Wasn't hard for someone like Callahan. He wasn't even a good HC.
we should be consistently getting around 10th-11th ranked recruiting classes
- Thread starter WestCoastCornhusker
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Wasn't hard for someone like Callahan. He wasn't even a good HC.
Callahan as coach... 3 years removed from playing in the national championship game. Riley... 14 years removed from playing in the national championship game. You don't think the time in between makes a difference?
I don't understand how some posters expect Ne. to to be in the top 10-15 recruiting when we continue to hire coaches who can't break the top 50. Ne. is no longer relevant, nor will they be in the near future. Enjoy watching the Foster Farms Bowl in 2017.
BC had 1 top ten class, and that class had 30 commits, which was almost the most in the nation. Avg star rating that year was out of the top ten.
Im not saying its impossible to have a top 10 class here or there at Nebraska, Im simply saying the expectation of consistent top ten classes is frankly, absurd.
Not only that but the Rivals team ranking formula has changed as well.
Callahan's 2008 class ranked as high as #7 nationally before it became clear he was on the hot seat. Top Ten every year may not be realistic, but there's no reason we shouldn't be in the 10-20 range every year.
Irrelevant, different formula used by Rivals.
@Harry Caray (EDIT) Actually, the 2008 class, before deflections, would still be fairly high with the new formula. Plenty of top Rivals guys giving us major points. I don't remember everyone so if someone would post their names, I'll research it to see how many Rivals points they would've totaled.
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Exactly, I think we should expect a BC 2008 pre firing type class on average. Wether that #7 ranking is more like a #10 or 11 due to some changes in methods. BC had that class going in the face of a bad 2007 year. That is the problem with hiring guys with no "EDGE" in recruiting like Pelini and Riley.
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I agree. 15-20 is attainable, with the occasional jump into the top 10, and/or drop out of the top 25 based on class size. Every time the lofty recruiting talk surfaces, I like to ask the question of where we should be and why. Lets take the following 16 teams: Texas, OU, Texas A&M, OSU, Michigan, Bama, LSU, UGA, Tenn, Auburn, Florida, FSU, USC (Southern Cal), UCLA, Clemson, and Miami. Who of those 16 teams do we currently have a decided recruiting advantage over? Perhaps none. Arguments can easily be made that the following teams are also more attractive than Nebraska with regard to recruiting: Ole Miss, Baylor, Stanford, Oregon, PSU, MSU, TCU, Wisky, and Arky. The struggle is real.
My point is not to just throw our hands in air and accept that we are in the middle of the pack and should accept that as our lot in life. The point is that we have to work harder than ever to get over the recruiting hump, and that nothing is going to be easy for us probably ever again. However, A breakout season and a little luck along the way and that script can be flipped.
I have followed recruiting for many years. Don't believe NU has ever recruited to that standard. It's not realistic to expect consistent classes in the Top 10 or 11. Unless we plan on bending some rules, it's not realistic.
Historically, there's only been a handful of top five classes. I can recall only one number one class-- I think it was 1985. Mickey Joseph and Tommy Frazier were 1st team USA All-American QBs-- those were pretty big deals. Osborne's pre-dynasty 90's recruiting classes might have been top 10-- there were some questionable characters and academic risk recruits that panned out to make those classes better down the road. How many top ten classes did Callahan have? Two?
I think it's better to say top 20 and develop the kids. Beat teams with fourth and fifth year studs.
@Harry Caray I'll take a shot at it, let me know who should be added....
The below would give us 2,045 total points which would be #10 in the current 2016 class ranking.
Name, new Rivals points
Baker Steinkuhler, 224 points
Blaine Gabbert, 216 points
Trevor Robinson, 184 points
Jonas Gray, 173 points
Bryce Givens, 153 points
Shaun Mohler, 120 points
Will Compton, 105 points (first committed to Callahan staff)
David Whitmore, 105 points
Cam Meredith, 90 points
Collins Okafor, 90 points
Sean Fisher, 90 points
Josh Williams, 90 points (first committed to Callahan staff)
Tyson Hetzer, 75 points
Kyler Reed, 75 points
Doug Rippy, 75 points
Ricky Henry, 60 points
John Leverson, 60 points
Brandon Thompson, 60 points
Dean, now that Peelini is gone, his groupies have raised the bar on recruiting. Honestly, are you shocked?
The below would give us 2,045 total points which would be #10 in the current 2016 class ranking.
Name, new Rivals points
Baker Steinkuhler, 224 points
Blaine Gabbert, 216 points
Trevor Robinson, 184 points
Jonas Gray, 173 points
Bryce Givens, 153 points
Shaun Mohler, 120 points
Will Compton, 105 points (first committed to Callahan staff)
David Whitmore, 105 points
Cam Meredith, 90 points
Collins Okafor, 90 points
Sean Fisher, 90 points
Josh Williams, 90 points (first committed to Callahan staff)
Tyson Hetzer, 75 points
Kyler Reed, 75 points
Doug Rippy, 75 points
Ricky Henry, 60 points
John Leverson, 60 points
Brandon Thompson, 60 points
Dean, now that Peelini is gone, his groupies have raised the bar on recruiting. Honestly, are you shocked?
Conversely, now that Peelini is gone, his haters have lowered the bar on recruiting. I hate it. But it's true. Suddenly all of Peelini's recruiting classes are acceptable to us? No way man.
Callahan also had a bunch of very good recruiters. His staff blew away Pelini and Riley's staff on that front.
My point exactly. We could have a recruiting advantage over them if we had top-flight recruiters on staff. Until then, I guess we just hope to strike gold every once in a lifetime.
Cosgrove and Elmassion were known as great recruiters. Want them back? Elmassion couldn't teach a dog to chew a bone. How do you know that given our assets that the guys we have now won't end up being darned good recruiters? I'll answer it for you. You don't.
BC gad 2 in 4 years and the other 2 were in the teens. Should be the standard expectation.
Sorry, but neither do you. What I do know is that none of them are proven, program-changing recruiters.
Cos and Elmo? Really?
You're right, it should be. But no build up? Has to be this year? You act as if we are the Nebraska of the 90s or early 2000s... Something we haven't been for awhile now.
I kind of wish Bo was still coaching, just to see if you would be saying the same thing, or that we hired Frost last year to see what you would be saying.
Save a post, I know you will say you would be saying the same thing, but somehow I have a hard time believing that...
I remember both cos and Elmo as being questionable coaching hires, but the reason they were hired was for their recruiting. They were billed as top recruiters, believe it not.
I have been repeatedly banned for anti pelini regime posts. Is that your standard excuse for the new staff?
Your last sentence is the Iowa or MSU way and quite frankly our only way. We aren't getting top 10 classes. Stud recruiters aren't going to come here unless they're yiung and need to build the resume. Will last 2 to 3 years. Just look who we thought were our best recruiters the past 5 years and none are still here. Let's not forget TOs best recruiting job was getting Barry Switzerland to retire. Anyone who's followed OU/Neb for the past 30 years knows TO would not be where he is if Barry hadn't kegt OU. Not a knock on TO, but facts are facts.
That's why I threw frost into the equation as well. Would you be saying the same things with frost? Be objective now, it's easy to say I would... But would you really?
No, try to follow along... When the previous poster mentioned cos and Elmo as being good recruiters, you scoffed. I was reinforcing the previous poster's take. That is all. You made a leap here...
Let's not be snarky. I'm just asking some questions.
So you're OK with our current recruiters? They are the best we can do?
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No, not at all. We could do better. Ideally we would have the best recruiters who also coach well. How many schools have that? I am guessing not too many. Cos and Elmo could recruit but their coaching was not good.
What we have now some would say aren't good recruiters or coaches. That may be true. But I'm not ready to say that definitively yet. I liked the coachin down the stretch, and the recruiting will continue to improve I think. We will see.
To answer your question, these aren't the best recruiters, I would like better recruiters, as long as they can coach.
I would want a guy who has an identifiable "EDGE" he can use in recruiting. BC had that super bowl game and NFL. Does Frost have an "EDGE"? Maybe not that much right now.
No, BC recruiting. 05' #5, 06' #20, 07' #13, 08' #7 (pre-firing). This should be our baseline expectation. Ave.=11th.
You are set up for a long life of recruiting disappointment, and delusion.
Yes, we miss that level of recruiting done by a bad head coach. This should be our standard. Your fine being unranked at the end of the season half the time. Eventually we turn into Minnesota, your happy with that.
Bottom line and I don't think ANYONE can argue this, Nebraska's recruiting should be much better than it is. Our coaches just aren't salesman. They prove that nice guys finish last.
Sad thing is, a few of the people backing or at least accepting this staff's failures are people I know are salesman. Would your boss put up with this BS at your job? If you don't sale you don't eat. Sales are simple, ABC.
Want to talk about NU's barriers of entries? I see absolutely nothing that cant be overcome or skewed to a positive.
-75% of the schools out recruiting us are in worse cities then Lincoln NE. Ever been to Waco TX? It's a ********. Want to talk about the true reason the Branch Davidians all took their own life? They lived in this part of Texas.
-Oh, it gets cold up north? Well look at which teams are still alive in the NFL playoffs, 75% (6 out of 8) of them are northern teams. Why? Because the greats learn to play football in the cold.
Can't learn that playing in Gainsville Florida who has played like 1 game north of the Mason Dixon line in almost 30 years.
-How many great SEC QB's have there been in 10-15 years? None, you know why? They are all soft from never have played in the cold.
- Tuff football players play in the cold.
-Whose the best WR & RB in the NFL? Antonio Brown & Le'veon Bell. Where'd they play college football? In the north.
- Give my your top 5 QB's in the NFL... Tom Brady (Michigan - north), Drew Brees (Purdue - North), Big Ben (Miami OH - North), Russell Wilson (Wisconsin - North), & Aaron Rodgers ( Cal, but had to sit the bench for his first 3 years in the NFL cause he couldn't handle the cold weather)
- NU hasn't won anything in a while or been relevant? Ohio State, Bama, FSU, OU, ND, Auburn, Michigan, & pretty much all of the blue blood schools had this issue and over came this. It can be overcome.
Good guys weren't made to be salesman. Sorry, Id love to have a beer with each guy on our staff. I'd probably be BFF's with 85% of them. Hell I'd probably name a few (if I got to know them) godfather to my unborn son. But in no dam way would I hire any of them to be a saleman for my business.
Sad thing is, a few of the people backing or at least accepting this staff's failures are people I know are salesman. Would your boss put up with this BS at your job? If you don't sale you don't eat. Sales are simple, ABC.
Want to talk about NU's barriers of entries? I see absolutely nothing that cant be overcome or skewed to a positive.
-75% of the schools out recruiting us are in worse cities then Lincoln NE. Ever been to Waco TX? It's a ********. Want to talk about the true reason the Branch Davidians all took their own life? They lived in this part of Texas.
-Oh, it gets cold up north? Well look at which teams are still alive in the NFL playoffs, 75% (6 out of 8) of them are northern teams. Why? Because the greats learn to play football in the cold.
Can't learn that playing in Gainsville Florida who has played like 1 game north of the Mason Dixon line in almost 30 years.
-How many great SEC QB's have there been in 10-15 years? None, you know why? They are all soft from never have played in the cold.
- Tuff football players play in the cold.
-Whose the best WR & RB in the NFL? Antonio Brown & Le'veon Bell. Where'd they play college football? In the north.
- Give my your top 5 QB's in the NFL... Tom Brady (Michigan - north), Drew Brees (Purdue - North), Big Ben (Miami OH - North), Russell Wilson (Wisconsin - North), & Aaron Rodgers ( Cal, but had to sit the bench for his first 3 years in the NFL cause he couldn't handle the cold weather)
- NU hasn't won anything in a while or been relevant? Ohio State, Bama, FSU, OU, ND, Auburn, Michigan, & pretty much all of the blue blood schools had this issue and over came this. It can be overcome.
Good guys weren't made to be salesman. Sorry, Id love to have a beer with each guy on our staff. I'd probably be BFF's with 85% of them. Hell I'd probably name a few (if I got to know them) godfather to my unborn son. But in no dam way would I hire any of them to be a saleman for my business.
Agree with a lot of this... But isn't there a deadline for salesmen to show what they can do? Shouldn't Riley's deadline be Signing Day?
Totally agree with the rest (except Aaron Rodgers... he sat the first three seasons because Favre was ahead of him). All of the other programs you mentioned did eventually turn things around, and there's no reason to think we can't turn things around either. It may not be with this coach/these coaches,, but we will eventually turn things around. You already know where I stand, I do believe these coaches deserve a chance to turn it around (not just one season). If they don't they won't be here long. We will turn things around eventually.
I wouldn't always say nice guys finish last, TO eventually dominated. But NU use to have a small army of scouts/salesman types covering the whole country. Now only coaches can contact recruits. So it helps to have a few ace recruiters. TO also inherited a top program and started with a recruiting "EDGE" .
QUOTE="spinner4, post: 1626033, member: 2852"]Bottom line and I don't think ANYONE can argue this, Nebraska's recruiting should be much better than it is. Our coaches just aren't salesman. They prove that nice guys finish last.
Sad thing is, a few of the people backing or at least accepting this staff's failures are people I know are salesman. Would your boss put up with this BS at your job? If you don't sale you don't eat. Sales are simple, ABC.
Want to talk about NU's barriers of entries? I see absolutely nothing that cant be overcome or skewed to a positive.
-75% of the schools out recruiting us are in worse cities then Lincoln NE. Ever been to Waco TX? It's a ********. Want to talk about the true reason the Branch Davidians all took their own life? They lived in this part of Texas.
-Oh, it gets cold up north? Well look at which teams are still alive in the NFL playoffs, 75% (6 out of 8) of them are northern teams. Why? Because the greats learn to play football in the cold.
Can't learn that playing in Gainsville Florida who has played like 1 game north of the Mason Dixon line in almost 30 years.
-How many great SEC QB's have there been in 10-15 years? None, you know why? They are all soft from never have played in the cold.
- Tuff football players play in the cold.
-Whose the best WR & RB in the NFL? Antonio Brown & Le'veon Bell. Where'd they play college football? In the north.
- Give my your top 5 QB's in the NFL... Tom Brady (Michigan - north), Drew Brees (Purdue - North), Big Ben (Miami OH - North), Russell Wilson (Wisconsin - North), & Aaron Rodgers ( Cal, but had to sit the bench for his first 3 years in the NFL cause he couldn't handle the cold weather)
- NU hasn't won anything in a while or been relevant? Ohio State, Bama, FSU, OU, ND, Auburn, Michigan, & pretty much all of the blue blood schools had this issue and over came this. It can be overcome.
Good guys weren't made to be salesman. Sorry, Id love to have a beer with each guy on our staff. I'd probably be BFF's with 85% of them. Hell I'd probably name a few (if I got to know them) godfather to my unborn son. But in no dam way would I hire any of them to be a saleman for my business.[/QUOTE]
QUOTE="spinner4, post: 1626033, member: 2852"]Bottom line and I don't think ANYONE can argue this, Nebraska's recruiting should be much better than it is. Our coaches just aren't salesman. They prove that nice guys finish last.
Sad thing is, a few of the people backing or at least accepting this staff's failures are people I know are salesman. Would your boss put up with this BS at your job? If you don't sale you don't eat. Sales are simple, ABC.
Want to talk about NU's barriers of entries? I see absolutely nothing that cant be overcome or skewed to a positive.
-75% of the schools out recruiting us are in worse cities then Lincoln NE. Ever been to Waco TX? It's a ********. Want to talk about the true reason the Branch Davidians all took their own life? They lived in this part of Texas.
-Oh, it gets cold up north? Well look at which teams are still alive in the NFL playoffs, 75% (6 out of 8) of them are northern teams. Why? Because the greats learn to play football in the cold.
Can't learn that playing in Gainsville Florida who has played like 1 game north of the Mason Dixon line in almost 30 years.
-How many great SEC QB's have there been in 10-15 years? None, you know why? They are all soft from never have played in the cold.
- Tuff football players play in the cold.
-Whose the best WR & RB in the NFL? Antonio Brown & Le'veon Bell. Where'd they play college football? In the north.
- Give my your top 5 QB's in the NFL... Tom Brady (Michigan - north), Drew Brees (Purdue - North), Big Ben (Miami OH - North), Russell Wilson (Wisconsin - North), & Aaron Rodgers ( Cal, but had to sit the bench for his first 3 years in the NFL cause he couldn't handle the cold weather)
- NU hasn't won anything in a while or been relevant? Ohio State, Bama, FSU, OU, ND, Auburn, Michigan, & pretty much all of the blue blood schools had this issue and over came this. It can be overcome.
Good guys weren't made to be salesman. Sorry, Id love to have a beer with each guy on our staff. I'd probably be BFF's with 85% of them. Hell I'd probably name a few (if I got to know them) godfather to my unborn son. But in no dam way would I hire any of them to be a saleman for my business.[/QUOTE]
The point is that none of us know what these guys can do recruiting wise yet given NU's assets. None of them have had the kind of money and cred to work with in their previous jobs that they have now. Give them a chance before you yearn for hot bodies. There have been a ton of "great recruiters" that have failed miserably. Evaluation and coaching is as or more important IMO and this class is shaping up nicely IMO.
Yes...we need to give them time, and our evaluation before signing day is too soon. However, we will have a pretty good idea how they shape up come February.
However, just like a would cut some slack to a new sales guy (shoot, if I hired someone green I would know I would need to train them), I would not give the same slack to a guy who I hired with a wealth of experience (presumably at a higher cost). We went the experience route with our coaches. Thus, the coaching blunders this past year were far more disconcerting because of their experience. If we don't get it done by February in terms of recruiting and recruit near the levels of OSU that will be disconcerting as well. What's the old saying, "A leopard doesn't change his spots..."
LOL. No, you shouldn't be drawing those kinds of classes consistently. You're in the middle of nowhere. Should Florida State and USC only be drawing 21st- and 24th-ranked classes on average, respectively?
Dumb post.