Where do we go from here?

[WVPATX]

The Russian collusion story is dying faster than Pitt.

1. All people of importance admit there is no evidence of any collusion with Russia.
2. Obama knew about Russia in June 2016 and did virtually nothing about it. Zero, zilch, nada.
3. The investigation started based on a dodgy dossier compiled by a Dem group which hired Fusion GPS to put it together. The dossier has been debunked.
4. Comey tried to pay the writer of the dossier, Christopher Steele, $50,000 for further work which is unheard of in the FBI. The writer, Christopher Steele, did not even visit Russia in writing the dossier relying instead on second and third hand accounts.
5. Comey lied in testimony to the Senate, relied on a dodgy dossier, tried to pay $50,000 for a political research hit job. Comey then leaked information to a friend to get his memo of a conversation with Trump in the NY Times.
6. Comey admitted that Loretta Lynch tried and succeeded in getting Comey to call Hillary's investigation a "matter." Comey also admitted that the investigation of Flynn continued despite his meeting with Trump and Trump's HOPE.
7. Comey alluded to an e-mail or two describing the fact that Lynch would put the kibosh on any real Hillary investigation.
8. Were these emails written before or after Lynch's meeting with Billy Boy on that tarmac?
9. CNN is admitting the Russia story is bogus but they focus on it for ratings.
10. Meuller has hired 5 Democrat lawyers as part of his team of investigators. Meuller and Comey are great friends. Meuller must recuse himself since Comey will either be a witness or a suspect.

Now it seems the worm is turning. Lynch is in big trouble. Obama may be called as a witness as to why he did nothing about the Russian hacking and what he knew of the dossier and when did he know it. Comey may be in trouble for his actions in not reporting Lynch's order to refer to the investigation as a "matter" and for lying to the Senate and for leaking at least one document. And we know that Samantha Power, Susan Rice and John Brennan have been subpoenaed by the Senate Intel Committee regarding the unmasking and leaking of names.

 

[Boomboom521]

When Mueller confirms those points, that's when we decide how to move forward. Until then, I choose not to take partisan soldiers at their word. Either side.

 

[WVPATX]

When Mueller confirms those points, that's when we decide how to move forward. Until then, I choose not to take partisan soldiers at their word. Either side.

Meuller is heavily conflicted as pointed out above. He is great friends with Comey who is either a witness or the subject of an investigation. He must recuse himself.

 

[moe]

Meuller is heavily conflicted as pointed out above. He is great friends with Comey who is either a witness or the subject of an investigation. He must recuse himself.

Professional (work) friends not the off duty type and Trump's own deputy AG picked him and everyone (Dems and Repubs) thought he was great. Since Trump says that he has nothing to worry about maybe he should just let this play out .

 

[WVPATX]

Professional (work) friends not the off duty type and Trump's own deputy AG picked him and everyone (Dems and Repubs) thought he was great. Since Trump says that he has nothing to worry about maybe he should just let this play out .

Meuller is violating DOJ policies if he does not recuse himself:

From the USA Today:

Robert Mueller should recuse himself from Russia investigation
William G. Otis, Opinion contributorPublished 3:18 a.m. ET June 14, 2017 | Updated 2:54 p.m. ET June 14, 2017
Former FBI director is too close to his successor, James Comey, to be impartial.
TWEET 8LINKEDIN 235COMMENTEMAILMORE
Robert Mueller is a man of integrity with a long record of public service. In the abstract, he would be the right selection as special counsel in the Russia investigation. Under the specific circumstances of this case, however, with his longtime friend James Comey at the center of the inquiry, Mueller's the wrong choice. The public cannot be as sure as it needs to be of his objectivity.

This is true for reasons similar to those that prompted Attorney General Jeff Sessions to recuse himself from the same investigation. Sessions testified Tuesday that he felt he had no proper choice because he had a potential political conflict of interest, having been a campaign adviser to President Trump. Mueller should likewise step away because he has a potential personal conflict of interest, having been a longtime friend of a crucial witness, Comey, and Comey's key ally at the most important moment of his career.

I met Mueller only once, when he was assistant attorney general for the criminal division. From what I know of his reputation, he's an honest, no-nonsense, effective prosecutor.

Under the present circumstances, however, and not without regret, I believe that the same ethics rules the attorney general cited in his Tuesday testimony counsel against Mueller's continuing to serve in the role assigned to him.

28 USC Section 528 provides:



The Attorney General shall promulgate rules and regulations which require the disqualification of any officer or employee of the Department of Justice, including a United States attorney or a member of such attorney's staff, from participation in a particular investigation or prosecution if such participation may result in a personal, financial, or political conflict of interest, or the appearance thereof. Such rules and regulations may provide that a willful violation of any provision thereof shall result in removal from office.


28 CFR Section 45.2 provides in part:



Disqualification arising from personal or political relationship.
(a) Unless authorized under paragraph (b) of this section, no employee shall participate in a criminal investigation or prosecution if he has a personal or political relationship with:
(1) Any person or organization substantially involved in the conduct that is the subject of the investigation or prosecution; or
(2) Any person or organization which he knows has a specific and substantial interest that would be directly affected by the outcome of the investigation or prosecution ...

(c) For the purposes of this section:
(2) Personal relationship means a close and substantial connection of the type normally viewed as likely to induce partiality. ... Whether relationships (including friendships) of an employee to other persons (outside his or her family) or organizations are "personal" must be judged on an individual basis with due regard given to the subjective opinion of the employee.

Comey and Mueller have been friends for nearly 15 years. They were partners in the episode that defined Comey's professional persona more than any other in his public service. It would be surprising if it had not also forged a permanent bond with Mueller.

It was Comey, as deputy attorney general, and Mueller, then head of the FBI, who together confronted White House Counsel Alberto Gonzales in the hospital room of then-seriously ill Attorney General John Ashcroft in a successful attempt to block the White House from implementing a surveillance protocol that Gonzales and, tentatively, President George W. Bush favored.

The protocol was temporarily halted. Comey, shortly thereafter, talked with Bush at the White House and, in what must have been an intense meeting, persuaded him not to go forward with it. It was one of the most dramatic and telling episodes in the first part of the Bush administration. In essence, in the early stages of a still-shocked nation's response to the 9/11 attacks, Comey and Mueller stood arm-in-arm at the Pass at Thermopylae.

Comey now finds himself at the center of the Russian investigation over which Mueller presides. Questions swirl around Comey — about whether the president wanted/hinted/hoped/asked/directed/or something else the investigation of former national security adviser Michael Flynn to be stopped/abandoned/slowed/soft-peddled/something else. This is probably the central element of the obstruction of justice case that Trump's opponents would like to see made against him.

Questions also swirl about Comey's notes about this conversation and why he gave them to a private individual (professor Dan Richman of Columbia Law) to convey to journalists. Additional questions have arisen about whether this curious and seemingly devious means of putting the contents of the notes in the public domain (leaking, in other words) was designed specifically to bring about the appointment of a special counsel outside the president's direct reach — and, indeed, whether Comey wanted, expected or intended his friend Mueller to get the job.

There is much to be said for all this, none of it happy-making. One thing that can be said with clarity is that, under the ethics rules cited by Sessions, Mueller has a long-term relationship with Comey that "may result in a personal ... conflict of interest, or the appearance thereof."

Mueller is therefore disqualified. I hope and suspect that Mueller, whom I believe to be a partisan of the rule of law, will see this. If he doesn't, I hope Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein will.

Experienced attorneys prefer rule-orientation and properly fear self-justification, a ubiquitous flaw in even the best of men. There is no way Comey is anything but a central witness in this investigation — if not a subject. Even less is there a way Mueller can be expected to evaluate Comey's credibility with the fresh neutrality, arm's-length curiosity, and objective sharp eye his job demands.

 

[moe]

Meuller is violating DOJ policies if he does not recuse himself:

You're entitled to your opinion.

 

[countryroads89_rivals]

You're entitled to your opinion.

Actually it is the opinion of William G. Otis, the same guy that pushed for commuting the sentence of Scooter Libby.

[laughing]

 

[WVPATX]

Actually it is the opinion of William G. Otis, the same guy that pushed for commuting the sentence of Scooter Libby.

He is simply citing DOJ policies. Are you suggesting these policies either don't exist or don't matter?

 

[moe]

It's the interpretation of those policies that is key.

 

[Boomboom521]

Meuller is violating DOJ policies if he does not recuse himself:

From the USA Today:

Robert Mueller should recuse himself from Russia investigation
William G. Otis, Opinion contributorPublished 3:18 a.m. ET June 14, 2017 | Updated 2:54 p.m. ET June 14, 2017
Former FBI director is too close to his successor, James Comey, to be impartial.
TWEET 8LINKEDIN 235COMMENTEMAILMORE
Robert Mueller is a man of integrity with a long record of public service. In the abstract, he would be the right selection as special counsel in the Russia investigation. Under the specific circumstances of this case, however, with his longtime friend James Comey at the center of the inquiry, Mueller's the wrong choice. The public cannot be as sure as it needs to be of his objectivity.

This is true for reasons similar to those that prompted Attorney General Jeff Sessions to recuse himself from the same investigation. Sessions testified Tuesday that he felt he had no proper choice because he had a potential political conflict of interest, having been a campaign adviser to President Trump. Mueller should likewise step away because he has a potential personal conflict of interest, having been a longtime friend of a crucial witness, Comey, and Comey's key ally at the most important moment of his career.

I met Mueller only once, when he was assistant attorney general for the criminal division. From what I know of his reputation, he's an honest, no-nonsense, effective prosecutor.

Under the present circumstances, however, and not without regret, I believe that the same ethics rules the attorney general cited in his Tuesday testimony counsel against Mueller's continuing to serve in the role assigned to him.

28 USC Section 528 provides:



The Attorney General shall promulgate rules and regulations which require the disqualification of any officer or employee of the Department of Justice, including a United States attorney or a member of such attorney's staff, from participation in a particular investigation or prosecution if such participation may result in a personal, financial, or political conflict of interest, or the appearance thereof. Such rules and regulations may provide that a willful violation of any provision thereof shall result in removal from office.


28 CFR Section 45.2 provides in part:



Disqualification arising from personal or political relationship.
(a) Unless authorized under paragraph (b) of this section, no employee shall participate in a criminal investigation or prosecution if he has a personal or political relationship with:
(1) Any person or organization substantially involved in the conduct that is the subject of the investigation or prosecution; or
(2) Any person or organization which he knows has a specific and substantial interest that would be directly affected by the outcome of the investigation or prosecution ...

(c) For the purposes of this section:
(2) Personal relationship means a close and substantial connection of the type normally viewed as likely to induce partiality. ... Whether relationships (including friendships) of an employee to other persons (outside his or her family) or organizations are "personal" must be judged on an individual basis with due regard given to the subjective opinion of the employee.

Comey and Mueller have been friends for nearly 15 years. They were partners in the episode that defined Comey's professional persona more than any other in his public service. It would be surprising if it had not also forged a permanent bond with Mueller.

It was Comey, as deputy attorney general, and Mueller, then head of the FBI, who together confronted White House Counsel Alberto Gonzales in the hospital room of then-seriously ill Attorney General John Ashcroft in a successful attempt to block the White House from implementing a surveillance protocol that Gonzales and, tentatively, President George W. Bush favored.

The protocol was temporarily halted. Comey, shortly thereafter, talked with Bush at the White House and, in what must have been an intense meeting, persuaded him not to go forward with it. It was one of the most dramatic and telling episodes in the first part of the Bush administration. In essence, in the early stages of a still-shocked nation's response to the 9/11 attacks, Comey and Mueller stood arm-in-arm at the Pass at Thermopylae.

Comey now finds himself at the center of the Russian investigation over which Mueller presides. Questions swirl around Comey — about whether the president wanted/hinted/hoped/asked/directed/or something else the investigation of former national security adviser Michael Flynn to be stopped/abandoned/slowed/soft-peddled/something else. This is probably the central element of the obstruction of justice case that Trump's opponents would like to see made against him.

Questions also swirl about Comey's notes about this conversation and why he gave them to a private individual (professor Dan Richman of Columbia Law) to convey to journalists. Additional questions have arisen about whether this curious and seemingly devious means of putting the contents of the notes in the public domain (leaking, in other words) was designed specifically to bring about the appointment of a special counsel outside the president's direct reach — and, indeed, whether Comey wanted, expected or intended his friend Mueller to get the job.

There is much to be said for all this, none of it happy-making. One thing that can be said with clarity is that, under the ethics rules cited by Sessions, Mueller has a long-term relationship with Comey that "may result in a personal ... conflict of interest, or the appearance thereof."

Mueller is therefore disqualified. I hope and suspect that Mueller, whom I believe to be a partisan of the rule of law, will see this. If he doesn't, I hope Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein will.

Experienced attorneys prefer rule-orientation and properly fear self-justification, a ubiquitous flaw in even the best of men. There is no way Comey is anything but a central witness in this investigation — if not a subject. Even less is there a way Mueller can be expected to evaluate Comey's credibility with the fresh neutrality, arm's-length curiosity, and objective sharp eye his job demands.

So then, I guess their friendship was completely hidden? There was just no way of knowing prior to his appointment? Now that we've found these ties (that were so sinisterly hidden), we have an excuse....i mean we have a legitimate reason for picking someone else.

 

[WVPATX]

So then, I guess their friendship was completely hidden? There was just no way of knowing prior to his appointment? Now that we've found these ties (that were so sinisterly hidden), we have an excuse....i mean we have a legitimate reason for picking someone else.

Now that Comey could be both a witness and the subject of an investigation, Meuller's friendship is a conflict. This is not difficult to see.

 

[Boomboom521]

Now that Comey could be both a witness and the subject of an investigation, Meuller's friendship is a conflict. This is not difficult to see.

Not difficult to see that the head of the FBI would be a figure involved in this investigation from the get go there skippy.....so again WHY was he picked then????

Bunch of fvcking babies. Senate, House, FBI, now the special prosecutor......all biased and tainted by deep state and dem ties! Listen to yourselves would you

 

[WVPATX]

Not difficult to see that the head of the FBI would be a figure involved in this investigation from the get go there skippy.....so again WHY was he picked then????

Bunch of fvcking babies. Senate, House, FBI, now the special prosecutor......all biased and tainted by deep state and dem ties! Listen to yourselves would you

I am simply suggesting Meuller follow DOJ policy. Sessions did. Why is Meuller excused? Comey could well be the subject of the investigation, not just a witness. That changes everything. That was not known at the time of Meuller's appointment.

 

[moe]

I am simply suggesting Meuller follow DOJ policy. Sessions did. Why is Meuller excused? Comey could well be the subject of the investigation, not just a witness. That changes everything. That was not known at the time of Meuller's appointment.

It's Mueller....and you want to be a journalist smh.

 

[Boomboom521]

I am simply suggesting Meuller follow DOJ policy. Sessions did. Why is Meuller excused? Comey could well be the subject of the investigation, not just a witness. That changes everything. That was not known at the time of Meuller's appointment.

Geez....either the man has integrity or not. Maybe someone NOT a friend to the head of an organization investigating the matter should have been chosen?

 

[WVPATX]

It's Mueller....and you want to be a journalist smh.

I want to be a journalist? LMAO.

 

[WVPATX]

Geez....either the man has integrity or not. Maybe someone NOT a friend to the head of an organization investigating the matter should have been chosen?

Sessions has integrity and he recused himself due to DOJ policy. I believe the Special Counsel should have no relationship with Comey whatsoever or a relationship with any potential witness or subject of the investigation.

 

[Boomboom521]

Sessions has integrity and he recused himself due to DOJ policy. I believe the Special Counsel should have no relationship with Comey whatsoever or a relationship with any potential witness or subject of the investigation.

Then why was he chosen? And so what now.....what (outside of dropping the investigation all together) would please the loyalists?

 

[WVPATX]

Then why was he chosen? And so what now.....what (outside of dropping the investigation all together) would please the loyalists?

Appoint another counsel. Simple. Expand the scope to include leaking as well as the Lynch angle. It we are going to investigate, make it thorough and non-partisan.

 

[BoremanSouth]

So if/when another counsel is appointed and a conflict with the WH arises, what then? Pick another one? Running the US government like the fvcking Apprentice is smart.

 

[WVPATX]

So if/when another counsel is appointed and a conflict with the WH arises, what then? Pick another one? Running the US government like the fvcking Apprentice is smart.

The DOJ policies are quite clear. Sessions followed them. Why not Meuller?

 

[Boomboom521]

Appoint another counsel. Simple. Expand the scope to include leaking as well as the Lynch angle. It we are going to investigate, make it thorough and non-partisan.

That's EXACTLY what it was when Mueller was appointed. Prediction: Mueller will stay on, and jagoffs will have an out, if things don't go they way they want.

 

[BoremanSouth]

Someone remind me who the snowflakes are again? The lines are pretty blurry at this point.

 

[WVPATX]

That's EXACTLY what it was when Mueller was appointed. Prediction: Mueller will stay on, and jagoffs will have an out, if things don't go they way they want.

This is exactly why he should recuse himself. Let there be no doubt. No excuses. Otherwise, this will never end as people on both sides will never agree on Meuller's independence and thus his conclusions. The DOJ policies are there for a reason.

 

[Boomboom521]

This is exactly why he should recuse himself. Let there be no doubt. No excuses. Otherwise, this will never end as people on both sides will never agree on Meuller's independence and thus his conclusions. The DOJ policies are there for a reason.

Be nice if the administration had the sense to make this happen already

 

[mneilmont]

I am simply suggesting Meuller follow DOJ policy. Sessions did. Why is Meuller excused

That is where the problem began when Sessions jumped the gun to recuse himself. So much crap has gone on between the start and today. Sessions acted too hastily. He should have discussed with Trump, and maybe the opposition. Were actions necessarily going to be pursued? Don't run from the case until potential conflict is pointed out. Then asst AG jumps too fast to make an appointment. Now the thing has legs and will go on for ever and unlimited cost. Sessions acted to quickly without using his own team to see if there was a case. Sessions' fault.

 

[WVPATX]

That is where the problem began when Sessions jumped the gun to recuse himself. So much crap has gone on between the start and today. Sessions acted too hastily. He should have discussed with Trump, and maybe the opposition. Were actions necessarily going to be pursued? Don't run from the case until potential conflict is pointed out. Then asst AG jumps too fast to make an appointment. Now the thing has legs and will go on for ever and unlimited cost. Sessions acted to quickly without using his own team to see if there was a case. Sessions' fault.

I completely agree.