What’s wrong with our basketball team?

Maroon13

All-Conference
Sep 29, 2022
3,614
3,697
113
I don't care what MSU website list these players height at, I was at the Bama and UK game. They are taller and thicker than us, almost to a man.

Which is why you see all these guys have difficultly shooting and rebounding in games, v AU, UK, UT, Bama and UF.

I will say this. These guys give it their best.
 

The Cooterpoot

Heisman
Sep 29, 2022
6,863
11,973
113
I will say this. These guys give it their best.
No they don't, they fold up like a cheap lawn chair. Jans didn't get a C and his PG is hurt but we've got to recruit better. The portal hasn't been good to us. Taking too many baggage kids.
 
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OopsICroomedmypants

All-Conference
Sep 29, 2022
1,975
2,689
113
IMO, slow the game down. And hit big shots. We hit on the run and gun but it doesn’t make sense to play fast when we can’t cover with the reciprocal big open shots from better teams. Simply, we can not outscore the top half, why keep trying? Slow it. Last I’ll say about that
Astute observation. We need coach to adapt his approach against teams when what we are doing isn't working. I've seen some creativity from Jans, so I know he can do it, but he seems reluctant to make changes on the fly. I know most teams don't do it anymore, but a good half court offense with set plays instead of running the weave above the free throw line is hard to beat.
 
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OopsICroomedmypants

All-Conference
Sep 29, 2022
1,975
2,689
113
The trap is leading to wide open 3’s for opposition. Everyone we play, even bad teams, are better at wide open 3’s than contested ones. It’s just the good teams we play are more adept at finding that open shot out of the trap. This is why it seems like every team we play “just happens” to shoot the lights out against us. It’s the trap. We should stop it.
I'd argue they aren't running the trap correctly. When you trap, everyone rotates to cover the nearest person that could receive a pass, because the offensive player all the way across the court is nearly impossible to pass it to. We trap and leave a guard open on the 3 point line, usually in the corner.
 
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HRMSU

All-Conference
Apr 26, 2022
1,416
1,275
113
The trap is leading to wide open 3’s for opposition. Everyone we play, even bad teams, are better at wide open 3’s than contested ones. It’s just the good teams we play are more adept at finding that open shot out of the trap. This is why it seems like every team we play “just happens” to shoot the lights out against us. It’s the trap. We should stop it.
We don't have the athleticism to recover on D and close out on the shooter. It's not the design it's the talent but as a coach you should realize that and adjust.....back off the aggressiveness from time to time. It's like we are blitzing in football on every play leaving good not great corners on an island.
 
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HRMSU

All-Conference
Apr 26, 2022
1,416
1,275
113
How Jans hasn't seen this at this point in the season makes me think he's a stubborn person. EVERY time we doubled the post they knew it was coming and kicked it out for a WIDE open 3
Yes! Has to be stubborn or no bend in expectations. This defense isn't new.....this roster is. This defense can trap and close out disrupting 3s but this roster can't. The question is can Jans adjust or is he kind of a one trick pony....a very good one with the right players but limited. That could be dangerous for us because we haven't consistently landed the type of players he needs to take a step forward.
 

MSUDC11-2.0

Heisman
Sep 29, 2022
8,914
13,870
113
I think nonconference skewed our perception of things. We went into the year believing that was a tough nonconference schedule and in actuality it’s pretty mediocre. Memphis was a nice win but SMU is a bubble team and Pitt flat out stinks. And those are the high points.

We had an inflated sense of how good we were and now have gotten into SEC play and it’s pretty clear we do not have the caliber team that the top half of the league has.
 
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HRMSU

All-Conference
Apr 26, 2022
1,416
1,275
113
found the problem

we have no scorers other than Hubbard and yes Kugel needs to shoot about 10-12 more shots a game
Problem with Kugel is he's a turnover waiting to happen on the dribble and he has zero desire to play defense. He needs to be a catch and shoot guy with some screens run for him.
 

o_HuntDawg

All-Conference
Oct 25, 2018
3,220
1,583
113
I think nonconference skewed our perception of things. We went into the year believing that was a tough nonconference schedule and in actuality it’s pretty mediocre. Memphis was a nice win but SMU is a bubble team and Pitt flat out stinks. And those are the high points.

We had an inflated sense of how good we were and now have gotten into SEC play and it’s pretty clear we do not have the caliber team that the top half of the league has.
This. Just because its a tougher non conference than we've traditionally played... its just pretty average in the big scheme of things.

The only way this team was going to meet the expectations of this board was to shoot at an elite level.... just not enough talent.. and gets exposed easily. Its hard to draw up a plan B both offensively and defensively with this roster.
 
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MSUDC11-2.0

Heisman
Sep 29, 2022
8,914
13,870
113
This. Just because it’s a tougher non conference than we've traditionally played... it’s just pretty average in the big scheme of things.

And to be fair, Pitt was a Top 25 team when we smoked them so I totally get being wooly about that performance. Same deal as the Butler loss, we didn’t know they’d be a sub .500 team when they beat us. On paper it looked like a better schedule than it ended up being, and it’s still a lot better than many of our SEC peers. It just tricked us into thinking we were a Top 10 team when we never were.
 

o_HuntDawg

All-Conference
Oct 25, 2018
3,220
1,583
113
And to be fair, Pitt was a Top 25 team when we smoked them so I totally get being wooly about that performance. Same deal as the Butler loss, we didn’t know they’d be a sub .500 team when they beat us. On paper it looked like a better schedule than it ended up being, and it’s still a lot better than many of our SEC peers. It just tricked us into thinking we were a Top 10 team when we never were.
Which is why the programs that are trying to be sure they are tested... schedule 5-6-7 of these teams in the non conference in case 2-3 dont live up to the billing.
 

Faustdog

All-Conference
Jun 4, 2007
3,979
2,234
113
Problem with Kugel is he's a turnover waiting to happen on the dribble and he has zero desire to play defense. He needs to be a catch and shoot guy with some screens run for him.
Cam has more than double the number of turnovers in SEC play as Kugel. And Hubbard is an actual nightmare defensively.

I'd rather have Kugel playing D than Hubbard all day long. Kugel is a guy who needs to be on the floor more, and he needs to be given more freedom. It's got to be rough knowing that you're getting pulled if you make a mistake, while watching Hubbard jack up awful shots and Cam turn the ball over.

Hubbard is now shooting a cool 40% from the floor, and his shot selection has been atrocious.

Having said that, I'm very happy Hubbard is a Bulldog, and I love Cam Matthews. Glad to have them. But if we're placing blame, they carry a hefty share.
 

o_HuntDawg

All-Conference
Oct 25, 2018
3,220
1,583
113
Cam has more than double the number of turnovers in SEC play as Kugel. And Hubbard is an actual nightmare defensively.

I'd rather have Kugel playing D than Hubbard all day long. Kugel is a guy who needs to be on the floor more, and he needs to be given more freedom. It's got to be rough knowing that you're getting pulled if you make a mistake, while watching Hubbard jack up awful shots and Cam turn the ball over.

Hubbard is now shooting a cool 40% from the floor, and his shot selection has been atrocious.

Having said that, I'm very happy Hubbard is a Bulldog, and I love Cam Matthews. Glad to have them. But if we're placing blame, they carry a hefty share.
Not to mentioned hubbard whose playing 34 minutes a game... has 6 steals in SEC play. He doesnt even try on the defensive end and its allowed.

Agree with the last sentence. Think both would fit in great if there were better players around them. Seems we are trying to force them into roles that dont fit their styles due to sheer lack of roster talent.
 

Villagedawg

All-Conference
Nov 16, 2005
2,003
1,964
113
I think the biggest thing wrong with it is our expectations. We thought we were better than we are, and it sucks when the reality sets in. We are a pretty good team, but the rest of the league is pretty damn good too if not better.
 

basedawg

Senior
Aug 22, 2012
852
554
93
I think the biggest thing is some of our early wins weren’t really as good as they maybe looked at the time & we’ve played a killer schedule the first 11 SEC games. I think we’re just a team that beats most non top 20 teams, but is rarely going to beat a top 20 teams
Chemistry
 

HomeBoyDawg

All-Conference
Oct 22, 2013
1,332
1,238
93
Kugel leads the team in three point shooting in SEC games by a wide margin over Hubbard and everyone else. Yes, Melendez has been atrocious at 19%.
Agreed but percentages alone can be misleading. Hub has 36 3s or 108 points compared to Kugel’s 14 or 42 points. Also, Hub is getting a lot more attention than Kugel on his shots. Regardless, as someone has pointed out, Kugel needs to shoot more 3s.
 

POTUS

Heisman
Sep 29, 2022
3,905
10,327
113
Bottom line, we have one rather short player who is a consistent three point threat and every team is game planning for him. Then it's Kugel. Then it's a ghost town. Nwoko, Matthews, & Murphy really shouldn't ever try one. Looks like Melendez, Harris & Jones shouldn't either. In this day and age of basketball, that's a losing formula.
 

Podgy

All-Conference
Oct 1, 2022
3,583
4,092
113
We're getting exposed in the SEC. I still wouldn't be surprised if the team makes the Sweet 16 because of a decent tourney draw. It's a good team that plays really well at times. The SEC is just loaded this year.
 

BreckyBratt

Senior
Nov 5, 2022
861
994
93
1. Cant play man to man defense b/c Hubbard is awful and short and Cam cant match up with opposing teams 4 players. Thus forcing double teams and wide open 3s. If we didnt double, they'd attack hubbard or Cam on the block and the results would like be worse.

2. Cant play zone because other teams have shooters

3. Cant run an offense b/c our point guard or ball handler isnt really a point guard, but you cant play a 5-9 guy at 2 guard in this league and be successful either. Combine that with the fact that he's looking to shoot a bad shot 3x's before passing to someone for a good shot... and you have an issue... plus this behavior is being allowed by the coaching staff

4. We have at least 2 players on the floor at all times that arent offensively threats. Allow teams to focus on the offensive threats we have on the floor.

5. We arent as talented as the top tier teams... and those teams have different ways to win.. and can tailor a game plan to give us trouble regardless of what we do.
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Great take HD!
 

HRMSU

All-Conference
Apr 26, 2022
1,416
1,275
113
Cam has more than double the number of turnovers in SEC play as Kugel. And Hubbard is an actual nightmare defensively.

I'd rather have Kugel playing D than Hubbard all day long. Kugel is a guy who needs to be on the floor more, and he needs to be given more freedom. It's got to be rough knowing that you're getting pulled if you make a mistake, while watching Hubbard jack up awful shots and Cam turn the ball over.

Hubbard is now shooting a cool 40% from the floor, and his shot selection has been atrocious.

Having said that, I'm very happy Hubbard is a Bulldog, and I love Cam Matthews. Glad to have them. But if we're placing blame, they carry a hefty share.
Chill....not placing all the blame on him. He's a role player at best and maybe you should look at TO/minute played or touches but I really don't care enough about the argument. He among others don't take care of the ball there.