What Happens with RAC Reno with Hobbs Gone?

RUskoolie

Hall of Famer
Aug 1, 2007
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I am beginning to wonder if they are going to be forced to do something with all the pent up demand. When you have 1500 account asking for extra tickets that can easily be 3-5k more asses in seats. They can't keep prices the same, its basic economics. My guess is they move forward with an "expansion" plan but the one they rolled out kind of sucked. Add some seats in 118 and above, add bathrooms and increase the tickets 20-30% everywhere and be done with it.
 

S_Janowski

Heisman
May 24, 2009
13,761
26,126
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So what? Let them terminate. You don't think we could exceed that deal on the open market now? They would be doing us a favor. I keep hearing this argument come up and ask the same question everytime. No one has yet to successfully answer it.

I agree that Jersey Mike’s has a pretty good deal but let’s be honest - anytime we have naming rights available major companies aren’t lining up fighting for the deals.
 

Ridge 22

All-American
Jun 30, 2007
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I agree that Jersey Mike’s has a pretty good deal but let’s be honest - anytime we have naming rights available major companies aren’t lining up fighting for the deals.
I understand that. But these type of deals dont tend to go down in value over time (similar to tv rights). Logic holds that we should be able to get more on the open market today via a new deal with a new partner vs a deal signed several years ago. Especially with the uplift in the program lately. If JM's is unhappy with the deal overall (and no indications that is the case), then perhaps they use the RAC clause to get out. But I dont see that happening, RAC reno or not.
 

hinson32

All-American
Jul 29, 2005
7,707
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I am beginning to wonder if they are going to be forced to do something with all the pent up demand. When you have 1500 account asking for extra tickets that can easily be 3-5k more asses in seats. They can't keep prices the same, its basic economics. My guess is they move forward with an "expansion" plan but the one they rolled out kind of sucked. Add some seats in 118 and above, add bathrooms and increase the tickets 20-30% everywhere and be done with it.
The demand will greatly diminish starting next season.
 

rob kight

All-American
Oct 22, 2020
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J_M's will be busting at the seams this year with the players we have. The question will be is this just a one year thing or can we reload after the Harper and Bailey show moves on. Seems like a plan to get to 12,000 without impacting the good and helpful structure of the RAC can be developed and implemented in stages in the off seasons without requiring a move to a temporary home.
 

Rutgers25

All-American
Jul 29, 2001
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Why can’t they just take our lower 200s on one side and put luxury boxes there? Seems like a bunch of dead space there anyway. You make up for the lost seats with a brand new section across the student section.
 

Fat Koko

All-Conference
Nov 28, 2022
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The realistic way to increase RAC capacity to the 10,000 range is;

1) Add temporary bleachers in the corners and on concourse above section 118;
2) Convert section 118 and the student section into safe standing and rail seats;
3) Shrink the width of the scorers' table and shift the team benches deep into the baselines. Add floor seats. These will be the most premium seats in the building. The Knicks and other NBA teams do it this way.
4) Throw plans for 200 level premium seating into the garbage.

This plan would:

1) Cost in the 7 figures versus a major renovation or new arena in the 9 figures, lowering the financing hurdle which has been an insurmountable obstacle to a renovation;
2) Increase capacity, a higher priority for the fanbase than premium seating, evidenced by the debacle of section 118 and reaction to Pat's premium seating survey and focus group feedback;
3) Be buildable quickly and with minimal disruption to arena activities; and
4) Enhance the game experience by bringing more true Rutgers basketball fans into the arena.

Thoughts on premium seating:

1) Fifteen years ago, Pernetti hired Populous who created a renovation plan featuring premium seating. That plan went nowhere.
2) Fast forward to 2020. Hobbs hired AECOM to design a facilities master plan. Although this plan has not been released, the RAC component pushed by Hobbs featured premium seating. Based on reaction on TKR forums, the fanbase hated it.
3) Where would the demand for RAC premium seating come from? Section 118 does not seem to be overflowing. People traveling to the RAC on a winter weekday night are going to see college basketball, not show off and network in premium seating boxes.
4) The most premium seats at basketball games - NBA and college - are the floor seats, not the luxury boxes.
 
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ScarletKid2008

Heisman
Sep 8, 2006
8,022
10,517
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Serious question: when has not having money ever stopped Rutgers Athletic Department from spending more?

From about 1975 until the football stadium expansion in 2011. They was almost zero spending in atheltics. And the numbers back that up. We’re still probably in the lower 30% if athletic dept spending in the power conferences even as we play major catchup.
 

Fat Koko

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Nov 28, 2022
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From about 1975 until the football stadium expansion in 2011. They was almost zero spending in atheltics. And the numbers back that up. We’re still probably in the lower 30% if athletic dept spending in the power conferences even as we play major catchup.

In 1994, the university opened both a new football stadium, Rutgers Stadium, and a new soccer stadium, Yurcak Field. Both stadiums were world class when they opened, evidenced by the fact each stadium hosted international soccer matches that year.

How do you estimate Rutgers is, "still probably in the lower 30% if athletic dept spending in the power conferences"? The lower 30% figure seems absurdly inaccurate to me.

On spending, last year Rutgers ranked 22 of 52 public power conference teams, spending $154 million. The handful of private schools in power conferences don't disclose data. Rutgers ranked 8 of 16 in the B1G. Northwestern and USC don't disclose the data. I posted the 2023 B1G athletic department spending figures below.

Rutgers athletic department's financial problem is not spending, it is revenue - particularly donations and ticket sales. In 2023, Rutgers athletics donation revenue was 16% of the power conference average and 17% of the B1G average. Ticket sales revenue was 45% of power conference peers and 53% of B1G east teams.

Athletic department expenses, 2023 (Source: NCAA Membership Financial Reporting System)

1 Ohio State $274,948,554
2 Michigan $225,548,280
3 Penn State $202,073,671
4 Wisconsin $194,020,289
5 Nebraska $190,870,384
6 Michigan State $181,850,581
7 Iowa $160,302,475
8 Rutgers $153,523,767
9 Illinois $152,809,698
10 Washington $150,037,375
11 Minnesota $146,982,927
12 Oregon $146,778,941
13 UCLA $141,964,728
14 Indiana $139,087,323
15 Maryland $121,160,348
16 Purdue $119,773,814
 

The RUT

Heisman
Oct 30, 2011
35,524
19,389
61
Close the corners.

Make the seats permanent.

Bring back 118.

Luxury boxes above 118.

Handicap areas in the corners nearest the entrance.

These things maintain the RAC. Adds seating. Adds luxury and the RAC actually becomes louder.

Of course we need to over complicate things.
 
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JayDogSmooth

All-Conference
Aug 18, 2006
8,096
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Close the corners.

Make the seats permanent.

Bring back 118.

Luxury boxes above 118.

Handicap areas in the corners nearest the entrance.

These things maintain the RAC. Adds seating. Adds luxury and the RAC actually becomes louder.

Of course we need to over complicate things.
Add bathrooms
Grand front extrance
No students along sideline
10-10.5k capacity max
Call it a day
 

The RUT

Heisman
Oct 30, 2011
35,524
19,389
61
Add bathrooms
Grand front extrance
No students along sideline
10-10.5k capacity max
Call it a day
Don’t even need to go crazy with a front entrance. That’s a luxury IMO.

Bathrooms are a must for sure though.

Entire thing should have been done by this year IMO. School screwed up big time.
 

jakeknight

Senior
Jan 29, 2009
1,273
967
0
Had season tickets for about 10 yrs in the lower 100’s finally gave them up because they were so damn uncomfortable, if nothing else the seating in the rac needs to be redone and refurbished. Give the capacity of the Rac we don’t luxury boxes that reduce the overall number of seats. It’s not a pro arena with corporate boxes
 

Fat Koko

All-Conference
Nov 28, 2022
3,120
2,600
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Had season tickets for about 10 yrs in the lower 100’s finally gave them up because they were so damn uncomfortable, if nothing else the seating in the rac needs to be redone and refurbished. Give the capacity of the Rac we don’t luxury boxes that reduce the overall number of seats. It’s not a pro arena with corporate boxes
See my post #49 - one quick inexpensive way to increase RAC capacity is to throw the seats in the trash and have safe standing areas.

I sit in the 100s for a game or two each season. Don’t remember the seats being uncomfortable. Worst seats are at Carnesecca Arena, St. John’s on campus gym. I get back problems in there.
 

RU MAN

Heisman
Oct 29, 2001
23,548
10,083
113
I really liked the original pernetti expansion concept …gets us up to 10000
And gets the ammenties up without making the RAC about wine and cheese
I’ve always believed that a school the size of Rutgers should have an arena that holds a minimum of 10,000, which can be done with a reno of the RAC. Last week at the Garden, at least 17,000 RU fans paid to watch RU v MSU. We fan sell out 10,000 seats per game.

If a small school like Xavier can have an on campus arena that seats 10,250, the least RU should have is 10,000 seats. And no, I don’t want a new arena.
 

RUDivision

All-Conference
Jan 6, 2023
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Rac Reno is dead! They lined up it perfectly to utilize the historic season of Ace and Harper. Well it’s historic for all the wrong reasons. Instead creating demand and fostering private donations it’s killed the excitement and energy losing all momentum. No President, No AD, amd a historically bad season does not build a stadium.

Students sideline is a great idea. Think of atmosphere and energy not your own self interest.
 
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JerseyNoles

All-Conference
Jul 28, 2021
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Rac Reno is dead! They lined up it perfectly to utilize the historic season of Ace and Harper. Well it’s historic for all the wrong reasons. Instead creating demand and fostering private donations it’s killed the excitement and energy losing all momentum. No President, No AD, amd a historically bad season does not build a stadium.

Students sideline is a great idea. Think of atmosphere and energy not your own self interest.
Student sideline is an awful idea
We're redoing the Rac to generate much needed $$

You already have, when the team is halfway decent, a top 10, borderline top 5 arena, in the nation
You don't need to move the students to the sideline as you already have a raucous atmosphere

Additionally, since the name of the game is $$, you're losing loads of it by not selling those primo seats to big $$ people, and, in addition, pissing off people who currently sit there and have been loyal supporters for years

Simply put, it's overkill and defeats the entire purpose of redoing the arena to begin with
 

RUskoolie

Hall of Famer
Aug 1, 2007
221,149
111,108
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Rac Reno is dead! They lined up it perfectly to utilize the historic season of Ace and Harper. Well it’s historic for all the wrong reasons. Instead creating demand and fostering private donations it’s killed the excitement and energy losing all momentum. No President, No AD, amd a historically bad season does not build a stadium.

Students sideline is a great idea. Think of atmosphere and energy not your own self interest.
Student sideline is a terrible idea. We do not need to follow the crowd. Just add some bathrooms, add seats in the corners make the 100 seats permanent on at least 1 side, make the 300s seat backs and build out 118. That's about all we need to do, it's not complicated.
 

RUDivision

All-Conference
Jan 6, 2023
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Student sideline is an awful idea
We're redoing the Rac to generate much needed $$

You already have, when the team is halfway decent, a top 10, borderline top 5 arena, in the nation
You don't need to move the students to the sideline as you already have a raucous atmosphere

Additionally, since the name of the game is $$, you're losing loads of it by not selling those primo seats to big $$ people, and, in addition, pissing off people who currently sit there and have been loyal supporters for years

Simply put, it's overkill and defeats the entire purpose of redoing the arena to begin with
Where are your seats?

You absolute recoup the costs of students being moved in by the sweet costs. I
 
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JerseyNoles

All-Conference
Jul 28, 2021
2,841
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Where are your seats?

You absolute recoup the costs of students being moved in by the sweet costs. I
113, Row E
And, if some wealthy donor comes in during the reno and shells out 10k per seat and I have to move, I'm good w/it as it generates money for the program

Same with my old Devils seats at the Meadowlands
And my Jets seats at Giants Stadium

And no, you don't recoup the costs - kids don't become future donors and season ticket holders b/c you move them from behind the basket to the sideline - they do it b/c of the experience they had, largely in part to the team's performance, which is immensely helped by generateing $$ for the program (NIL and other)

Again, you're redoing the Rac to generate $$ - this is taking $$ out of our hands for no good reason
 

RUJMM78

Heisman
Jul 25, 2001
26,047
12,245
113
Bring back the Pernetti RAC renovation drawings,This whole discussion keeps coming back to Rutgers lacks financial resources which is embarrassing for the State University of New Jersey.Smaller colleges/universities have far better/up to date basketball arenas that will generate more income with additional seating,parking and concession revenue.Being a member of the B1G Ten means having facilities,coaching and talent to be successful in a power conference.The 22 athletic teams aren't meeting that goal.
 

G- RUnit

All-American
Sep 13, 2004
14,290
7,887
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Rac Reno is dead! They lined up it perfectly to utilize the historic season of Ace and Harper. Well it’s historic for all the wrong reasons. Instead creating demand and fostering private donations it’s killed the excitement and energy losing all momentum. No President, No AD, amd a historically bad season does not build a stadium.

Students sideline is a great idea. Think of atmosphere and energy not your own self interest.
Student sideline diminishes the current student section. It’s a dumb idea.