Was looking at the Northwestern message board...

[CadaverDawg]

After looking at the team comparisons, they feel pretty confident that we will throw the ball easily against them, and that they will run it easily against us. It is so strange to see a team outside of the SEC feel confident about running on a MSU defense....and probably being right about that assumption. This is the primary reason that I think we need a change at DC. I hate to bring that up again, and I'm not trying to start another "why our defense sucks" thread, but in my lifetime there is a few things you can always count on....1) Death 2) Taxes 3) MSU can stop the run and play physical D. I really hope we can go in to Jacksonville with a plan to shut down their ground game and follow through with it.

I know there's still 27 days til game day, but I'd love to hear some of your thoughts on this match up. Is there anywhere we can go online to watch a few of their games? I figure Coach57 would be interested in watching some film and breaking it down for us. What do you guys think? What would a win do for your thoughts on Mullen, Wilson, and this season? What about a loss?

This has been one of the stranger years of MSU football that I can remember. You look at our record and think we should be on cloud nine, but the way we lost and the lack of good teams we beat, leaves you feeling a little up in the air about the season.

Link: http://northwestern.rivals.com/showmsg.asp?fid=57&tid=181959994&mid=181959994&sid=901&style=2

ETA: And what is that MSU fan, DCC talking about when he says "we haven't faced a team that runs it like you guys"? Is he talking about the style in which they run it? Because we have definitely played better running teams than Northwestern...have we not?

 

[chew1095]

I know what the spread is and I am well aware of how shitastic the defense has been all year, but I will be HIGHLY disappointed in anything less than a convincing win. We should out-athlete this team at damn near every position on the field.

 

[MaronMatters]

We SHOULD out-athlete them, but emotionally speaking, that is what I'm worried about. The entire team, coaches and players, have been missing something this year. I get the vibe that they just don't give a crap.

 

[InaccuratePredictionsDawg]

Since UN plays literally every Sat. morning...

..on ESPN @ 11am, I have seen them play. They are well-coached but they play a brand of football I'm not used to watching. They execute with a discipline above what you see in the SEC, but they don't have SEC-caliber athletes. They play 2 QB's & both are effective. Since our defense is soft, I can see the UN QB's taking advantage. Our only chance is physically overwhelming them. Because they play a mental style of football that is foreign to MSU.

 

[CadaverDawg]

From the "first look at MSU" thread on that same board....

wrestlerone Post #7269 MyFanPage Add Buddy Ignore

Re: A first look at Mississippi State Reply <tbody> </tbody> They won't be able to stop our offense. That is where we are stronger, for sure! I'm glad we play them and not Georgia!

<tbody>
</tbody>

 

[CadaverDawg]

..on ESPN @ 11am, I have seen them play. They are well-coached but they play a brand of football I'm not used to watching. They execute with a discipline above what you see in the SEC, but they don't have SEC-caliber athletes. They play 2 QB's & both are effective. Since our defense is soft, I can see the UN QB's taking advantage. Our only chance is physically overwhelming them. Because they play a mental style of football that is foreign to MSU.

What do you mean by "mental style"? Is it a spread running attack that relies on a lot of reading the defensive ends, etc?

 

[patdog]

I would guess they're right about that. As far as what a win or a loss would do for Mullen, Wilson and the season, I think this is one of the most important bowl games we've had. Lose and this season is a big disappointement with no quality wins and finishing losing 5 of our last 6 games. Win and we're 9-4 with a quality win and salvage something from the season.

 

[chew1095]

I agree. The team just looked different, and really more indifferent, the last half of the season, save for Ar Kansas, which was probably our most complete game all year.

 

[chew1095]

A win and Fitzgerald probably loses his job, just like every other non Sun Belt and non SWAC HC Mullen beat this year...****

 

[DancingRabbit]

There are 3 or 4 of their games listed on ESPN3

Here's a link to their game against Michigan

http://espn.go.com/watchespn/player/_/source/espn3/id/639517/size/condensed/

 

[InaccuratePredictionsDawg]

I mean...

...they keep their heads in the game mentally & seldom make mental mistakes. You know, kinda the opposite of MSU. Their 2 QB's are not that talented, but they are smart. That's why they are so effective.

 

[rabiddawg]

We seriously over preformed the last time we went to Jxnville. I hope this time is no different. But we seriously need a Chris White type dude to step up

 

[CadaverDawg]

Thanks DR. I was also able to find several highlight videos of their games from this year on YouTube...Search for "Northwestern football 2012". They have Vandy, Boston College, Michigan, and a few others. They run a Relf coast offense with a small speedy QB rather than a big bruiser like Relf, it appears. Is that what you guys are seeing?

 

[CadaverDawg]

...they keep their heads in the game mentally & seldom make mental mistakes. You know, kinda the opposite of MSU. Their 2 QB's are not that talented, but they are smart. That's why they are so effective.

Gotcha. I see what you mean in some of their game videos.

 

[BiscuitEater]

with ...

27 days to prep, there is 'no excuse' to be prepared offensively or defensively for this team. This is a huge chance for Wilson to show he can 'adjust' to an opponent. Also, with this much time to prep, hope we have two QBs ready to run the O for this game.

Gator bowl win over Mich was a very well coached game & would like to see that kind of performance again on both sides.

 

[BiscuitEater]

Last time ...

I know what the spread is and I am well aware of how shitastic the defense has been all year, but I will be HIGHLY disappointed in anything less than a convincing win. We should out-athlete this team at damn near every position on the field.

entering a bowl game where I was really confident we would "out-athelete" the other bowl team was in the '91 Liberty Bowl disaster against Air Force. I was absolutely positive we could handle those guys on both sides of the line.

 

[thunderclap]

27 days to prep, there is 'no excuse' to be prepared offensively or defensively for this team. This is a huge chance for Wilson to show he can 'adjust' to an opponent. Also, with this much time to prep, hope we have two QBs ready to run the O for this game.

Gator bowl win over Mich was a very well coached game & would like to see that kind of performance again on both sides.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say a leopard can't change its spots. As others have stated, something is wrong with the players and coaches, just indifferent and lack of aggression, etc. I 17ing hate it. Im gonna go ahead and expect another two quarters of decent play, and two quarters asleep as the wheel, in no particular order.

 

[Coach 57]

Offensively they're very similar to USA. They run a 2 qb system with the primary focus on the running game. They're 14th in the nation averaging 230 yds a contest and 166 yds passing per contest as well. They have a back in Venric Mark who has 1300+yds this yr and 11 TDs. Couple of things to consider before we delve into what we should see on offense & defense in order to prevail.

Kain Colter (qb rushing threat) avg 13 car 68yds rushing per game
Venric Mark (RB) avg 17 car 109yds rushing per game
Trevor Siemian (passing qb) avg 10 pass att per game *** (4 games with 15 or more att)

Mark is alot like Jeff Scott. Very FAST out of his cuts and runs the draw with perfection! He can expose our young MLB if he's slightly out of position in his gaps. He hits the "A" gap hard as hell!

Now this is what I see:

Defensive plan of attack:


When Colter is in what I would do (this won't be a popular notion) go to our "prowler/predator" sets and take the pressure off our DEs and ESPECIALLY off of our young MLB. Allow Cam and Deonte to be read as they have the atheletic ability to slide better than a DE. Slow play them off the edges to prevent outside containment breakouts and bring McKinney/Bohanna inside & force him to throw. Let our draft pick CBs to play man to man (don't move Banks around when Colter is in the game keep him outside) and try to move themselves up in the draft order with great 1on1 play. Do NOT blitz the CB in this game if Colter is in as he has exposed defenses all yr with this look. Let you LBs get after him. I would say take Cherry out and make sure he doesn't play but it's not going to happen so I won't go there.

When Siemian is in the game, stay in your base 4 down line set and make sure the inside DL keep their feet movingand don't get down blocked. Throw in some stunts (as Wilson will do anyway) and make sure my MLB knows his assignment on EVERY play when Siemian is in the game (they're gonna run draw with Siemian in the backfired). Beware the screen. If your a DE and the T doesn't block you pick you 17ing eyes up and read the G beside him he's telling you where the play is going!
And lastly for the love of all things maroon and white BREAK 17ing DOWN and drive through your hips when you tackle ! I always tell my kids at the end of the yr I know who tackled correctly by looking at thier helmet. If scars are in the top you don't know what 17 your doing. I want scars on the face mask and on the hairline of the helmet! That means your looking at what you hit!


Offensive plan of attack

Their CBs can be exposed WITH combination routes and PA (play action) but in order for that to happen we.MUST be able to run the football with WHOEVER! OL I'm pulling on your "manhood"card. If you can block we WILL win this game it's THAT simple!

Malcolm has the potential to have a nice day. They've struggled with covering the TE on the seam route.

 

[karlchilders.sixpack]

Don't think this will be an easy game!

The betting lines say it will be tight, and I suspect it will.

They did beat Vandy, and Vandy ain't that bad. (5-3 SEC)

This talk about out mental side...has me slightly worried.

 

[boatsandhoes]

very nice 57. +2

 

[Coach 57]

The betting lines say it will be tight, and I suspect it will.

They did beat Vandy, and Vandy ain't that bad. (5-3 SEC)

This talk about out mental side...has me slightly worried.

They beat Vandy before they got rolling. It's like UM saying they hung in there with aTm. Is it true....yeah, but the aTm team that knocked Bama upside the head and rolled em in the alley is NOT the same team that played in Oxford in early October either.

They played Vandy in what Sept? That ain't the same team that made UM cry in November. Here we go with this worrying nailbiting **** again.

 

[CadaverDawg]

Nice breakdown 57. If you had their offense, what would you do to attack our defense in hopes of beating us? What would you look at as our biggest defensive weaknesses? It worries the **** out of me that they run a lot of read and react plays, especially the way we played the run this year.

I agree that if we run the ball we win. That being said, do you see a scat back like Perkins having better success against their D, or a bruiser like Griffin? They seem solid against the run, but do you see any weak spots?

 

[Coach 57]

If I was their OC what would I do to expose MSU's defense? Easy. I wouldn't play the Siemian kid at all. I'd do just what UM did to us. I would give my offense the first 9 plays and go completely no huddle and uptempo to exposed MLB. And honestly I'd go right after Banks on the PA. And I'd run the short to intermediate passing game (crossers, sticks, slants) that don't give the DBs something they can "jump" on. In the end there are really just two kinds of coaches. Those that evolve and those that don't. The ones that don't hinge their success on the 5* kids (ala Saban, Miles). And then those that do evolve can conform their offense to shape the personnel (ala Sumlin). But you can't be a coach that doesn't evolve his scheme around his personnel and STILL be successful for a stretch of time without getting your pick of the litter of recruits. And (in our case on offense) you can't half *** you evolution either. It's like a light switch with 2 options it's either on or off.

 

[Tds &amp; Beer]

second game of the season. Vandy definitely wasn't the same team.

 

[karlchilders.sixpack]

So are you saying we will roll over them?

So far you have not covinced me not to be concerned.

I'm sticking with the bookies for now. Close game, would love to be wrong.

 

[RocketDawg]

Northwestern wins this year: Syracuse, Vanderbilt, Boston College, South Dakota, Indiana, Iowa, Michigan State, and Illinois.

Northwestern losses this year: Penn State, Nebraska, and Michigan.

None of their wins is a "quality" win ... they were basically against cupcakes except Vanderbilt and Michigan State. And Vanderbilt got a lot better as the season progressed.

And each of their losses was a "big" loss. The one good thing for them is that each of the losses was very close ... they weren't far from 12-0. But most of their wins were quite close too, and they weren't very good teams.

None of this means they're a bad team, but it doesn't mean that they're very good either. They have not played an SEC schedule or an SEC team. We might get throttled by them, but it won't be because they're an outstanding team.

I thought one of the comments that someone below posted was a bit humorous ... "sure am glad we're not playing Georgia" or something to that effect. And ... yeah, they should be glad. They're not in the same league with Georgia, and maybe not even in the same league as us.

High quality academic schools seldom have good football teams, Stanford notwithstanding.

 

[stinkfoot]

If Vandy made us cry in November by staging a comeback and winning by 1,....

They beat Vandy before they got rolling. It's like UM saying they hung in there with aTm. Is it true....yeah, but the aTm team that knocked Bama upside the head and rolled em in the alley is NOT the same team that played in Oxford in early October either.

They played Vandy in what Sept? That ain't the same team that made UM cry in November. Here we go with this worrying nailbiting **** again.

what did we do to you in November? You might also want to consider that Vandy played the same USC team very tough that soon after beat the hell out of UGA on Oct. 6.

 

[o_hacker]

what did we do to you in November?

You beat us. Are you taking offense because he correctly called the Vandy loss a heartbreaking loss?

 

[Coach 57]

what did we do to you in November? You might also want to consider that Vandy played the same USC team very tough that soon after beat the hell out of UGA on Oct. 6.

You beat a disinterested team. They (Vandy) beat a focused team at home who was trying desperately to be in postseason play. UM beat a team that was already going to the post season. Try not to get sand in your *** about facts. Those are FACTS. Nothing more nothing less.

 

[engie]

This is a STATEMENT game for Wilson one way or another...against a spread team with a scrambling QB...

It is VERY difficult to fix a scheme in the middle of the season, when you get about 4 days to prepare for each team. It's now bowl season and he will have somewhere around 20 practices to make adjustments. If he can't get it done for this game, at least schematically, he will never be able to do it. We out talent that Northwestern team at almost every position. I think Wilson makes the necessary adjustments and shows us something in the bowl game for the first defensive statement game in awhile. Time will tell...

Did I dream the idea that redshirts could play in bowl games after the new year without counting against their eligibility? I may have honestly. Can't find that stipulation in the rule book, but I swear I thought that was true...

 

[sickasadawg]

Vandy 17 Auburn 13. Vandy 19 Missouri 15.

 

[MSUDawg4Life]

This is a STATEMENT game for Wilson one way or another...against a spread team with a scrambling QB...

It is VERY difficult to fix a scheme in the middle of the season, when you get about 4 days to prepare for each team. It's now bowl season and he will have somewhere around 20 practices to make adjustments. If he can't get it done for this game, at least schematically, he will never be able to do it. We out talent that Northwestern team at almost every position. I think Wilson makes the necessary adjustments and shows us something in the bowl game for the first defensive statement game in awhile. Time will tell...

Did I dream the idea that redshirts could play in bowl games after the new year without counting against their eligibility? I may have honestly. Can't find that stipulation in the rule book, but I swear I thought that was true...

Agreed. The only position where they are better than us is starting running back. I still think we are better at the running back position as a whole. However, talent alone won't win the game. They can beat us by simply executing and playing well as a team.

I also agree that this is an opportunity for Wilson to show what he's made of. The "problem" with Wilson's defense is the philosophy behind it. Don't give up the big play and force people to drive the field against you hoping that they will make a mistake along the way which will allow you to get the ball back. Piling up yards is no concern as long as the opposing team doesn't score. That works until you face a team that has no problem driving the field on you and scoring. Then all of those yards and the loss look very bad.

I'm a big fan of Chris Wilson. I think he's better at what he does than many give him credit for. He just ran into a few teams that exposed the weaknesses in his defensive strategy. I would like to see how he adjusts. I believe he can get it done, but it's going to take a significant change in strategy.

And, yes, you did dream that redshirts can play in bowl games. I don't think that is true. lol

 

[Coach 57]

That's the philosophy of every offense in the country. His scheme is a biproduct of what Mullen wants. I know Coach Wilson I can tell you first hand THIS idea that he doesn't want more pressure and enjoys being in cover 3 is NOT what he wants to do. He's s 4-4 stack guy, that loves to blitz from multiple angles. The one thing he has left his fingerprints on in THIS defense that he and Mullen have compromised on is the fact that we aren't a base 4-3 team anymore. In today's football in order to get an advantage (since we don't get the pick of the litter in recruiting) you're going to HAVE to be multiple in your sets. Like when Bama played aTm they stayed in dime ALL night long! Do you think Saban/Smart wanted to do that? We can now show multiple looks but it's something that's gonna take some time. And I agree with you Engie, this game IS a statement game for him. He knows what he's got in front of him as far ss fan scrutiny, alumni division over whether he needs to stay. He knows, and I think he is going to show State fans what I already know....We've got the right guy for the job. Do I question some of the things he's done this yr in his personnel groupings....sure. But schematically I do like what he's doing for the most part.

 

[wasabaka]

entering a bowl game where I was really confident we would "out-athelete" the other bowl team was in the '91 Liberty Bowl disaster against Air Force. I was absolutely positive we could handle those guys on both sides of the line.

Coldest game I have ever been to in my life.

 

[MSUDawg4Life]

That's the philosophy of every offense in the country. His scheme is a biproduct of what Mullen wants. I know Coach Wilson I can tell you first hand THIS idea that he doesn't want more pressure and enjoys being in cover 3 is NOT what he wants to do. He's s 4-4 stack guy, that loves to blitz from multiple angles. The one thing he has left his fingerprints on in THIS defense that he and Mullen have compromised on is the fact that we aren't a base 4-3 team anymore. In today's football in order to get an advantage (since we don't get the pick of the litter in recruiting) you're going to HAVE to be multiple in your sets. Like when Bama played aTm they stayed in dime ALL night long! Do you think Saban/Smart wanted to do that? We can now show multiple looks but it's something that's gonna take some time. And I agree with you Engie, this game IS a statement game for him. He knows what he's got in front of him as far ss fan scrutiny, alumni division over whether he needs to stay. He knows, and I think he is going to show State fans what I already know....We've got the right guy for the job. Do I question some of the things he's done this yr in his personnel groupings....sure. But schematically I do like what he's doing for the most part.

You're right, but I think our fans are looking at defenses like Alabama, LSU and maybe Notre Dame and are wondering if we can limit the big plays and force people to drive the field without being soft underneath. It seems that Bama doesn't want to give you anything - big plays, small plays, yards after the catch ... nothing. It seems that they are focused on limiting points and yardage. I think the mindsets are a little different between a team that will give you the small plays and hope you make a mistake as opposed to a defense that is focused on shutting you down whether you make a mistake or not. A little bit of difference there, don't ya think?

Regardless, I do agree with you that we have the right guy for the job. The Gator Bowl is his chance to show and prove and I think he will.

 

[Milo Minderbender]

And it really sucked to find that the passenger side window had been broken out in the parking lot during the game. A cold drive home with plastic taped over the window. It looked like a Bama fan's car.

 

[CadaverDawg]

You're right, but I think our fans are looking at defenses like Alabama, LSU and maybe Notre Dame and are wondering if we can limit the big plays and force people to drive the field without being soft underneath. It seems that Bama doesn't want to give you anything - big plays, small plays, yards after the catch ... nothing. It seems that they are focused on limiting points and yardage. I think the mindsets are a little different between a team that will give you the small plays and hope you make a mistake as opposed to a defense that is focused on shutting you down whether you make a mistake or not. A little bit of difference there, don't ya think?

Regardless, I do agree with you that we have the right guy for the job. The Gator Bowl is his chance to show and prove and I think he will.

This may sound greedy, but I just want a defense that can stop the run against teams not named Bama and LSU (slow it down against the two giants), and that can be within 10 yards of a receiver against a team like A&M. If we can't cover the pass better, then we may as well bring more pressure to limit the amount of time for a QB to find a receiver. But watching teams beat us through the air AND on the ground....short passes AND deep passes...is what I want to see gone. We may not be great in all defensive areas, but we are talented enough to make a team one dimensional, and in my opinion you have to make teams one dimensional in this league to win. If Wilson wants to protect against the big play, fine....but that means you have to stop the run AND the big play. Otherwise you are just prolonging the inevitable and wearing out your defense in the process. I'm no defensive coach, that's why I like input of guys like 57, but I know that we didn't do anything well defensively this year and that is unacceptable for a team with a lot of talent on defense. And even if the D comes out and dominates January 1st, does that mean anything? Wilson will only have two games per year where he has more than a week or two to prepare, so he has to learn to adjust week to week and really half to half and series to series. But maybe I'm wrong in my thinking.

 

[engie]

You're right, but I think our fans are looking at defenses like Alabama, LSU and maybe Notre Dame and are wondering if we can limit the big plays and force people to drive the field without being soft underneath. It seems that Bama doesn't want to give you anything - big plays, small plays, yards after the catch ... nothing. It seems that they are focused on limiting points and yardage. I think the mindsets are a little different between a team that will give you the small plays and hope you make a mistake as opposed to a defense that is focused on shutting you down whether you make a mistake or not. A little bit of difference there, don't ya think?

Regardless, I do agree with you that we have the right guy for the job. The Gator Bowl is his chance to show and prove and I think he will.

IMO Alabama and LSU are the worst possible examples we can model ourselves after... the reason being, neither team runs exotic defensive schemes and neither is overly flashy. Neither scheme is overly aggressive, because they don't have to be. They just out recruit, out develop, and out athlete you at every position. The defense we ran this year was very similar stylistically to Alabamas at times... the difference being that the read/react works when you are better/faster than the man you are covering and there are no botched assignments. It doesn't work when you aren't and safeties constantly botch assignments. That's the story of our year IMO...

My hypothesis is that Wilson greatly overestimated how good we were going to be on defense(as did many of us). As such, he thought he could line up and beat people the way that Alabama and LSU does, largely by reading the offense and reacting. In that mistake lies the explanation for the vanilla scheme and playcalling. One thing that is for CERTAIN, he definitely overestimated his DL... or the scheme would have brought a bunch more pressure from the linebackers, or at least crowded the line of scrimmage and shut down the run. I fault him somewhat for not making adjustments early in the season after we were exposed by Troy, but it is very difficult to make those wholesale changes during a season. Like I said, I'm judging him closely on this bowl game...

 

[dawgstudent]

Which is why Arkansas and Billema don't make much sense. I think his offense will suck with the players that Arkansas can get.

 

[engie]

Which is why Arkansas and Billema don't make much sense. I think his offense will suck with the players that Arkansas can get.

Totally agree with you...

They just brought an LSU style coach to a place that will never, ever get LSU talent. I think he's a good coach, but the cards are much more stacked against him having success at a place like Arky than they are toward a guy like Petrino, who outschemes you and beats you with mostly inferior athletes