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Waters Revisited

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RUsojo

Heisman
Dec 17, 2010
28,300
26,903
113
If the field was 68 teams instead of 65 when waters was coaching he would have made the tournament in his first year at Rutgers and possibly his third as well.

This was in the big east when it was a much tougher conference than the big ten today.

Considering facilities, no portal, no NIL, etc, was he a better coach than we even realized? How does top 68 team success so quickly match up to the history of RU coaches?
 
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Plum Street

Heisman
Jun 21, 2009
27,306
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Would he have made it year 1 and 3? I don’t know, would have to look at the bubble situations . We were closer in 1999 with bannon and would have made it then.

Waters was a good coach that had those two good seasons with mostly bannon’s players . The other 3 seasons were pretty bad.
He was a Midwest guy that didn’t really fit here on the recruiting trail. The NIT runner up team started mostly bannon guys.
Obviously, the guy was a good coach as he proved at other places but it wasn’t the best fit here . He was better than anything else we had though for 20 years so I guess that counts .
 
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S_Janowski

Heisman
May 24, 2009
13,536
25,651
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Hmmm could the OP be randomly bringing up Waters and the extension to 68 teams to indirectly discredit the past 3-4 years under Pikiell.

Honestly we have no way to say whether a Waters team would have gotten in.

Does it really matter?

Unless, you know, you’re trying to passive/aggressively discredit what Pikiell has accomplished.
 
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Loyal_2RU

Heisman
Aug 6, 2001
14,952
10,488
113
RUsojo said:
If the field was 68 teams instead of 65 when waters was coaching he would have made the tournament in his first year at Rutgers and possibly his third as well.

This was in the big east when it was a much tougher conference than the big ten today.

Considering facilities, no portal, no NIL, etc, was he a better coach than we even realized? How does top 68 team success so quickly match up to the history of RU coaches?
Click to expand...
Waters was a fine professional coach. Anyone open to seeing that knew that at the time of. Mulcahy was unprofessional in how he forced him out. A stain on his legacy.
 
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Loyal_2RU

Heisman
Aug 6, 2001
14,952
10,488
113
S_Janowski said:
Hmmm could the OP be randomly bringing up Waters and the extension to 68 teams to indirectly discredit the past 3-4 years under Pikiell.

Honestly we have no way to say whether a Waters team would have gotten in.

Does it really matter?

Unless, you know, you’re trying to passive/aggressively discredit what Pikiell has accomplished.
Click to expand...
I can't speak to sojo's intent, but the two are not related.
 
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scarletrat

All-Conference
Aug 28, 2003
10,990
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Waters wasn’t that close to reaching the tourney at RU.
Bannon was far closer in 99
given his success at Kent State and Cleveland State, I think he was either above his head or did not do what was needed to succeed here, ie, no local assistants
he either went 500 in BE, never won on road, or 2-14 in BE in alt years.
he wasted having shields and douby on same team, never reaching ncaas
he was a good coach.
he’s didnt do what pikell or even wenzel did.
and, btw, this argument about expanding to 68 may be only applicable to first 4. Might remember we were a 10 seed vs Clemson 2 seasons ago.
 
bac2therac

bac2therac

Hall of Famer
Jul 30, 2001
238,137
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Waters also couldn't win on the road. Thats the simple reason RU never made the NCAA
 
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mikebal9

All-Conference
Oct 15, 2005
5,731
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Once spent a night at Harvest Moon being regaled by Connor Fox. His Waters stories were hilarious. He said he was a great guy, but had his share of negatives as a coach. I wouldn't out the great Connor Fox by publicly repeating those negatives.
 
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RUsojo

Heisman
Dec 17, 2010
28,300
26,903
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Amazing to me how many people like to bash Rutgers in this thread.

@S_Janowski is a little young as a Rutgers alum only fan to be around for waters so I will give him the benefit of the doubt as it relates to falling back to a personal attack and his agenda rather than discuss the waters era with clear eyes.
 
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S

S_Janowski

Heisman
May 24, 2009
13,536
25,651
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RUsojo said:
Amazing to me how many people like to bash Rutgers in this thread.

@S_Janowski is a little young as a Rutgers alum only fan to be around for waters so I will give him the benefit of the doubt as it relates to falling back to a personal attack and his agenda rather than discuss the waters era with clear eyes.
Click to expand...

Pretty sure we’re around the same age and I was following Rutgers basketball under Waters (brother 6 years older also went to RU which is when I started following Rutgers sports).

And it wasn’t a personal attack at all.

I’m just calling a spade a spade. We all know what you’re up to here.
 
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RUPete

Heisman
Feb 5, 2003
26,846
16,117
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mikebal9 said:
Once spent a night at Harvest Moon being regaled by Connor Fox. His Waters stories were hilarious. He said he was a great guy, but had his share of negatives as a coach. I wouldn't out the great Connor Fox by publicly repeating those negatives.
Click to expand...
You can’t crack open that door and slam it shut - the statute of limitations has expired! Kidding aside, what HM brews were you guys hitting that night? 😁🍺
 
N

needmorecowbell

Heisman
Oct 28, 2007
9,135
10,008
78
RUsojo said:
If the field was 68 teams instead of 65 when waters was coaching he would have made the tournament in his first year at Rutgers and possibly his third as well.

This was in the big east when it was a much tougher conference than the big ten today.

Considering facilities, no portal, no NIL, etc, was he a better coach than we even realized? How does top 68 team success so quickly match up to the history of RU coaches?
Click to expand...
I always thought he was a good coach. He got a lot out of his players and they played everyone tough.
 
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MADHAT1

MADHAT1

Heisman
Apr 1, 2003
30,541
15,512
113
needmorecowbell said:
I always thought he was a good coach. He got a lot out of his players and they played everyone tough.
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Walters got a lot out of his players, but the players he recruited couldn't
win enough for him to stay.
Waters was out of his depth and that's why Mulcahy had him hire Hill Jr as an assistant then be pushed out so Freddie would be in charge.
Fred Hill Jr then made Gary look like HOF HC compared to him
 
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Plum Street

Heisman
Jun 21, 2009
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mikeyo said:
I met him too after that wild win at The Rock in 2008. He was trashing one of his players as 'stupid'. He didn't know me from the man on the moon. Figures
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Was that the Inman game ???
Both teams stunk so much that neither were invited to the conference tournament
 
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anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy

Guest
S_Janowski said:
Hmmm could the OP be randomly bringing up Waters and the extension to 68 teams to indirectly discredit the past 3-4 years under Pikiell.

Honestly we have no way to say whether a Waters team would have gotten in.

Does it really matter?

Unless, you know, you’re trying to passive/aggressively discredit what Pikiell has accomplished.
Click to expand...
Op makes an inconvenient very valid point. If field stayed at 65 pike wouldve made 1 tourney in 7 years and people would probably feel a little different here/feel better about waters
 
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Plum Street

Heisman
Jun 21, 2009
27,306
23,009
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kyk1827 said:
Op makes an inconvenient very valid point. If field stayed at 65 pike wouldve made 1 tourney in 7 years and people would probably feel a little different here/feel better about waters
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Aren’t you into math ? You’re math chalks up 2020 as a tourney miss .
Please stop…and no rutgers fan feels good about waters
 
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needmorecowbell

Heisman
Oct 28, 2007
9,135
10,008
78
MADHAT1 said:
Walters got a lot out of his players, but the players he recruited couldn't
win enough for him to stay.
Waters was out of his depth and that's why Mulcahy had him hire Hill Jr as an assistant then be pushed out so Freddie would be in charge.
Fred Hill Jr then made Gary look like HOF HC compared to him
Click to expand...
He was a very good coach. Probably not a great fit as a recruiter in NJ.
 
P

PSAL_Hoops

Heisman
Feb 18, 2008
11,637
10,747
78
kyk1827 said:
Op makes an inconvenient very valid point. If field stayed at 65 pike wouldve made 1 tourney in 7 years and people would probably feel a little different here/feel better about waters
Click to expand...
No - from where we started, all would be thrilled to have just been in the conversation until Selection day. Just stop. The program is in infinitely better shape now than it was before Pike.
 
R

RutgersChow

All-Conference
Dec 31, 2008
2,945
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wheezer said:
We had a terrible road record almost every year with him
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Record is not always a measure of a coach. I don't remember his talent level, but I don't think it was great. I do know his kids played really hard and played great man-to-man defense, better than Pike IMO. His teams were great at blocking out.
 
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MADHAT1

MADHAT1

Heisman
Apr 1, 2003
30,541
15,512
113
RutgersChow said:
Record is not always a measure of a coach. I don't remember his talent level, but I don't think it was great. I do know his kids played really hard and played great man-to-man defense, better than Pike IMO. His teams were great at blocking out.
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Record is a measure of how long a HC keeps his job.
Talent helps coaches win, if they can't bring in the talent when facing good competition unemployment is the usual result.
Many RU fans kook at Gary as a good HC, but his team's performance proved to be at best fairly good but not good enough to keep his job.
I feel Gary is remembered fondly by some because they are judging him on a curve ( his replacement made him look like he made Rutgers a good program) but in reality he just couldn't make RU MBB the type of program that could win enough to go dancing.

At best Gary could get his team close but never a cigar.
a 28-52 BE Conference record isn't one that solidifies a coach's hold on his job and a 79-75 total for 5 years doesn't make for job security when it seems you have a losing record every other year.
 
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Plum Street

Heisman
Jun 21, 2009
27,306
23,009
0
MADHAT1 said:
Record is a measure of how long a HC keeps his job.
Talent helps coaches win, if they can't bring in the talent when facing good competition unemployment is the usual result.
Many RU fans kook at Gary as a good HC, but his team's performance proved to be at best fairly good but not good enough to keep his job.
I feel Gary is remembered fondly by some because they are judging him on a curve ( his replacement made him look like he made Rutgers a good program)
but in reality he just couldn't make RU MBB the type of program that could win enough to go dancing.
At best Gary could get his team close but never a cigar.
a 28-52 BE Conference record isn't one that solidifies a coach's hold on his job
and a 79-75 total for 5 years doesn't make for job security when it seems you have a losing record every other year.
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Wow 28-52 . Although , that was a tough league that record still terrible
 
M

mikebal9

All-Conference
Oct 15, 2005
5,731
4,961
113
RUPete said:
You can’t crack open that door and slam it shut - the statute of limitations has expired! Kidding aside, what HM brews were you guys hitting that night? 😁🍺
Click to expand...
I honestly don't remember. I only remember CF cracking us up with really funny stories about GW. Again, said he was a great guy.
 
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anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy

Guest
PSAL_Hoops said:
No - from where we started, all would be thrilled to have just been in the conversation until Selection day. Just stop. The program is in infinitely better shape now than it was before Pike.
Click to expand...
I agree its in better shape than pre pike
 
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