What's wrong with cowbells?

[PhredPhantom]

I'm happy that we will be able to openly take cowbells into football games this year and I hope it doesn't turn out to be a one-year phenomenon.

But I was reading some other threads where people are saying that, although they're lots of fun and a decades old tradition, they don't really have that much effect on the ability of opposing teams to play. Several opposing coaches have said that cowbells didn't really affect their ability to play the game when they come to MSU. Cowbells make noise, obviously, but not enough to keep opposing teams from getting plays off, etc. If this is true, then why are the other 11 SEC schools so opposed to them? Is it jealousy? We don't (currently) have enough stadium capacity to have nearly as much crowd noise as places like Tennessee, Auburn, Alabama, etc. where they have bowled-in stadiums that hold the noise in, not to mention crowds nearly twice as big as ours.

If our cowbells don't really affect the opponents' play of the game, why are other schools so opposed to them?

 

[PhredPhantom]

I'm happy that we will be able to openly take cowbells into football games this year and I hope it doesn't turn out to be a one-year phenomenon.

But I was reading some other threads where people are saying that, although they're lots of fun and a decades old tradition, they don't really have that much effect on the ability of opposing teams to play. Several opposing coaches have said that cowbells didn't really affect their ability to play the game when they come to MSU. Cowbells make noise, obviously, but not enough to keep opposing teams from getting plays off, etc. If this is true, then why are the other 11 SEC schools so opposed to them? Is it jealousy? We don't (currently) have enough stadium capacity to have nearly as much crowd noise as places like Tennessee, Auburn, Alabama, etc. where they have bowled-in stadiums that hold the noise in, not to mention crowds nearly twice as big as ours.

If our cowbells don't really affect the opponents' play of the game, why are other schools so opposed to them?

 

[ckDOG]

That sums it up, really.

 

[Optimus Prime 4]

[No message]

 

[maroonmania]

on gameplay. And I think history bears that out. The last 8 to 9 years have shown MSU loses just as much at home as on the road when the team is poor quality, cowbells or no cowbells.

 

[paindonthurt_]

when our stadium as been the loudest, it wasn't due to cowbells. examples: Anthony Johnson pick six against bama, Jonathon Banks pick six against Florida, etc. People were mostly jumping up and down screaming and not ringing cowbells.

As the poster above said, have they really given us a competitive advantage over the last 8 to 9 years?

 

[KurtRambis4]

they give us a clear, competitive advantage?

 

[Optimus Prime 4]

and yes, of course they do. They raise the volume of the stadium a good 20% at least. And your team sucking is not proof they don't, and you all know that damn well.

 

[Uncle Travelling Matt]

Why doesn't the entire stadium ring them on a huge third down play when state is on offense?

 

[Dawgzilla]

First, no opposing coach is going to admit the bells make a difference. He doesn't what that issue to get into the head of his players, so he's going to claim it makes no difference. So, you can discount what the opposing coaches say.

Second, I haven't seen the noise data the Athletic department came up with, but no one has been able to measure the noise level of 25,000+ cowbells all ringing. We've never had that many bells in the stadium, but we just might get to that level this year. I doubt it will be louder than a 100,000 seat stadium but I suspect it will be much louder than 50,000 fans screaming their heads off.

Finally, not all noise is created equal. Even if the decibel levels are the same, the sharp clanging of cowbells can be much more annoying than people just hollering. I have had friends who are graduates of non-SEC schools tell me they cannot watch games televised from Starkville because all the clanging starts to bother them.

But the question you actually asked was whether cowbells can effect the game any more than a full 100,000 fans screaming and hollering. Personally, I don't think so, but I don't know how you would ever prove it one way or the other (except maybe for the stats that show teams have more pre-snap penalties in Starkville than elsewhere). Since you cannot prove it has no effect, then its pretty easy to claim it is something unusual that most likely does have an effect on the game.

 

[ckDOG]

I return this question: Louder than what? Louder than Vandy's stadium? Sure, I can see that. Louder than any of the other SEC stadiums that dwarf ours? I suspect not. I can see the loudness factor being a legit argument if someone can prove that bells, and not our team, have won games for us. Our record has been simply too dismal for too long for that argument to carry any weight.

Of course they are louder, but it doesn't make any significant difference in the grand scheme of things? If, 30 years down the road, DWS is seating 80k+ and half of them are clanging cowbells, then we may have a problem. Until then, it's not affecting anything other than the visiting fans comfort factor - which is why I think they are a great tradition.

It's simple...people hate cowbells and want them banned because they are out of place when not strapped to a cow in a pasture and have an annoying noise. It's exactly the same as I feel about the countless fat Arkansas women that have perfected the pig sooie chant. I'd love to see them banned, too. I'm sure I'm am as annoyed by them as much as they are of my cowbell, for the exact same reasons - they are strange (to me) and annoying.

 

[Tito Cheeseburger Jr]

Or why do coaches and players urge the crowd to stand up and make noise on important 3rd downs? Why does the Jumbotron give cues for people to cheer before important plays? Crowd noise is a major component of homefield advantage, and cowbells make crowd noise much easier to generate.

 

[Agentdog]

if they don't then why care?

This question tells me you just don't get it. Almost every State fan, can tell a story of being a young fan and receiving a cowbell as a gift. The bells are not just about making noise.

However, it seems you guys want to make the volume of noise an issue. So, we defend our tradition with noise is not an issue. The proof that noise is not an issue is the results on the field. The results on the field simply do not support the theory that the cowbells raising the noise level (by whatever figure it does) gives State an advantage. It is pretty damn simple.

 

[Optimus Prime 4]

not to mention, if it's all about the gift of cowbells and such, ringing them during allowable times shouldn't be an issue.

 

[rem101]

Why doesn't the entire stadium ring them on a huge third down play when state is on offense?

on a big third down when you're on offense. Dubmass.

What a stupid 17ing question.

 

[KurtRambis4]

I just don't believe one single bit that a cowbell is a decisive factor in a football game. That is just beyond ridiculous.

 

[ckDOG]

1) It's fun to ring a cowbell
2) It's awesome that visiting fans are annoyed and/or intrigued
3) For many it brings back memories of the past (big wins, disappointing losses, etc.) Many people can point out the reasons for each dent on their cowbell.
4) Tradition of bells being passed down generations. Even the biggest opponents to cowbells have to acknowledge that the fact that some bells have been at DWS for several decades and generations is a pretty cool.

Back to my original point. You wouldn't understand this because you don't know it. To you, it's just a mechanism to gain some sort of advantage via decibels. To me and others, it's just an inherent part of cheering at a MSU game. It is part of being an MSU fan. You don't clap - you clang your bell. It's what you do. I don't ring a bell because I think the outcome of the play is going to be better. I ring the bell because that's what I've always done. It would be weird otherwise.

One additional note, if sucking isn't proof that bells don't give us a significant advantage, you are going to have to give more proof supporting that bells inherently do. Even our 55k fans are 20% to 30% louder than standard fans with no bells, then we are still looking at a loudness comparable to a 66,000 to 71,500 seat UNBOWLED stadium. Again, who cares? That's pretty standard, an may still be under-intimidating as far as SEC standards go. Until somebody comes out with an objective way to prove that our stadium is significantly louder than the loudest SEC atmosphere, I'm not going to accept it is a significant advantage on the field. SEC teams deal with louder environments every week.

 

[jcdawgman18]

He said that we decibel levels at field level for every game we played, both home and away. He said the loudest point of the year at DWS was when the team came out of the tunnel against Alabama. However, this point was still not as high as the majority of the game we played against Arkansas at Little Rock. So we're really not that loud, if you think about it.

 

[Agentdog]

Oh I know correlation and causation......

Example: Cowbells tradition and Egg Bowl win for State causes OM fans to be pissed about Cowbells.

 

[AROB44]

Has an opposing coach ever complained about them when we lose? Hell no!!! When they lose, they have to find some reason for losing....easy culprit..cowbells.

 

[jcdawgman18]

Has an opposing coach ever complained about them when we lose? Hell no!!! When they lose, they have to find some reason for losing....easy culprit..cowbells.

And his name is Urban Meyer. Whose AD, Jeremy Foley, pushed hard ahead of time to make sure the bells were a big part of the agenda in Destin last week.

 

[FlabLoser]

First, no opposing coach is going to admit the bells make a difference. He doesn't what that issue to get into the head of his players, so he's going to claim it makes no difference. So, you can discount what the opposing coaches say.

Second, I haven't seen the noise data the Athletic department came up with, but no one has been able to measure the noise level of 25,000+ cowbells all ringing. We've never had that many bells in the stadium, but we just might get to that level this year. I doubt it will be louder than a 100,000 seat stadium but I suspect it will be much louder than 50,000 fans screaming their heads off.

Finally, not all noise is created equal. Even if the decibel levels are the same, the sharp clanging of cowbells can be much more annoying than people just hollering. I have had friends who are graduates of non-SEC schools tell me they cannot watch games televised from Starkville because all the clanging starts to bother them.

Fourth, Mike Slive said "its not a noise issue, its a rule issue". The SEC has a rule against them and the SEC has too much of a powerstroke ego to consider eliminating the rule under the urging of a school or group of fans who didn't want to follow the rule - regardless of whether or not the rule has any merit.

 

[ckDOG]

.

 

[jcdawgman18]

nm

 

[ckDOG]

Have their been any coaches that flat out attributed us beating them to cowbells? I know I've heard some casual complaints before. But has any one ever flat out said, "we couldn't compete because we couldn't get our plays in because of those damn bells"? I can't think of any of those instances.

 

[fairweatherfan]

1. At any given game, will our home crowds generate more noise with cowbells than without? YES
2. At any given game, does home crowd noise give a competitive advantage? YES

I don't think that our cowbells generate enough of an advantage to change a game, but you can't say that with 100% surety. The SEC is making a big deal about this because it annoys other SECschoolsand it is a damn fine tradition that no other program in the country even comes close to reproducing.

From my eyes, the competitive advantage does not come in to play by making it harder for the opposing team to run plays, but because of how MSU players react to the sound of the cowbells and get pumped up for big plays. For an MSU alum, hearing a full stadium roar to life with screaming and the clang of cowbells will send chills up your spine. In all sports, the purpose of the game is to win, and that means doing everything you can to beat your opponent. Unfortunately, the rest of the SEC has decided that getting rid of our cowbells is one thing that can help turn the odds (even more) in their favor.

To say that cowbells does not generate more crowd noise, thus more of an advantage, versus the same crowd without cowbells, isn't being totally truthful.

 

[maroonmania]

since we apparently mistreated his good buddy LT.

 

[tenureplan]

That isn't the main motivating factor though. It is tradition.

Just like many Mississippi fans say "The South will rise again" isn't racism, it is tradition. Most fans from other schools do see a bit of racism in it. So if the SEC imposed a rule that you would be fined/penalized if you chanted that, you (as a fan base) would feel that your traditions were being unfairly trampled upon.

 

[maroonmania]

.

 

[Optimus Prime 4]

it's fairly new. And it cost us ever getting to play From Dixie With Love, which is exactly what it looks like will happen with your cowbells.

 

[MrHooch]

and yes, of course they do. They raise the volume of the stadium a good 20% at least. And your team sucking is not proof they don't, and you all know that damn well.

Your complaint is that cowbells raise the volume of our stadium a good 20%... so if we bust out that decibel meter everyone is talking about and we measure all the SEC stadiums... just for sake of ease lets use nice round numbers.

Tennessee - 10000
Florida - 8500
Alabama - 9200
Georgia - 9200
LSU - 9200
MSU - 5500

(all of these estimates are based on roughly 10% of the seating capacity of the respective stadiums, which you can see here. As near as I can figure, more bodies in the stadium should equal more noise, right?)

So give MSU that hefty 20% and what do you get? 6600. wow.

Bump us up to a 6000 to start, you get 7200. Imagine that MSU's stadium magically could seat another 15,000 fans. Then, in your estimation, with the cowbells we'd be making about as much noise as the fans at the Swamp.

So please explain to me how, if we were to pull another FIFTEEN THOUSAND FANS out of our collective asses, making as much noise as another stadium in the SEC is not fair or somehow garners us an advantage.

Take your time... we'll wait.

 

[FlabLoser]

Some schools have about 100,000 fans. Some schools have stands close to the field. Some schools have steep stadium architecture.

Our school has cowbells. Do cowbells offer more home field advantage than our home field would without cowbells? Sure. So what? Do cowbells offer an unfair advantage which makes DWS more advantageous for us than the intricacies of other schools' home fields? Absolutely not.

 

[Dawgzilla]

The cowbell ban actually began after Auburn BEAT MSU in Jackson in 1974 and Jordan complained the bells were interrupting Auburn's snap count.

 

[GroveHard]

http://rivals.yahoo.com/n...eld-adv?urn=ncaaf,244983

 

[jcdawgman18]

A college football team wins more at home than they do on the road. Shocker!

I realize they were looking at percentage improvement at home, but for us that's not a very good stat considering our winning percentage at home is still only 0.350 (and the road being 0.150). Now if we were just as bad on the road and won more than half our games at home, you might be on to something.

 

[AROB44]

I might be mistaken, but I believe Shug complained back around 1963 after we beat them. Could be wrong, but I do believe it was before 1974 when that old coot complained.

 

[FlabLoser]

The cowbell ban actually began after Auburn BEAT MSU in Jackson in 1974 and Jordan complained the bells were interrupting Auburn's snap count.

A ref could stop a game because the crowd was too loud. And a ref could penalize the home team because a crowd was too loud.

CLEARLY things have changed since then, so let us have our bells back dammit.

 

[ckDOG]

Now if we were just as bad on the road and won more than half our games at home, you might be on to something.

This is a garbage stat. How a 0.350 winning percentage can be spun into an advantage is beyond my comprehension. **** records compared to **** records is stupid, pointless, and easily skewed. Besides, average this out over the 10 seasons the stat covers and we have whopping 0.8 SEC Home win vs. SEC Road win per season advantage. Clearly, it must be cowbells and only cowbells, not an inherent home field advantage.

 

[Dawgzilla]

But he whined loud enough after the '74 game to get the rule passed.

 

[KurtRambis4]

proof that they're an advantage is that we have a winning home record? Holy ****, you don't say? So what's everyone elses' secret?