from the Mumme era.

If you look back at Curry's career he was fairly successful at schools that had FB AD's - GT and Bama but struggled more when he got to a school with a BB AD.

Yeah, he couldn't be Auburn while at Bama but it didn't matter-you don't bring a GT man in to coach Bama. At that time the only hire that would have been worse for the Tide was to hire Pat Dye.

They've all struggled. This is has been a hard place to win since Bryant.

 

[JordanJ21]

Stoops getting the facility next to the stadium is one reason I think he deserves more time. What he has been able to recruit on the vision alone is out of UK realm, but when it actually gets here, if he can just get over the hump, can really do stuff that's never happened here. Just not sure if he is good enough X's and O's based on the decent sample size we have thus far.

 

[Shavers48]

as I recall, Morris had some pretty decent special teams. wasn't that the Derek Abney era?

 

[NoDef]

Curry recruiting must of been overrated. I watched a replay last year of one of Curry's later teams when the SEC network ran a Peyton Manning tribute. It showed a UK /UT game in its entirety and it was a pathetic product on the field. Our kids were noticeably smaller than UT and to make it worse we were not even close in speed. It was kind of comical watching us try to do much of anything on either side of the ball. Those teams didn't even pass the look test.

Mumme was just good at what he did. Not so very good on defense (actually bad) but ran his offense side very good. Took a below average line and ran offensive plays that didn't expose its weakness. Also having Couch back there didn't hurt. Would of went to a bowl in year 1 if the NCAA had added the extra cupcake we have now. Another advantage coaches didnt' have back then was having to play a home and home with Indiana. Indiana was not great, but playing a P5 school on the road is a lot more difficult than Charlotte at home. Mumme threw in the towel and benched Bonner after a bowl year trying to prime his team to an 8 or 9 win team by giving Lorenzon experience. Who knows how it would of turned out without Bassett doing his thing.

 

[UK Cats Rock]

Yeah, that's true but I'm not sure I get your point. My point was Mumme's good start was due in some part to some pretty decent talent left behind by his predecessor something that no other new UK coaches have experienced (other than Joker of course) Mumme inherited Couch, some good WRs and some big OLs that were actually pretty dominating in term of doing what they were trying to do offensively. And no UK coach in history inherited a UK football program in better shape than did Joker.

Peace

Just saying what you pretty much did. Mumme came in with decent talent and ended up going 2-9 in his last season. Joker came in with a program seemingly on the rise and ended up 2-10 and running it back in the ground.

The point is, for me, not how the coach starts - but how he ends. This is why I refused to get on Brooks until he had plenty of time to rebuild (much like Stoops is having to do). If we are still in this same situation in a couple of more years, then it might be time to do something. Until then, I'm willing to wait it out. I don't want to start over AGAIN and think there is potential for Stoops to improve his coaching and the overall program. tiem

 

[UK Cats Rock]

Mumme's last year was total turmoil. Leach was gone. Hatcher was leaving to be HC at Valdosta. He and Franklin were fighting. I believe he'd reluctantly fired his DC. And then you had Claude or the after effects of Claude. The team was in shambles with him naming Bonner as starting QB after spring ball only to pull it in May and after further review decided that really freshman Jared Lorenzen was the better QB. Bonner transfers to Valdosta when he leads them to a championship and he wins back to back

Good ole' Mike Majors. Ervin Flowers (I believe it was) got on here and said Majors would try and copy the defense of the team that played our upcoming opponent that very week.

Example:

The week before us, Louisville played Pittsburgh. Majors would try to teach the defense the Pittsburgh defense for the upcoming game against Louisville. Maybe someone else on here remembers that and can correct me if I am wrong, but seems that's what he said.

In comes John Goodner who probably would have done us a really good job, but obviously, things didn't work out.

 

[CloverforkCat]

And Mumme finished in his last year at 2-9, if I'm not mistaken.Curry's last year was abysmal and I think even Claiborne's was. I am ONLY going off of memory, so that's probably not a good thing.

Claibornes' last year they went 6-5, that was in '89.

 

[frost1]

didn't Mumme not allow hitting in practice ?

 

[ZakkW]

Claibornes' last year they went 6-5, that was in '89.

Yeah, they finally broke through the 5 win plateau for the first time since 1984, but had to win the finale v. Tennessee to get a bowl bid(Independence, IIRC). Of course, they lost and Claiborne's career was over.

 

[cat_in_the_hat]

Yeah, that's true but I'm not sure I get your point. My point was Mumme's good start was due in some part to some pretty decent talent left behind by his predecessor something that no other new UK coaches have experienced (other than Joker of course) Mumme inherited Couch, some good WRs and some big OLs that were actually pretty dominating in term of doing what they were trying to do offensively. And no UK coach in history inherited a UK football program in better shape than did Joker.

Peace

I'll probably get a lot of disagreement on this, but I don't think Joker inherited a program in great shape. I'm not a Joker fan. I don't think he is head coach material. That being said, I think Brook's last couple of recruiting classes did not have the same talent level that his previous classes had. That may have been one reason he decided to go ahead an retire, who knows. But I think the program was started to dip again. It probably wouldn't have fallen nearly as far as it did if Brooks had stayed, but I think we had peaked and were headed downhill. Joker just compounded a problem that was already looming.

 

[cottontowncat]

but wasn't joker in charge of recruiting

 

[cat_in_the_hat]

but wasn't joker in charge of recruiting

I'm not trying to place blame, I'm saying the last couple of classes weren't that good. If you follow the logic you are hinting at, then Joker was responsible for the good years we had under Brooks. I don't buy into that logic. Football is a team sport, playing, coaching, and recruiting. One person does not make or break you. You succeed or fail as a team. I'm not defending Joker at all. I'm just pointing out that the program wasn't in the shape lots of people thought it was when he took over. It was in much better shape than it was when he left, but he didn't inherit a program poised to explode. He inherited a program that was starting to slip and needed an infusion of talent to stay at the level they had been playing at. He couldn't pull that off and the program continued to decline to the mess Stoops inherited. I for one, believe any coach here needs more time than in most other programs in the SEC. This is an extremely difficult job and it will take several years to really determine what a coach is ultimately capable of. As long as recruiting is holding up, I would like to see Stoops, or any coach, get 5 years to see what he can accomplish.

 

[Johnfarrel]

Clayborn's last (89) was 6-5. His leaving was a surprise. Be just thought it was time.

 

[UK Cats Rock]

Claibornes' last year they went 6-5, that was in '89.

Thanks for the clarification. I appreciate it.

 

[WildCard]

I'll probably get a lot of disagreement on this, but I don't think Joker inherited a program in great shape. I'm not a Joker fan. I don't think he is head coach material. That being said, I think Brook's last couple of recruiting classes did not have the same talent level that his previous classes had. That may have been one reason he decided to go ahead an retire, who knows. But I think the program was started to dip again. It probably wouldn't have fallen nearly as far as it did if Brooks had stayed, but I think we had peaked and were headed downhill. Joker just compounded a problem that was already looming.

Great shape? No. But better shape than any other coach I can recall. Most coaching changes occur because the incumbent was not getting it done and that was not the case with Brooks. After those first 3 years he had a nice little run by UK standards. Recruiting was not great under Brooks but, unlike Joker's staff, Brooks staff did a much better job of coaching up what they had.

Peace

 

[KY1WING]

Clayborn's last (89) was 6-5. His leaving was a surprise. Be just thought it was time.

I think there were a couple of things Claiborne attributed to his hanging it up - the wear and tear of recruiting and just life in general. i seem to recall a flight back from recruiting through a severe storm got his attention. I think the passing of friends and colleagues (like Coach Brooks mentioned) also played a part.

He knew that in order to win though you had to recruit and the wear and tear to try and keep up was getting too much.

Loved his teams and the wide tackle six.

 

[CloverforkCat]

I'll probably get a lot of disagreement on this, but I don't think Joker inherited a program in great shape. I'm not a Joker fan. I don't think he is head coach material. That being said, I think Brook's last couple of recruiting classes did not have the same talent level that his previous classes had. That may have been one reason he decided to go ahead an retire, who knows. But I think the program was started to dip again. It probably wouldn't have fallen nearly as far as it did if Brooks had stayed, but I think we had peaked and were headed downhill. Joker just compounded a problem that was already looming.

Coach Brooks left Joker with M Hartline, R Cobb, D Locke, C Matthews, L Warford, D Trevathan, L King etc. Several played, or are playing in the NFL.

 

[SanAntonioCat_rivals376502]

Clayborn's last (89) was 6-5. His leaving was a surprise. Be just thought it was time.

Coach Claiborne was in his early 60s when he abruptly retired. He was on a recruiting trip somewhere in Ohio when his small plane encountered a storm and severe turbulence. The experience caused him to call it quits. He later had early onset Alzheimer's and passed away way to soon. Wonderful man and highly successful coach. His name should be on CWS instead of CM.

 

[Deeeefense]

I just happen to have that information handy. First 3 years (2 years for Morriss) records of

Jerry Claiborne ('82-'84) 15-18-2 Overall; 5-13 SEC; 1-1 in bowls

Bill Curry ('90-'92) 11-22 Overall; 5-17 SEC; no bowls

Hal Mumme ('97-99') 18-17 Overall; 10-14 SEC; 0-2 in bowls

Guy Morriss ('01-'02) 9-14 Overall; 4-12 SEC; no bowls

Rich Brooks ('03-'05) 9-25 Overall; 4-20 SEC; no bowls

Joker Phillips ('10-'12) 13-24 Overall; 4-20 SEC; 0-1 in bowls

Mark Stoops ('13-'15) 12-24 Overall; 4-20 SEC; no bowls​

With the clear exception of Joker Phillips (and probably Hal Mumme as Curry recruited fairly well) each of these coaches inherited a losing mess of a program from the previous staff. After all, that is why you hire new staffs. If you measure "success" by the SEC part of the record, Mumme is the only guy that got something done in his first 3 years.

Peace

One footnote. Guy Morris had a 7-5 season in his second year 2002 but we could not go to a bowl becasue we were still on probation.

Considering the mess he was left with I think that was a pretty good showing.

 

[Glenn Fohr]

Morris had some great talent on both sides of the ball. He added a power game to Lorenzen and he had plenty of play makers on both sides of the ball.

 

[SanAntonioCat_rivals376502]

Morris had some great talent on both sides of the ball. He added a power game to Lorenzen and he had plenty of play makers on both sides of the ball.

Excellent position coach, failed as head coach (Baylor). Popular with players, nice guy.

 

[Allan Brewer]

Personally the guy whose performance (and background) I find most similar to CMS is John Ray

No reason to cite all the similarities as I and others have done it earlier

The bigger question for all of us is simply: will Mark Stoops get it together in the fourth year, against a tough schedule, and find his way to something approaching success here

So far, the evidence isn't very favorable....but it's college football and thus anything can happen

 

[SanAntonioCat_rivals376502]

Personally the guy whose performance (and background) I find most similar to CMS is John Ray

No reason to cite all the similarities as I and others have done it earlier

The bigger question for all of us is simply: will Mark Stoops get it together in the fourth year, against a tough schedule, and find his way to something approaching success here

So far, the evidence isn't very favorable....but it's college football and thus anything can happen

I agree with your thoughts about John Ray.

 

[rmattox]

Personally the guy whose performance (and background) I find most similar to CMS is John Ray

No reason to cite all the similarities as I and others have done it earlier

The bigger question for all of us is simply: will Mark Stoops get it together in the fourth year, against a tough schedule, and find his way to something approaching success here

So far, the evidence isn't very favorable....but it's college football and thus anything can happen

Hadn't thought about it that way. Frightening

 

[sluggercatfan]

I hope to get serious responses to this, but I'm sure it's a pipe dream. Since Claiborne came to UK, how many coaches have done more than Stoops in the first few years. And I don't mean just wins and losses, though those are the main factor. I also factor in what a coach started with.

I'd say Claiborne and then maybe Mumme just because of the hype he brought to the program even if it didn't work out in the end.

Brooks I'd say is a toss up.

I'd put Stoops over: Joker, Curry, & Morris.

The biggest problem with Stoops--like JP--is the organization in the field and that the coaches and players look list and there is nobody in charge.. if it is true what Josh Forrest said after the game last Saturday that they had not worked on preparation for dealing with Lamar Jackson then this entire coaching staff should be fired..

 

[Allan Brewer]

Just speaking off-hand, in my experience watching and listening to Kentucky football coaches there is a definite hierarchy of blame-shifting that ultimately leads to somebody losing their head coaching job:

1. is the "I take full responsibility" phase where the coach puts himself up front as the culprit for a bad game or season
2. is the "We need to coach harder, practice harder, play harder" phase which is where we've been most of this season
3. (and last) is the "So and so player wasn't in the right position, we coached them to do this and do that and they didn't" set of answers to criticism

To be frank, we haven't gotten to stage 3 yet. although defections from the team and decommits are a telling blow that suggest this is happening internally, but if and when it happens publicly we will know that the Mark Stoops era is over.

 

[NCukcat62]

I think the 3rd year is always good indicator where the program is headed. So as of right now, stoops has shown some promise after year 3 but I'm not sure. However we gave Brooks a 4th year and everything turned out well. Will stoops do what brooks did his 4th year? We'll see. The good news is that stoops is getting more depth and the fact that 3 east schools will have new coaches and Mississippi state loses dak Prescott.