What if WSU had the same mentality as some of you?

[MississippiTexan]

To be clear my point isn’t anti leach.

It’s be patient.

and flipping a team works both ways.

Lebby started at -10 on day 1

Since we need to go with your opinion of how long to be patient or else we are idiots, can you tell us how long we need to be patient? Do we need to give him 5 years like Croom? Is 3 years long enough?

And just so you know my feeling is to let him have year 3 unless we can lock down a proven a winner like Mullen. Will he leave us if he wins? I'm sure he will, but so will Lebby. However, I'm more confident that Mullen can win because he has a track record of winning and Lebby doesn't. But I wouldn't fire Lebby now just to go hire a G5 coach and definitely not some coordinator, but he better show something more next year.

 

[QuaoarsKing]

So your logic is it’s easier to win at msu in the sec than at WSU?

Got it

What lebby took over in 2024 compared to his competition was just as bad or worse than wat leach took over compared to his competition

No, I explicitly told you what my "logic" is. It's really dumb to put words in my mouth.

However, if you think that the Wulff Era at Washington State was better than Croom, Lebby, or any other coach in our history, then I suspect you haven't done any basic research on how bad Washington State was in the late 00s.

If our 2024 could have gone back in time to play a late 00s Washington State team, we would have won handily, just like we won handily over 2 teams that we actually played in 2024.

 

[El Perro Grande]

Pullman, Washington is also a lot harder to recruit to than Starkville. It's a beautiful part of the country, but it's far more remote and your family probably isn't going to be making it to many games. The nearest big city is Seattle, which is about as far away from Pullman as Atlanta is from Starkville.

Spokane is twice as big as Jackson, a lot cooler and only an hour from Pullman. Pullman is bigger than Starkvegas for that matter. Local football talent may be thin, but probably less of an issue with modern air travel and nil.

 

[ronpolk]

Of course they aren’t the same. And of course leach shouldn’t have been fired.

but objectively speaking leach taking over WSU in the pac 12 should have been way easier than Lebby taking over MSU in the SEC.

My point is a lack of patience is a sign of an idiot.

I’d be fine being patient with Lebby if he just gave us a shred of something to be positive about. Right now, the only momentum you can grab a hold of is the talent of a freshmen QB he kept on the bench all season.

Im not one that generally calls for coaches to fired, especially after only 2 years. However, it’s clear to anyone paying attention, Lebby is in over his head. It’s head scratcher after head scratcher with him. And what makes it even worse is he’s not consistent with his odd decisions, so that tells me he has no conviction in these decisions he’s just pulling stuff out his ***.

 

[ronpolk]

One other caveat Lebby took over at time where you could lose everyone in 3 months

he did.

he started from scratch and showed a ton of improvement this year

he has to hit the portal hard this offseason

I’m not sure I saw a ton of improvement.

 

[paindonthurt]

He will 100 % be fired if he goes 6-6 next year. I will bet you whatever you'd like on that.

Lets go $100.

 

[johnson86-1]

To be clear my point isn’t anti leach.

I know it wasn't anti leach, I was just pointing out that lumping three years together hid at least some signs of hope in year 2.

It’s be patient.

and flipping a team works both ways.

I'm not sure it works both ways in the way you're implying. You have the ability to build a roster much more quickly, but because of that, you are judged much more quickly, by recruits and boosters. If we were in the preportal era, it'd be pretty easy to sell the story of "look how much improvement we've made so far, we're going to keep improving on that as we get "our guys" in. With starting over every year, you can't really sell that you are building on the year before. I'm not sure how many bad years you get before boosters and recruits lose faith that you can do it.

Lebby started at -10 on day 1

Yea, I'm not sure if that's a fair way to look at it or not, but I don't think he's getting that much slack.

 

[paindonthurt]

Since we need to go with your opinion of how long to be patient or else we are idiots, can you tell us how long we need to be patient? Do we need to give him 5 years like Croom? Is 3 years long enough?

And just so you know my feeling is to let him have year 3 unless we can lock down a proven a winner like Mullen. Will he leave us if he wins? I'm sure he will, but so will Lebby. However, I'm more confident that Mullen can win because he has a track record of winning and Lebby doesn't. But I wouldn't fire Lebby now just to go hire a G5 coach and definitely not some coordinator, but he better show something more next year.

If he goes 6-6 next year, he gets year 4.

 

[paindonthurt]

No, I explicitly told you what my "logic" is. It's really dumb to put words in my mouth.

However, if you think that the Wulff Era at Washington State was better than Croom, Lebby, or any other coach in our history, then I suspect you haven't done any basic research on how bad Washington State was in the late 00s.

If our 2024 could have gone back in time to play a late 00s Washington State team, we would have won handily, just like we won handily over 2 teams that we actually played in 2024.

I think you are the one who is dumb.

WSU played in the pac 12.
MSU plays in the SEC.

 

[paindonthurt]

I’d be fine being patient with Lebby if he just gave us a shred of something to be positive about. Right now, the only momentum you can grab a hold of is the talent of a freshmen QB he kept on the bench all season.

Im not one that generally calls for coaches to fired, especially after only 2 years. However, it’s clear to anyone paying attention, Lebby is in over his head. It’s head scratcher after head scratcher with him. And what makes it even worse is he’s not consistent with his odd decisions, so that tells me he has no conviction in these decisions he’s just pulling stuff out his ***.

I think going 5-7 and losing 1 score games to 2 ranked teams and 1 team who is more talented than we are on the road is something.

Its better than Mullen's 5-7 record with 11 nfl players including 5 nfl starters in the front 7.

 

[paindonthurt]

I’m not sure I saw a ton of improvement.

Then i can't help you.

 

[campshelbydog1116]

Lets go $100.

Done

 

[paindonthurt]

Done

@dawgstudent for your records!

5-7 no bet

6-6 and not fired i win
6-6 and fire campshelby wins

7-5 no bet

 

[was21]

If he goes 6-6 next year, he gets year 4.

If one of the 6 wins is OM, he won't be fired off

 

[paindonthurt]

If one of the 6 wins is OM, he won't be fired off

He won't be fired at 6-6 even if its not ole miss.

 

[QuaoarsKing]

WSU played in the pac 12.
MSU plays in the SEC.

Exactly. Now why is it so hard to believe that Leach walked into a worse situation there than Lebby walked into here?

 

[paindonthurt]

Exactly. Now why is it so hard to believe that Leach walked into a worse situation there than Lebby walked into here?

Damn I bet you have a sub 100 iq as well.

losses to
byu 8-5
Colorado 1-11
California 3-9
Utah 5-7
Arizona state 7-5

Florida is the only team who might be worse than any of those teams comparing this years Florida to those 2012 teams. Florida definitely more talented and on the road.

It’s very comparable to lebbys first 2 years here given strength of schedule and the complete turnover of the roster after leach died and the arnett experiment

 

[QuaoarsKing]

You're just talking in circles. All of these sentences 100% true:

1. Mike Leach had a rough start at Washington State, though he did get to a bowl game in year 2.

2. In the 4 years before Leach got there, Washington State was in much worse shape than Mississippi State has ever been in.

3. Because Leach had already been a successful P5 head coach (10 bowls in 10 years), Washington State fans had a solid reason to think he would turn it around.

 

[ZombieKissinger]

This is exactly the difference. He had already proven himself able to build a program out of a historic non-contender.

The environment is also completely different now. The portal means coaches get a chance to quickly fill in gaps versus having to spend years building up a recruiting pipeline or recruit JUCOs (who count against your limit on recruiting out of high school). Even now a proven head coach probably only gets three years to put together a winning season.

Pullman, Washington is also a lot harder to recruit to than Starkville. It's a beautiful part of the country, but it's far more remote and your family probably isn't going to be making it to many games. The nearest big city is Seattle, which is about as far away from Pullman as Atlanta is from Starkville.

Please respect Spokane

 

[paindonthurt]

Horseshlt, Lebby took an AZ defense giving up 350 yds / game and took it to dead 17ing last in the conference at 456.4 yds/ game. This year Lebby put some sprinkles on the turd improving to 405.8 yds / game.

Its like some of you idiots forget you have access to the internet.

We lost 9 of the top 12 production on defense from 2023 to 2024 including:

Nathaniel Watson - 6th round nfl draft pick
Jayden Crumedy - 6th round nfl draft pick
Decamerion Richardson - 4th round nfl draft pick
Jett Johnson - who was in top 3 in tackles in 2022 and top 2 in 2023

 

[paindonthurt]

You're just talking in circles. All of these sentences 100% true:

1. Mike Leach had a rough start at Washington State, though he did get to a bowl game in year 2.

2. In the 4 years before Leach got there, Washington State was in much worse shape than Mississippi State has ever been in.

3. Because Leach had already been a successful P5 head coach (10 bowls in 10 years), Washington State fans had a solid reason to think he would turn it around.

All of these statements are true

1. Lebby took over a terrible situation at mississippi state. ZERO NFL players on defense. ZERO. Not even an SEC honorable mention.
2. In the 4 years before Lebby took over, Leach nor Arnett recruited a defensive player who was going to be on the 2024 team. Nor an SEC honorable mention. (Unless that player was gone before Lebby ever was named MSU's coach).
3. Leach took 3 years to turn it around with all his experience with a much easier schedule than Lebby had.

THEY LOST TO 1-11 COLORADO AT HOME!!!!

 

[ronpolk]

I think going 5-7 and losing 1 score games to 2 ranked teams and 1 team who is more talented than we are on the road is something.

Its better than Mullen's 5-7 record with 11 nfl players including 5 nfl starters in the front 7.

If you want to make a more applicable comparison why don’t we talk about year 2 of Mullen vs year 2 of Lebby? Honestly I’m not interested in having that discussion because everyone would agree that Lebby is no where in the same universe as Mullen. I think you’d probably even agree with that.

The problem I have with calling this year improvement is that I don’t think the schedule was anywhere near as difficult this year as last year. Texas was better last year, TN was better last year, Florida was better last year. Every good team we played this year absolutely steam rolled us. The last 3 games of the year were clearly our worst games. The team got worse as season the season progressed.

Im not going to sit here and argue what ifs and odds comparisons with you. The facts are, we have won 1 conference game under Lebby. We have blown multiple leads where Lebby shows no ability to adjust to what a team does during their comeback. The play calling is atrocious and the situational swapping out the QBs made very little sense.

It’s clear you think he’s a good coach and it’s clear I think he’s not. So far, there is no factual argument you can really formulate to show he’s a good coach. He’s obviously going to get next year to show what he’s got. You’ll either get your chance to gloat or you’ll be proven wrong.

 

[paindonthurt]

If you want to make a more applicable comparison why don’t we talk about year 2 of Mullen vs year 2 of Lebby? Honestly I’m not interested in having that discussion because everyone would agree that Lebby is no where in the same universe as Mullen. I think you’d probably even agree with that.

The problem I have with calling this year improvement is that I don’t think the schedule was anywhere near as difficult this year as last year. Texas was better last year, TN was better last year, Florida was better last year. Every good team we played this year absolutely steam rolled us. The last 3 games of the year were clearly our worst games. The team got worse as season the season progressed.

Im not going to sit here and argue what ifs and odds comparisons with you. The facts are, we have won 1 conference game under Lebby. We have blown multiple leads where Lebby shows no ability to adjust to what a team does during their comeback. The play calling is atrocious and the situational swapping out the QBs made very little sense.

It’s clear you think he’s a good coach and it’s clear I think he’s not. So far, there is no factual argument you can really formulate to show he’s a good coach. He’s obviously going to get next year to show what he’s got. You’ll either get your chance to gloat or you’ll be proven wrong.

I think a more app comparison is Mullen year 1 and lebby year 2 if we are purely talking about coaching.

Mullen inherited 11 NFL players. 5 NFL starters started in mullens front 7 in year 1. 5 of the 7 front 7!!!
Lebby had zero.

Now if your argument is Lebby needs to do better in the portal and recruiting? OK.

But lebby faced a tougher schedule in year 2 than mullen did in year 1 and mullen had 11 nfl players!!! 5 nfl starters in the front 7!!!

Speaking of Mullen, i remember this board losing their collective minds b/c mullen was too conservative in big games. Well Lebby aint conservative.

 

[ronpolk]

I think a more app comparison is Mullen year 1 and lebby year 2 if we are purely talking about coaching.

Mullen inherited 11 NFL players. 5 NFL starters started in mullens front 7 in year 1. 5 of the 7 front 7!!!
Lebby had zero.

Now if your argument is Lebby needs to do better in the portal and recruiting? OK.

But lebby faced a tougher schedule in year 2 than mullen did in year 1 and mullen had 11 nfl players!!! 5 nfl starters in the front 7!!!

Speaking of Mullen, i remember this board losing their collective minds b/c mullen was too conservative in big games. Well Lebby aint conservative.

14-11; 7-9 - mullen’s first 2 years
7-17; 1-15 - lebby’s first 2 years

mullens first 2 years included 9 teams ranked in the final coaches poll. Lebby has faced 10 teams (final coaches for 24 and current coaches, which TN is 24 and could very easily fall out depending on their bowl game). I don’t know why you’re trying to make this Lebby vs Mullen debate, If I started that I didn’t mean to. But I don’t really think it’s much of a debate. But I also don’t think Lebby needed to replicate Mullen’s first 2 years to have people optimistic. There is no doubt Mullen inherited a better situation but he also inherited Tyson Lee and Chris relf.

 

[paindonthurt]

14-11; 7-9 - mullen’s first 2 years
7-17; 1-15 - lebby’s first 2 years

mullens first 2 years included 9 teams ranked in the final coaches poll. Lebby has faced 10 teams (final coaches for 24 and current coaches, which TN is 24 and could very easily fall out depending on their bowl game). I don’t know why you’re trying to make this Lebby vs Mullen debate, If I started that I didn’t mean to. But I don’t really think it’s much of a debate. But I also don’t think Lebby needed to replicate Mullen’s first 2 years to have people optimistic. There is no doubt Mullen inherited a better situation but he also inherited Tyson Lee and Chris relf.

11 nfl players vs 0 nfl players on the team
5 nfl starters starting in the front 7

 

[mstateglfr]

This is my entire point.

FANS are dumb AF. This message board has a lot of dumb fans.

I can get on board with this. Fanbases seem to consistently be irrational and reactionary.

With that said, both things can be true- your point right here can be good and your WSU comparison and ranting can suck.

 

[paindonthurt]

I can get on board with this. Fanbases seem to consistently be irrational and reactionary.

With that said, both things can be true- your point right here can be good and your WSU comparison and ranting can suck.

And you can suck all the time!!!

My point is simple and correct abuot WSU. The same morons yelling right now about Lebby would have been yelling to fire Leach at WSU. Many of them were yelling to fire leach before he died.

They were idiots then. They are idiots now.

 

[mstateglfr]

Spokane is twice as big as Jackson, a lot cooler and only an hour from Pullman. Pullman is bigger than Starkvegas for that matter. Local football talent may be thin, but probably less of an issue with modern air travel and nil.

15 or so years ago I geeked out on what the most difficult major university to recruit is located. Starkville and Pullman were at the top for being the most remote schools, relative to metros. I think Pullman was more remote at the time, but not positive.
Regardless, its wild to see how remote the two schools were, compared to even other schools that are considered remote.

 

[mstateglfr]

And you can suck all the time!!!

My point is simple and correct abuot WSU. The same morons yelling right now about Lebby would have been yelling to fire Leach at WSU. Many of them were yelling to fire leach before he died.

They were idiots then. They are idiots now.

Yeah, irrational people would likely be irrational in other situations.
Ok cool, your point has been made.

 

[paindonthurt]

Yeah, irrational people would likely be irrational in other situations.
Ok cool, your point has been made.

Are you sure? I know you are kind of slow.

 

[ronpolk]

11 nfl players vs 0 nfl players on the team
5 nfl starters starting in the front 7

Lebby had 2 transfer portals to fix that…. Has Lebby brought on a single player that is considered a sure fire NFL draft pick? Maybe Thompson. The best nfl prospects on our team (Kelly jones and Isaac smith) were former staff recruits.

Im not sure all 11 guys that you are referring to but just off hand…. Banks, Chris white, Gabe Jackson, McPhee, fletcher cox and Josh Boyd were all Mullen signed players.

 

[paindonthurt]

Lebby had 2 transfer portals to fix that…. Has Lebby brought on a single player that is considered a sure fire NFL draft pick? Maybe Thompson. The best nfl prospects on our team (Kelly jones and Isaac smith) were former staff recruits.

Im not sure all 11 guys that you are referring to but just off hand…. Banks, Chris white, Gabe Jackson, McPhee, fletcher cox and Josh Boyd were all Mullen signed players.

Read my last response to you and get back to me

 

[ronpolk]

Read my last response to you and get back to me

So you’re essentially admitting that Lebby can’t adequately recruit? He can’t adequately coach a team with a lead, he can’t adequately make decisions in close ball games…. So what does he do well?

 

[paindonthurt]

So you’re essentially admitting that Lebby can’t adequately recruit?

You were relatively close if you had stopped here but you aren't very smart.

If your argument is lebby needs to do better in the portal? OK. I agree he does.

If your argument is we need to fire lebby this year for any reason, you are dumb.
If your argument is lebby can't coach, you are dumb. He went 5-7 with less talent and a harder schedule compared to Dan Mullen in 2009. We know Dan can coach.
If your argument is lebby should fire the entire staff and start over, you are dumb.

We are 4 to 5 undrafted free agents or just above average SEC players from being 6-6 or 7-5 and maybe 8-4. 2 to 3 on O line and 2 to 3 on D line.

 

[Trojanbulldog19]

How are some of you so blind to not see how bad of shape we were in when Lebby arrived? Especially on defense, we were less talented than most Sunbelt teams

Yet we still won 5 games with Arnett as bad as he was. Lebby had the portal and just whiffed on that and his coaching hires. Didn't drag anyone of importance with him unlike Mullen when he brought in a bunch of coaches from a national champion team.

 

[ronpolk]

You were relatively close if you had stopped here but you aren't very smart.

If your argument is lebby needs to do better in the portal? OK. I agree he does.

If your argument is we need to fire lebby this year for any reason, you are dumb.
If your argument is lebby can't coach, you are dumb. He went 5-7 with less talent and a harder schedule compared to Dan Mullen in 2009. We know Dan can coach.
If your argument is lebby should fire the entire staff and start over, you are dumb.

We are 4 to 5 undrafted free agents or just above average SEC players from being 6-6 or 7-5 and maybe 8-4. 2 to 3 on O line and 2 to 3 on D line.

I’m not gonna argue with you on the Mullen stuff because it’s so hypothetical and opinion based. I don’t think it’s necessarily true that Lebby’s schedules were harder. We played a similar number of ranked teams and played the national champion in each of those Mullen years. Agree to disagree the Lebby schedule was harder.

But the opportunity to get to 6 or 7 wins was right in front of Lebby and he blew it. He didn’t need different players. Better coaching and he could have easily beaten Texas and Florida. We were winning 38-21 with 12 minutes left and you lose… that’s coaching. And Florida the coach passed up on FG well within our kickers range to throw the ball… again bad coaching.

 

[QuaoarsKing]

I'll say it again - if Lebby had been a successful P4 head coach somewhere else for 10 years before coming here, people would be willing to be more patient with him.

Any comparison to Leach at Washington State is inherently flawed because of that monumental difference.

 

[paindonthurt]

But the opportunity to get to 6 or 7 wins was right in front of Lebby and he blew it. He didn’t need different players. Better coaching and he could have easily beaten Texas and Florida. We were winning 38-21 with 12 minutes left and you lose… that’s coaching. And Florida the coach passed up on FG well within our kickers range to throw the ball… again bad coaching.

So you are saying Lebby coached up this lack of talent team to potentially get to 7 wins? Seems like he overachieved then.

 

[paindonthurt]

I'll say it again - if Lebby had been a successful P4 head coach somewhere else for 10 years before coming here, people would be willing to be more patient with him.

Any comparison to Leach at Washington State is inherently flawed because of that monumental difference.

You can claim any comparison is flawed.

Lebby did more with less this year.

If Leach would have went 3-9, 6-7 and 3-9 people would scream to fire him WHICH IS STUPID. But we know people are stupid bc they wanted to fire him the year he died.

 

[QuaoarsKing]

You can claim any comparison is flawed.

Lebby did more with less this year.

If Leach would have went 3-9, 6-7 and 3-9 people would scream to fire him WHICH IS STUPID. But we know people are stupid bc they wanted to fire him the year he died.

Lebby has nothing to do with Leach. If Leach had been a first time coach at Washington State, maybe they would have fired him after year 3 with those results. Or maybe they wouldn't have. Who knows?