We’ve cheaped-out on every football coach we’ve

[Perd Hapley]

$15 million is a lot of money when you are just trying to make sure you hit the $21 mill rev share. If you spend it you better know someone is gonna be a lot better and in hiring CFB coaches that’s almost impossible to know.

Where are you getting the $15 million number?

He has only 2 years left on his deal that pays him an average of $4.5 million per year. There is no way in hell that the buyout is any higher than $9 million….and that’s only if his contract is 100% guaranteed for the base salary.

Not that a difference of $6 million really matters much, regardless. In this day an age where schools aren’t thinking twice about paying $30-$50 million buyouts, if we can’t come up with $9-$15 million then we should just drop down to FCS and call it a day.

 

[8dog]

Where are you getting the $15 million number?

He has only 2 years left on his deal that pays him an average of $4.5 million per year. There is no way in hell that the buyout is any higher than $9 million….and that’s only if his contract is 100% guaranteed for the base salary.

Not that a difference of $6 million really matters much, regardless. In this day an age where schools aren’t thinking twice about paying $30-$50 million buyouts, if we can’t come up with $9-$15 million then we should just drop down to FCS and call it a day.

Because it’s (phenomenally) likely another $3 mill to buy Hutz out. Add in the all the other buyouts and you are probably around $15 mill. And we can find $15 for a buy out but that’s $15 mill less to fund rev share or NIL. I don’t think every school is going to easily fund the max rev share with just Ops

 

[kired]

We pay about $2MM per less than the nearest coach in this league and only Vandy pays less, and that's about to change. We are most definitely going cheap.

We’re ~50th in nation. Does anyone believe Lebby is one of the 50 best college football coaches in the world? I say we’re way overpaying for the coach we’ve got, and there’s got to be someone better out there even if our salary is last in the sec

 

[Perd Hapley]

Because it’s (phenomenally) likely another $3 mill to buy Hutz out. Add in the all the other buyouts and you are probably around $15 mill. And we can find $15 for a buy out but that’s $15 mill less to fund rev share or NIL. I don’t think every school is going to easily fund the max rev share

Hutz isn’t going to just stop coaching though, neither is Lebby. Hutz will get a P4 or NFL position coaching gig paying $700-$800k, and nearly offset all of his buyout.

Lebby will get picked up as an OC at $1-$1.5 million per year, offsetting a portion of his buyout.

There’s still a chunk to cover on Lebby, but Hutz and the other assistants? That’s a complete non-issue. End of the day, we’d be paying out at most $7 million to Lebby, then at most $1 million to everyone else. All spread put over a minimum of two years.

 

[85Bears]

Bob Chesney at JMU , 9-1, makes $830,000 a year.

 

[8dog]

Hutz isn’t going to just stop coaching though, neither is Lebby. Hutz will get a P4 or NFL position coaching gig paying $700-$800k, and nearly offset all of his buyout.

Lebby will get picked up as an OC at $1-$1.5 million per year, offsetting a portion of his buyout.

There’s still a chunk to cover on Lebby, but Hutz and the other assistants? That’s a complete non-issue. End of the day, we’d be paying out at most $7 million to Lebby, then at most $1 million to everyone else. All spread put over a minimum of two years.

Well Lebbys is actually more bc his deal with the Bulldog Club was 5 years.

 

[ckDOG]

Bullshlt. We are paying market rate for the mainstream. Lots of G5/FCS guys out there.

But we are definitely stuck another year with the reincarnated Croom/Moorhead. Assuming no LB/QB fight.

Would going cheap for SEC but giving a G5/FCS staff a big raise work? I think you could easily acquire coaching intelligence/competency but would they be able to get portal guys to sign on if offered the right money?

Sounds fine on paper but good portal guys probably pass on that until the G5/FCS promotion guy proves himself at the higher level so we are right back to chicken egg situation we got ourselves into with Lebby.

 

[PhredPhantom]

ever hired, so why does anyone think Lebby’s replacement would be any different? I think we’re stuck with Lebby for another season. Meanwhile we pour ourfinite resources into the black hole of college baseball.

Yes, we should quit throwing money into the black hole of the one sport (baseball) in which we have a long tradition of winning, have actually won a National Championship in, and have a legitimate chance of winning future National Championships.

Instead, let's throw even *more* money (on multiple orders or magnitude) into a sport where we have *no* tradition of winning championships and have absolutely no chance of EVER winning one. Yes, let's take that direction and see how it turns out. Makes perfect sense.

 

[Perd Hapley]

Well Lebbys is actually more bc his deal with the Bulldog Club was 5 years.

His buyout from both the Bulldog Club and University together was $14.3 million on 11/30/2024, if we fired him in Year 1. That number is dropping down by - at minimum - his 2025 compensation if we fired him on 11/30/2025. His 2025 salary is $4.35 million.

So, the absolute highest his buyout could be after this season is $9.95 million.

Link:

https://www.clarionledger.com/story/sports/college/mississippi-state/2024/08/21/jeff-lebby-buyout-mississippi-state-football-contract/74853724007/

 

[Perd Hapley]

Would going cheap for SEC but giving a G5/FCS staff a big raise work? I think you could easily acquire coaching intelligence/competency but would they be able to get portal guys to sign on if offered the right money?

Sounds fine on paper but good portal guys probably pass on that until the G5/FCS promotion guy proves himself at the higher level so we are right back to chicken egg situation we got ourselves into with Lebby.

Who cares? We’re not getting the portal guys we need right now. Not at the positions that matter. The OL/DL are terrible.

If you improve the intelligence / competency and just don’t do any worse than the current staff has done in the portal (which is really just as much on the boosters / donors for NIL), then you still improve the program by leaps and bounds.

 

[8dog]

His buyout from both the Bulldog Club and University together was $14.3 million on 11/30/2024, if we fired him in Year 1. That number is dropping down by - at minimum - his 2025 compensation if we fired him on 11/30/2025. His 2025 salary is $4.35 million.

So, the absolute highest his buyout could be after this season is $9.95 million.

Link:

https://www.clarionledger.com/story/sports/college/mississippi-state/2024/08/21/jeff-lebby-buyout-mississippi-state-football-contract/74853724007/

https://www.clarionledger.com/story/sports/college/mississippi-state/2025/10/08/mississippi-state-football-coach-jeff-lebby-2025-contract-details-salary-buyout-and-more/86573997007/

$11 million. But more importantly from your link is what a mockery these coaches make of mitigation. Arnett took An analyst role for 67k

 

[ckDOG]

Who cares? We’re not getting the portal guys we need right now. Not at the positions that matter. The OL/DL are terrible.

If you improve the intelligence / competency and just don’t do any worse than the current staff has done in the portal (which is really just as much on the boosters / donors for NIL), then you still improve the program by leaps and bounds.

All other things considered equal, yeah, you're right. I'm not attempting to make a Lebby argument. I'm just asking what we could expect in terms of talent if we went the "no name lower level perhaps coaching savant" approach.

 

[Perd Hapley]

https://www.clarionledger.com/story/sports/college/mississippi-state/2025/10/08/mississippi-state-football-coach-jeff-lebby-2025-contract-details-salary-buyout-and-more/86573997007/

$11 million. But more importantly from your link is what a mockery these coaches make of mitigation. Arnett took An analyst role for 67k

Well that’s idiotic. We’re literally reducing the buyout amount yearly by less than the amount we pay him. But either way, that’s not a lot of money in the grand scheme of things. If it is prohibitive for us, we don’t really need to continue fielding a football program.

 

[birdawg]

We aren’t cheaping out. We are paying market rate for coaches that will even return our call

Not buying this.

John Cohen put it in everyone's heads that we have to be cute with our hires bc we are mstate.

 

[8dog]

Not buying this.

John Cohen put it in everyone's heads that we have to be cute with our hires bc we are mstate.

Well we paid Mike Leach in 2019 more than we are paying Lebby now And Billy Napier didn’t tell us no multiple times bc we wouldn’t meet his salary demand. We would have paid Mullen whatever it took to keep him. It wasn’t going to matter

 

[birdawg]

Well we paid Mike Leach in 2019 more than we are paying Lebby now And Billy Napier didn’t tell us no multiple times bc we wouldn’t meet his salary demand.

Yeah bc Mike Leach was a proven HC.

See if you can spot the difference and outlier bt these 2 groups given their performance...

Dan Mullen
Joe Moorhead
Zac Arnett
Lebby
Croom

Jackie Sherill
Mike Leach

If we approached football HC they way we just did a baseball your argument would evaporate.

 

[8dog]

Yeah bc Mike Leach was a proven HC.

See if you can spot the difference and outlier bt these 2 groups given their performance...

Dan Mullen
Joe Moorhead
Zac Arnett
Lebby
Croom

Jackie Sherill
Mike Leach

If we approached football HC they way we just did a baseball your argument would evaporate.

Exactly. We paid what we needed to to get a coach that would give us a look.
Arnett was an outlier bc of an odd situation and was done for reasons that were not monetary. But the others were just in a pool of guys that would return our call. People are not dying to take our job. Croom was 20 years ago and we were on probation. Totally different era.

My guess is if we went out and said we would pay $8 mill a year the pool of candidates would be the same. We are paying a ST coach $1 million to be our DC.

 

[Maroon13]

Yeah bc Mike Leach was a proven HC.

See if you can spot the difference and outlier bt these 2 groups given their performance...

Dan Mullen
Joe Moorhead
Zac Arnett
Lebby
Croom

Jackie Sherill
Mike Leach

If we approached football HC they way we just did a baseball your argument would evaporate.

Did you really put Mullen in a group with Arnett, Croom.... ? Haha.

State fans love them a good boogie man. All these boogie men for years ruining what could be...

if not for the boogie man.... the reality of State would be what Bama is.*****

 

[birdawg]

Did you really put Mullen in a group with Arnett, Croom.... ? Haha.

State fans love them a good boogie man. All these boogie men for years ruining what could be...

if not for the boogie man.... the reality of State would be what Bama is.*****

Wow went over both of your heads!

Dan Mullen was the outlier. He is the one and ONLY non-proven HC that ever worked. The 2x we hired a proven winner and paid-up, it worked.

I mean I can show you mathematically if need me to. It's simple math.

 

[birdawg]

Exactly. We paid what we needed to to get a coach that would give us a look.
Arnett was an outlier bc of an odd situation and was done for reasons that were not monetary. But the others were just in a pool of guys that would return our call. People are not dying to take our job. Croom was 20 years ago and we were on probation. Totally different era.

My guess is if we went out and said we would pay $8 mill a year the pool of candidates would be the same. We are paying a ST coach $1 million to be our DC.

Arnett is not the outlier. Mullen is.

He's the only non-proven HC we've hired that worked out. The 2x we paid-up and hired proven winners, we won. It's literally simple math.

 

[Maroon13]

Wow went over both of your heads!

You were all over the place in two post.

Called Cohen cute for hiring who everyone thought was a good hire at the time. But Cohen hired leach too.

Also I don't recall what we paid Jackie in 1991 but at one time he was the highest paid College HC and I guarantee he wasn't in 1991. Also the jackie/Mississippi state match up had nothing to do with money. It was about two desperate souls meeting at a place in time.

 

[birdawg]

You were all over the place in two post.

Called Cohen cute for hiring who everyone thought was a good hire at the time. But Cohen hired leach too.

Also I don't recall what we paid Jackie in 1991 but at one time he was the highest paid College HC and I guarantee he wasn't in 1991. Also the jackie/Mississippi state match up had nothing to do with money. It was about two desperate souls meeting at a place in time.

lol I give up you're still missing the point. You're right we should overpay for a G5 OC next time

 

[8dog]

Arnett is not the outlier. Mullen is.

He's the only non-proven HC we've hired that worked out. The 2x we paid-up and hired proven winners, we won. It's literally simple math.

No what I’m saying is Arnett had nothing to do with money or cheaping out. We hired him for continuity. We also didn’t have an AD. Mullen was not a proven winner He was OC. And Mullen started at the 49th salary in ncaa. But he would take our call like Leach bc Leach wanted out and no one else would hire him. Nothing is a sure thing in CFB so there is no one out there we could potentially hire that’s a sure thing or even proven in all likelihood. TAMU hired a guy who won a natty and he failed Florida hired the hottest G5 name and he failed. LSU just fired a guy who went to the national champ game.

 

[Podgy]

His buyout from both the Bulldog Club and University together was $14.3 million on 11/30/2024, if we fired him in Year 1. That number is dropping down by - at minimum - his 2025 compensation if we fired him on 11/30/2025. His 2025 salary is $4.35 million.

So, the absolute highest his buyout could be after this season is $9.95 million.

Link:

https://www.clarionledger.com/story/sports/college/mississippi-state/2024/08/21/jeff-lebby-buyout-mississippi-state-football-contract/74853724007/

We had some master negotiators on that deal. They should write a book about how to waste someone else's money consequence free.

 

[ETK99]

Not buying this.

John Cohen put it in everyone's heads that we have to be cute with our hires bc we are mstate.

And Templeton made everyone believe we're poor and can do what other schools do.

 

[horshack.sixpack]

I've noticed that around half of the posters (here and ED) who still support Lebby will acknowledge that he'll probably be fired next year, but they still think giving a new coach 3 years is the right thing to do, so we should do it.

I’m not on the must do 3 year train, in general, but with the vacancies out there this year, I’m not sure this is the year to look.

 

[patdog]

Because it’s (phenomenally) likely another $3 mill to buy Hutz out. Add in the all the other buyouts and you are probably around $15 mill. And we can find $15 for a buy out but that’s $15 mill less to fund rev share or NIL. I don’t think every school is going to easily fund the max rev share with just Ops

Regardless if your numbers are right or not, it’s gonna cost us more not to buy them out than it would to buy them out. But penny wise & pound foolish has always been the Mississippi State way.

 

[horshack.sixpack]

As much as I’m not a big fan of analytics. You can’t ignore them. Lebby has a knack for doing the exact opposite of what analytics dictate. And it fails every time.

I’d argue some of his play calling at critical times in the game has done the exact opposite of common sense.

 

[8dog]

Regardless if your numbers are right or not, it’s gonna cost us more not to buy them out than it would to buy them out. But penny wise & pound foolish has always been the Mississippi State way.

That’s only if we hire someone good. Which is hard. Especially in this cycle. Especially if we let our 3rd coach in 4 tries go before year 3. Job will be toxic. Anyone we would hire can get a job somewhere paying x millions. Why risk your career at a job that needs a total roster build and won’t give you more than 2 years?

 

[horshack.sixpack]

Chadwell wouldn’t even answer the phone when we called and liberty is 4-6 this year. Mullen is the only one that can save us at this point. Offer him 9m and let’s get it over with.

Mullen was good at developing players and finding hidden gems. I don’t know that the game today lends itself to players hanging around enough to be developed. Perhaps Mullen could adapt. He’s certainly proven he can coach better than the talent that UNLV faced this year.

 

[horshack.sixpack]

Any chance Lebby just wants to get fired and get a payout. His crappy play calling on critical down and distance is bad enough to inspire conspiracy theories…

 

[gtowndawg]

Any chance Lebby just wants to get fired and get a payout. His crappy play calling on critical down and distance is bad enough to inspire conspiracy theories…

I've said for the past month I honestly believe it's dawned on him he can't do this job. He doesn't have the ability to be a HC in the SEC and he knows it. So yeah, getting fired and collecting his buyout totally makes sense to me. I don't think he wants the job.

 

[615dawg]

Who was the HS school coach from Arkansas who never punted. Worked great when his teams just out talented their opponents. He got a I-AA college job and went 2-9 (0-8). Coaches punt in 4th down for a reason.

High school football is usually about who has more talent.
NFL football is about the best coaches.

College has always been in between, but its starting to lean heavily toward coaching, and we have the worst coaching staff in the SEC by a large margin.

 

[85Bears]

I've said for the past month I honestly believe it's dawned on him he can't do this job. He doesn't have the ability to be a HC in the SEC and he knows it. So yeah, getting fired and collecting his buyout totally makes sense to me. I don't think he wants the job.

There were some rumors he wanted out a few weeks ago, his ongoing record here could derail any chances he has in the future of ever being a HC again, at least for a long long time. I wouldn’t be shocked if hes Looking to get out. I imagine he loses the buyout if he resigns.

 

[horshack.sixpack]

There were some rumors he wanted out a few weeks ago, his ongoing record here could derail any chances he has in the future of ever being a HC again, at least for a long long time. I wouldn’t be shocked if hes Looking to get out. I imagine he loses the buyout if he resigns.

If he were to get fired on purpose, take a large payout, and walk away forever to focus on his health, travel and family, I would give him kudos for pulling off my ultimate college coaching plan.

 

[L4Dawg]

For a WAY below market coach that proves that every weekend

Fire him this year and it will be even worse with the next one. The messiah coach complex is unhealthy.

 

[QuaoarsKing]

I’m not on the must do 3 year train, in general, but with the vacancies out there this year, I’m not sure this is the year to look.

What if there are a bunch of vacancies again next year? Or more?

I think we just can't worry about that.

 

[L4Dawg]

Curt Cignetti says hello. We need stability and we need someone who is willing to give us that and not jump ship at first offer . Someone who is a good solid coach. We need to accept where we are right now as a football program. Cause it ain’t good. 55 is not too old for a football coach.

Do you have any idea how rare it is for that to happen? It really is catching lighting in a bottle.

 

[horshack.sixpack]

What if there are a bunch of vacancies again next year? Or more?

I think we just can't worry about that.

Point taken. I haven't looked at data, but this year feels like an outlier with respect to the number programs that would be considered "better" than MSU being open.

 

[Maroon13]

lol I give up you're still missing the point. You're right we should overpay for a G5 OC next time

You know who got "cute" and cheap? Selmon. But yall won't say that.

He had the opportunity to hire Barry Odom, a proven HC and didn't.