UT AD Danny White calls for Collective Bargaining

Dawgzilla2

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lots of interesting stuff in this article, but not enough detail, really. Danny White states the obvious - Collective Bargaining is the only real solution to college sports' problems - but his plan is for athletes to be employees of some organization other than the Universities. I want to see his slideshow

Other interesting tidbits from the article:

"During a recent football team meeting, one SEC school illustrated the impending decrease in pay, showing players that their expected allocation this coming year (about $14 million) is roughly half of what the school spent on last year’s team (about $27 million)."

So the schools are expecting - and intending - the players to receive less money, at least in the high profile sports. That's where the real friction is here.

And more on those contracts with the schools for revenue sharing. This may be what kills the House Settlement setup. Sounds like some of the contract clauses may be unenforceable:


"As a mechanism to share revenue with athletes and to avoid the appearance of employment, schools are signing players to what universities are terming “marketing” contracts where the school purchases the player’s name, image and likeness (NIL) rights.

White says this is “disingenuous.”

“They aren’t marketing deals,” he continues. “We have to stop pretending that they are not getting compensated for playing for us.”

Michael Leroy, an Illinois law professor who has published extensive work on labor policy, has obtained, through records requests, several contracts schools are offering to athletes. The contracts “read like employee handbooks,” he says, featuring liquidated damages (buyouts) and clauses that grant schools the right to end the deal or stop compensation for a variety of reasons, including for injuries and academic eligibility — hallmarks of employment deals.


And then there's this regarding Collective bargaining:

It’s not clear at this point in time that college athletes want to be in a union,” said Gabe Feldman, a sports law professor at Tulane. “They may feel they’re getting the benefits they need through antitrust law.”
 

dawgstudent

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lots of interesting stuff in this article, but not enough detail, really. Danny White states the obvious - Collective Bargaining is the only real solution to college sports' problems - but his plan is for athletes to be employees of some organization other than the Universities. I want to see his slideshow

Other interesting tidbits from the article:

"During a recent football team meeting, one SEC school illustrated the impending decrease in pay, showing players that their expected allocation this coming year (about $14 million) is roughly half of what the school spent on last year’s team (about $27 million)."

So the schools are expecting - and intending - the players to receive less money, at least in the high profile sports. That's where the real friction is here.

And more on those contracts with the schools for revenue sharing. This may be what kills the House Settlement setup. Sounds like some of the contract clauses may be unenforceable:


"As a mechanism to share revenue with athletes and to avoid the appearance of employment, schools are signing players to what universities are terming “marketing” contracts where the school purchases the player’s name, image and likeness (NIL) rights.

White says this is “disingenuous.”

“They aren’t marketing deals,” he continues. “We have to stop pretending that they are not getting compensated for playing for us.”

Michael Leroy, an Illinois law professor who has published extensive work on labor policy, has obtained, through records requests, several contracts schools are offering to athletes. The contracts “read like employee handbooks,” he says, featuring liquidated damages (buyouts) and clauses that grant schools the right to end the deal or stop compensation for a variety of reasons, including for injuries and academic eligibility — hallmarks of employment deals.


And then there's this regarding Collective bargaining:

It’s not clear at this point in time that college athletes want to be in a union,” said Gabe Feldman, a sports law professor at Tulane. “They may feel they’re getting the benefits they need through antitrust law.”
It's all a farce.
 

Xenomorph

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Sounds like Danny is coming around to the Xeno Model.

The collectives should own the teams and the players should be employees for them. Next up… a draft!

College football needs to face the fact that the NFL has distilled all this down to a science. Any other ingredients in the ether just 17’s up the potion.

This will all evolve into NFL-Light. There is no other way.
 
Last edited:

patdog

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May 28, 2007
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Key part of that entire article.

It’s not clear at this point in time that college athletes want to be in a union,” said Gabe Feldman, a sports law professor at Tulane. “They may feel they’re getting the benefits they need through antitrust law.”
 

Bulldog from Birth

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This is the framework of the solution:

1. Players must cede all NIL, other employment income, etc to join the college sports union and play.

2. #1 probably requires legislation. Joining the union must be required.

3. All athletes in a particular sport are fixed at a modest salary. $50k per year? $200k per year? Something in that range. Across the board. Everyone gets the same.

4. How do you do #3? You offer a deal where at least 51% of the players are getting a much better deal than present. Don’t cater to the 5 star QBs. Cater to the backup guard and the 3rd string WR. Ensure they are getting a better deal than present and they’ll approve the agreement.

5. If the 5 star QB doesn’t like it. Tough. He can go work at Burger King while he waits on the NFL. Don’t need him for a great and enjoyable college football system. There is no market for that person without the tradition, pageantry, and university affiliation offered by college football, which is the real value driver of this.

6. Contracts. Player gets a player option to sign a 2, 3, or 4 year deal unless it’s a final year type deal. University has to honor their choice unless they violate terms (gpa, attendance, drug screen, criminality ,etc). If players want to bet on themselves with a shorter deal, they can. But the university has no obligation beyond that choice of duration. Leaving early requires a negotiated buyout like any other contract. And this ends the portal chaos and Wild West we have now.

Problem solved. System is saved.
 

T-TownDawgg

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The lawyers at the NLRB said this years ago.

They suggested Collective Bargaing agents in at lest 3 tiers:

Players Unions
Individual schools
Conferences
 

Xenomorph

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This is the framework of the solution:

1. Players must cede all NIL, other employment income, etc to join the college sports union and play.

2. #1 probably requires legislation. Joining the union must be required.

3. All athletes in a particular sport are fixed at a modest salary. $50k per year? $200k per year? Something in that range. Across the board. Everyone gets the same.

4. How do you do #3? You offer a deal where at least 51% of the players are getting a much better deal than present. Don’t cater to the 5 star QBs. Cater to the backup guard and the 3rd string WR. Ensure they are getting a better deal than present and they’ll approve the agreement.

5. If the 5 star QB doesn’t like it. Tough. He can go work at Burger King while he waits on the NFL. Don’t need him for a great and enjoyable college football system. There is no market for that person without the tradition, pageantry, and university affiliation offered by college football, which is the real value driver of this.

6. Contracts. Player gets a player option to sign a 2, 3, or 4 year deal unless it’s a final year type deal. University has to honor their choice unless they violate terms (gpa, attendance, drug screen, criminality ,etc). If players want to bet on themselves with a shorter deal, they can. But the university has no obligation beyond that choice of duration. Leaving early requires a negotiated buyout like any other contract. And this ends the portal chaos and Wild West we have now.

Problem solved. System is saved.
Some good ideas there but it ignores the elephant in the room.. the actual education we’re still all pretending is a component of all this.

Continuing with the charade of “student athletes” is the albatross around the neck of the entire thing.

Unwind education from college football and this all becomes very simple very quickly.
 

patdog

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This is the framework of the solution:

1. Players must cede all NIL, other employment income, etc to join the college sports union and play.

2. #1 probably requires legislation. Joining the union must be required.

3. All athletes in a particular sport are fixed at a modest salary. $50k per year? $200k per year? Something in that range. Across the board. Everyone gets the same.

4. How do you do #3? You offer a deal where at least 51% of the players are getting a much better deal than present. Don’t cater to the 5 star QBs. Cater to the backup guard and the 3rd string WR. Ensure they are getting a better deal than present and they’ll approve the agreement.

5. If the 5 star QB doesn’t like it. Tough. He can go work at Burger King while he waits on the NFL. Don’t need him for a great and enjoyable college football system. There is no market for that person without the tradition, pageantry, and university affiliation offered by college football, which is the real value driver of this.

6. Contracts. Player gets a player option to sign a 2, 3, or 4 year deal unless it’s a final year type deal. University has to honor their choice unless they violate terms (gpa, attendance, drug screen, criminality ,etc). If players want to bet on themselves with a shorter deal, they can. But the university has no obligation beyond that choice of duration. Leaving early requires a negotiated buyout like any other contract. And this ends the portal chaos and Wild West we have now.

Problem solved. System is saved.
That's great. Except that any legislation in #2 would be easily thrown out by the courts.
 

Bulldog from Birth

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That's great. Except that any legislation in #2 would be easily thrown out by the courts.
You may be right. But there are plenty of areas of the country that aren’t right to work. Union membership to work somewhere is required. Is this different?
 

patdog

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Who in the world cares about minor league football for 20 year olds if it’s unwound from colleges? I’d venture a guess as to almost nobody. Complicated problem.
Divorce college football from the universities and about as many people would pay to watch the Columbus Buckeyes vs the Ann Arbor Wolverines as pay to watch USFL or Arena League football.
 

Bulldog from Birth

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Divorce college football from the universities and about as many people would pay to watch the Columbus Buckeyes vs the Ann Arbor Wolverines as pay to watch USFL or Arena League football.
Only if you offer 99 cent hot dog night with a free fireworks show after the game.
 

Xenomorph

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Who in the world cares about minor league football for 20 year olds if it’s unwound from colleges? I’d venture a guess as to almost nobody. Complicated problem.
Eh… if I had a nickel for every time we’ve all quit college football…

Eta: The teams will still represent the universities. The jerseys won’t change. Well… except maybe for the tiny patches or helmet decal that signifies their declared major. We’ll just have to endeavor to soldier on without those.
 

Xenomorph

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And let me pose another question…

Why is a school like MSU investing millions in a bunch of 18-22 year olds who face forced retirement when they reach age 23?

All that money wasted… just walking out the door every year to join the gen pop work force.

When they are no longer students we can keep them around longer for better ROI.
 

Captain Ron

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The whole draft thing.. I just don’t see that working. Even if the players are getting paid, for most it isn’t life changing money and they will not be going to the NFL (NBA etc) so they may actually care about the degree. Now they are gonna be forced via a draft to get a degree from a school that doesn’t fit their needs?

Ain’t saying there isn’t a solution, but I agree with others as you start to divorce the players from the school, you the interest for me anyway dwindles.
 

Xenomorph

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And it ceases to be college football and becomes minor league NFL.
My brother… it already is. We’re just clinging to 100 years of nostalgia while pretending we don’t understand what’s happening.

IMG_9669.gif
 

TheBannerM

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When they are no longer students we can keep them around longer for better ROI.
Watching some almost 30-something year old QB bounce around from school to school, chasing his dreams - sorry that isn't college football. There's are reason why the NFL's feeder league (NCAA football) is much more popular than minor league baseball.
 
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Xenomorph

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Watching some almost 30-something year old QB bounce around from school to school, chasing his dreams - sorry that isn't college football. There's are reason why the NFL's feeder league (NCAA football) is much more popular than minor league baseball.
You’re talking about what we all WANT… and what we all want is in stark contrast to what the evolution of this business model is going to produce.
 
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TheBannerM

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My brother… it already is. We’re just clinging to 100 years of nostalgia while pretending we don’t understand what’s happening.

View attachment 831649
I understand perfectly what is happening. I also understand that it's bad for everyone involved and will kill the sport eventually. But at least the players and the lawyers made a lot of money for a few years.
 

DAWGSANDSAINTS

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Some good ideas there but it ignores the elephant in the room.. the actual education we’re still all pretending is a component of all this.

Continuing with the charade of “student athletes” is the albatross around the neck of the entire thing.

Unwind education from college football and this all becomes very simple very quickly.
I’ve said it before and I’ll
say it again - and I wish I could say it to G Stankey, if I hear you call them student athletes again, I will loudly call BS and I may throw my shoe at your dubmass!
 

Dawgzilla2

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This is the framework of the solution:

1. Players must cede all NIL, other employment income, etc to join the college sports union and play.

2. #1 probably requires legislation. Joining the union must be required.

3. All athletes in a particular sport are fixed at a modest salary. $50k per year? $200k per year? Something in that range. Across the board. Everyone gets the same.

4. How do you do #3? You offer a deal where at least 51% of the players are getting a much better deal than present. Don’t cater to the 5 star QBs. Cater to the backup guard and the 3rd string WR. Ensure they are getting a better deal than present and they’ll approve the agreement.

5. If the 5 star QB doesn’t like it. Tough. He can go work at Burger King while he waits on the NFL. Don’t need him for a great and enjoyable college football system. There is no market for that person without the tradition, pageantry, and university affiliation offered by college football, which is the real value driver of this.

6. Contracts. Player gets a player option to sign a 2, 3, or 4 year deal unless it’s a final year type deal. University has to honor their choice unless they violate terms (gpa, attendance, drug screen, criminality ,etc). If players want to bet on themselves with a shorter deal, they can. But the university has no obligation beyond that choice of duration. Leaving early requires a negotiated buyout like any other contract. And this ends the portal chaos and Wild West we have now.

Problem solved. System is saved.
You're on the right track, although I dont agree with the particulars. I have come to the conclusion that legislation will have to be part of the solution. If Congress carves an exception out of the anti trust laws, then a lot of issues can be resolved, and it won't require all of the measures you listed.

Your #5 is the primary reason we are in this mess with the anti trust laws: players have no other viable option to ply their trade. College Sports has been declared a "monopsony", which is like a monopoly, but it's where there is only one dominant customer who has all the power. So, they can't unfairly reduce the price of services.

I've been wondering, though, why college baseball is not exempt from these rulings? Baseball players have options. I know not all college baseball players have the option of playing minor league ball, but that's just because they aren't good enough, and baseball is not going to be their career.
 

QuadrupleOption

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Eh… if I had a nickel for every time we’ve all quit college football…

Eta: The teams will still represent the universities. The jerseys won’t change. Well… except maybe for the tiny patches or helmet decal that signifies their declared major. We’ll just have to endeavor to soldier on without those.
I'm really close to quitting it myself. It was bad enough back in the day when you only had to worry about players until signing day.

Now, 80% of our teams come from somewhere else and most of them won't be around next season anyway.