At the risk of going somewhat "off-thread," any feeling out there in Edgy land about the advent of spread offense as a form of equalizer that might inhibit certain types of obscene dominations that we have seen itemized in this forum? Certain pockets of domination may still occur in the regular season and/or playoffs, but is the needle slowly going downward in this regard?
Which team has had the most significant era as THE program
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I dont know woody, it may have mitigated against some schools completely physically dominating less physical teams but still the game is generally won in the trenches. In most cases Id say one domination was traded in for another.
Instead of JCA dominating its Montini.
In high school I believe the spread is starting to dominate just like the 3/5/3 defense is starting to take over! The reason I think is that you don't see as many dominating athletic big lineman anymore. The reason for this I believe is the numbers dwindling in the sport. Look at the smaller schools, 3A, 4A, 5A, and 6A, the ones that put in the spread and utilize the athelete's they have seem to be successful. When the spread is run effectively it forces more men out of the box on defense. Look at the JCA / NAZ games last year. I believe that JCA lost the second game to NAZ because of what NAZ did in the second half of the first game. NAZ had more options with there offence than JCA did with their traditional offense. Look at Montini and how they have done since they put in the spread! Again just my opinion!
Agreed to some extent, but there are plenty of teams that get obliterated running the spread. You still have to be able to compete physically.
Blocking a tackling dummy is easier than blocking a 290lb DT with a mean streak, especially when youre 210lbs.
I would argue that getting kids in the weight room is a big part of being able to block and tackle. Kids have to develop, grow, and get stronger. It all starts up front with your front 5-6 regardless of what scheme your running.
I would think the wing T or option would be better for smaller lineman. Pass blocking is required to run the spread. Smaller, not athletic lineman will get your QB injured.
To be fair...despite the different styles, Montini has never been up against JCA at half, and I think all but the 70 point game were extremely close...even in that game JCA was up mid-way through the 3rd. Had JCA won those games, I think they win all the titles bronco did, plus possibly the title game Bronco lost to SHG...JCA seems to always play their best ball against SHG.
Absolutely, and Montini can compete up front with JCA generally. So its not like Montini is avoiding getting obliterated by passing like they tend to.
As a matter of fact JCA still double winging it in this era of spreads and still being successful is the argument against the premise.
True, but how many state titles have they won since 07 compared to Montini? 2007 was the year Montini switched from the veer to the spread! Winning their first spread offense title in 2008 after going 5 and 4 in the regular season.
I believe if the 210lb lineman that gets in the weight room can block the 280lb kid with a mean streak. How? By having your strong little lineman zone block! If the big DT is taking you one direction ride him out of the play! The ball carrier will have to read the hole. That is why zone blocking works good with the spread, less men in the box! Power blocking with a smaller OL to a bigger DL when he's giving up 80lb's is not going to work, no matter how strong the OL is! Any how that's my opinion!
If your lineman have good feet and pass pro block properly they will be adequate! My opinion again!
Sure, but you should be realistic with high school offensive lineman being able to zone block. And having a high school offensive line coach being able to teach kids how to zone block.
You nailed it on the head, a capable offensive line coach on the staff, with kids that have hearts as big as a lion!
If your lineman have good feet and pass pro block properly they will be adequate! My opinion again!
Isn't good feet a sign of being somewhat athletic?
So in your opinion the difference between class 8A public schools and 1A public schools is that 8A schools lift more?
none. a few seconds, but whose counting. That said, the monit faithful on the board, which make a fantastic lot, will also tell you that Bronco has benefitted from some very very very timely transfers. I have no problem with that, none what so ever as demonstrated from my posting history. However, when talking about "schemes" - not personal - that has to matter. Rhode, that unreal running back/every other position guy, some linemen, another QB....that has to be taken into account when discussing schemes....they work, when you have the personnel...
Bronco, I know you all know me too well to take this as any kind of shot. We benefitted from the Ivloww transfer...
But youre ignoring the spread teams that JCA likely dispatched of quite easily. They havent had the success that JCA has.
Correct me if I'm wrong but these are spread schools:
Wheaton North
St. Viator
Marian Catholic
Marian Central Catholic
Naz
Marist
Vernon Hills
All these spread teams were beat by JCA last year. I fail to see how the spread is the great neutralizer.
Not sure the class difference was mentioned in my post.
No. Having 2500+ kids in your school compared to >250 is the difference. Having a budget to have a college sized coaching staff is the difference. Having the money to have four different jersey combos is the difference. Having BIG 10 coaches at your school every recruiting period is the difference.
My point was that kids can develop substantially in high school if they put in effort in the weight room.
Point was that if the difference was lifting then there actually is no purpose to having classes. No scheme can account for the opponent simply being able to dominate you physically. Which is the reason we have classes. Yours and Mr T's answer for that assumes that the 210lb kid has better coaching and more "heart" which is a major assumption.
Mt Carmel's state championship record is 12 - 5.
Of our 12 wins, two were at the highest level at that time (1988 -- 6A -- and 2012 -- 8A). Nine titles were one level down. One title (2002) was two levels down.
Of our five losses, two were at the highest level (2006 and 2010 -- both 8A) and three were one level down.
We were also City Champions nine times (before the IHSA began having state championships.)
Our 1950 team was voted the greatest in the history of Illinois by Taylor Bell.
i don't want to sound arrogant, but no school comes close to our history in Illinois high school football. Period.
Of our 12 wins, two were at the highest level at that time (1988 -- 6A -- and 2012 -- 8A). Nine titles were one level down. One title (2002) was two levels down.
Of our five losses, two were at the highest level (2006 and 2010 -- both 8A) and three were one level down.
We were also City Champions nine times (before the IHSA began having state championships.)
Our 1950 team was voted the greatest in the history of Illinois by Taylor Bell.
i don't want to sound arrogant, but no school comes close to our history in Illinois high school football. Period.
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Yes. So the kids that have aspirations of being the fullback, tightend, or even a quarterback, if they aren't fast enough or there is a kid that is a little better at that position, they can be lineman. It's up to the coach and how good he is in convincing the kid to buy in to the family and change! Best atheletes on the field!
Marian Central was NOT a spread team last year! Was JCA in the finals last year, and did they win state?
I hear you about the transfers that Montini has received, don't care for it, but it was all okayed by the IHSA. So it is what it is. The only time I'm not a Montini fan is when they are playing MCC! Here is a tribute question for you all. Which team has beaten Montini the most and also have had their season ended the most by Montini since 2006?
Rewatch the whole game! The only time MCC moved the ball with any success was when they were spread out. IT also was mostly by the run in that formation! Most of year they ran a form of JCA's offense. The new MCC head coach is from JCA!
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Agreed. MC's success is staggering. But I still think SR (especially when at 63rd street) was the team most willing to go "toe to toe" with MC, which was always a source of pride for Rita guys. The world has progressed and become less macho, so that is probably meaningless now.
I watched that whole video and all the offensive plays had 4 or 5 WRs including MCCs 1 TD.
So Im not seeing where youre coming from on this one. Are you suggesting they were really a power running I Form team but the video just didnt catch any of those plays?
Through the season they played a lot of double wing using a lot of jet sweep to set up other running plays. When they threw it was mostly in the flats or side line attempts, not in the middle of the field deep enough to stretch the defense to open up things underneath. I believe it is easier to defend a spread team, man to man when all they do is throw to the flats and sidelines, but then again that's my opinion!
Also top shelf for the worst color scheme in the history of organized sports.
I'm sure those OPRF teams were powerhouses, but unlike state and city championships which were won on the field, so-called national championships, are mostly voted on by reporters who didn't see them play.
... so only two titles at the highest level with all those Alabama-like recruiting classes
?