Well Lebby seems to have his rallying cry for next year…..

[OG Goat Holder]

…..and that’s that we’re rallying the team around Taylor. The radio guys were already lapping that up Saturday after the game.

No matter that Lebby needs an accurate thrower.

No matter that he started him 4-5 games too late (if it’s what he really wanted to do - play for next year).

No matter that he likely cost us a chance at this year’s egg because Shapen was the only chance we had to win, due to downfield big play potential.

Lebby’s a nice guy. He’s a good OC. But he’s not head material at least right now. The track record is clear. Nobody seems to want to call this what it is, because it’s all about Ole Miss - another traditional mistake by MSU.

 

[DesotoCountyDawg]

Both QBs have/had the ability to have big play potential downfield. The biggest issue on offense (besides the horrible playcalling at times) is the offensive line. Neither one of them have time to make big plays because they have zero pocket time. Shapen halfway through the season was tucking and running because he sped his clock up waiting on some untouched DLineman to destroy him.

 

[horshack.sixpack]

KT os going to be good. He’s not making all the throws that he needs to but that could be lack of general experience, lack of practice with the ones causing timing issues, or lack of ability. I’m saying he has the ability and needs reps.

 

[John Deaux VII]

Both QBs have/had the ability to have big play potential downfield. The biggest issue on offense (besides the horrible playcalling at times) is the offensive line. Neither one of them have time to make big plays because they have zero pocket time. Shapen halfway through the season was tucking and running because he sped his clock up waiting on some untouched DLineman to destroy him.

This is correct. Cam Newton, Johnny Manziel, Robert Griffin III - name any dual threat Heisman winner from the past 15 years and each would struggle with the human turnstiles we called an OL protecting him.

 

[POTUS]

He’s not at his peak for throwing yet. But we also had several drops. #3 dropped three in a row.

 

[DesotoCountyDawg]

KT os going to be good. He’s not making all the throws that he needs to but that could be lack of general experience, lack of practice with the ones causing timing issues, or lack of ability. I’m saying he has the ability and needs reps.

Watching the Egg Bowl, KT played like the typical young athletic QB by relying on his legs by default. With enough reps and experience that will correct itself. He’s got a cannon of an arm.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

KT os going to be good. He’s not making all the throws that he needs to but that could be lack of general experience, lack of practice with the ones causing timing issues, or lack of ability. I’m saying he has the ability and needs reps.

Athletic ability yes, but I’m of the opinion you can’t really just ‘gain’ accuracy. And that is what makes a true dual threat rather than a runner playing QB.

Remember……even Dak missed some wide open reads when he was younger, as in, didn’t throw the ball……but he never really missed when he did throw. I do think that part comes with reps.

But Taylor straight up misses wide open dudes by 15 yards. He needs a Mullen, who can simply things. Not a Lebby, who makes them more complicated.

Typical MSU, never have things lined up appropriately. Which is why we need a consistent scheme for offense and never deviate.

 

[horshack.sixpack]

Athletic ability yes, but I’m of the opinion you can’t really just ‘gain’ accuracy. And that is what makes a true dual threat rather than a runner playing QB.

Remember……even Dak missed some wide open reads when he was younger, as in, didn’t throw the ball……but he never really missed when he did throw. I do think that part comes with reps.

But Taylor straight up misses wide open dudes by 15 yards. He needs a Mullen, who can simply things. Not a Lebby, who makes them more complicated.

Typical MSU, never have things lined up appropriately. Which is why we need a consistent scheme for offense and never deviate.

We saw different games. I saw timing issues on good reads mostly.

 

[DesotoCountyDawg]

Athletic ability yes, but I’m of the opinion you can’t really just ‘gain’ accuracy. And that is what makes a true dual threat rather than a runner playing QB.

Thats just a silly notion.

 

[Leeshouldveflanked]

We saw different games. I saw timing issues on good reads mostly.

The read is the hard part, timing and accuracy will come with playing time.

 

[Maroon13]

Well KT is all State football has to sell.

 

[bulldoghair]

Both QBs have/had the ability to have big play potential downfield. The biggest issue on offense (besides the horrible playcalling at times) is the offensive line. Neither one of them have time to make big plays because they have zero pocket time. Shapen halfway through the season was tucking and running because he sped his clock up waiting on some untouched DLineman to destroy him.

This is correct. Cam Newton, Johnny Manziel, Robert Griffin III - name any dual threat Heisman winner from the past 15 years and each would struggle with the human turnstiles we called an OL protecting him.

The OL’s poor performance stemmed from a combination of depth issues and scheme demands exacerbated by the extreme up-tempo offense under Jeff Lebby. But no one seems to understand this fundamental issue.
Thin rotations (5–6 deep) couldn’t handle the load. Most missed starts (SEC-high) tied to the “tempo tax”—+190–220 extra explosive reps per OL vs. slower SEC teams (ex. Vanderbilt’s 65.1 plays/game, #105 nat’l, healthiest OL fewest missed starts in SEC).
An overtaxed unit in a mismatched scheme—depth crisis + tempo demands = bottom-SEC disaster. Good luck in the portal and with NIL trying to convince good quality vets to sign up for this. If you do you’re going to pay a very high premium for hazard pay. Every reputable OL/DL agent now slaps a 25–40 % tempo surcharge on any school running 78+ plays with poor 3rd-down conversion. That’s why we had to overpay for one vet in Luke Work. You’re going to need a 9-10 man rotation of quality guys to run this BS in Starkville. On both sides.

 

[Leeshouldveflanked]

Athletic ability yes, but I’m of the opinion you can’t really just ‘gain’ accuracy. And that is what makes a true dual threat rather than a runner playing QB.

Remember……even Dak missed some wide open reads when he was younger, as in, didn’t throw the ball……but he never really missed when he did throw. I do think that part comes with reps.

But Taylor straight up misses wide open dudes by 15 yards. He needs a Mullen, who can simply things. Not a Lebby, who makes them more complicated.

Typical MSU, never have things lined up appropriately. Which is why we need a consistent scheme for offense and never deviate.

Dak had Les Koenning and Brian Johnson….

 

[Howiefeltersnstch]

Imo Shapen would have been sacked double digit times undoubtedly fumbling once or twice minimum. He cant escape the pocket and get first downs with his legs. Lebby 17d up not playing Kamario more during the year. I watched him get out of quite a few bad situations and get first downs. "Score from far" sounds cool but first downs win the game. 3 and outs kill the defense and ours sucks already

 

[bulldoghair]

Imo Shapen would have been sacked double digit times undoubtedly fumbling once or twice minimum. He cant escape the pocket and get first downs with his legs. Lebby 17d up not playing Kamario more during the year. I watched him get out of quite a few bad situations and get first downs. "Score from far" sounds cool but first downs win the game. 3 and outs kill the defense and ours sucks already

We had 3 three-and-outs in a row in the the 3Q of the Egg Bowl.
3 plays, 1:08
3 plays, 0:58
3 plays, 1:31
These drives accounted for 3:37 of total time of possession, allowing Ole Miss to score 17 unanswered points in just 4:03 of game clock (two TDs and a kickoff return TD). This sequence exemplifies the tempo tax- perpetuating the cycle of overload and boomerang effect. Different QB same story.

 

[johnson86-1]

We had 3 three-and-outs in a row in the the 3Q of the Egg Bowl.
3 plays, 1:08
3 plays, 0:58
3 plays, 1:31
These drives accounted for 3:37 of total time of possession, allowing Ole Miss to score 17 unanswered points in just 4:03 of game clock (two TDs and a kickoff return TD). This sequence exemplifies the tempo tax- perpetuating the cycle of overload and boomerang effect. Different QB same story.

Before NIL I think the high tempo offense was a really good deal for blue bloods. Forces you to get more people playing time on defense (somewhat negating the only downside blue bloods had, limited playing time) and when things are clicking completely wear out the other team.
With NIL, not sure it makes sense to play an offense that makes you rely on more depth on defense, particularly for non blue bloods. You are only going to be able to really spend on your first team and you want them playing as high of a percentage of defensive plays as possible.

 

[bulldoghair]

Before NIL I think the high tempo offense was a really good deal for blue bloods. Forces you to get more people playing time on defense (somewhat negating the only downside blue bloods had, limited playing time) and when things are clicking completely wear out the other team.
With NIL, not sure it makes sense to play an offense that makes you rely on more depth on defense, particularly for non blue bloods. You are only going to be able to really spend on your first team and you want them playing as high of a percentage of defensive plays as possible.

Exactly. That’s the route Vanderbilt went with.

 

[The Cooterpoot]

Athletic ability yes, but I’m of the opinion you can’t really just ‘gain’ accuracy. And that is what makes a true dual threat rather than a runner playing QB.

Remember……even Dak missed some wide open reads when he was younger, as in, didn’t throw the ball……but he never really missed when he did throw. I do think that part comes with reps.

But Taylor straight up misses wide open dudes by 15 yards. He needs a Mullen, who can simply things. Not a Lebby, who makes them more complicated.

Typical MSU, never have things lined up appropriately. Which is why we need a consistent scheme for offense and never deviate.

Accuracy wasn't his problem, it was timing. He was early and late with throws

 

[Ranchdawg]

The OL’s poor performance stemmed from a combination of depth issues and scheme demands exacerbated by the extreme up-tempo offense under Jeff Lebby. But no one seems to understand this fundamental issue.
Thin rotations (5–6 deep) couldn’t handle the load. Most missed starts (SEC-high) tied to the “tempo tax”—+190–220 extra explosive reps per OL vs. slower SEC teams (ex. Vanderbilt’s 65.1 plays/game, #105 nat’l, healthiest OL fewest missed starts in SEC).
An overtaxed unit in a mismatched scheme—depth crisis + tempo demands = bottom-SEC disaster. Good luck in the portal and with NIL trying to convince good quality vets to sign up for this. If you do you’re going to pay a very high premium for hazard pay. Every reputable OL/DL agent now slaps a 25–40 % tempo surcharge on any school running 78+ plays with poor 3rd-down conversion. That’s why we had to overpay for one vet in Luke Work. You’re going to need a 9-10 man rotation of quality guys to run this BS in Starkville. On both sides.

I would like to see where you got the agent data on surcharges.

 

[ETK99]

Before NIL I think the high tempo offense was a really good deal for blue bloods. Forces you to get more people playing time on defense (somewhat negating the only downside blue bloods had, limited playing time) and when things are clicking completely wear out the other team.
With NIL, not sure it makes sense to play an offense that makes you rely on more depth on defense, particularly for non blue bloods. You are only going to be able to really spend on your first team and you want them playing as high of a percentage of defensive plays as possible.

You realize OM was running pace against AL those years Saban struggled with them right? It wasn't a blue blood strategy, it was an equalizer. Texas Tech, Indiana, and almost every team in the playoffs use some form of pace at different times. It also prevents substitutions, not allowing more.

 

[bulldoghair]

I would like to see where you got the agent data on surcharges.

There is some paywall stuff where specifics are discussed. Also it’s pretty common knowledge with regards to portal recruiting.

 

[patdog]

You realize OM was running pace against AL those years Saban struggled with them right? It wasn't a blue blood strategy, it was an equalizer. Texas Tech, Indiana, and almost every team in the playoffs use some form of pace at different times. It also prevents substitutions, not allowing more.

Yeah. But teams have figured out how to defend pace now. It was new then. Our 1st drive offense was great all season. Then nothing for at least the next 30 minutes.

 

[Ranchdawg]

There is some paywall stuff where specifics are discussed. Also it’s pretty common knowledge with regards to portal recruiting.

I know it is common knowledge that LTs command the highest pay through NIL while RTs are second followed by Gs and Cs. The best LTs are going to receive the highest pay regardless of where they play. I'm sure agents are using pace as a negotiating tool but teams with lots of money can promise rotation as a counter. I'm sure there are negotiating nuances for every position because agents (lawyers) are going to create any tool to get the most money for themselves. It is sad that this is even a conversation about college football.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

Accuracy wasn't his problem, it was timing. He was early and late with throws

I hope you're right. I see everyone saying he could be Cam Newton-esque but we love to throw around that comparison and it rarely works out. Cam was 6' 5", 235 out of HS and had accuracy already, Kamario was 6' 3", 205 and doesn't.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

You realize OM was running pace against AL those years Saban struggled with them right? It wasn't a blue blood strategy, it was an equalizer. Texas Tech, Indiana, and almost every team in the playoffs use some form of pace at different times. It also prevents substitutions, not allowing more.

Most of those things were always first an advantage for non-blue bloods, and then if they were truly advantageous, the blue bloods eventually adopted them. But I do tend to agree with hair that the tempo thing is largely played out. I also think it's not a good thing for us......we need to slow the game down. We're never going to win track meets.

 

[gtowndawg]

The OL’s poor performance stemmed from a combination of depth issues and scheme demands exacerbated by the extreme up-tempo offense under Jeff Lebby. But no one seems to understand this fundamental issue.
Thin rotations (5–6 deep) couldn’t handle the load. Most missed starts (SEC-high) tied to the “tempo tax”—+190–220 extra explosive reps per OL vs. slower SEC teams (ex. Vanderbilt’s 65.1 plays/game, #105 nat’l, healthiest OL fewest missed starts in SEC).
An overtaxed unit in a mismatched scheme—depth crisis + tempo demands = bottom-SEC disaster. Good luck in the portal and with NIL trying to convince good quality vets to sign up for this. If you do you’re going to pay a very high premium for hazard pay. Every reputable OL/DL agent now slaps a 25–40 % tempo surcharge on any school running 78+ plays with poor 3rd-down conversion. That’s why we had to overpay for one vet in Luke Work. You’re going to need a 9-10 man rotation of quality guys to run this BS in Starkville. On both sides.

I've read something similar, not encouraging at all. What scares me is our administration and coaching staff probably have no idea that's even a thing....

 

[bulldoghair]

I know it is common knowledge that LTs command the highest pay through NIL while RTs are second followed by Gs and Cs. The best LTs are going to receive the highest pay regardless of where they play. I'm sure agents are using pace as a negotiating tool but teams with lots of money can promise rotation as a counter. I'm sure there are negotiating nuances for every position because agents (lawyers) are going to create any tool to get the most money for themselves. It is sad that this is even a conversation about college football.

Portal offensive linemen and their agents view Mississippi State’s 2025 film as a “red-flag parade”. With 81.4 offensive plays per game (#1 nationally), tempo 22.2 seconds per play (#1 SEC #3 nationally), the tape shows constant chaos: most three-and-outs in the SEC, O-lines gassed by Q3 (62.4 PFF 4th-quarter grade, -11% fade from 1H’s 72.1) and 32% pressures in 2H (vs. 24% 1H). Agents whisper about the “tempo tax”—25–40% higher NIL demands for the injury roulette: most OL missed starts in SEC- as reps overload (+190–220 extra explosive per OL vs. slower peers like Vanderbilt) with thin 5-6 OL rotation. They say, “Why risk your Pro Day for Starkville when Vandy pays less for a clean film?” The effect? State gets ghosted on top targets and then with mid-tier NIL overpays for Luke Work and JUCO scraps. Agents to MSU: “Great scheme on paper… until the tape shows the body count.”

Then likewise for defensive linemen. It’s the boomerang effect of Lebby’s offense and its issues. With thin rotations (5–6 deep) and perpetuating overload (78.4 def. snaps/game, #1 SEC #3 nationally), the tape shows a highlight real of exhaustion and cardiac drift with DLs chasing ghosts in Q4 (58.9 PFF grade, -18% fade from 1H’s 72.1), allowing 7.1 YPP late (vs. 4.5 early) and 28 explosives in 2H (vs. 12 1H). MSU DL film is a slow-mo car crash— they say, “Why chase sacks when you’re too gassed to stand up?” Vandy’s anti-tempo (65.1 plays, #105 nationally) might pay less but show cleaner film- lower risk. The effect? Again ghosted by top targets and mid-tier overpays for scraps.

 

[bulldoghair]

Most of those things were always first an advantage for non-blue bloods, and then if they were truly advantageous, the blue bloods eventually adopted them. But I do tend to agree with hair that the tempo thing is largely played out. I also think it's not a good thing for us......we need to slow the game down. We're never going to win track meets.

Back in those days Hugh Freeze and Ole Miss didn’t have to deal with the portal transfer thing every year. They had top 5 recruiting and had a 9-10 man rotation of quality guys on the line. Their third down conversion rate was close to 50% every year (top-5 to top-10 nationally.
2012–2016 Hugh Freeze tempo = Fast + elite talent + elite sustain + no portal/NIL scrutiny→ actual rest for the defense → no boomerang.

2025 pure tempo (Lebby style) = Faster tempo then Hugh’s back then+ mid-tier talent + poor sustain + portal agents watching Q4 film like it’s a horror movie.

Freeze’s tempo was a Ferrari with a full tank and a pit crew. Lebby’s tempo is a Ferrari with bald tires, no spare, and a drunk driver who refuses to stop for gas. Same idea on paper. Completely different sport in practice because the talent gap, depth gap, and information gap all flipped

 

[bulldoghair]

5 star Bralan Womack flip sounds nice. But he’s not a OL or DL.​

 

[campshelbydog1116]

There is no way anyone with a brain watched that game and thought that we played the wrong quarterback.

 

[patdog]

There is no way anyone with a brain watched that game and thought that we played the wrong quarterback. I refuse to believe anyone is actually that stupid.

We came in averaging 27 points per SEC game. UMiss came in giving up 26. We scored 19. We scored 2nd fewest points in an SEC game and UMiss gave up 2nd fewest in an SEC game. We may have played the wrong QB.

 

[bulldoghair]

We came in averaging 27 points per SEC game. UMiss came in giving up 26. We scored 19. We scored 2nd fewest points in an SEC game and UMiss gave up 2nd fewest in an SEC game. We may have played the wrong QB.

Don’t come in here with your facts and real metrics. Most on here don’t care.

 

[TPIPER36]

KT is the clear future of the program. That’s all that I know

 

[campshelbydog1116]

We came in averaging 27 points per SEC game. UMiss came in giving up 26. We scored 19. We scored 2nd fewest points in an SEC game and UMiss gave up 2nd fewest in an SEC game. We may have played the wrong QB.

Shapen would have gotten murdered behind the OL that played Friday. Did you actually watch? Shapen would have been in a body bag. He could have been fine behind a competent OL. The one that played Friday would have gotten him destroyed. KT is literally the only reason we were remotely in the game.

 

[campshelbydog1116]

Don’t come in here with your facts and real metrics. Most on here don’t care.

Now do turnover metrics per game and pick 6's and actually look at who was in at quarterback on about 35 of those points that were scored during SEC play instead of making yourself look like an idiot.

 

[MaroonMonkey26]

…..and that’s that we’re rallying the team around Taylor. The radio guys were already lapping that up Saturday after the game.

No matter that Lebby needs an accurate thrower.

No matter that he started him 4-5 games too late (if it’s what he really wanted to do - play for next year).

No matter that he likely cost us a chance at this year’s egg because Shapen was the only chance we had to win, due to downfield big play potential.

Lebby’s a nice guy. He’s a good OC. But he’s not head material at least right now. The track record is clear. Nobody seems to want to call this what it is, because it’s all about Ole Miss - another traditional mistake by MSU.

Had Shapen played in that game you’d be looking at 45-6.

 

[Darryl Steight]

Athletic ability yes, but I’m of the opinion you can’t really just ‘gain’ accuracy. And that is what makes a true dual threat rather than a runner playing QB.

Remember……even Dak missed some wide open reads when he was younger, as in, didn’t throw the ball……but he never really missed when he did throw. I do think that part comes with reps.

But Taylor straight up misses wide open dudes by 15 yards. He needs a Mullen, who can simply things. Not a Lebby, who makes them more complicated.

Typical MSU, never have things lined up appropriately. Which is why we need a consistent scheme for offense and never deviate.

KaMario was 30 of 55 on the year, for 54.5% completion rate.

Lamar Jackson college career completion percentage:

• 2015 Freshman: 54.7% (135-247)
• 2016 Sophomore: 56.2% (230-409)
• 2017 Junior: 59.1% (254-430)
• Career: 57.0% (619-1,086)
• Side note 1: Passed for 9,043 yards and 69 touchdowns.
• Side note 2: Won the Heisman Trophy with that shittty pass completion %.

I'll take it. Maybe we should have given KaMario 247 opportunities this year.

 

[HotMop]

…..and that’s that we’re rallying the team around Taylor. The radio guys were already lapping that up Saturday after the game.

No matter that Lebby needs an accurate thrower.

No matter that he started him 4-5 games too late (if it’s what he really wanted to do - play for next year).

No matter that he likely cost us a chance at this year’s egg because Shapen was the only chance we had to win, due to downfield big play potential.

Lebby’s a nice guy. He’s a good OC. But he’s not head material at least right now. The track record is clear. Nobody seems to want to call this what it is, because it’s all about Ole Miss - another traditional mistake by MSU.

KT just performed well against a CFB playoff team in his first start. He didn't allow himself to get into any of those 0.6 second sacks was a huge difference, they were protecting against the run, something all teams didn't care about with Shapen.

 

[Darryl Steight]

We came in averaging 27 points per SEC game. UMiss came in giving up 26. We scored 19. We scored 2nd fewest points in an SEC game and UMiss gave up 2nd fewest in an SEC game. We may have played the wrong QB.

As has been pointed out then beaten to death... it sure would have been nice for the final game, against our rival and the #6/7 team in the land, not to have been his FIRST meaningful action of the season.

That blame belongs to only one person.

 

[patdog]

As has been pointed out then beaten to death... it sure would have been nice for the final game, against our rival and the #6/7 team in the land, not to have been his FIRST meaningful action of the season.

That blame belongs to only one person.

Agree. Either he should have been starting by mid season or Shapen should have started the Egg Bowl. Lebby's decisions are seemingly random and impulsive.