Vaccines - Greater Good or Curtailing Freedom?
- Thread starter CatDaddy4daWin
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(1) the flu vaccine is not even remotely comparable to the childhood vaccination schedule when it comes to the medical side of the issue
(2) from the social/legal side, lots of employers already require the flu shot
(2) from the social/legal side, lots of employers already require the flu shot
A) This is not a complete sentence and you left out an apostrophe, so you've tipped your hand a bit.
B) Unvaccinated children do put your child at risk. With measles for instance, they will be at risk until they get their first vaccine at 12 months. After that, they may still be at risk since the vaccines do not work for everyone. The health of our society relies on herd immunity.
C) Obviously, if we were in actual herd, your poor understanding of basic concepts would have led to an early death (if your stupid ancestors didn't die out before reproducing in the first place.) With your stock, society will now be subjected to your most likely dumb kids making even more stupid decisions (just like their dear old dad). So we'll all have to suffer some more. At some point the adults have to step in and tell idiots like you how the world works.
Joey, Look man, sorry my post offended you so much that you decided to blast my lineage. Maybe if your ignorant parents hadn;t been so soft on you, you'd be able to respond to someone with a different take than you without belittling.
I stated I had my children vaccinated, or did you bother to read that, probably not, you formed a hasty opinion, and decided to respond, tipped your hand a bit there.
My point was, and still is, 99% of all parents would get their children vaccinated. Many just don't like being told what to do by the government. I know thats ground breaking, and obviously shows my stupidity, but it's my opinion.
I stated I had my children vaccinated, or did you bother to read that, probably not, you formed a hasty opinion, and decided to respond, tipped your hand a bit there.
My point was, and still is, 99% of all parents would get their children vaccinated. Many just don't like being told what to do by the government. I know thats ground breaking, and obviously shows my stupidity, but it's my opinion.
If all vaccinations were 100% safe then mandating them would not be an issue for me but that isn't always the case. A few years ago I recall the government of Texas was requiring young girls to get some sort of shot that had some questionably, serious side effects. That IMO is wrong. A few years ago there were questions about the latest flu shot and some health care workers were refusing to take it. These things are not always crystal clear.
In the end, should government decide what's safe or should individuals? If an individual's decision not to have their children immunized results in a higher public health risk, should they still have that choice? Tough question to answer and I think you almost have to look at each situation individually.
In the end, should government decide what's safe or should individuals? If an individual's decision not to have their children immunized results in a higher public health risk, should they still have that choice? Tough question to answer and I think you almost have to look at each situation individually.
Unless of course that government is being run by those in the same political party for which I vote. In that case, "America.....love it or leave it!!!!!!"
Jamo, I don't think people should be forced to get the flu shot, and I think children should be vaccinated. As a parent, why wouldn't you get your kids shots?
Again, people don't like being told what to do when it comes to their children, thats the rub.
Again, people don't like being told what to do when it comes to their children, thats the rub.
I really don't care what people do or do not like. I care whether their poor decisions rise to the level of neglect.
IMO, vaccine deferment does rise to the level of neglect and should be treated as such. Religious and "philosophical" objections should not be recognized. Only medical contraindications.
It definitely dumbfounds me that a parent can be prosecuted for neglect if they consistently let their kid miss dentist appointments or school days, but they can go against every single medical organization's vax recommendations based on little or no knowledge.
Protection from measles and HepB >>> third grade
Protection from measles and HepB >>> third grade
Is there some kind of medical reason these vaccines can't be mixed in with the other drugs they put in the airplane contrails?
Valid question. We already do that with the meds that cause faghood and atheism, so I don't see why we couldn't do it with the MMR or HepB shots. Maybe those Pharma companies aren't willing to pay as much as the ACLU did?
The U.S. is one of if not the most vaccinated country in the world. Also, we are one of the most unhealthiest too. Now, some of the unhealthiest is do to diet and excersize and perhaps because of this we have to medicate/vaccinate alot. Geographical location and the viruses/diseases indigenous to the region could also contribute. But one has to wonder if big pharma has a hand in this as well. Afterall of the going back in forth about healthcare lately and some people saying it is money driven one can wonder.
^Avoiding viruses is not jut money driven. Measles kills 100k annually worldwide. That number was 5 times that just 10 years ago.
No surprise that warrior-cat is anti-vaccine.
And then you get this *******...
Some gems:
"Don't be mad at me for speaking the truth about vaccines," Wolfson said in a telephone interview with The Washington Post. "Be mad at yourself, because you're, frankly, a bad mother. You didn't ask once about those vaccines. You didn't ask about the chemicals in them. You didn't ask about all the harmful things in those vaccines . People need to learn the facts."
"We should be getting measles, mumps, rubella, chicken pox, these are the rights of our children to get it,"
"I'm a big fan of what's called paleo-nutrition, so our children eat foods that our ancestors have been eating for millions of years . That's the best way to protect."
He also hypothesized that mom's daughter got leukemia from vaccines.
And then you get this *******...
Some gems:
"Don't be mad at me for speaking the truth about vaccines," Wolfson said in a telephone interview with The Washington Post. "Be mad at yourself, because you're, frankly, a bad mother. You didn't ask once about those vaccines. You didn't ask about the chemicals in them. You didn't ask about all the harmful things in those vaccines . People need to learn the facts."
"We should be getting measles, mumps, rubella, chicken pox, these are the rights of our children to get it,"
"I'm a big fan of what's called paleo-nutrition, so our children eat foods that our ancestors have been eating for millions of years . That's the best way to protect."
He also hypothesized that mom's daughter got leukemia from vaccines.
Dude is a basket case. I read those articles the other day, btw I think that map is linked in that specific article showing the location and demographics of the clusters.
Also, according to the CDC these are the actual side effects of MMRV: (*Sorry original was the wrong vaccine)
MMRV vaccine side-effects
(Measles, Mumps, Rubella, and Varicella)[/B]What are the risks from MMRV vaccine?
A vaccine, like any medicine, is capable of causing serious problems, such as severe allergic reactions. The risk of MMRV vaccine causing serious harm, or death, is extremely small.
Getting MMRV vaccine is much safer than getting measles, mumps, rubella, or chickenpox.
Most children who get MMRV vaccine do not have any problems with it.
Mild Problems[/B]Fever (about 1 child out of 5).Mild rash (about 1 child out of 20).Swelling of glands in the cheeks or neck (rare).
If these problems happen, it is usually within 5-12 days after the first dose. They happen less often after the second dose.
Moderate Problems[/B]Seizure caused by fever (about 1 child in 1,250 who get MMRV), usually 5-12 days after the first dose. They happen less often when MMR and varicella vaccines are given at the same visit as separate shots (about 1 child in 2,500 who get these two vaccines), and rarely after a 2nd dose of MMRV.[/I]Temporary low platelet count, which can cause a bleeding disorder (about 1 child out of 40,000).
Severe Problems (Very Rare)[/B]
Several severe problems have been reported following MMR vaccine, and might also happen after MMRV. These include severe allergic reactions (fewer than 4 per million), and problems such as
eafness.Long-term seizures, coma, lowered consciousness.Permanent brain damage.
Because these problems occur so rarely, we can’t be sure whether they are caused by the vaccine or
This post was edited on 2/3 1:49 PM by anthonys735
Also, according to the CDC these are the actual side effects of MMRV: (*Sorry original was the wrong vaccine)
MMRV vaccine side-effects
(Measles, Mumps, Rubella, and Varicella)[/B]What are the risks from MMRV vaccine?
A vaccine, like any medicine, is capable of causing serious problems, such as severe allergic reactions. The risk of MMRV vaccine causing serious harm, or death, is extremely small.
Getting MMRV vaccine is much safer than getting measles, mumps, rubella, or chickenpox.
Most children who get MMRV vaccine do not have any problems with it.
Mild Problems[/B]Fever (about 1 child out of 5).Mild rash (about 1 child out of 20).Swelling of glands in the cheeks or neck (rare).
If these problems happen, it is usually within 5-12 days after the first dose. They happen less often after the second dose.
Moderate Problems[/B]Seizure caused by fever (about 1 child in 1,250 who get MMRV), usually 5-12 days after the first dose. They happen less often when MMR and varicella vaccines are given at the same visit as separate shots (about 1 child in 2,500 who get these two vaccines), and rarely after a 2nd dose of MMRV.[/I]Temporary low platelet count, which can cause a bleeding disorder (about 1 child out of 40,000).
Severe Problems (Very Rare)[/B]
Several severe problems have been reported following MMR vaccine, and might also happen after MMRV. These include severe allergic reactions (fewer than 4 per million), and problems such as
eafness.Long-term seizures, coma, lowered consciousness.Permanent brain damage.Because these problems occur so rarely, we can’t be sure whether they are caused by the vaccine or
This post was edited on 2/3 1:49 PM by anthonys735
Did not say I was anti vaccine. I just wondered if there was a correlation to how unhealthy we are and the fact that we are the most vaccinated country. Do you just accept everything you are told without question?
I question why the MMR shot cannot be given as three separate shots given one every 30 days
And before some of you start my children were vaccinated
And before some of you start my children were vaccinated
(1) did you block out memories of how your kids reacted to shots? or were they perfectly cooperative angels? and how many parents with multiple kids can schedule that many appointments and be counted upon to keep them?
(2) study after study has shown that vaccination coverage rates increase if combination shots are given. That's part of why they're combining MMR and varicella these days
First off I think kids should be vaccinated but I do think parents should have the freedom from the government to make that choice. I like a previous poster had my kids shots broken down and not all at once. You people that think the government has your best interest in mind are the ones who are retarded. $ is the name of the game! Without writing a book here there is evidence that says some of these shots are totally unnecessary and once again its all about the $.
With this sudden outbreak of measles which we have all but eradicated in this country should be how has this happened. The answer to that question is simply all the illegal aliens flooding our country. They are bringing all kinds of diseases and such with them here. That will never be the big story because its politically incorrect right now. Can't discriminate against anyone no matter what! Until this problem is fixed vaccinated or not this problem will only continue to get worse. Until more people in this country wake up and realize how big of a problem illegal immigration really is and its effects on our country this problem will only get worse in more ways than one! Its time to take our country back people. That goes for Democrats and Republicans.
With this sudden outbreak of measles which we have all but eradicated in this country should be how has this happened. The answer to that question is simply all the illegal aliens flooding our country. They are bringing all kinds of diseases and such with them here. That will never be the big story because its politically incorrect right now. Can't discriminate against anyone no matter what! Until this problem is fixed vaccinated or not this problem will only continue to get worse. Until more people in this country wake up and realize how big of a problem illegal immigration really is and its effects on our country this problem will only get worse in more ways than one! Its time to take our country back people. That goes for Democrats and Republicans.
The Obama Presidency has either exposed the deranged people or it deranged them.
The **** Americans have begun to worry about since 2009 is effing amazing.
This post was edited on 2/3 2:04 PM by buckethead1978
The **** Americans have begun to worry about since 2009 is effing amazing.
This post was edited on 2/3 2:04 PM by buckethead1978
The measles outbreak is centered primarily on middle american white people. Also California is one of the least vaccinated states with Mississippi being the most vaccinated. So I'm not sure this is directly attributed to illegals and poors. More like dumbasses that think they know more about medicine than doctors.
IF MY KIDS DONT GET BIT BY NO SNAKES ON SONDAY THAY SHO AS HELL WONT GHET BIT BY SUM DAMN POLEO OR MEEZULS.
It's been around since '98 and has been proven faked, false, and completely not true millions of times. The doctor that started the whole thing has had his medical license revoked and has become a "martyr" for this cause that sends us into the dark ages.
It's so disturbing to me that people still believe this garbage.
1. Confused on how vaccines make the US Gov't money.
2. Agree to a point. Foreigners are bringing in diseases. Many of the diseases we now cannot catch due to VACCINES.
Let's address this money argument because it's pretty flimsy (at best).
First, is Big Pharma making lots of profit on vaccines? Big Pharma is an industry built almost entirely on the 17 year monopoly of patents; it's why your generics are like 1/10 or less of the cost of the brand name. The bulk of vaccines (if not the entirety of the required ones) are no longer patent eligible. Even if the vaccines were patentable, more than one study has found profit margins are lower for the flu vaccine than for the industry as a whole. Not to mention the sale of the flu vaccine (never mind the profit) is about 0.3% of the pharmaceutical industry. I doubt it's much higher for other vaccines, especially since, unlike the flu vaccine, they're often one (or two) and done.
Second, this profit motive has to be enacted somehow by lobbying or some type of "push" for more vaccinations. That's not free (which dilutes the profit available). Nor does it seem to be worthwhile. Big Pharma knows 1) most are vaccinated, so not a lot of market capture available, 2) a lot of exemptions/refusals are religious (so, good luck with that) and 3) people have freedom sticks shoved so far up their anuses they refuse to use reason.
Three, even assuming that lobbying/pushing for more vaccinations is profitable despite small profits on vaccines and marginal returns on investment, that argument just points out a potential motive for the industry. It doesn't even show nefariousness; businesses are in business to make money. At best, that's circumstantial. It's not evidence of anything on its own, does not disprove the science behind vaccines, and does not advance a compelling reason to avoid vaccines.
So we have:
Argument Pro-Vaccination Anti-Vaccination
Motivation: Science and health of all Money (weak argument at best)? Freedom?
Freedom: of the child (and others) from your stupidity of the parent to act stupidly
Authorities: Scientists Jenny McCarthy, JFK Jr., now some politicians
Downside: Preventable death and illness Autism (debunked), loss of freedom?
I get the freedom argument in the abstract, but there are so many other issues for which it makes much more sense.
First, is Big Pharma making lots of profit on vaccines? Big Pharma is an industry built almost entirely on the 17 year monopoly of patents; it's why your generics are like 1/10 or less of the cost of the brand name. The bulk of vaccines (if not the entirety of the required ones) are no longer patent eligible. Even if the vaccines were patentable, more than one study has found profit margins are lower for the flu vaccine than for the industry as a whole. Not to mention the sale of the flu vaccine (never mind the profit) is about 0.3% of the pharmaceutical industry. I doubt it's much higher for other vaccines, especially since, unlike the flu vaccine, they're often one (or two) and done.
Second, this profit motive has to be enacted somehow by lobbying or some type of "push" for more vaccinations. That's not free (which dilutes the profit available). Nor does it seem to be worthwhile. Big Pharma knows 1) most are vaccinated, so not a lot of market capture available, 2) a lot of exemptions/refusals are religious (so, good luck with that) and 3) people have freedom sticks shoved so far up their anuses they refuse to use reason.
Three, even assuming that lobbying/pushing for more vaccinations is profitable despite small profits on vaccines and marginal returns on investment, that argument just points out a potential motive for the industry. It doesn't even show nefariousness; businesses are in business to make money. At best, that's circumstantial. It's not evidence of anything on its own, does not disprove the science behind vaccines, and does not advance a compelling reason to avoid vaccines.
So we have:
Argument Pro-Vaccination Anti-Vaccination
Motivation: Science and health of all Money (weak argument at best)? Freedom?
Freedom: of the child (and others) from your stupidity of the parent to act stupidly
Authorities: Scientists Jenny McCarthy, JFK Jr., now some politicians
Downside: Preventable death and illness Autism (debunked), loss of freedom?
I get the freedom argument in the abstract, but there are so many other issues for which it makes much more sense.
You also asked a hypothetical question that showed you had no understanding of the basic concept of the problem. That's what I was answering. See below:
Positing this question shows that you are an idiot (with a lack of general knowledge) and who should not be allowed to even have opinions on public health - let alone spew them.
Your new point is also wrong:
Your opinion is not fact. The measles vaccination rate is 92% last year. I'm sure numbers are hard for you (being an idiot an all) but that is too low (less than 99%).
We are trying to have a society here. Please stop putting your thoughts on a public forum for other simpletons to lap up.
Join a softball league and spend less time on forums. TIA.
Also, next time you want to impress us with highfalutin grammar, start by doing the little things correctly. Don't just throw commas around. It's not fooling anyone.
I don't mean to "belittle" you here. But, I wanted to hold up an example of the common idiot (not just Congress) that is endangering the populace daily. Today, you are that idiot.
This post was edited on 2/3 3:01 PM by Joey Rupption