what were the main things that brought LT down?

[windcrysmary]

I've been reading about all the great things he did, his life story, standing O's at SEC meetings, the national respect he has with the NCAA and all....

yet he obviously rubbed some MSU people wrong and it led to his downfall at MSU.. he's obviously hurt but has no intention leaving and wants to continue to help MSU in any capacity that's available to him... very unlike someone else who left on the worst of terms...

what were the things that caused him to lose his job?

 

[windcrysmary]

I've been reading about all the great things he did, his life story, standing O's at SEC meetings, the national respect he has with the NCAA and all....

yet he obviously rubbed some MSU people wrong and it led to his downfall at MSU.. he's obviously hurt but has no intention leaving and wants to continue to help MSU in any capacity that's available to him... very unlike someone else who left on the worst of terms...

what were the things that caused him to lose his job?

 

[Todd4State]

For me, it was bringing back Ron Polk and not having the balls to do a national search and keeping Jackie too long and allowing our football program to be run into the ground.

I think by doing so, he indirectly helped tarnish two MSU legends and hurt two of MSU's major revenue sports.

He also did not support Rick, even though he was doing a good job, and bitched about how much it cost the school to send the basketball team to the NIT finals.

A lot of people had problems with his lack of fundraising, the fact that he was just flat out cheap, and bascially his goal was to break even every year. He didn't care about the average fan and only wanted to please the cigar boys. He also didn't seem to care about the success of the sports programs, and I honestly sometimes wondered if he wanted us to be bad because it would be easier and cheaper to manage things like gameday on football Saturday's with no people and also not have to worry about the cost of sending the football team to bowl games.

He also allowed Khayat to bully him and do a three year probe of our football team, which led to probation for giving Doug Buckles 20 bucks to buy a sandwich at Oby's and other BS like that.

Oh, and if your rivals like you and give you standing ovations, that not necessarily a good thing. Ask Steve Spurrier.

 

[TBonewannabe]

He might have said it would be bad to vote against the sportsmanship rule but <17> that, it was a ban against cowbells.

 

[MTNDawg.sixpack]

told me of a donation to build locker rooms and facilities for women's soccer. I could care less about women's soccer but the intent was made clear that this large donation would be made if it would go towards getting us up to speed with the rest of the SEC in this area. LT took the money and put sponsor boards and a scoreboard up at the softball field. That would be my last donation if it had been me.

I just don't like the blatant disregard for a donor's wishes and complacency with continuing the status quo. I realize you can't say I want to give 500K and get it all towards scholarships in this area but with regard to facilities what does it matter? It was money you didn't have before as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Maroon Eagle]

Even though much has been said about LT's not being seen as accessible to anyone but cigar boys, I think more than anything it's because he was the fall guy due to the foundations money transfer for the Sherrill buyout. Even though J. Charles Lee approved it, LT became vulnerable when Lee retired.

 

[DawgatAuburn]

That's a pretty good summary Todd. Also, he didn't sign his emails "Go Dogs" mainly because he didn't use email. He had his secretary/next wife print them out for him to read.

 

[RobertF50]

way he use to sell our home games, but I didn't hate him like many do.

 

[SLUdog]

of 2-3 win a season football. People had some problems with LT before 2001 but nobody cared when we had a competitive football program. If we had not fallen off the map in football it would have gone much easier for him. Edited to add: He also did not seem to support our best coach (Stansbury) during the period when we were horrible in football.

 

[bullysleftnut]

was Fogelsong getting ambushed at a college board meeting about LT using money illegally (maybe that's not the right word) to buy out Jackie Sherrill.

But, I think for me he needed to go for many reasons:
1) Lack of innovation. Our Athletic department seemed like it was mired in the 80's and he had absolutely no interest in using the internet to help get people to buy season tickets or get their tickets to people who could make a game.

2) He has a "woe is me" attitude when it comes to MSU athletics -- namely, that we're totally outclasses in the big, bad SEC and that we should be happy to just be here. That there was NO WAY we could EVER compete with the big boys of the SEC, so let's just not try.

3) Lack of concern for the "common fan". I never experienced it personally, but many have recounted his total lack of people skills when it came to talking with the average, everday fan who didn't donate a lot of money.

4) Cheapass attitude. Yeah, he kept us in the black but never did anything to expand our black that much -- see #2.

Basically, he was quite satisfied with the status quo -- and you should NEVER be satisfied with that. If you aren't trying to improve you are just going to fall further behind.

 

[dawgoneyall]

frustrated attitude by everyone in general who was tired of watching LT bend over for everyone in the SEC. He should have had the attitude of 17 the other schools. My school comes first and only first just never seemed to be evident. His management during the NCAA crap is a perfect example. He should have raised hell about players "turning us in" who signed with our enemy and his lack of efforts to demand the Goldie episode was not handled in the same manner as our investigation was handled. Again he was bending over.

Beside all that, his being an AH finally caught up with him.

 

[FlabLoser]

Both of them grew the program. Criticize "staying in the black" all you want, but that's an important job especially at a cash-strapped MS school. The grew us from seedlings into sometimes highly competitive mediocrity. Its not where we want to end up, but it is a necessary step in the road. They got us here and give them credit for that.

But once to that level, they outstayed their usefulness. There's a reason company founders don't lead companies from startup to mega-corporation status. If you don't step back and let a better leader take over at some point, the entity (athletic dept in our case) is going to remain constrained to your own personal limitations.

 

[Todd4State]

was because he would beg a cigar boy to make up for the deficit, so in a way he did and didn't keep us in the black.

It's a little misleading to say the least, unless you consider begging a management strategy.</p>

 

[lake3dawg]

Either MSU athletics was in the black or not.

He could have been aloof and voted to have Bully put to sleep or whatever but credit is due where credit is due and he did a solid job minding the store.</p>

 

[o_Bigohh]

I think what finally did him in was an accumulation of 20 years of decisions. I've made this point before. I don't care who you are, you're going to make someone mad with every decision you make. Do that for 10 years or so you're pretty well done, 20 years you've got no chance. Greg has said more than once that he doesn't expect to be here more that 10 years; that's pretty much the pattern his Dad has followed.
Having **** for a personality didn't help LT either.

 

[Indndawg]

LT should have waited until after the 2000 season or 2001 season to recontract JWS

 

[SnakePlissken]

The big donors also bailed him out on the budget several times as well. Without them we finish in the red.

 

[FlabLoser]

LT sucks because he didn't fundraise enough.

LT sucks because his fundraising was all that kept us in the black.

 

[Todd4State]

LT sucks because he didn't fundraise enough.

LT sucks because his fundraising was all that kept us in the black.

</p>He didn't fundraise enough so that we could reach our full potential, but it was enough to keep us in the black, no matter how he did it.

 

[megadawgmaniac]

Criticize "staying in the black" all you want, but that's an important job especially at a cash-strapped MS school.

</p>

is that overseeing the budget is a basic job description for athletic director. Mississippi state law requires that all universities 'stay in the black'.</p>

So that means that LT was simply getting by and following basic rules and regulations?</p>

I can't personally ***** and moan about LT and his performance or non-performance. I do know that the athletic entity at MSU can do better. That's all most people want now. Just a little better, with hopes to continue growth.</p>

</p>

AA - but the stories I've heard of LT aren't flattering
</p>

 

[HammerOfTheDogs]

Any other Athletic Director would've been perp-walked in shackles to the waiting paddy wagon. A good Athletic Director doesn't tolerate cheating. He should've put safeguards in place after the first set of violations. Instead, he just sat back and let Jackie Sherrill run the program into the ground. If you think the things we got hammered on were minor, petty, and Ole Miss PI-based, then Templeton should gone up to Robert Khayat and kicked him in the balls.

-He voted against the Cowbells. Sure, it was mostly symbolic, but an AD with balls would've said that Cowbells was one of the few Mississippi traditions that hasn't been repealed by the 14th Amendment, the 1965 Civil Rights Act, and/or Political Correctness, so lay off.

-He wasn't nice to me. I want an AD who's nice to me. Templeton ignored me when I wanted to talk to him.

-He looks like Frank Burns from M*A*S*H.

 

[thatsbaseball]

I think an informant(athletic dept. employee) with a hard on to bust LT`s *** came to Doc after he came on board and gave Doc enough ammo to fire 3 LT`s. Interesting that no one has mentioned LT`s "personal finances". I`m not insinuating he stole but I`ve heard of several deals he entered into on behalf of the school which he benefited from personally.

 

[Porkchop.sixpack]

Since the question was about the main things. It's the football record, stupid.

I will, however, point out a few other non-main things:

1. From what I understand, Rick Stansbury and Templeton did not speak. It is horrible that an AD would permit that situation to exist. I have no idea whose fault it is, but an AD shouldn't permit that situation to exist, period. Either he should suck up and apologize, fire Stansbury, or do something in between.
2. LT was getting older and it was just his time. A lot of people's complaints about our athletic department were problems that only new blood would solve. I have gone on record many times as saying that I didn't think, overall, Larry did a bad job. But, we needed some new direction and some new energy and everyone knew it.
3. LT was never a fan favorite. Personally, I don't give a rat's *** about him shaking my hand and listening to me telling him how we should run more passing plays. But, a lot of people did. When football went on the skids, this sentiment was magnified. A lot of people will put up with an ******* if they are winning. ******* and losing? What's the point there?
4. When he was "retired" it was becoming clear that we were going to have to fire Croom. Yet, we had signed Croom to a long-term contract. Either the board's "cigar boys" were going to have to bail us out, or we were going to have to put up with Croom. Nobody liked these choices. Ironically, on this point, firing him might have been premature. (Note: I am not convinced we still won't be faced with this issue.)

 

[8dog]

in the paper the other day, it was mentioned that we have a reserve of $11 million....does anyone know what that is for or why no one has ever mentioned it before?

 

[RocketCityDawg]

Or lack thereof.
I ran into him several times in the pressbox during games.
Said hello, nodded, or acknowledged his presence.

I did nothing to engage him in conversation.

No response from him whatsoever, in the slightest.

OK, I'm not a cigar boy, nor a major donor.

But, I am a country boy from Mississippi.

If you say hello to someone, you expect a response, or acknowledgement.
If not, you are an asshat. Or hole.
Down where I grew up, if you speak to someone and they don't respond,
you have that umbrage thangie.

It's not like he's Brad Pitt or Madonna.

RCD

 

[Eureka Dog]

a lack of manners.

In all of my 45+ years, I've never heard anyone complain of being treated with respect.

If you can't greet someone (especially if they have greeted you first), then you have a problem being respectful to others.

I got my first job, outside of my family, because a store owner had noticed how I had conducted myself during my first 2 years of high school. (His son was 2 years older than me.) I didn't apply for the job, he sought me out.

Treating people "right" always pays off. If for no other reason, nobody can complain about the way you've treated them.

 

[dawgstudent]

I guess it's good to have a reserve but at the same time, I wonder why no one knew.

 

[fishwater99]

Break ground on that BBall practice facility now...

 

[DowntownDawg]

...people's general disfavor with Templeton has less to do with coaching decisions and his smugness, and more to do with his overall attitude. His low self esteem permeated the entire athletic department. During his tenure, if we heard the "We're Mississippi State. We have the smallest budget in the SEC. We can't afford it." mantra once, we heard it 1,000 times. It showed up in a million different places. Scheduling: Go and look at how many SEC teams don't consistently play 7 home games in a 12 game season. Stupid, short sided decisions: Not allowing our basketball team to get national exposure in Hawaii because of the expense of the trip. Voting against the cowbell. The list goes on and on. Templeton operated by fear.

His overall viewpoint was small. He had his 5 donors that he was comfortable with, and whenever he had to keep up with Joneses, he went to them. Contrast that with Greg Byrne, who after 3 official days on the job had raised our athletic budged by 4 million dollars, gotten Coach Croom and Stansbury's contracts finalized, signed the contract on the scoreboard, and made a hire that LT never would've made: bringing in John Cohen. Greg Byrne tells us how we CAN do things, not why we can't.

I don't dislike Templeton because he is an a-hole, and I don't really begrudge him coaching decisions like letting Jackie stay on in 2003 or brining Polk back. Those were popular sentiments at the time. I dislike him because he refused to think about MSU's potential and operated with the smallest mindset possible. I'm sure he cleaned up a mess when he inherited the department 20 years ago, but his heyday was over a about 10 years ago.

 

[Shmuley]

Contrast that with Greg Byrne, who after 3 official days on the job had raised our athletic budged by 4 million dollars, gotten Coach Croom and Stansbury's contracts finalized, signed the contract on the scoreboard, and made a hire that LT never would've made: bringing in John Cohen. Greg Byrne tells us how we CAN do things, not why we can't.

There's no way in hell Byrne is responsible for all of that. No way. [/sarcasm]

[I agree 100%].

 

[DowntownDawg]

Byrne doesn't deserve the vast majority of the credit for what has gone on since he has been in charge. We have a 21 year body of work for Templeton. We know how he operated. We know the rate at which he accomplished things. What Byrne has accomplished in a few months would be a good five years for LT.

It would be like Obama getting elected and immediately pulling the troops out, and then saying that Bush deserved the credit or criticism for that move. ********. We've seen enough to know that's not the case.

 

[Porkchop.sixpack]

The fact that I don't recall it pretty much doesn't mean anything. I remember an article about the size of our budget and the fact taht the budget was pending approval. Was that the article that said something about a reserve?

Sometimes reserves are prior years' excesses -- sort of just leftover money. But, sometimes reserves are simply amounts that are restricted in purpose. -- somebody gives money for scholarships that isn't all going to be spent in one year, or something like that. Restricted reserves are not money that is laying around that can be spent on anything. It is money that is already committed for future expenditures. Just throwing that out as a possibility regarding the dicussed reserves.

 

[Dawgbreeze]

All of the points posted before me are valid. I could care less if he ever spoke to me but the biggest question that is pretty obvious is, "Would anybody hire LT to run their multi million dollar business?" I say no because he could not market, was not willing to change with the times, and allowed a lot of lazy incompetent people hang on. Greg has already changed some of that. as far as Stansbury, LT lied to him on numerous occasions and there is evidence he even lied to the cigar boys a few times. I also believe he made a lot of money off of deals through the University and made sure the athletic dep't was never truly audited by an outside auditing group. That was stopped by Dr. Lee when Klumb and Ross tried to get it done through the IHL. I wish him no ill will, but I am also glad he is gone. MSU will now have a chance to grow.

 

[Porkchop.sixpack]

subject to audit by the state. As far as I know, that has been the case for quite a long time. It's the foundations that everyone was raising hell about. They are audited. They just aren't audited by the state and are not subject to the state's oversight. The auditors of the foundations report to the boards of the foundations, as they should. It isn't the state's money. The state is just an indirect beneficiary of that money. It has been asserted that money is sometimes diverted from the state sponsored athletic budget into the foundations. That does make things a little mirky. However, it would seem to me that the state auditors could take exception to the transfer and might require it to be undone.

 

[AzzurriDawg4]

It was the status quo attitude that pissed me off. Some other poster said lack of innovation, I think that is what it amounts to. It was just going to every other SEC stadium and seeing how "cool" gameday was - how they were marketing their programs, etc. Outside of wins/losses - this was my biggest gripe. It all boils down to creativity, and I believe Templeton has none.

 

[Dawgbreeze]

Porkchop, you are correct but there were people in the Foundations who didn't even know where the money was going. Mickey and LT ran it the way they wanted. Greg has tried to change that and hopefully someone will be accountable. I had one Foundation Director tell me he was even shocked how much LT was making. I find that hard to believe but I am sure there was plenty of money manipulated that nobody knew where it was going or to whom.

 

[Porkchop.sixpack]

The auditors should have picked that type of stuff up and reported it. Of course, all audit engagement letters pretty well say that the auditors aren't responsible for anything ever.