What I think we can expect from Cohen this year

[Todd4State]

Baseball story time!

In 2005, I went to the MSU/UK Friday night baseball game. We had a "nice" team- I think we finished in 8th place that year, even though we won the SEC Tournament that year as well. That team had Ed Easley and Rea, among others. UK had perhaps the most awful SEC baseball team I have ever seen in terms of talent. They had one guy- their second baseman named John Shelby, Jr- who belonged in the SEC. They also had a brand new coach named John Cohen, of course.

If you think I'm going to talk about how this pitiful team from Kentucky came in to Starkville and beat up on big bad MSU and their legend of a coach, well you're wrong. MSU won this game. Mainly because of superior talent. It was like MSU vs a midweek opponent where you knew that unless something crazy happened, State was going to win, because we had better players. Well, that's what happened, without getting into specifics.

Now, that said, as bad as UK was, I really came away impressed with them. That sounds contradictory at first, but let me explain. As bad as UK was, they did EVERYTHING they possibly could do to beat MSU. They played hard, they were aggressive on the basepaths, and you left the ballpark knowing that they got the most out of what little ability that they had, and they played the game the right way. I felt like I got my moneys worth watching them play.

While this years MSU team is not going to win a NC or anything like that- and I don't see anyone here or know of anyone expecting that- and while we are not going to be the most talented team in the SEC, we're going to get our moneys worth. We're going to see a team that is going to give every last ounce of their abilty and do whatever it takes to win. We may have days where we lose because of our talent or something where we have a bad day- which happens to everybody from time to time. But it's not going to be because of a lack of effort, and when we have those bad days, I don't think we're going to hear some lame excuse for losing.

What I'm looking forward to is 3-5 years from now when Cohen has established his program, has established his recruiting base and really has the ball rolling. Remember this year as just the beginning.

 

[Todd4State]

Baseball story time!

In 2005, I went to the MSU/UK Friday night baseball game. We had a "nice" team- I think we finished in 8th place that year, even though we won the SEC Tournament that year as well. That team had Ed Easley and Rea, among others. UK had perhaps the most awful SEC baseball team I have ever seen in terms of talent. They had one guy- their second baseman named John Shelby, Jr- who belonged in the SEC. They also had a brand new coach named John Cohen, of course.

If you think I'm going to talk about how this pitiful team from Kentucky came in to Starkville and beat up on big bad MSU and their legend of a coach, well you're wrong. MSU won this game. Mainly because of superior talent. It was like MSU vs a midweek opponent where you knew that unless something crazy happened, State was going to win, because we had better players. Well, that's what happened, without getting into specifics.

Now, that said, as bad as UK was, I really came away impressed with them. That sounds contradictory at first, but let me explain. As bad as UK was, they did EVERYTHING they possibly could do to beat MSU. They played hard, they were aggressive on the basepaths, and you left the ballpark knowing that they got the most out of what little ability that they had, and they played the game the right way. I felt like I got my moneys worth watching them play.

While this years MSU team is not going to win a NC or anything like that- and I don't see anyone here or know of anyone expecting that- and while we are not going to be the most talented team in the SEC, we're going to get our moneys worth. We're going to see a team that is going to give every last ounce of their abilty and do whatever it takes to win. We may have days where we lose because of our talent or something where we have a bad day- which happens to everybody from time to time. But it's not going to be because of a lack of effort, and when we have those bad days, I don't think we're going to hear some lame excuse for losing.

What I'm looking forward to is 3-5 years from now when Cohen has established his program, has established his recruiting base and really has the ball rolling. Remember this year as just the beginning.

 

[Coach34]

i completely agree with that

 

[patdog]

and scrap and fight to the end, but the simple fact is the best of this team's ability isn't going to be enough to have a good season.

 

[RebelBruiser]

The one thing you've got going for you is that the team Cohen is inheriting at MSU, while not expected to be good, is nowhere near as bad as the team he inherited at UK. And he won a regular season SEC title in Year 2 at UK. So you know he can get it turned around quickly at MSU.

The one thing UK had that you don't is the short right field porch, and therefore you don't have the easy quick fix that Cohen had of loading up his lineup with guys that could hit with power to right field. Regardless of how he did it though, Cohen figured out what he had going for him at UK, and he took full advantage. I'm sure he'll do the same at MSU.

If nothing else, I know for a fact he'll bring a spark to the Ole Miss-MSU baseball rivalry. We had a pretty bitter rivalry beginning with UK baseball due in large part to Cohen and Bianco going head to head. I'm sure it'll be amplified with Cohen at MSU. Should be fun down the line, and if nothing else, it'll help keep the pressure on Bianco, which should be a plus for us.

As I've said before, I think that in baseball it'll help both of our programs if they are both competitive. If Ole Miss-MSU can be built into a top notch baseball rivalry, it'll help us both with recruiting, much like I think Arizona and Arizona State have fed off of each other.

 

[patdog]

Cohen won the SEC title in year 3 at Kentucky. He was 29-27 (7-22) in year 2. I expect he'll go something like 30-26 (11-19) this year at MSU.

 

[Xartox]

But I refuse to be pessimistic about this baseball team until I'm proven wrong. I think this team is gonna be a lot better than many of you expect.

EDIT: You weren't as pessimistic sounding in your second post. 30-26 (11-19) isn't good by any stretch, but compared to last year it's great. heh

 

[Todd4State]

was a little overrated because both teams have to play on the same field. UK doesn't move right field back when the other team bats.

Yes, you can design your team to "fit" your ballpark, but I never thought that was all that good of an idea when you have to play almost half of your games on the road. I'm a big believer in balance- a lineup that has some speed guys and some power guys- because you never know if you are going to end up in a pitchers duel and have to manufacture runs or if you are going to end up in a slugfest. Oh, and good pitching and good defense are constants, of course.

 

[Hector.sixpack]

While I don't pretend to know as much as you guys about our team, or baseball, we are gonna make every weekend count. I think we have 20+ players that are juniors and seniors. Now they all may not be as talented as we would like but a little scap goes a long way and so does a few years of maturity and experience. I think we will be a very efficient ball club that will be in most games and will grow into our swing as the season progesses. I think by seasons end will be discussing the last few series that could get us into the league tournament.

I just don't see why this is not possible. Baseball teams can improve dramatically from year to year (coaching, experience, etc.)

 

[RonnyAtmosphere]

Cohen won the SEC title in year 3 at Kentucky. He was 29-27 (7-22) in year 2. I expect he'll go something like 30-26 (11-19) this year at MSU.

If Cohen can only win 11 SEC games his first year @ MSU, then it will be proof he is a bad hire.

 

[patdog]

If Cohen can only win 11 SEC games his first year @ MSU, then it will be proof he is a bad hire.

No, it will be proof that Polk left the program in the ******* and Cohen had to play his first season with players who shouldn't be playing in the SEC. Even Skip Bertman only improved LSU from 28-21 the year before he was hired to 32-23 in his first season. Using your logic, he was a bad hire for LSU.

 

[ShineOnYouCrazyBulldog]

at all?

We celebrated in centerfield in the rain after we won our series against UT. It was our first series win, and it only took until the end of April.

I have never left Dudy Noble so pissed in my life as the Sunday doubleheader against Baylor. That was quickly outdone by the Saturday game against Vandy, the single most pathetic effort I have ever witnessed by any athletic team. To this day, I am still pissed about that game.

 

[ShineOnYouCrazyBulldog]

We finished 7th in the SEC in 2005.

 

[RonnyAtmosphere]

...I saw then on TV about 6 times, and they won almost every game I saw them play on TV.

I guess Jim Ellis said it 1,000 times last year on the radio, but for almost all our games last year, the top players were always hurt. Did Ellis have to say it 2,000 times before it sank it?

Be that as it may, a college baseball powerhouse like MSU does not hire the top up & coming coach in the nation only to have that coach win 11 league games his first year.

That's not a testament to how Polk crashed the program; it's more of an indication that Cohen was a bum hire.

 

[patdog]

I guess Jim Ellis said it 1,000 times last year on the radio, but for almost all our games last year, the top players were always hurt. Did Ellis have to say it 2,000 times before it sank it?

The problem with that theory is that we sucked *** last year from the very first game (a loss to North Florida) BEFORE those players got hurt.

 

[RonnyAtmosphere]

If Cohen can only win 11 SEC games his first year @ MSU, then it will be proof he is a bad hire.

No, it will be proof that Polk left the program in the ******* and Cohen had to play his first season with players who shouldn't be playing in the SEC. Even Skip Bertman only improved LSU from 28-21 the year before he was hired to 32-23 in his first season. Using your logic, he was a bad hire for LSU.

First, please provide us a list of the MSU baseball players that shouldn't be in the SEC.

I know there are some (every roster has them), but since you brought it up, you provide the list.

Second, I don't give a flying freak about Bertman & LSU. Now you sound like coach34 & all his anti-Stansbury false equivalency comparisons.

 

[patdog]

nm

 

[RonnyAtmosphere]

I guess Jim Ellis said it 1,000 times last year on the radio, but for almost all our games last year, the top players were always hurt. Did Ellis have to say it 2,000 times before it sank it?

The problem with that theory is that we sucked *** last year from the very first game (a loss to North Florida) BEFORE those players got hurt.

You are entering the realm of coach34.

You are using a bad early season loss when the team was healthy as proof the team would still suck later in the season if the team stayed healthy.

This line of thinking does not speak well to your knowledge of baseball. In fact, it sounds too much like some coach34 crap.

To bottom line it: I don't think Cohen is burdened with a bunch of Belhaven & Millsaps rejects. He has enough talent to be a middle-tier SEC squad this season.

Cohen has too much coaching talent & too much talent to work with to only finish with 11 SEC wins.

But you stick to your Armageddon assessment of this year's squad. Maybe that will score you some sixpack.com points on down the line.

 

[8dog]

had a 7.6 ERA last year (healthy) and a whip right at 2 and we have no real sat or sunday guys and no established closer--that's a start as to why we'll struggle.

We also have no 1st baseman. We have no one that is defensively ready to be an SEC catcher. Our middle infield can't hit and often times cant get the ball to the 1st baseman.

We should have a nice 1-5 if Hogue is alright with Collins, Powers, Freeman, and Adkins behind him. Duffy showed promise last year. but that's about it.

Care to explain why you think Cohen has the talent to finish middle of the road b/c what I just laid out gets you 10th place at best.

 

[patdog]

But it wasn't. When healthy, we lost 2 of 3 to North Florida then followed that up with an embarrassing loss to Air Force the next weekend. We started the season losing 7 of our first 12 games. But yeah, those guys belong in the SEC.

 

[futaba.79]

ronny gets a real feel for our talent level, just like c34 can accurately describe officiating from listening on the radio.

I understand exactly what you mean about our talent. Compared to the average guy, our team is full of great baseball players. Compared to the rest of the SEC...well that's another matter. We have a few SEC quality players, but not enough to be truly competitive. If Cohen has them playing to the max of their ability, and we avoid injuries, maybe we'll get close to .500 in the SEC, but I doubt it. Your prediction is probably more realistic. I just want us to be competitive at home and get to a few Sundays with a chance to win the series. </p>

 

[dawgstudent]

[No message]

 

[Coach34]

ronny gets a real feel for our talent level, just like c34 can accurately describe officiating from listening on the radio.

I understand exactly what you mean about our talent. Compared to the average guy, our team is full of great baseball players. Compared to the rest of the SEC...well that's another matter. We have a few SEC quality players, but not enough to be truly competitive. If Cohen has them playing to the max of their ability, and we avoid injuries, maybe we'll get close to .500 in the SEC, but I doubt it. Your prediction is probably more realistic. I just want us to be competitive at home and get to a few Sundays with a chance to win the series.</p>

you always hear people talk about how they got screwed by the officials on a night that they set the school record for FT attempts in a game

 

[ShineOnYouCrazyBulldog]

We started the season dropping a series to North Florida, giving up 28 runs in the two losses. The next weekend, North Florida dropped a series to... drum roll please... Florida Gulf Coast. A few weeks later, they were swept by Belmont.

The next weekend, we played Air Force. The mighty Air Force team won a grand total of 18 games last year including 4 conference games. 1 of those 18, you guessed it, MSU.

Did you know that Arkansas Little Rock has a baseball team? I do. Want to know how I know? They split the season series with us last year, giving them there 2nd win of the season. They finished the season 16-32.

Baylor swept us, but who didn't see that coming. I mean they only finished the Big 12 schedule a good 5 games below .500.

Hey, we did sweep Mississippi Valley State though. Advantage Ronny...

This is all before SEC play. We were healthy through this stretch of games with the exception of Weatherford, who we didn't need since we were rarely leading.

 

[futaba.79]

so I'm sure that you feel pretty good about the way it was called. </p>

 

[dawgstudent]

One being Jarvis's block and the other was Stansbury's T.

 

[dawgoneyall]

it would be testimony to the dire situation Polk left the program.

About the only rational thought Polk has had recently was to realize how large a disaster MSU baseball was about to become. That is why he quit when he did. Now, if we go 11-19 his febile mind can say "It would not have been this bad if I was still the coach".

If Polk was still doing his Neopolianic rendition we probably would not win 10 SEC games and would have multiple pitchers go down. As bad as the program has fallen, it was about to get much, much worse if Polk had remained.

Don't argue.

 

[Todd4State]

Polk screwed himself (and us) over because he was arrogant and figured that top players would simply show up to "The Camp" so that they could "play for the legend". I used to wonder out loud how the hell anyone EVER got a baseball scholarship to MSU. And they would blow off people like Stephen Head for no good reason and not recruit people like Zach Cozart because "We promised Bunky that he would be the SS." Baseball players aren't like football or basketball players- they can be moved to other positions.

I'll tell the worst thing about Polk was that while MSU crumbled, he was going to let Raffo take the fall for it all. Polk would have been calling the shots while Raffo had the title and got credit for the losses. Tommy Raffo would have gone down in history as the man who couldn't win at MSU and had his career ruined, and then we probably would have still ended up with Cohen when it was all said and done and he would have had a major mess on his hands.

So, I'm happy for Raffo that he ended up at Arkansas State. I really hope he does well there. He may have wanted the MSU job, but I have no doubt that while that may have been a dream for him, the reality would have been very, very bad, and he would not want MSU's job under those circumstances.

Also, as far as Cohen- we have signed three Dandy Dozen players from Mississippi alone and four if you include Tabb. And that's just here in Mississippi. We are headed in the right direction for once.

 

[windcrysmary]

yall made changes because you were tired of losing to us... ole miss baseball success or suckdom never has nor ever will impact MSU baseball...

that goes for hoops too.... football yes...but not the other 2...