Very easy question. What would you do?

[DvlDog4WVU]

I see a lot of people on the board saying we need common sense gun laws. Ok fine.

Please, each one of you take a minute and tell me what your solution would be. If you don't have an idea to offer, fine, just say I got nothing. I want to know what you would do if you were king for a day. According to most on the left, we have to do "something". What is it?

I'll hang up and take your answer

 

[WVPATX]

1. Mandatory minimum of 10 years if committing a felony while in possession of a gun.
2. Mandatory minimum of 5 years if searched and in possession of a firearm not legally acquired
3. Stop and frisk in high crime neighborhoods
4. Discourage gun free zones
5. Provide armed security in schools and other high target areas

 

[mule_eer]

I think it makes sense to close the background check loopholes - private sales and the subset of gun show sales that fall into that area. The private sale one is hard to police, so it may not be as effective as we might like.

I'm not keen on banning certain kinds of guns or anything like that. Someone determined can wreak havoc with a single-shot or a bolt action, if they know what they are doing. A good example of that would be a very old one, the Texas tower shooter. My opinion is that the 2nd amendment gives us the right to own guns. The SC has decided in the past that reasonable restrictions ae allowed - the main reason that most of us don't own howitzers. "Reasonable" has different meanings depending on the person, so that doesn't help the argument a lot. I don't think current restrictions are unreasonable, and I don't think closer checks on all purchases is unreasonable. We can never make ourselves completely safe, not as long as we want to maintain our current rights.

 

[TarHeelEer]

2. Mandatory minimum of 5 years if searched and in possession of a firearm not legally acquired

Define not legally acquired

 

[mule_eer]

1. Mandatory minimum of 10 years if committing a felony while in possession of a gun.
2. Mandatory minimum of 5 years if searched and in possession of a firearm not legally acquired
3. Stop and frisk in high crime neighborhoods
4. Discourage gun free zones
5. Provide armed security in schools and other high target areas

Our prisons are overcrowded now. I would also add that jail time is not a deterent for a nut like the one who was willing to die in a rampage like the guy in Oregon. Most of the folks committing these crimes are willing to die in the process of committing them. Several in thepast have even killed themselves rather than surrender.

Stop and frisk is a violation of the 4th amendment. Are you in favor of upholding the Constitution or just the parts that fit your argument?

Armed security isn't free, so taht's an additional cost to schools and high target areas. Also, do you shift the target areas by only providing this level of secruity in some places?

 

[Airport]

1. Allow for the force detention of people who are unstable for evaluation. We have to insulate health care professionals from any repercussions for doing this.
2. Do 1, then we can start to get serious.
3. Stop and frisk in all major cities.

 

[WVPATX]

Define not legally acquired

Guns that are stolen
Guns acquired through straw purchases. Mandatory minimum for the straw purchaser.
Illegal street dealers
Corrupt gun dealers who sell firearms illegally

 

[TarHeelEer]

I see a lot of people on the board saying we need common sense gun laws. Ok fine.

Please, each one of you take a minute and tell me what your solution would be. If you don't have an idea to offer, fine, just say I got nothing. I want to know what you would do if you were king for a day. According to most on the left, we have to do "something". What is it?

I'll hang up and take your answer

Only so much you can do with laws. Most of these killers have obtained their guns legally

1) Limit gun free zones
2) Allow those w/ CCL to carry on school/work premises.
A lot of these shooters have been on anti-psychotic medicines. Something needs done there.

Otherwise, we need a society that cherishes life, even their own, more than we do now. This is the worst part of the secularization of America.

 

[WVPATX]

Our prisons are overcrowded now. I would also add that jail time is not a deterent for a nut like the one who was willing to die in a rampage like the guy in Oregon. Most of the folks committing these crimes are willing to die in the process of committing them. Several in thepast have even killed themselves rather than surrender.

Stop and frisk is a violation of the 4th amendment. Are you in favor of upholding the Constitution or just the parts that fit your argument?

Armed security isn't free, so taht's an additional cost to schools and high target areas. Also, do you shift the target areas by only providing this level of secruity in some places?

Most people killed are not killed in tragedies like yesterday. They are killed on the streets of Chicago and other major U.S. cities. Jails are crowded. How much are lives worth to you? Stop and frisk needs to be settled by the Supreme Court. It works. Let the SC decide on its legality.

As for armed security, it is an additional cost. Again, what are lives worth to you? The cost should be borne by the institution. We have a lot more cost to society because of terrorism but we have decided as a country that we are willing to pay that price.

The college yesterday had one security guard on duty and he was unarmed.

 

[mule_eer]

Only so much you can do with laws. Most of these killers have obtained their guns legally

1) Limit gun free zones
2) Allow those w/ CCL to carry on school/work premises.
A lot of these shooters have been on anti-psychotic medicines. Something needs done there.

Otherwise, we need a society that cherishes life, even their own, more than we do now. This is the worst part of the secularization of America.

You can respect life and not be religious. You can be religious and not respect life, or certain lives. I think your earlier point strikes at the problem more clearly, armed insane people are a problem, irrespective of any religious beliefs they may hold.

 

[WhiteTailEER]

I see a lot of people on the board saying we need common sense gun laws. Ok fine.

Please, each one of you take a minute and tell me what your solution would be. If you don't have an idea to offer, fine, just say I got nothing. I want to know what you would do if you were king for a day. According to most on the left, we have to do "something". What is it?

I'll hang up and take your answer

1) close the private sale loophole and enforce background checks (I'm not sure how much that will help, but I can tell you that if I wanted a gun I could probably get one within 1/2 hour with no checks)

2) make sentences more severe and mandatory for crimes committed with fire arms (this doesn't affect the responsible gun owners one bit, but makes things rougher for the others)

3) If a minor gets a fire arm and commits a crime, the sentence applies to the parents (maybe parents will be more careful to keep things safely stored)

4) If you have concealed carry and your firearm accidentally discharges in public, you lose gun ownership privileges.

Just a few thoughts I've had ... don't know if any of them would be effective or not.

 

[Mntneer]

1) close the private sale loophole and enforce background checks (I'm not sure how much that will help, but I can tell you that if I wanted a gun I could probably get one within 1/2 hour with no checks)

2) make sentences more severe and mandatory for crimes committed with fire arms (this doesn't affect the responsible gun owners one bit, but makes things rougher for the others)

3) If a minor gets a fire arm and commits a crime, the sentence applies to the parents (maybe parents will be more careful to keep things safely stored)

4) If you have concealed carry and your firearm accidentally discharges in public, you lose gun ownership privileges.

Just a few thoughts I've had ... don't know if any of them would be effective or not.

Gotta disagree with #4. I'm no fan of negligent discharges, but they do happen, and in some cases happen to law enforcement. Can't say I'd support stripping someone of their rights over that.

 

[WhiteTailEER]

Gotta disagree with #4. I'm no fan of negligent discharges, but they do happen, and in some cases happen to law enforcement. Can't say I'd support stripping someone of their rights over that.

I understand your point and the exact incident that made me think of it was the guy's gun going off in a church. To me, if somebody isn't responsible enough to keep that from happening, then they shouldn't be carrying one around.

 

[DvlDog4WVU]

1) close the private sale loophole and enforce background checks (I'm not sure how much that will help, but I can tell you that if I wanted a gun I could probably get one within 1/2 hour with no checks)

2) make sentences more severe and mandatory for crimes committed with fire arms (this doesn't affect the responsible gun owners one bit, but makes things rougher for the others)

3) If a minor gets a fire arm and commits a crime, the sentence applies to the parents (maybe parents will be more careful to keep things safely stored)

4) If you have concealed carry and your firearm accidentally discharges in public, you lose gun ownership privileges.

Just a few thoughts I've had ... don't know if any of them would be effective or not.

#1 seems great in theory. Are you telling me that I can't sale or gift a firearm to one of my close friends whom was an Army Ranger and competitive pistol shooter? What about giving one to my children?

#2 agreed. Does nothing for prevention though.

3. Really? Charging someone for a crime they didn't commit? No way that would hold if it went to the SCOTUS.

4. Agreed.

 

[WVUCOOPER]

I see a lot of people on the board saying we need common sense gun laws. Ok fine.

Please, each one of you take a minute and tell me what your solution would be. If you don't have an idea to offer, fine, just say I got nothing. I want to know what you would do if you were king for a day. According to most on the left, we have to do "something". What is it?

I'll hang up and take your answer

Legalize prostitution.

 

[DvlDog4WVU]

I see a lot of people on the board saying we need common sense gun laws. Ok fine.

Please, each one of you take a minute and tell me what your solution would be. If you don't have an idea to offer, fine, just say I got nothing. I want to know what you would do if you were king for a day. According to most on the left, we have to do "something". What is it?

I'll hang up and take your answer

I'll take a crack at this:

1. All states become Shall Carry
2. Mandatory gun education in school beginning in second grade
3. Allow teachers the option to carry and provide state/county funding for the training and proficiency
4. Open carry
5. Remove gun free zones to include Gov't property
6. Background checks on new purchases
7. Wait periods increased to 2 weeks
8. Begin to come up with some guidelines on working with mentally ill (soooooooo broad and delicate here that you have to devil's advocate the hell out of it)
9. Acknowledge there are inherent risks to freedoms and this is one of them.
10. Acknowledge you can't stop crazy.

 

[Airport]

The mental illness is the big one. That's where the crazies aren't restrained enough. Parents still aren't going to want to report their children. Sandy hook and va tech proves that

 

[WhiteTailEER]

#1 seems great in theory. Are you telling me that I can't sale or gift a firearm to one of my close friends whom was an Army Ranger and competitive pistol shooter? What about giving one to my children?

#2 agreed. Does nothing for prevention though.

3. Really? Charging someone for a crime they didn't commit? No way that would hold if it went to the SCOTUS.

4. Agreed.

1) Yeah, I know ... those situations are where it gets sticky. I think the family one should be fairly easy, but the friends one could be easily abused. How about no advertising in CraigsList or the bulletin board or whatever for private party sales?

3) Dog owners can get charged if their dogs attack or maul somebody. I don't see how this would be much different. There are also civil liabilities regarding negligence in these instances. You have somebody/something you are responsible for and something that you should have taken precautions to make sure didn't happen ... that happens.

5) somebody else mentioned anti-psychotic drugs, so I would add that to the list as well. If you are diagnosed with whatever condition would require that, then you're on the list to not own a weapon

 

[Mntneer]

I'll take a crack at this:

1. All states become Shall Carry
2. Mandatory gun education in school beginning in second grade
3. Allow teachers the option to carry and provide state/county funding for the training and proficiency
4. Open carry
5. Remove gun free zones to include Gov't property
6. Background checks on new purchases
7. Wait periods increased to 2 weeks
8. Begin to come up with some guidelines on working with mentally ill (soooooooo broad and delicate here that you have to devil's advocate the hell out of it)
9. Acknowledge there are inherent risks to freedoms and this is one of them.
10. Acknowledge you can't stop crazy.

While we're at it.
11. Eliminate the need for a Form 4 to purchase a Suppressor.

We so need more in terms of education that it's absurd. My kids have heard me repeat the 4 rules since they first picked up a Nerf gun. They understand the permanent nature of a gun, and are learning to respect it for what it is.

I picked up my youngest at school yesterday (5th grade, and he had an after school meeting). Being the law abiding individual I am I had to remove my concealed weapon, lock it in the car and proceed into the school without it. Not a single student in that school was any more safe because I did, however the emotional among us would want us to think they were.

 

[WhiteTailEER]

I'll take a crack at this:

1. All states become Shall Carry
2. Mandatory gun education in school beginning in second grade
3. Allow teachers the option to carry and provide state/county funding for the training and proficiency
4. Open carry
5. Remove gun free zones to include Gov't property
6. Background checks on new purchases
7. Wait periods increased to 2 weeks
8. Begin to come up with some guidelines on working with mentally ill (soooooooo broad and delicate here that you have to devil's advocate the hell out of it)
9. Acknowledge there are inherent risks to freedoms and this is one of them.
10. Acknowledge you can't stop crazy.

I think a lot of these will help with these mass shootings ... but I would have concerns about there being more incidents of heated arguments or altercations ending in shootings. Every idiot with road rage has a gun? Think of the guy that shot somebody in the theater for throwing popcorn at him ... things like that.

Or maybe I'm not understanding what you're getting at exactly.

9 and 10 ... yeah. And I said in another thread that maybe the answer is just that are freedoms are worth the inherent risks associated and that's actually an answer I can live with.

 

[WhiteTailEER]

Being the law abiding individual I am I had to remove my concealed weapon, lock it in the car and proceed into the school without it. Not a single student in that school was any more safe because I did, however the emotional among us would want us to think they were.

That's a very valid point. Some of the stuff gets a little ridiculous.

 

[DvlDog4WVU]

The mental illness is the big one. That's where the crazies aren't restrained enough. Parents still aren't going to want to report their children. Sandy hook and va tech proves that

I agree, but then you get into what qualifies as crazy? I mean we all jump in our minds eye to scenes from 12 Monkeys or One Flew Over the Cuckoos Nest. Those people are obviously insane. However, those aren't the people committing this type of ****. It's the average run of the mill whacko that most of us probably have 1-3 of in our family ranks. I know I do, I guarantee 3 of my in laws are bi-polar and at least 2 more are clinically narcissistic. They are your normal neighbors but every now and then, they forget meds and its off to the races. How do you police that? I guarantee that if we start trying to legislate things for those people the very people clamoring for this **** are going to scream for the ACLU.

The only answer is to eliminate guns and change the constitution. People always want to point out the absurdity of the position of the NRA and how they jump to the extreme. I contend they know more than we do and know for a fact the only way to do what people want is to change the constitution. I further assert they take that stance because at every piece of legislation we write, we'll find it doesn't work, then we'll write more and give up more freedom, rinse/repeat a couple of dozen times until eventually someone says, why don't we just rid ourselves of them altogether? It's human nature to want to try and not feel helpless and to try and do something when this stuff happens. Sadly, it's always happened and will always continue to happen. If guns aren't the tool, something else will be. And as a father of 2 young girls, it drives me insane to think there are areas where I am prohibited from even being given the option to protect them and myself. You talk about insanity? That to me is insane.

 

[mneilmont]

I see a lot of people on the board saying we need common sense gun laws. Ok fine.

Please, each one of you take a minute and tell me what your solution would be. If you don't have an idea to offer, fine, just say I got nothing. I want to know what you would do if you were king for a day. According to most on the left, we have to do "something". What is it?

I'll hang up and take your answer

1. Have every gun that leaves rifling be fired and FBI maintain a system similar to fingerprint. When the gun changes hands, have a change of ownership similar to sale of vehicle. Any loss of weapon must be reported within 10 days.

2. Restore hard labor element to sentencing when death can an alternate sentence.

3. Demand some type mentality test for those who are afraid government has too much info and
and can trace ownership in case we become dictator government.

 

[DvlDog4WVU]

1. Have every gun that leaves rifling be fired and FBI maintain a system similar to fingerprint. When the gun changes hands, have a change of ownership similar to sale of vehicle. Any loss of weapon must be reported within 10 days.

2. Restore hard labor element to sentencing when death can an alternate sentence.

3. Demand some type mentality test for those who are afraid government has too much info and
and can trace ownership in case we become dictator government.

#1 already happens to my knowledge

 

[DvlDog4WVU]

I think a lot of these will help with these mass shootings ... but I would have concerns about there being more incidents of heated arguments or altercations ending in shootings. Every idiot with road rage has a gun? Think of the guy that shot somebody in the theater for throwing popcorn at him ... things like that.

Or maybe I'm not understanding what you're getting at exactly.

9 and 10 ... yeah. And I said in another thread that maybe the answer is just that are freedoms are worth the inherent risks associated and that's actually an answer I can live with.

I agree, I think increased killings over heated arguments will likely increase. So? Doesn't bother me in the least. It won't be me on either end of that situation. I'm not in favor of legislating a nanny state. Personal responsibility and accountability. Maybe people will become more respectful of each other. An armed society is a polite society kind of thing.

 

[WhiteTailEER]

I further assert they take that stance because at every piece of legislation we write, we'll find it doesn't work, then we'll write more and give up more freedom, rinse/repeat a couple of dozen times until eventually someone says, why don't we just rid ourselves of them altogether? It's human nature to want to try and not feel helpless and to try and do something when this stuff happens. Sadly, it's always happened and will always continue to happen

Some very good points. People frequently jump to the argument of if we give them an inch they will eventually take a mile. I don't really think that will happen, but can also see how it might.

It's always happened ... has it? I mean this seems like it's getting ridiculous. Columbine was extreme and got people talking because things like that just didn't happen. Now it seems there are multiple similar events per year. I don't think it's ever happened with the frequency we're experiencing now.

It's a problem, but it might be a problem without a solution ... unless we get technology involved. Forget about the cost for a second, but picture a gun that can be electronically locked out. Schools, churches, whatever are equipped with things that emit a frequency that would disable the firing of a gun. Private sale guns have a different frequency than law enforcement, so that law enforcement guns don't get disabled.

I don't know if something like that is feasible either ... I'm sure there are plenty that can shoot all kinds of holes in my idea, but I haven't given any thought. The idea was coming as I was typing it.

 

[WhiteTailEER]

I agree, I think increased killings over heated arguments will likely increase. So? Doesn't bother me in the least. It won't be me on either end of that situation.

Maybe, maybe not. People fly off the handle over simple **** all the time. Maybe you cut somebody off in traffic accidentally. Step on their toe in line at the convenience store. Seems there are just a lot of people that are too hot headed and irrational to be having a gun.

Again, I don't have any kind of answer, so I'm not saying we can even do anything about it, just thoughts that I have.

 

[DvlDog4WVU]

Some very good points. People frequently jump to the argument of if we give them an inch they will eventually take a mile. I don't really think that will happen, but can also see how it might.

It's always happened ... has it? I mean this seems like it's getting ridiculous. Columbine was extreme and got people talking because things like that just didn't happen. Now it seems there are multiple similar events per year. I don't think it's ever happened with the frequency we're experiencing now.

It's a problem, but it might be a problem without a solution ... unless we get technology involved. Forget about the cost for a second, but picture a gun that can be electronically locked out. Schools, churches, whatever are equipped with things that emit a frequency that would disable the firing of a gun. Private sale guns have a different frequency than law enforcement, so that law enforcement guns don't get disabled.

I don't know if something like that is feasible either ... I'm sure there are plenty that can shoot all kinds of holes in my idea, but I haven't given any thought. The idea was coming as I was typing it.

Charles Whitmore

 

[DvlDog4WVU]

Maybe, maybe not. People fly off the handle over simple **** all the time. Maybe you cut somebody off in traffic accidentally. Step on their toe in line at the convenience store. Seems there are just a lot of people that are too hot headed and irrational to be having a gun.

Again, I don't have any kind of answer, so I'm not saying we can even do anything about it, just thoughts that I have.

As I've said, I think every should have a gun. I don't think everyone is responsible enough to own a gun.

 

[mneilmont]

#1 already happens to my knowledge

I knew it did for officers, but not sure about general population. And, I do not think there is a system in place for tracing the gun until it is disposed of. Not sure though.

 

[DvlDog4WVU]

I knew it did for officers, but not sure about general population. And, I do not think there is a system in place for tracing the gun until it is disposed of. Not sure though.

Every pistol I have bought since I got out of the Marine Corps was provided to me with a shell casing from where it was fired by the FBI to catalogue the guns "fingerprint".

As to your second point, and this may be a Maryland thing, not sure. One of my close friends was bequeathed a pistol from his best friend. He consulted someone about registering the firearm and they said there was no possible way for him to re-register it in his name. He also isn't sure where his friend got said gun whether it be through original purchase or gunshow etc. You have a situation where the individual is trying to do the right thing and get a paper trail established on this firearm and is being told he cannot by the Gov't. Are you kidding me?

You can obviously tell I am very passionate about firearms and the legislature of them restricting our personal freedoms and rights. I'm not opposed to common sense approaches, but the stuff I see people throw out there as options have not been thought through any more than the President's halfcocked speech yesterday. There are no easy answers short of eliminating firearms altogether and that will never be allowed to happen.

 

[mneilmont]

Every pistol I have bought since I got out of the Marine Corps was provided to me with a shell casing from where it was fired by the FBI to catalogue the guns "fingerprint".

As to your second point, and this may be a Maryland thing, not sure. One of my close friends was bequeathed a pistol from his best friend. He consulted someone about registering the firearm and they said there was no possible way for him to re-register it in his name. He also isn't sure where his friend got said gun whether it be through original purchase or gunshow etc. You have a situation where the individual is trying to do the right thing and get a paper trail established on this firearm and is being told he cannot by the Gov't. Are you kidding me?

You can obviously tell I am very passionate about firearms and the legislature of them restricting our personal freedoms and rights. I'm not opposed to common sense approaches, but the stuff I see people throw out there as options have not been thought through any more than the President's halfcocked speech yesterday. There are no easy answers short of eliminating firearms altogether and that will never be allowed to happen.

For sure. It is engrained in WVian's from childhood. It would be difficult to live in a country that didn't allow firearms. At the same time, I do not see the application for an uzi in our daily life

 

[torontoeers]

I don't visit the OT board frequently and some of you may appreciate my perspective, some may not care to hear it at all , and that is fine by me....but I will take a stab...

Look North...
I do not own a firearm, but several of my hunting friends do and I have zero problem with it...in fact I eat some pretty damn good venison (both deer and moose), because of it lol...the guns they have are longarms. Handguns , any sort of semi automatic or automatic are banned here , unless you have a very specific permit which allows you to store at home under lock and key unloaded or at your gun range. If you are a handgun owner (very few), and you want to transport from range to home etc you must take out a separate permit to do so...none of my friends has any issue with the current reg's, they feel them to be worthwhile and necessary.
I feel quite safe every day I walk out my front door and when I hit the hay...and I work in a metro area of more than 7 million people, with plenty of Muslims, crazy people, gangs and neglected inner city neighborhood's...

Here are some stats links for those that are interested. IMO they don't lie...by my count the homicide by gun death rate is roughly 5 or 6 to 1.

Also my sincerest condolences to all American's for the tragedy in Oregon...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate
http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/Canada/United-States/Crime
http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2012/jul/22/gun-homicides-ownership-world-list

 

[MountaineerWV]

1. Mandatory minimum of 10 years if committing a felony while in possession of a gun.
2. Mandatory minimum of 5 years if searched and in possession of a firearm not legally acquired
3. Stop and frisk in high crime neighborhoods
4. Discourage gun free zones
5. Provide armed security in schools and other high target areas

So, basically, BIG GOVERNMENT? Because that's what is will take to do what you put out there. We will hear about tax increases. Why? Because we will need more prison space. But, I'm sure you will be the first to ***** about the taxes and the fact that the government (under the Democrats) are making this nation seem like a police state by frisking and searching.

Is there a solution? Maybe, maybe not. I'm not thinking rational enough to come up with one right now. Too emotional about these type of events. Being that I have children and they are in schools that I don't feel are truly "safe" makes me pissed off. Not at the school systems. They can't afford it. Not at the government (as a whole), because their hands are tied. But at the gun lobbyists who continue funneling money in to the pockets to hush people up from even attempting to figure out what's going on.....yes!

 

[DvlDog4WVU]

So, basically, BIG GOVERNMENT? Because that's what is will take to do what you put out there. We will hear about tax increases. Why? Because we will need more prison space. But, I'm sure you will be the first to ***** about the taxes and the fact that the government (under the Democrats) are making this nation seem like a police state by frisking and searching.

Is there a solution? Maybe, maybe not. I'm not thinking rational enough to come up with one right now. Too emotional about these type of events. Being that I have children and they are in schools that I don't feel are truly "safe" makes me pissed off. Not at the school systems. They can't afford it. Not at the government (as a whole), because their hands are tied. But at the gun lobbyists who continue funneling money in to the pockets to hush people up from even attempting to figure out what's going on.....yes!

I have two daughters in grade school, I don't share your thoughts. I agree there is a problem, we just arrive at different conclusions on how to handle it.

 

[dave]

There are few mass shootings in canada because it is so damn cold. Hard to reload wearing gloves.

 

[torontoeers]

There are few mass shootings in canada because it is so damn cold. Hard to reload wearing gloves.

Lol...yes point taken Dave...I am hoping that my next venture down for TT is on the warmer side in Motown...I'm lookin for 50 degrees and some sun...

 

[dave]

Lol...yes point taken Dave...I am hoping that my next venture down for TT is on the warmer side in Motown...I'm lookin for 50 degrees and some sun...

Its been 70s minimum since spring until yesterday. It didnt get out of the 50s. Its been a weird year.

 

[torontoeers]

Its been 70s minimum since spring until yesterday. It didnt get out of the 50s. Its been a weird year.

Georgia Southern was too damned hot for me...Maryland wknd was PERFECT weather wise...TT is a boys trip so the wife won't have a chance to complain....
I can't remember if it was last year or the year before we came down very early Oct, and I told the wife 'It's early October! The weather will be great!....'...It was in the high 30's lol...oh the whining...however I give her credit, she wears gold and blue strong, through thick and thin....

 

[wvu2007]

What were the gun laws 30 years ago? What were the number of mass shootings 30 years ago?