Which program was worse when Cohen inherited it?

[Sutterkane]

UK or MSU?

Looking at UK's record his second season and where we are right now, I'd say we're on track to an extent....I'm personally not off the wagon yet.

 

[Sutterkane]

UK or MSU?

Looking at UK's record his second season and where we are right now, I'd say we're on track to an extent....I'm personally not off the wagon yet.

 

[opusdawg]

nm

 

[Coach34]

that should show everyone how much our program has fallen

 

[Todd4State]

I have actually seen both teams in person.

I think that UK team that Cohen had was less talented than we are right now- especially as far as pitching, but they had a much better attitude and they played the game WAY harder than we do. UK had better team speed than we do now. We are more athletic. As I said, we have better pitching.

We have Conner Powers, UK had a guy named John Shelby, Jr. and they both the best players for both teams. Besides that, not much else as far as players.

 

[8dog]

Ryan Strieby, Colin Cowgill or Sean Coughlin currently in the program. Maybe some of our signees will fill those roles but that's a lot of production to ask of true freshmen.

 

[Rebels7]

UK has always been an also ran. I understand you guys are less than pleased about the progress so far, but I don't see how this is even close.

 

[alabamadog]

you will see why the Omaha run isn't very relevant to our current team. Whitney and Houston were the only pitchers and both had an era over 5. Conner Powers was the only everyday starter on that team. Butler and Sneed started around 20 games, and I'm assuming most of them were midweek games. Basically, the only player who was a big part of getting the team to Omaha was Powers. Cohen hasn't helped himself with some of what he has done, such as starting Frost, but the 2007 team doesn't have much to do with our current players.

 

[Rebels7]

Do Florida State and Baylor have comparable programs?

Edited to add: football programs, that is....

 

[maroonmania]

baseball signing class was likely the worst I've ever seen at MSU. I remember thinking how pathetic that class was for us to actually be a CWS team.

 

[Todd4State]

Polk's run ran out. I think Raffo/Polk were able to get a Ed Easley, Mitch Moreland type that could keep us a float, but we had way too many Jet Butler's. By 2008, the threshold of Jet Butler's had exceeded the threshold of Mitch Moreland's. Russ McNickle ruining a ton of arms killed our team as well. We couldn't recruit pitchers because word had gotten around that he would ruin you if you came to MSU. Especially when one of the people that was the most vocal about him was a former MLB pitcher.

But again, the 2007 team and the 2008 team were nothing alike.

2007 team

C- Ed Easley- Supplemental first round pick at catcher
1B- Brian LaNinfa- solid fifth year senior
2B- Brandon Turner- around .400 most of the year
3B- Russ Sneed
SS- Jet Butler
RF- Mitch Moreland- One of the top prospects in the Rangers system, and probably will play in MLB this year or next.
CF- Jeffrey Rea- Very good hitter, very solid All-SEC candidate type player.
LF- Joseph McKaskill- solid fifth year senior
DH- Conner Powers- Future All-SEC type player as a freshman who hit over .300 for us and hit 9 home runs.

P- Justin Pigott- Solid fourth year junior, should have been a midweek guy
P- Chad Crosswhite- Had his best year in 07, should have been a middle reliever at best
P- Josh Johnson- Threw hard, often hit hard.

Closer- Aaron Weatherford- Very good closer along with Moreland, who was also a very effective closer.

The 2008 Team.

C- Cody Freeman and Ryan Duffy- a freshman and a Sophomore who couldn't field.
1B-Tyler Moore- Solid college player
2B- Jet- Sucks
3B- Russ Sneed- Sucks
SS- Ryan Powers- Sucks
RF- Andy Rally Killer Rice- See nickname
CF- Grant Hogue- Very good college player
LF- Jason Nappi- Had a good game against UAB.
DH- Conner Powers- Good player, got hurt.

P- Pigott- Worn down, overworked fifth year senior
P- Crosswhite- Pitched hurt much of the year and was lagely ineffective because of it.
P- Rickey Bowen- the "ace" with an ERA of about 7

P- Weatherford- Great closer.

 

[Rebels7]

But he asked about programs. I don't care about Polk, recruiting/not recruiting, etc. With State's past (very recent past even) financial support, fan support, and facilities, saying that State was a worse program to take over than Kentucky seems ridiculous.

All I was saying.

 

[Optimus Prime 4]

predictions of two years, max three.

 

[Dawgfan61]

You said in reference to basketball that you would take a few losing seasons mixed in for a season of greatness.

This is the exact same position we are in, in baseball.

 

[Shmuley]

because I honestly had no concept that the program was as ****** as it apparently is as far as returning talent is concerned.

I had no idea cholk left the mess he did.

And I'll be the first to admit that doubts about how quickly the situation can be turned around have creeped in.

 

[Optimus Prime 4]

[No message]

 

[ScoobaDawg]

I expected hoover and a regional this year...but I really believe that is the lowest benchmark that should be set EVERY YEAR.
But I knew we would not do that last year but did strongly feel that way going into the season..likely on the hype of Connor returning and the highly ranked recruiting class of pitchers.

Now..I dont see any chance of us making either goals this year let along winning 10 more games.

 

[Shmuley]

they've quit on him and he's quit on them (or some of them). It's well beyond frustration.

Anyway, I want his *** out there recruiting like a MFer. There's only one way to fix this **** and that's put talented, ballsy asses on the field.

 

[patdog]

But you're right that there were a lot of posters who turned a blind eye toward the shape of the program that Polk left us with. Talent-wise, Polk left us with less than Crxxm did.

 

[alabamadog]

of the program. Fresno State went to Omaha and won it a couple years ago, but I don't view them as being a great program. As far as comparing us to Kentucky, I have no idea how bad it was there. I'massuming we had the better of the two programs when Cohen took over, but it wasn't because we made it to Omaha in 2007.

 

[Rebels7]

But going to Omaha (2 years before) certainly isn't indicative that you're one of the worst in the conference. And that is what UK always had been (generally).

I don't want to get into a semantic argument, but if UK was a better program as a whole, it wouldn't make sense to leave to go to a worse program. Bad team, bad direction? Probably. But worse program? No way.

ETA: I think we're on the same page, just arguing different points.

 

[Todd4State]

but, I did know that it would take a little bit of time to get it to where I want it to be- which is a national championship contender. I think I picked us to win 30 games in Cohen's first year, as I did this year. That would put us at 30-26, which I consider to be average. We probably would have gotten to 30 his first year had Rickey Bowen not freaked out. We still may get to 30 this year. I'm not counting on it. I think it depends a lot on how Nick Routt pitches. I think we also need to stop playing top 10 teams. Fortunately, we only have LSU left in the top 10 category. 14 of our 16 losses have been to ranked teams, and of those I believe seven were to teams ranked in the top10. I can't remember where South Carolina was ranked when we played them.

If I had to put myself in a category, I'm more of a three year person than a four. The thing about baseball is, yes the players are only there for three years on average, so you have more turnover, which leads to making it easier for a coach to get his players in, yet, because of how baseball recruiting works, a coach has to play an entire year with someone else's players. If you are a coach, I guess you hope that you can go into a situation like McDonnell did at Louisville where they already had a ton of talent. Of course, that's kind of unusual.

Next year, we will be playing some combination of freshmen as well as the current JUCO guys. There will be very few of Polk's players left. I'm not expecting to go to Omaha or anything grand like that next year, but like the freshmen pitchers this year, I expect some struggles and at the same time also expect to see promise. We could start all JUCO's next year, or we could start all freshmen- I'm expecting about half and half at any given time next year. I expect the power to go down a notch because we lose Conner Powers, but I actually think we might hit better, I think we will be faster and that will lead to more improved aggressive base runnning, I expect better defense, and I excpect the pitching to be better. The only thing I'm not 100% sold on myself is the hitting because again, we don't know how the freshmen will do, but we are hitting so poorly, it really wouldn't be all that impossible to improve upon it even with a bunch of freshmen.

 

[Todd4State]

they've quit on him and he's quit on them (or some of them). It's well beyond frustration.



Anyway, I want his *** out there recruiting like a MFer. There's only one way to fix this **** and that's put talented, ballsy asses on the field.

is the most disappointing thing to me. If there is anything I underestimated, it was how the players would respond to Cohen. I kind of figured that they would have put the whole Polk/Raffo thing behind them sometime during the first season that Cohen was here. Like most people would. But they have not.

The reason that's disappointing to me is because it tells me that they are loyal only to a coach, and not MSU or winning baseball games. I understand that they may have come here because of the coaching staff, but ultimately you play for a team, in this case MSU, and not a coach, who is also part of the team. They need to understand that it is not their place to tell the MSU administration who the coach is or should be. They are only here for four years, and MSU has to do what is best for the program long-term. They may not like being yelled at, but that's part of life. I know that I have been yelled at where I work a couple of times- and neither time did I deserve it or was I even in the wrong, but instead of being a ***** about it, I did what I was supposed to and everything came out OK. Also, they have to understand that when you go out to work- and they will because most of them will not be able to handle playing professional baseball if they can not handle being yelled at or cussing- they may go to work for a boss that they like and then that boss may leave and they may have to work for a boss that they don't like. And they can say- 'Well winning isn't everything", well my response to that is, well, first of all they're keeping score, secondly you should want to do your very best regardless, and thirdly, people are spending their hard earned money and giving their time to watch you perform. You owe it to those people to perform your best. And really, that should be how it is with anything in life. If they think that I go out to the games to yell at them because I hate my life, well, nothing could be further from the truth. First of all, I very rarely yell at the players. I may criticize them in the stands or often on sixpack, but I'm not going to stand up and just start screaming at them. Secondly, I watch because it reminds me more than anything of spending time with my Dad and uncle watching baseball. Thirdly, I'm pretty content with my life as it is. When I was growing up, there was nothing that I wanted more than to play professional baseball and to play baseball at MSU, like my uncle and Dad. God had a different plan for me, which is to help people out who are sick and to help them to try to get better and to try to make their lives better. I also get to teach students who are going to go out and help others as well. There was a time in my life where I had an opportunity to learn how to coach baseball on the high school level when I was a student at MSU, and I chose not to do it, so it's not like I haven't had other opportunities to be a part of the game throughout my life. I'm very blessed and satisfied with my life all in all, and I still enjoy baseball.

And I'm not totally excusing Cohen because there are some things he could do to build a little bit of goodwill. Is there really that much difference between Tyler Whitney and Kendall Graveman at this point? Both of their ERA's are in the 7's. If you play Whitney, at least the team might play a little bit harder for you. Tyler is also experienced as an SEC starting pitcher and has had success where Graveman has not to this point. Sam Frost is also perplexing as well. Cohen needs to understand- and maybe he finally has- that no matter how much he benches Jet Butler or plays a walk-on at his position, he is not going to ever be a good defensive player.

 

[ScoobaDawg]

I had us at 32 to 34 wins this season...no chance of that now.

As far as how much nick will help down the stretch...I'm not counting on it all.
He is a smart player with talent and knows their is more to his baseball career than this season.

 

[dawgoneyall]

Their (KY) previous coach was at least trying to put a decent team on the field. Our previous coach had other issues more important than MSU baseball.

 

[bulldogcountry1]

I haven't been able to watch any games in person this year, but it's pretty evident that the team lacks heart and effort, especially among the upperclassmen.

Is there a divide between Polk's player and Cohen's?

Are the younger ones buying into the plan?

Having kept up with the team for 20 years or so, there were seasons where the talent level just wasn't good, but you could always count on MSU baseball players to give 100% and fight through those down years and win some games that we shouldn't. That's where I have to give Polk the credit. He was too distracted to aim for the top, but his players loved him and played hard for him. Cohen may vell end up being a guy like that too, but some things need to change. I'm just not sure what they are.

 

[Tito Cheeseburger Jr]

I know little about MSU baseball and nothing about UK baseball. It's possible that UK's coach before Cohen found a bunch of diamonds in the rough and was fired before they matured. But when Polk was beating OM to win the SEC tourney and then going to the CWS, I don't remember any of my State friends moaning about the state of the program to the point that they were predicting the bottom to fall out for the foreseeable future. Some of them explained the postseason success as the result of MSU baseball mystique that Ole Miss would never have (which incidentally dooms the Rebels to be chronic chokers.) This is anecdotal of course so maybe I'm way off.

Cohen could call recruits his first day at MSU and tell them that 2 years ago (or whenever it was), his program had 8,000 fans watching the team win a super and get to Omaha. He couldn't do that in Lexington.

 

[8dog]

the attitude or approach of Polk's guys for this brutality. If someone wants to blame talent, I can go there to an extent, but to keep fabricating these stories about attitude is out of control.

Some of ya'll act like Cohen is going to end up recruiting nothing but Chuck Norrises.

Hell, someone has some people thinking Polk's players are tanking on purpose. I hope no one really believes that.