What is the most important position to recruit?
- Thread starter cheewgumm
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Talent, as much as you can get....
If I had to break it down by position, I'd say QB. A good QB makes the team much more lethal. And QBs in high school tend to be pretty good athletes. You make make a lot of positions out of them.
Then OL, the heart of your football team. Have to make sure you have enough of them.
If I had to break it down by position, I'd say QB. A good QB makes the team much more lethal. And QBs in high school tend to be pretty good athletes. You make make a lot of positions out of them.
Then OL, the heart of your football team. Have to make sure you have enough of them.
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QB, for sure
QB is the correct answer here. Many people on this board may not agree with that though because MSU has had very few good QBs in their history. Therefore, we have always won with good O & D linemen. However, there is no replacement for having a Eli Manning, Peyton Manning, Aaron Murray, Jamarcus Russell, etc...
QB is the correct answer here. Many people on this board may not agree with that though because MSU has had very few good QBs in their history. Therefore, we have always won with good O & D linemen. However, there is no replacement for having a Eli Manning, Peyton Manning, Aaron Murray, Jamarcus Russell, etc...
Depends. RGIII made a Baylor team that wouldn't win 4 games into a 9 win team, and their line play was garbage.
Mississippi always has "no-name" talented guys who show up on campuses. Jackson State, USM, UM, us, and every JUCO. Our best lineman on both sides of the ball haven't been Wisconsin-esk type guys, yet we're having a ton of success with small town kids no one seemed to want.
The exact same thing goes for skilled positions. Our entire secondary, every one of our running backs, and all the receivers except Morrow and Bumphis were "nobodies"...
So I honestly think you have to recruit a QB who's going to play QB. Not a QB who is going to learn a new position, Tubby, Eulls, or Myles. No way were 5-0 without a QB of Russell's caliber.
Mississippi always has "no-name" talented guys who show up on campuses. Jackson State, USM, UM, us, and every JUCO. Our best lineman on both sides of the ball haven't been Wisconsin-esk type guys, yet we're having a ton of success with small town kids no one seemed to want.
The exact same thing goes for skilled positions. Our entire secondary, every one of our running backs, and all the receivers except Morrow and Bumphis were "nobodies"...
So I honestly think you have to recruit a QB who's going to play QB. Not a QB who is going to learn a new position, Tubby, Eulls, or Myles. No way were 5-0 without a QB of Russell's caliber.
I'd have to say OL and then DL. Nick Saban and Les Miles have proven that you don't need a great QB to win a lot of football games. Having a great QB would be nice, but dominating OLs and DLs are nicer.
Quarterback
Just because that affects so much of your offense from a style standpoint, and you need to make sure that you have a good leader and is accurate. Those are the two most important traits a QB can/should have. We've all seen what happens when you have a bad QB. I don't like trying to take guys that are "good athletes playing QB" type guys like Derrick Taite. I want good QB's that are good athletes. Give me a guy like Tyson Lee but is 6'0" tall over a guy like Taite any and every day of the week. Your team goes as your QB goes.
Second is o-line and d-line. Football games are won in the trenches. Yet, the thing is a lot of times the big uglies aren't rated high by the recruiting services, but a lot of times they become your bigger recruits. See Gabe Jackson, Justin Malone, Dillion Day, JC Brignone, etc. And then there are some like Derek Sherrod that are rated high as well, but a lot of these recruiting gurus that run these sites have no clue how to evaluate o-linemen. Same with d-linemen, although I do think they get rated higher more often than o-linemen.
Third would be CB's. I think that's a really tough position to fill and also find guys that can truly play CB at a high level. It's just hard to find guys that have ball skills that can cover and can also be physical. We've been pretty blessed with guys like Walt Harris, Smoot, Bean, Banks, and Slay over the years.
Fourth would be WR's/RB's/TE's depending on what offense you run- but I think they share importance in a typical offense. And you have to make sure you have variety- like us, we have too many slot type WR's and we don't really have any tall, deep threat type guys. And I think it has affected our offense some. You have to be able to run the ball in the SEC. TE's- I think that's a position that's more important in the SEC because you have to have people that can block for the running game and occasionally protect the QB, and also to give you another weapon on offense. Slot guys are probably the easiest to find nowadays. Just find a guy that has speed and decent hands and get the ball to them in space.
Fifth would be LB's and safeties. That seems to be the easiest thing to find. It's pretty rare that we aren't at least good at LB and safety. I do think it's important to have a good MLB that is a smart player that can lead. But, basically you're looking for people that are big, fast, and want to rip someone's head off out there.
K/P/LS/KO specialist- I would ask them to walk-on and just let whomever wanted to be a Bulldog come on out and whomever wins the job gets the scholarship. Those guys are just erratic and unpredictable. To me, they're more risky as far as handing than any other position as far as scholarships go. And with 25 man limits on signing day- we can't afford to waste one on a John Micheal Marlin or a Blake McShank.
FB would be another walk-on spot. We use FB's in our offense, but they're dime a dozen in high schools across the country and a lot of offenses hardly use them other than in short yardage situations. Like LB, it's pretty rare that we don't have a decent FB and usually it's a walk-on like an Eric Hoskins or Sylvester Hemphill. Just get a high school RB, bulk them up and teach them to block.
Just because that affects so much of your offense from a style standpoint, and you need to make sure that you have a good leader and is accurate. Those are the two most important traits a QB can/should have. We've all seen what happens when you have a bad QB. I don't like trying to take guys that are "good athletes playing QB" type guys like Derrick Taite. I want good QB's that are good athletes. Give me a guy like Tyson Lee but is 6'0" tall over a guy like Taite any and every day of the week. Your team goes as your QB goes.
Second is o-line and d-line. Football games are won in the trenches. Yet, the thing is a lot of times the big uglies aren't rated high by the recruiting services, but a lot of times they become your bigger recruits. See Gabe Jackson, Justin Malone, Dillion Day, JC Brignone, etc. And then there are some like Derek Sherrod that are rated high as well, but a lot of these recruiting gurus that run these sites have no clue how to evaluate o-linemen. Same with d-linemen, although I do think they get rated higher more often than o-linemen.
Third would be CB's. I think that's a really tough position to fill and also find guys that can truly play CB at a high level. It's just hard to find guys that have ball skills that can cover and can also be physical. We've been pretty blessed with guys like Walt Harris, Smoot, Bean, Banks, and Slay over the years.
Fourth would be WR's/RB's/TE's depending on what offense you run- but I think they share importance in a typical offense. And you have to make sure you have variety- like us, we have too many slot type WR's and we don't really have any tall, deep threat type guys. And I think it has affected our offense some. You have to be able to run the ball in the SEC. TE's- I think that's a position that's more important in the SEC because you have to have people that can block for the running game and occasionally protect the QB, and also to give you another weapon on offense. Slot guys are probably the easiest to find nowadays. Just find a guy that has speed and decent hands and get the ball to them in space.
Fifth would be LB's and safeties. That seems to be the easiest thing to find. It's pretty rare that we aren't at least good at LB and safety. I do think it's important to have a good MLB that is a smart player that can lead. But, basically you're looking for people that are big, fast, and want to rip someone's head off out there.
K/P/LS/KO specialist- I would ask them to walk-on and just let whomever wanted to be a Bulldog come on out and whomever wins the job gets the scholarship. Those guys are just erratic and unpredictable. To me, they're more risky as far as handing than any other position as far as scholarships go. And with 25 man limits on signing day- we can't afford to waste one on a John Micheal Marlin or a Blake McShank.
FB would be another walk-on spot. We use FB's in our offense, but they're dime a dozen in high schools across the country and a lot of offenses hardly use them other than in short yardage situations. Like LB, it's pretty rare that we don't have a decent FB and usually it's a walk-on like an Eric Hoskins or Sylvester Hemphill. Just get a high school RB, bulk them up and teach them to block.
Defensive Tackle.
The best opinion I've heard was from Terry Bowden the day the Albert Means story broke.
His opinion is it's the positions that require the greatest statistical outliers.
I think his order was 1 DT, 2 CB, 3 OT ...
I'd always thought it was QB until I heard his argument.
Name a successful MSU team that didn't have excellent DTs.
The best opinion I've heard was from Terry Bowden the day the Albert Means story broke.
His opinion is it's the positions that require the greatest statistical outliers.
I think his order was 1 DT, 2 CB, 3 OT ...
I'd always thought it was QB until I heard his argument.
Name a successful MSU team that didn't have excellent DTs.
^^This^^
If you have great line play, all you need is a serviceable QB that doesn't turn it over (see Bama, LSU). Notice that Peyton, Eli, Aaron Murray, Matthew Stafford, etc, never won a National Championship....but the teams with better lines and lesser QB's did. Maybe I'm wrong though.
For all those saying QB over lineman, please recall the Kevin Fant era.
A good offensive line can hide deficiencies at the QB position. The same can not be said in reverse. Look no further than Chris Relf 2010 vs Chris Relf 2011.
A good offensive line can hide deficiencies at the QB position. The same can not be said in reverse. Look no further than Chris Relf 2010 vs Chris Relf 2011.
If y ou are really talking about one position, and not a position group, QB
without a question. If you're talking about where do you have to make sure you have somebody serviceable, an incompetent qb kills you unless you are superior everywhere else.
The OL positions would be next (I'm guessing LT, RT, C, either G). Having one incompetent lineman is bad, but you can help him with a running back or TE. An exceptional linemen is a big help, but can't hide too many other deficiencies.
CB is probably next. If you have an incompetent CB, you have to stay zone and/or constantly have a safety to help him in man.
If you're assuming you are competent everywhere and are asking what position would you want to be exceptional, I think it still starts at QB. THen I'd go with DL, just because an exceptional DL can disrupt so much of what the other team tries to do on offense. I'd probably pick a RB next in college, but in the NFL, I'd probably rather have a lockdown CB than an exceptional RB, just because RB by committee works fine in the NFL.
without a question. If you're talking about where do you have to make sure you have somebody serviceable, an incompetent qb kills you unless you are superior everywhere else.
The OL positions would be next (I'm guessing LT, RT, C, either G). Having one incompetent lineman is bad, but you can help him with a running back or TE. An exceptional linemen is a big help, but can't hide too many other deficiencies.
CB is probably next. If you have an incompetent CB, you have to stay zone and/or constantly have a safety to help him in man.
If you're assuming you are competent everywhere and are asking what position would you want to be exceptional, I think it still starts at QB. THen I'd go with DL, just because an exceptional DL can disrupt so much of what the other team tries to do on offense. I'd probably pick a RB next in college, but in the NFL, I'd probably rather have a lockdown CB than an exceptional RB, just because RB by committee works fine in the NFL.
At state,
I'd say stock up on OL, as many as 8 a class just because there seem to be so many busts. Then focus on landing a qb, just b/c there aren't that many good qb prospects in MS. Then I'd say DL, CB, and WR. It seems like MSU always has the athletes to play RB, LB, and safety.
I'd say stock up on OL, as many as 8 a class just because there seem to be so many busts. Then focus on landing a qb, just b/c there aren't that many good qb prospects in MS. Then I'd say DL, CB, and WR. It seems like MSU always has the athletes to play RB, LB, and safety.
So Craig McElroy, Brodie Croyle, AJ McCarron, Matt Flynn, and Jamarcus Russell aren't any good? They all played in the NFL
I was thinking the same thing.
And it's a stretch to say those other guys "played" in the NFL. They might have been on NFL teams, but even Jamarcus Russell and the time he spent in games is far from being considered a decent NFL QB.
Those guys weren't even good college QBs, but they do prove the point that you don't need a great QB to win games in college.
Look at the Tampa Bay Buccaneers and the Baltimore Ravens when they won their Super Bowls...both had superior DL and OL talent and BOTH teams had QB's who were just average. OL created a ground game which helped the QB because he never had to "make a play", while the QB is important it is not the most important. A great DL can make any QB look bad, with pressure comes mistakes and an average DB can benefit from a QB's mistake.
1. DL
2. OL
3. LB
4. QB
5. DB
1. DL
2. OL
3. LB
4. QB
5. DB
Quarterback, and is it even really close? Here are some NFL caliber QB's who took their school to their pinnacle of success (along with their college win-loss as a starter). Could you say the same about any other position?
Ben Roethlisberger (Miami OH) 27-11
Chad Pennington (Marshall) 35-4
Byron Leftwich (Marshall) 30-9
Ryan Fitzpatrick (Harvard) 17-3
Robert Griffin III (Baylor) 17-9
Michael Vick (VT) 22-2
Philip Rivers (NCSU) 34-17
Alex Smith (Utah) 21-1
Andrew Luck (Stanford) 31-8
David Garrard (ECU) 23-13
Matt Schaub (UVA) 17-10
Drew Brees (Purdue) 33-16
Matt Ryan (BC) 21-6
Aaron Rodgers (Cal) 17-4
Is it a coincidence that these schools' high water marks came when they had all world talent at QB? Purdue has been to the Rose Bowl exactly once in 5 decades. It was when Brees was there. When was the last time NC St. was relevant? How about Boston College? Does anyone here even know where Darrell Revis went to college (Pitt)? You have a great offensive line, you're probably a good team (Joe Thomas, five time pro-bowler played in zero rose bowls, Russell Wilson went to 'Sconsin one year and took them there). You strike gold with a QB and your school is going to have some of its best seasons ever. I'd say that makes it the most important to recruit and recruit well.
*-I purposely focused on QB's who's programs had a checkered past prior to their arrival.
Ben Roethlisberger (Miami OH) 27-11
Chad Pennington (Marshall) 35-4
Byron Leftwich (Marshall) 30-9
Ryan Fitzpatrick (Harvard) 17-3
Robert Griffin III (Baylor) 17-9
Michael Vick (VT) 22-2
Philip Rivers (NCSU) 34-17
Alex Smith (Utah) 21-1
Andrew Luck (Stanford) 31-8
David Garrard (ECU) 23-13
Matt Schaub (UVA) 17-10
Drew Brees (Purdue) 33-16
Matt Ryan (BC) 21-6
Aaron Rodgers (Cal) 17-4
Is it a coincidence that these schools' high water marks came when they had all world talent at QB? Purdue has been to the Rose Bowl exactly once in 5 decades. It was when Brees was there. When was the last time NC St. was relevant? How about Boston College? Does anyone here even know where Darrell Revis went to college (Pitt)? You have a great offensive line, you're probably a good team (Joe Thomas, five time pro-bowler played in zero rose bowls, Russell Wilson went to 'Sconsin one year and took them there). You strike gold with a QB and your school is going to have some of its best seasons ever. I'd say that makes it the most important to recruit and recruit well.
*-I purposely focused on QB's who's programs had a checkered past prior to their arrival.
Go look at Drew Brees' offensive lines in college. He took 17ing Purdue to a Rose Bowl AND won the Maxwell. Or how about Eli Manning, if you want someone closer to home. Who was blocking for RGIII in college? No one is saying line isn't important, but it PALES in comparison to quarterback.
A great QB can impact every facet of the offense because he touches the ball every play. Even a great offensive line struggles if the defense isn't worried about the passing attack.
A great QB can impact every facet of the offense because he touches the ball every play. Even a great offensive line struggles if the defense isn't worried about the passing attack.
Hell no it's not QB- you can go 9-4 and win a NYD bowl with Chris Relf at QB
LSU went 13-1 with Jordan Jefferson and Jarrett Lee- LSU went 42-12 during those 2 QB's career, including 24-3 their Jr and Sr seasons
Tennessee has a future 1st or 2nd round QB playing for them- but a defense ranked 13th in the SEC- that might explain why they are 1-9 in their last 10 SEC games
This is a college discussion so NFL examples don't really relate, but I couldn't let this go...
You're going to make your argument based on 2 statistical outliers? Nice work champ. Last 20 Super Bowl QBs:
E. Manning, Rodgers, Brees, Roethlisberger, E. Manning, P. Manning. Roethlisberger, Brady, Brady, Brad Johnson, Brady, Dilfer, Warner, Elway, Elway, Favre, Aikman, Young, Aikman, Aikman.
18 Superstar QBs. 2 Average QBs. You're clearly picking up on the pattern.
You're going to make your argument based on 2 statistical outliers? Nice work champ. Last 20 Super Bowl QBs:
E. Manning, Rodgers, Brees, Roethlisberger, E. Manning, P. Manning. Roethlisberger, Brady, Brady, Brad Johnson, Brady, Dilfer, Warner, Elway, Elway, Favre, Aikman, Young, Aikman, Aikman.
18 Superstar QBs. 2 Average QBs. You're clearly picking up on the pattern.
Way to completely miss the point. I give you example after example of superior QB play lifting average or below average play elsewhere and you come back with Chris Relf in '10? LSU was already playing at a national championship level when those QBs arrived. Thanks for proving my point. Good QB play lifts teams to new heights. Good line play doesn't necessarily have the same effect.
And let's hold on and see where Tyler Bray gets drafted before we start talking about Tennessee. BTW, I see you are already hedging on him with that "or 2nd round" business. Classic Douche34 right there.
Why was LSU already playing at a national championship level? Outstanding DL and OL play. It sure wasn't because of great QBs.
Furthermore, none of those teams in your example could beat a team like LSU or Bama. LSU is rotating 6-8 NFL quality DL on their two-deep. A great QB and a mediocre OL has little chance to win against a team like that.
It's hard to be a great QB when you're on your *** or flat on your back.
WTF are you talking about? All I've ever said about Bray is that he is a "high round draft pick". I've never one time declared him a certain 1st rounder. Feel free to search the archives to attempt to prove me wrong.
And as Dawg said- there was a reason LSU was already on a NC level- DL and OL play. QB is important, but it doesnt trump OL and DL players. There's been many very talented QB's ruined by pitiful OL's- Kevin Fant was a great example for our school. David Carr is an NFL example.
David Carr is a fine example of the hype machine. Terrible example of "offensive line" argument. He was just terrible.
I'm sorry, but an exceptional QB overcomes an average OL. If you recruit the position at all, you have an average OL. Relf and Russell didn't dazzle by any means last season, but by MSU standards last year was one of the best QB years (between the two combined) in school history and it was a terrible OL. We stuck a DT at LT and still won 7 games.
Relf is obviously a bad example, but really though he was a great dual threat COLLEGE QB. Outside of a BCS bowl bound team I don't know of any better run first bruising QB's than him. Hurt, and playing behind a bad OL.
QB's can make or define a team, or in the case of LSU or the SF 49ers they can just be there and not 17 things up.
I'm sorry, but an exceptional QB overcomes an average OL. If you recruit the position at all, you have an average OL. Relf and Russell didn't dazzle by any means last season, but by MSU standards last year was one of the best QB years (between the two combined) in school history and it was a terrible OL. We stuck a DT at LT and still won 7 games.
Relf is obviously a bad example, but really though he was a great dual threat COLLEGE QB. Outside of a BCS bowl bound team I don't know of any better run first bruising QB's than him. Hurt, and playing behind a bad OL.
QB's can make or define a team, or in the case of LSU or the SF 49ers they can just be there and not 17 things up.
With the exception of Rodgers, Peyton, Elways, and one of Aikmans, the best defense in that game has historically one the Super Bowl. Obviously the guys who you listed above are all pro QB's and have made their names by being the best in the game, but if you look back the team who had the best Defense usually wins the game. Cant win games without touchdowns, but defense wins championships.
If you will check on most of these QB's at major schools- they will have guys on the OL drafted during their time at QB
NFL chart
Along the lines of what I was thinking...I'll go with this.
http://www.businessinsider.com/nfls-highest-paid-positions-sports-chart-of-the-day-2012-9
Along the lines of what I was thinking...I'll go with this.
http://www.businessinsider.com/nfls-highest-paid-positions-sports-chart-of-the-day-2012-9
Doesnt David Carr hold the NFL record for being sacked the most in a season? He would seem to be the best example of a terrible OL that there is. Him getting beat to death totally changed his career as a QB
And to my point- as long as you are good on the OL and DL- you will win football games. You dont have to be good at QB to win- LSU is the world's example.
And to my point- as long as you are good on the OL and DL- you will win football games. You dont have to be good at QB to win- LSU is the world's example.
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That anyone would argue that Quarterback is not THE preeminent need on every football team is beyond idiocy. Just look at our own 17ing history...
What are MSU's best seasons winning percentage-wise?
1999 (10-2)
1980 (9-3)
1974 (9-3)
Who was our Quarterback?
1999: Wayne Madkin, the school's All-Time leader in passing yardage
1980: John Bond, regarded by many as our best QB ever
1974: Rocky Felker, also considered one of our best quarterbacks ever.
Do you think that's a 17ing coincidence? Case 17ing closed.
In 1999, we had the best defense in the nation. If I'm not mistaken, 6 of the guys on our 2-deep DL went to the NFL. The OL was no slouch either with it's own NFL players. Wayne Madkin was not drafted.
1974 and 1980 were before my time, so I can't comment on them. But, I'm willing to bet we had strong defenses and OL.
1974 and 1980 were before my time, so I can't comment on them. But, I'm willing to bet we had strong defenses and OL.
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your and dubmass
aGAIN- I give you the LSU example...hell, their 2003 title was QB'ed by Matt Mauck who played in exactly 2 NFL games
State's 1999 team? The one that had the nation's #1 defense and the best DL in school history? Tell me about Madkin's Sr year when he was replaced by his back-up. When the defense left, so did Madkin's passing ability. Plus, we had 4 offensive linemen drafted while he was QB
1980? Also one of the school's best defenses- with 7 draft picks on it that season. Our school's greatest win was that year- 6-3. Dynamite offense scored 6 points
Now, the case is closed.
A team's success is directly dependent on the OL and DL- QB is simply the 3rd most important.
1999 was also the year Matt Wyatt had to keep coming in the game to bail out the Great Wayne Madkin so we could win