Well Texas a&m and Miami both beat notre dame
What a damn joke.
- Thread starter Perd Hapley
- Start date
You should probably talk to your other username @85Bears
Absurd claim. We could sit down and look at history to show how many times espn employees have predicted incorrectly and the SEC didn't benefit.
Just absurd.
Then you should say the same about people who complain about Bama being treated differently due to their past.
After all, a team's past has nothing to do with this season...right?
This is like complaining when Maryland Eastern Shore makes the NCAA Tournament through winning their Conference Tournament.
Both tournaments(playoff, excuse me) reserve some spots for the lesser folk to participate.
It's known. It's established. It shouldn't be surprising.
No golden goose is being killed just because Notre Dame was left out of the CFP.
Good lord, reign it in. You are an emotional wreck right now.
College football tradition was destroyed years ago.
What we now have is a new tradition- one where we celebrate maximizing revenue.
ESPN isn't the one doing this either- it's the conferences. The conferences chose to prioritize revenue over tradition.
You and others in this thread and everywhere are missing the entire point.
It has nothing to do who’s better between Miami and ND. That argument is subjective, pointless, and unending. Arguing about whether Miami or ND is most deserving is exactly what this clownshow committee wants all the simps to be doing right now. It distracts from the fact that they intentionally conspired to create this scenario where that controversy would arise, when they had predetermined the chosen winner of that debate based on other game results (and it wasn’t the same team every time).
It boils down to this:
- Team A is ranked #10 with one week to go
- Team B is ranked #11 with one week to go
- EVERYTHING that can possibly be known about Team A and Team B is already known….with one week to go. There is no new data at all to be gained.
- Therefore, final rankings should reflect that same order, unless another team falls between them.
- In the end, Team A drops to #11.
- Team B goes up to #10.
That simply cannot happen. We’ve known for 13 weeks that ND lost to Miami. If it matters this week, it mattered last week, too. THAT is the corruption.
Personally, I just think the committee is lazy and not that smart/thoughtful, rather than evil and corrupt. These rankers, whether its the AP Poll or the CFP Committee routinely just forget about teams and games and results.
They should fire the committee and replace them with a bunch of data nerds with a math/stats background, and have that committee consider every possible dyad of 2 teams in the top 40 and make sure that every single relative placement is well justified.
They should fire the committee and replace them with a bunch of data nerds with a math/stats background, and have that committee consider every possible dyad of 2 teams in the top 40 and make sure that every single relative placement is well justified.
I never realized there were so many closeted notre dame fans around here.
You think that the lazy, unintelligent, unthoughtful committee just happened to allegedly “come to its senses” at the exact moment that it became clear an entire P4 conference was about to get shut out of the CFP?
Okay then.
I agree with patdog's response
Additionally they play the games publicly so what other transparency is necessary? We all can see the games. The final rankings are the only ones that count.
It's like preseason pools historically have screwed up college football. A bunch of people just make up a list based on basically no data. Once they make that first list, every weekly list after it is the job of that list maker to try and prove how smart they were with the initial list. So they don't drop teams on close wins. They don't raise a team that loses a close game to a much higher ranked team even though that can be proof they are the second best team. They get stuck on imaginary data. Now I know the committee does wait a few weeks before the initial list but historically successful schools still get preferential rankings. If you want to pick the 12 best teams for a season it should be done with ALL the data for THAT season alone. That means one official list at the end.
I think they work a little harder on the final rankings and phone it in earlier in the season.
None of that explains how you can change the final order of two critical teams….based on nothing besides the passage of time. And that’s what happened.
Sure….agree 100%. That’s my entire point. As far as ND and Miami are concerned, ALL the data for THAT season alone was already available last week for those 2 teams. There was nothing new to be learned about either of them this past weekend.
That doesn’t mean neither is allowed to move in the final rankings, but it does mean you absolutely cannot change the order of those 2 teams relative to each other. Yet they did, and they had a very specific and obvious purpose for doing so that had nothing to do with which one was actually better.
Okay. Do you think if Virginia beat Duke, that Miami and Virginia are both in the field, with ND out? Yes or no?
Yes, I think they never really even considered how Miami and Notre Dame should rank in relation to each other until they had to think a little harder in the final week. This isn't the first time that they've flipped some teams in the last week to something that made more sense.
I really don't think that Notre Dame would be the victim of corrupt rankers.
Alabama gets in. Notre Dame out. And Miss State gets a premium bowl game at 5-7
Allow for another option: Incompetence
I know one of the committee members. I have seen his decision making for years. I’ve heard his logic in decision making. I have talked to him a few times. He’s a man of integrity and he’s a moron. He has no business being a FBS AD at this point. He has no business being on this committee.
I 100% believe he believes that because BYU lost and Miami / ND are side by side, NOW head to head matters. He’s that kind of moron to ignore it for 14 weeks then it matters week 15.
I don’t think it’s corruption, it’s giving votes to morons who have no business voting.
It's only viewed as a joke if you dont understand the established selection process.
If you do understand the selection process and just dislike it, erll fair enough. I wouldn't think those would call the selection proces a joke since that seems to imply selections are fully based on most deserving, but it's understandable if you dislike the selection process.
Don’t be a dick man. I think most understood what I meant. Simply stating putting these two in is a joke is a reflection of the system/process.
Ok then let me ask you this. Were you aware of ALL of these moves that happened over the past several weeks, all of which were every bit as questionable as the last minute leap frog over ND, and ALL of which directly led to Miami / ND being nearly side by side in the rankings for the final week:
1) From Week 10 to Week 11:
- Miami (7-2) goes from #18 to #15
- Miami goes 5 spots ahead of a Louisville team that’s also 7-2, and that Louisville team beat them in Coral Gables.
- Miami passes 8-1 Georgia Tech, who didn’t even play that weekend
- Miami goes 4 spots ahead of 8-2 Virginia, who had a road win over that 7-2 Louisville team above.
2) From Week 11 to Week 12:
- Miami goes from #15 to #13
- Miami leapfrogs Vanderbilt, who didn’t play that weekend. Vandy had the same record as Miami, but had that record against the #25 SOS whereas Miami was playing against the #45 SOS. Really no justification at all for this move.
- This happens from no discernible data other than Miami beating NC State at home. NC State finished 7-5, in the awful ACC, and at no point was anywhere near the CFP rankings.
- Meanwhile, ND stays at #9. Oklahoma moves ahead of them all the way from the #11 spot to #8 from the Bama win. This one was understandable but still a bit questionable. Bama falls right behind them to #10, which becomes important later.
Week 12 to Week 13
- Miami moves up AGAIN over a team with the same record, without that team losing. This time it’s Utah…a team with no bad losses.
- Vanderbilt somehow does not move past Utah in spite of having a superior profile as well.
- Miami now at #12, ND at #9
Week 13 to Week 14
- Remember when Bama fell back behind ND after OU game? Now, suddenly Bama jumps back ahead of ND, from nothing other than barely scraping by a bad Auburn team with an interim coach.
- Meanwhile, Texas beats Texas A&M, and now has wins over two CFP teams in OU and Texas A&M (both better than any Miami win) Yes they are 9-3, but have that record strictly due to scheduling Ohio State on the road instead of a Sun Belt or FCS school. Regardless, they do not get the same favorable treatment Miami got a few weeks prior with Georgia Tech and Virginia, and later on with BYU.
- ND falls back to #10, Miami still at #12.
Week 14 to Week 15
- Miami and ND do not play, and no previous opponent of either team plays.
- Bama falls back zero spots after getting absolutely pummeled by UGA, when that would have allowed ND to move back up to #9. BYU doesn’t get the same treatment.
- Miami still moves up two spots from #12 to #10.
- ND moves back one spot to #11 as has been discussed ad nauseum.
- What has not been discussed is this, which is 17ing nuts: Miami also passed 11-2 BYU. BYU had a better record, a stronger SOS (#22 vs. #45), no bad losses, and a win over Utah that was every bit as good as Miami’s win over ND. You can explain the Miami vs. ND somewhat based on H2H. You cannot explain this one at all.
Add it all up, there are NINE other completely unjustifiable moves that either directly benefitted Miami or directly hurt ND. All of these happened over a period where neither team lost a game, or picked up a quality win. Incompetence and idiocy is random. A baffling shuffle happens once, a tad suspicious but maybe just a mistake. 9 or 10 times? GTFO. This was calculated. I don’t see how any objective person can look at all those facts and reach any other conclusion.
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Really wasnt intending to be a dick.
Each year, it seems like a ton of people are outraged and confused as to why Fairfield makes the NCAA Tournament and why their beloved university that was rated 40th was left out and not selected.
'Its 68 teams, why wasnt the 40th team picked?!'
Meanwhile, part of what makes the tournament entertaining is the upsets. It actually creates a ton of discussion and coverage through every round.
Now for football, the chances of Cinderella upsets are much more difficult because there is so much more separation between the haves and the havenots, obviously.
But allowing for some potential upsets is kinda cool- its not like whoever is rated 11th or 12th has much of a chance to win it all, so if a smaller program sneaks in- cool.
Tulane and JMU made it because they were rated high enough in the CFP polls and won their Conference Championships. That put them in a spot to auto-qualify.
Duke crying about being left out with an 8-5 record(lost to Tulane) is pathetic.
As a general rule in life, I have found that not siding with Skip Bayless has proven to be successful.
This is a great argument for why they just need to meet 1 time and produce the rankings. The weekly updates are garbage.
I'm way more inclined to believe that the committee members just don't put effort into their weekly rankings and don't even remember where they ranked which teams the last week, as opposed to that they had some kind of intentional conspiracy to screw over college football's most iconic, popular, and lucrative team.
You think they don’t look at the previous week’s rankings at all? Really? I guarantee you that’s the first thing passed around the room every Monday.
Again, there were TEN different unjustifiable shifts in the rankings that occurred over the 5 weeks. ALL of them were either to Miami’s advantage or Notre Dame’s disadvantage….mostly Miami’s advantage.
“Forgetting where they ranked the teams the last week”? The only team they kept “forgetting about” was Miami. Literally every single other team was range-bound based on the results taking place around them. Quite convenient that the one team they kept forgetting about was the one they needed the most to keep an entire P4 conference from getting left out.
Either way, even if you’re right and its just straight incompetence…..why are we trusting them to get it right on the last and most important release when they are 17ing it up so badly every single week beforehand?
I’d counter that you are making a great argument to get rid of the committee entirely and move straight to a computers / metrics based selection criteria with zero human override once the criteria is agreed upon.
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I'm good with replacing the committee with computer rankings, as long as the formulas are mathematically valid and place the proper emphasis on head-to-head results. For example, forget Miami - a lot of people say Notre Dame should have gotten in ahead of Texas A&M, who had a better record (on a tougher schedule) and won in South Bend. That would have been pretty outrageous if that had happened, even if Notre Dame crushed enough scrubs to make their metrics look really good.
As far as the current incompetence goes, I think the committee never even thought about the Miami/Notre Dame relative placements until people started talking about it this week.
Like I said on another thread, I think they should only meet 1 time because I don't think midseason perceptions should count for anything, and that having the rankings every week creates a perception that they need to stick to those rankings unless teams lose. But more importantly, they need to publish a long document that goes team by team in the rankings and justifies why each team is ahead of each other team. So they can start with why Indiana is ahead of Ohio State (self-explanatory, 1 sentence is all they need), then Ohio State is in front of Georgia, then why both of those are ahead of Texas Tech, etc. If nothing else, it proves they thought about it.
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Agreed.
I’ve never heard anyone actually say this. But, the current metrics do actually slightly favor ND over A&M (see other computer rankings thread). But the metrics also have both of them comfortably in the field and have Texas A&M slotted in the exact same place that the committee placed them anyway, so it’s relatively moot.
In general, the metrics heavily favor the B1G teams and Notre Dame / Miami, and seem to paint a picture that perhaps the SEC is overrated vs. what the committee thinks. Time will tell which is the more accurate assessment.
I simply cannot fathom this. Miami / ND was one of only three meaningful cross-conference games that occurred this year, all three of which had astronomical CFP implications and were talked about constantly for the duration of the season:
Miami vs. ND
Texas A&M vs. ND
Ohio State vs. Texas
If you’re not buying the conspiracy theory, I think your only argument for incompetence is that the committee way over-punished Miami for that SMU loss, which was their 2nd loss in 3 weeks. Then they spent the entire rest of the season trying to make up for it. Miami went from #2 in the nation in the coaches poll (ahead of Indiana) in Week 8 to #18 in the same poll in Week 11. This coincided with the first CFP ranking release, which also had them 18th. Essentially they just copied the AP / Coaches Poll placement, and if they’re going to just do that to set the baseline, we really don’t need a committee. Just go back to the BCS rankings with the polls / computers hybrid model.
This sounds great in theory, but those midseason perceptions are still going to be there via the AP and Coaches’ polls. One of my favorite things about the weekly CFP rankings is that it immediately renders both of those polls to be meaningless. I’d like to keep it that way. I do agree that there never being any rankings published before the last ones is a sound concept….but it’s impossible to practice that in reality. There has to be something to set the marquee matchups each week, so that is a void that will be filled by someone.
This would be awesome, but I never see it happening. I don’t think anyone on their end wants to add a homework assignment to this. And that’s also something that can be reverse engineered after the fact to make it somewhat logical even if there is gross subjectivity.
I’d rather that they just record the video / audio of the final meeting to set the rankings, vote on the teams, etc. All 3, 5, 8 hours of it, whatever it is. Release that recording to the public after the rankings are released. Let anyone who’s interested dive-in and look at every aspect of it. That’s the best accountability that there is.