We almost left this Miami team out…..

[OG Goat Holder]

Get rid of conference championship games, award ‘champions’ by record

16 teams, must include at least 5 conference champions

Top 2 seeds get the G6, unless a G6 is ranked higher

First round at home, the rest at selected bowls, location choice by the higher seed

This ends all debate.

 

[Perd Hapley]

Get rid of conference championship games, award ‘champions’ by record

16 teams, must include at least 5 conference champions

Top 2 seeds get the G6, unless a G6 is ranked higher

First round at home, the rest at selected bowls, location choice by the higher seed

This ends all debate.

I think “we” need to eliminate this bogus thinking that the process was either good or bad for selecting teams based strictly on the results that happen after, and who gets hot or who doesn’t. You have a regular season, the results of the regular season matter (both good and bad), and that’s what has to be used to select the teams. You have to draw the line somewhere. Does anyone really think Notre Dame couldn’t have done the same thing Miami has done? Maybe even Texas? Does anyone think the 14th or 15th best team overall that doesn’t make the field in a 16-team format couldn’t conceivably reach the semifinals or even the national title game, maybe even win it?

There are 12 spots for the CFP, and rules for how they are filled. There are ALWAYS going to be more teams that could conceivably either win the CFP, or at least do really well, than there will be spots for teams. The same holds true for every other tournament and every other sport. Look no further than Ole Miss baseball in 2022, or all those “First Four” teams in basketball that have made a run.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

I think “we” need to eliminate this bogus thinking that the process was either good or bad for selecting teams based strictly on the results that happen after, and who gets hot or who doesn’t. You have a regular season, the results of the regular season matter (both good and bad), and that’s what has to be used to select the teams. You have to draw the line somewhere. Does anyone really think Notre Dame couldn’t have done the same thing Miami has done? Maybe even Texas? Does anyone think the 14th or 15th best team overall that doesn’t make the field in a 16-team format couldn’t conceivably reach the semifinals or even the national title game, maybe even win it?

There are 12 spots for the CFP, and rules for how they are filled. There are ALWAYS going to be more teams that could conceivably either win the CFP, or at least do really well, than there will be spots for teams. The same holds true for every other tournament and every other sport. Look no further than Ole Miss baseball in 2022, or all those “First Four” teams in basketball that have made a run.

Crazy to not use the information you have to make better decisions.

On Notre Dame......maybe? They certainly made a run last year from the 7 spot while Ohio State won it from the 8. Ohio State won the first 4-teamer from the 4 spot. I think it's becoming apparent that we've disqualified many capable teams over the years.

And the FACTS are, most every level of NCAA/NAIA sport includes around 20% of the teams eligible. 16 teams is below the bare minimum, but it's a good compromise. 12 with byes is dumb.

 

[Chesusdog]

I would have left out Tulane, James Madison, Ole Miss and Alabama. But I also wouldn't have invited Notre Dame.

 

[HailStout]

I would have left out Ole Miss

 

[johnson86-1]

Crazy to not use the information you have to make better decisions.

On Notre Dame......maybe? They certainly made a run last year from the 7 spot while Ohio State won it from the 8. Ohio State won the first 4-teamer from the 4 spot. I think it's becoming apparent that we've disqualified many capable teams over the years.

And the FACTS are, most every level of NCAA/NAIA sport includes around 20% of the teams eligible. 16 teams is below the bare minimum, but it's a good compromise. 12 with byes is dumb.

We've certainly disqualified many capable teams but outside of Auburn's undefeated season with Ronnie Brown and Cadillac, I don't know how many times we've excluded the most deserving team.

OSU's championship in the the first 4 team playoff is a perfect example. At the time they got in, it looked like they were one of the best four teams. But if you had wanted to put the four most deserving teams based on their regular season performance, they wouldn't have gotten in I don't think. I'm drawing a blank on who got screwed that year. But had we beat Ole Miss, that would have been a great example. We would have been more deserving, but maybe not as good (and definitely not as good after losing our two best free safeties).

I think expanding the playoffs makes it less likely a team that can win gets left out, but at the end of the day, I think you should always go with most deserving if you are doing some sort of at large. If you have 4 good players that aren't healthy until 5 games into the season, well, that part of hte season still counts. Lots of teams get hotter or gel or are better at the end of the season for whatever reason, but there aren't enough games in football to take things like that into account because you don't know who got better versus who started playing easier competition versus who just caught good teams at the right time.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

We've certainly disqualified many capable teams but outside of Auburn's undefeated season with Ronnie Brown and Cadillac, I don't know how many times we've excluded the most deserving team.

OSU's championship in the the first 4 team playoff is a perfect example. At the time they got in, it looked like they were one of the best four teams. But if you had wanted to put the four most deserving teams based on their regular season performance, they wouldn't have gotten in I don't think. I'm drawing a blank on who got screwed that year. But had we beat Ole Miss, that would have been a great example. We would have been more deserving, but maybe not as good (and definitely not as good after losing our two best free safeties).

I think expanding the playoffs makes it less likely a team that can win gets left out, but at the end of the day, I think you should always go with most deserving if you are doing some sort of at large. If you have 4 good players that aren't healthy until 5 games into the season, well, that part of hte season still counts. Lots of teams get hotter or gel or are better at the end of the season for whatever reason, but there aren't enough games in football to take things like that into account because you don't know who got better versus who started playing easier competition versus who just caught good teams at the right time.

There were certainly less deserving teams in the old system, or at least it seemed that way. Always seemed to be at least 1, usually 2, and sometimes 3 dominant teams so the BCS seemed fine. 4 team playoff exposed a little of that, but now with the new system, talent is less concentrated and I think it's expanded quite a bit as has been proven with a 10 seed in the title game.

I think there will always be a debate about 'best teams' and 'most deserving teams', etc etc etc. Bigger playoff at least continues to somewhat mitigate that.

 

[Maroon13]

Isn't that crazy to think about? Seeing how Miami is close to winning that thing, I really think Notre Dame got screwed. Ole Miss should've played them first round instead of Tulane.

1. eliminate the conference championship game.
2. One through 16. Get in the playoffs, regardless a conference affiliation.
3. No home playoff games. The music city the mayonnaise. The liberty bowl etc are all first round sites.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

Isn't that crazy to think about? Seeing how Miami is close to winning that thing, I really think Notre Dame got screwed. Ole Miss should've played them first round instead of Tulane.

1. eliminate the conference championship game.
2. One through 16. Get in the playoffs, regardless a conference affiliation.
3. No home playoff games. The music city the mayonnaise. The liberty bowl etc are all first round sites.

I like the idea of all bowl games too, but it's apparent the majority likes the home games, so I'm ok with that compromise. Plus it cuts down on travel costs and helps the college towns.

As long as the G6 is a part of FBS, they have to have a shot, something to play for. And they are good rewards for the top seeds. There has to be a slight amount of communism, which is another reason why a bigger playoff is better.

 

[johnson86-1]

Isn't that crazy to think about? Seeing how Miami is close to winning that thing, I really think Notre Dame got screwed. Ole Miss should've played them first round instead of Tulane.

1. eliminate the conference championship game.
2. One through 16. Get in the playoffs, regardless a conference affiliation.
3. No home playoff games. The music city the mayonnaise. The liberty bowl etc are all first round sites.

I don't know that Notre Dame got screwed as much as we stupidly insist on including unqualified teams from the G6. Did they need votes from the G6 to pass playoff rules or something? If a G6 is good enough to compete, they can get inside the top 14/16 by going and playing 4 solid P4 teams each year and winning them.

 

[anon1768925248]

I don't know that Notre Dame got screwed as much as we stupidly insist on including unqualified teams from the G6. Did they need votes from the G6 to pass playoff rules or something? If a G6 is good enough to compete, they can get inside the top 14/16 by going and playing 4 solid P4 teams each year and winning them.

Yes. Just have a bcs type formula and take the top 16. Whoever that is. This will get the best teams in. Do away with bye and put first 2 weeks at home.

 

[FlotownDawg]

The rules are stupid for a 12-team playoff. If you have only 12 teams, two of them can't be make a wish kid bids. Everyone knew Tulane and James Madison would get their doors blown off in the playoff. If you're going to invite the group of six champion, it has to be a 16-team playoff. That way you at least get the top 15 teams in the country. There is no way that team number 16, who probably has three or four losses, can complain about getting left out. In reality, the group of six needs its own playoff. Have a 16-team playoff for the Power 4, and have an 8-team playoff for the G6 champion. If a G6 team is in the final 16 of the overall playoff rankings, they can choose to play in the P4 playoff instead of the G6 playoff.

 

[GloryDawg]

It is proof changes has to be made to how teams are selected.

 

[patdog]

Isn't that crazy to think about? Seeing how Miami is close to winning that thing, I really think Notre Dame got screwed. Ole Miss should've played them first round instead of Tulane.

1. eliminate the conference championship game.
2. One through 16. Get in the playoffs, regardless a conference affiliation.
3. No home playoff games. The music city the mayonnaise. The liberty bowl etc are all first round sites.

If Notre Dame had joined a conference they could have played their way in. Hard to argue when you chose not to join a conference, played a generally weak schedule & lost to the only 2 decent teams you played.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

I don't know that Notre Dame got screwed as much as we stupidly insist on including unqualified teams from the G6. Did they need votes from the G6 to pass playoff rules or something? If a G6 is good enough to compete, they can get inside the top 14/16 by going and playing 4 solid P4 teams each year and winning them.

You could certainly help this by not allowing FCS games. Especially now with all the 9-game conference schedules.

 

[QuaoarsKing]

16 teams
2 sets of seeded 1-8 to avoid early rematches and keep teams closer to home
All home sites until the championship to further reward the regular seasons
Autobids to each P4 conference and 1 G5
Get rid of conference championship games if possible (maybe impossible)
Play the games on the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th Saturdays in December, with the championship on January 1 or the first Saturday of January, depending on the calendar

 

[patdog]

I nominate you Czar of the college football playoffs.

 

[L4Dawg]

The FACT is unless you include EVERY team in the division there will always be bitching and moaning. Look at March Madness. I'm tired of participation trophies and Tourny berths. There are too MANY playoff teams in ALL sports in the US. Take the P4 conference champions and screw the rest.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

The FACT is unless you include EVERY team in the division there will always be bitching and moaning. Look at March Madness. I'm tired of participation trophies and Tourny berths. There are too MANY playoff teams in ALL sports in the US. Take the P4 conference champions and screw the rest.

There is no data that supports other than your longing for the old era, which is not returning for good reason.

Conference title is also arbitrary, because conferences are not created equally.

Bad take. That type of thinking is medieval and not applicable.

 

[Perd Hapley]

It is proof changes has to be made to how teams are selected.

No, it really isn’t, unless the only change you are proposing is minimizing or completely eliminating the G6 selections.

 

[85Bears]

Notre Dame was one of the four best teams in my opinion and Vegas opinion. They got better every week. I think they would be about like Miami in the playoffs.

The elephnt in the room is ESPN owns broadcast rights for sec acc and 60% of the big 12, that’s why ND was excluded. ESPN is trash.

 

[mstateglfr]

Notre Dame was one of the four best teams in my opinion and Vegas opinion. They got better every week. I think they would be about like Miami in the playoffs.

The elephnt in the room is ESPN owns broadcast rights for sec acc and 60% of the big 12, that’s why ND was excluded. ESPN is trash.

You disagree with ND not being selected? Oh, hadn't heard.**

 

[85Bears]

that crappy four loss Bama team should have been playing in the Birmingham Bowl

 

[L4Dawg]

There is no data that supports other than your longing for the old era, which is not returning for good reason.

Conference title is also arbitrary, because conferences are not created equally.

Bad take. That type of thinking is medieval and not applicable.

That would not be returning to any old era. We literally have NEVER done it like that. You as usual have no idea what you are blathering on about. Make teams EARN a berth on the field, no beauty contests involving votes.

 

[Perd Hapley]

Crazy to not use the information you have to make better decisions.

What is the better decision that wasn’t made?

It can’t be answered, ever, because it’s eternally subjective and unknowable. We’ll never know how ND or Texas or Vandy would have performed this year, because they didn’t make it. We’ll never know what would have happened if TCU got in over Ohio State, in 2014, because they didn’t make it. We’ll never know how FSU would have done in 2023, because they didn’t make it.

In a playoff, the only thing that is 100% certain is that there is always going to be a higher number of capable teams than how many teams that you can select, no matter how big you make it or how inclusive you try to be. People try to apply this “the regular season matters” / “head to head has to matter” mantra, but also say “decide it on the field”. You can’t do both. Once you select and seed the teams, nothing that happened in the regular season matters at all. 3 weeks go by, and its a clean slate and a new data set. The teams that were really good in the regular season may or may not still be really good.

On Notre Dame......maybe? They certainly made a run last year from the 7 spot while Ohio State won it from the 8. Ohio State won the first 4-teamer from the 4 spot. I think it's becoming apparent that we've disqualified many capable teams over the years.

And we are 100% guaranteed to disqualify many capable teams EVERY year, no matter how big the field gets. It’s an exercise in futility to try and avoid that. See above.

But one thing that we are quickly learning, is that an almost comical amount of emphasis has been placed on head to head results in the regular season when trying to judge teams. Actual data has consistently shown that, honestly, that shít shouldn’t really matter at all…..beyond how it is used to settle in-conference tie breakers.

This year, in P4-vs-P4 matchups that repeat in the postseason, the losers of the regular season game are 4-1 in the rematch when the stakes are at the absolute highest. Only one who didn’t win was BYU over Texas Tech in the Big 12 title game. Going back countless years (2011 LSU / Bama, 1996 UF / FSU, etc), you’ll see the same thing. Using head-to-head in football as this major criteria when you only have 1 friggen data point is even more arbitrary than simply flipping a coin.

 

[GloryDawg]

No, it really isn’t, unless the only change you are proposing is minimizing or completely eliminating the G6 selections.

they have to get the human element out as much as possible.

 

[L4Dawg]

What is the better decision that wasn’t made?

It can’t be answered, ever, because it’s eternally subjective and unknowable. We’ll never know how ND or Texas or Vandy would have performed this year, because they didn’t make it. We’ll never know what would have happened if TCU got in over Ohio State, in 2014, because they didn’t make it. We’ll never know how FSU would have done in 2023, because they didn’t make it.

In a playoff, the only thing that is 100% certain is that there is always going to be a higher number of capable teams than how many teams that you can select, no matter how big you make it or how inclusive you try to be. People try to apply this “the regular season matters” / “head to head has to matter” mantra, but also say “decide it on the field”. You can’t do both. Once you select and seed the teams, nothing that happened in the regular season matters at all. 3 weeks go by, and its a clean slate and a new data set. The teams that were really good in the regular season may or may not still be really good.


And we are 100% guaranteed to disqualify many capable teams EVERY year, no matter how big the field gets. It’s an exercise in futility to try and avoid that. See above.

But one thing that we are quickly learning, is that an almost comical amount of emphasis has been placed on head to head results in the regular season when trying to judge teams. Actual data has consistently shown that, honestly, that shít shouldn’t really matter at all…..beyond how it is used to settle in-conference tie breakers.

This year, in P4-vs-P4 matchups that repeat in the postseason, the losers of the regular season game are 4-1 in the rematch when the stakes are at the absolute highest. Only one who didn’t win was BYU over Texas Tech in the Big 12 title game. Going back countless years (2011 LSU / Bama, 1996 UF / FSU, etc), you’ll see the same thing. Using head-to-head in football as this major criteria when you only have 1 friggen data point is even more arbitrary than simply flipping a coin.

If head to head doesn't matter, then why play the regular season at all. Just let the committee vote on their feelings about who would have been the best teams and go straight to the playoff.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

If head to head doesn't matter, then why play the regular season at all. Just let the committee vote on their feelings about who would have been the best teams and go straight to the playoff.

See, you're just a moron who can't think past your own eyelids.

Head to head CAN'T matter because not everyone plays each other. It's resume vs resume. Not to mention this precedent has been set long ago.

Florida State vs. Notre Dame in 1993. Notre Dame beats Florida State, then loses to Boston College the following week. Both are 10-1. Florida State gets the nod because they lost to #3 and Notre Dame lost to a mediocre unranked team. FSU had the better resume.

 

[Walkthedawg]

I like the idea of all bowl games too, but it's apparent the majority likes the home games, so I'm ok with that compromise. Plus it cuts down on travel costs and helps the college towns.

As long as the G6 is a part of FBS, they have to have a shot, something to play for. And they are good rewards for the top seeds. There has to be a slight amount of communism, which is another reason why a bigger playoff is better.

Notre Dame didn't get screwed. They played a lot of teams that finished in the bottom of the B1G and ACC.

and look at their schedule next year. They play a lot of the teams that finished at the bottom of the B1G and ACC again. I think 6 or 7 of their games are with teams that finished in the bottom 5 (or 6) of both conferences. That includes the very bottom two of the B1G and ACC. So four last two place teams in 2 conferences are on their schedule.

And if they miss it again next year. They are going to cry harder. That's one reason I despise those cretens.

it looks like it was a good call to put Miami in over them.

 

[L4Dawg]

See, you're just a moron who can't think past your own eyelids.

Head to head CAN'T matter because not everyone plays each other. It's resume vs resume. Not to mention this precedent has been set long ago.

Florida State vs. Notre Dame in 1993. Notre Dame beats Florida State, then loses to Boston College the following week. Both are 10-1. Florida State gets the nod because they lost to #3 and Notre Dame lost to a mediocre unranked team. FSU had the better resume.

Ah, your old standby, insults. Those really make your point. Congratulations on your very intellectual debating technique.

When choosing between two teams that DID play EACH OTHER, if you don't take the one that won you are ignoring an on the field result. If THOSE don't matter than why play the damn games at all. Just recruit and have a beauty contest.

 

[Perd Hapley]

they have to get the human element out as much as possible.

I agree. Come up with a transparent formula, and stick with it. Get rid of “eye test” and get rid of head-to-head as a consideration.

 

[40 acres and a mule]

I agree. Come up with a transparent formula, and stick with it. Get rid of “eye test” and get rid of head-to-head as a consideration.

Agree. Make the season mean something. Conference champs and 2nd place teams only. I don't know how many teams that would be, but if you need more "at large" teams to get to an appropriate number, it should be based on won-loss record, not someone's or some committee's opinion.

I know that probably eliminates MSU ever getting in, but we probably are not anyway. And UM wouldn't have this year.

 

[Perd Hapley]

If head to head doesn't matter, then why play the regular season at all.

Because the regular season isn’t “head-to-head”, it’s “head-to-head-to-head-to-head-to-head-to-head…..and on and on”. You’re not ever comparing only two teams for one spot in reality. It’s actually more like 7 teams competing for 3 spots, when very few of those teams played each other. It’s a composite performance. This ain’t the NFL where there are only 32 teams, and everyone plays 3 teams twice, and 11 other teams once. There’s not nearly as much cross-pollination.

Miami beats ND, they get credit for beating a 10-2 team with the #43 SOS. That’s where it should end. Take the team names off the resumes when judging them.

Just let the committee vote on their feelings about who would have been the best teams and go straight to the playoff.

This is pretty much what’s happening now. The committee reversed the Miami / ND order at the 11th hour based on absolutely nothing else besides “their feelings”. There was literally no other justification, because there wasn’t ANY new information on those two teams that was made available in the final week. It’s pure arbitrage.

 

[L4Dawg]

Because the regular season isn’t “head-to-head”, it’s “head-to-head-to-head-to-head-to-head-to-head…..and on and on”. You’re not ever comparing only two teams for one spot in reality. It’s actually more like 7 teams competing for 3 spots, when very few of those teams played each other. It’s a composite performance. This ain’t the NFL where there are only 32 teams, and everyone plays 3 teams twice, and 11 other teams once. There’s not nearly as much cross-pollination.

Miami beats ND, they get credit for beating a 10-2 team with the #43 SOS. That’s where it should end. Take the team names off theresumes when judging them.



This is pretty much what’s happening now. The committee reversed the Miami / ND order at the 11th hour based on absolutely nothing else besides “their feelings”. There was literally no other justification, because there wasn’t ANY new information on those two teams that was made available in the final week. It’s pure arbitrage.

Miami beat Notre Dame head to head. If it comes down to two teams that actually played each other for the last spot, you take the winner of the game. If you don't you just made a farce of the entire process. It really is that simple. I'm sorry your feelings got hurt but it HAS to be that way.

 

[Perd Hapley]

If Notre Dame had joined a conference they could have played their way in.

By this, do you mean that if only they were in a conference, they could have been in better position to benefit from blatant corruption of conference and TV network lobbying? Because, that’s the only benefit they would have gotten from being in a conference.

Hard to argue when you chose not to join a conference, played a generally weak schedule

They played a stronger schedule than Miami, and had no bad losses.

& lost to the only 2 decent teams you played.

They played three Top 15ish teams and beat one of them (USC). Not just two. Miami played one Top 15 team (ND), beat them at home by 3, in August, and had two horrible losses.

For the record, I’m not against Miami being in the field, or saying ND is definitively better. But I am saying you simply cannot move Miami up 3 spots in the final week and bump them ahead of not one, but two teams that they’d been behind in every set of rankings when Miami didn’t even play, one of the leapfrogged teams didn’t play, and no team that played Miami or ND played. It’s a joke.

 

[Perd Hapley]

it looks like it was a good call to put Miami in over them.

Or, wait for it, maybe they could have put both of them in?

 

[patdog]

By this, do you mean that if only they were in a conference, they could have been in better position to benefit from blatant corruption of conference and TV network lobbying? Because, that’s the only benefit they would have gotten from being in a conference.



They played a stronger schedule than Miami, and had no bad losses.



They played three Top 15ish teams and beat one of them (USC). Not just two. Miami played one Top 15 team (ND), beat them at home by 3, in August, and had two horrible losses.

For the record, I’m not against Miami being in the field, or saying ND is definitively better. But I am saying you simply cannot move Miami up 3 spots in the final week and bump them ahead of not one, but two teams that they’d been behind in every set of rankings when Miami didn’t even play, one of the leapfrogged teams didn’t play, and no team that played Miami or ND played. It’s a joke.

My position is Notre Dame could have joined a conference at any time & competed for a championship. They can stay independent all they want, but that puts them at a disadvantage in playoff selection.

 

[Perd Hapley]

My position is Notre Dame could have joined a conference at any time & competed for a championship. They can stay independent all they want, but that puts them at a disadvantage in playoff selection.

Well….Miami, Texas A&M, Ole Miss, Oklahoma, and Oregon were all in conferences, none “competed for a championship”, but all still made the playoff.

I don’t think that simply being independent keeps them out. Their schedule is stronger than 50-60% of P4 schools most years.

 

[Perd Hapley]

Miami beat Notre Dame head to head. If it comes down to two teams that actually played each other for the last spot, you take the winner of the game. If you don't you just made a farce of the entire process. It really is that simple. I'm sorry your feelings got hurt but it HAS to be that way.

You missed the entire point. I’ll just agree to disagree.

We’re not even talking about the same thing.

 

[L4Dawg]

You missed the entire point. I’ll just agree to disagree.

No, I I got it. I just thought your entire point was total BS. Seriously, it’s BS.