Who did the most damage
- Thread starter slickdawg
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Croom at least left us with enough decent talent to not be embarrassed- he just didnt know how to coach it
Polk let a top-tier SEC team fade to the absolute bottom of the SEC. Since 2003- Mississippi leads the SEC in players drafted in the top 10 rounds with 23. State??? We're last with 4. 4 top-notch SEC players since 2003. Ridiculous.
Polk let a top-tier SEC team fade to the absolute bottom of the SEC. Since 2003- Mississippi leads the SEC in players drafted in the top 10 rounds with 23. State??? We're last with 4. 4 top-notch SEC players since 2003. Ridiculous.
Even though we'd had sume success in the 90s, when Crxxm took over our football program was a totally out of control zoo. He didn't do **** while he was here, but he did at least leave us with some players we could build a program with. Polk took over a consistent top-16 program and turned into one of the worst programs in the last 25 years in the SEC.
Was he a bad coach who had no business running an SEC program? Yes. But he didn't steal money from us - Larry Templeton gave it away. For all his faults, I think Croom genuinely was trying his best - he just wasn't remotely good enough. And that lies squarely on the shoulders of LT.
This is a tough call. Although thecommon denominatorhere is Larry Templeton. So I'm gonna go with his sorry ***.
I think they both were clueless in terms of modern college athletics, but at least Croom seemed to be catching on to SOME things- his recruiting subjectively got better his last year. Croom is a good NFL running backs coach. He is simply not a good head coach, and I think his lack of experience in general killed him. He did leave Dan some good players- but he also neglected some areas such as QB.
As far as the money, yes he was incompetent, but incompetent people are fired all the time and they don't have to pay their salary back to their former employer. It's not their fault that their employer should have hired someone better in the first place.
I think Croom had some good ideas about what he wanted us to be, but unfortunately, he also had more extremely bad decisions.
For all of the Maine's, Tulane's, and La Tech's that he had, at least Croom had some pretty good wins for us againt Florida, a couple against Alabama, one against Auburn on the road no less, he beat a good UK team in Lexington in 07, and he won the Egg Bowl a couple of times- including one the 07 win, which was a great Egg Bowl to watch. He also won his lone bowl game for us. If you look at the records, he actually did better than Rockey Felker in my view because he had more big wins and actually took us to a bowl.
Polk on the other hand, I feel like he made us a social experiment for NCAA baseball. Towards the end, Polk did not care whether we won or lost. I think Croom probably at least did that. There were times when Polk was asleep in the dugout- South Carolina 2007. I have heard stories about how Raffo wanted to change the way we recruited players, and Polk refused to change. Would it really have hurt that much for Raffo to go to a Showcase or two, or something like the State Games in Meridian? His vendettas against the NCAA caused him to completely stop recruiting lottery states such as Georgia and Louisiana- look at the roster in 2008 and see how many players are from those states. The fact that he had his camp scheduled the week of the CWS should tell us something.
But the worst thing about Polk was the way he acted. What he was essentially saying to MSU as a fanbase, as a University was "My way is the right way, and you all should accept it because I know more than you about baseball." Now, I don't doubt that Ron Polk knows more about baseball than me. I would probably enjoy talking to him about the game, and I sincerely hope I have that opportunity because I want to learn as much about the game as possible and I enjoy learning new things all the time. But one thing is for damn sure- I don't have to, and I shouldn't accept being non-competitive. Asking MSU baseball's team to win and to do everything to win is not too much to ask as a fan. If this was a church league, special olympics or Upward baseball- if that even exists- I am OK with being non-competitive. But it isn't. I want to go to Regionals, Super Regionals and host them. I want go to Omaha and win it. And as a Jacksonian, I want to go to the Governor's Cup and watch a MSU team that is at least trying to win as opposed to pitching a freshman to get "experience" and treat the game as an exhibition- which was stupid since it counts on the won/loss record.
At least Croom didn't act like "Why the hell did you fire me? You mean 3-9 isn't good enough?" although he does lose points from me for saying that he should have gotten the seven years he was promised. I know most people don't like him, but I wish him well as a running backs coach.
As far as the money, yes he was incompetent, but incompetent people are fired all the time and they don't have to pay their salary back to their former employer. It's not their fault that their employer should have hired someone better in the first place.
I think Croom had some good ideas about what he wanted us to be, but unfortunately, he also had more extremely bad decisions.
For all of the Maine's, Tulane's, and La Tech's that he had, at least Croom had some pretty good wins for us againt Florida, a couple against Alabama, one against Auburn on the road no less, he beat a good UK team in Lexington in 07, and he won the Egg Bowl a couple of times- including one the 07 win, which was a great Egg Bowl to watch. He also won his lone bowl game for us. If you look at the records, he actually did better than Rockey Felker in my view because he had more big wins and actually took us to a bowl.
Polk on the other hand, I feel like he made us a social experiment for NCAA baseball. Towards the end, Polk did not care whether we won or lost. I think Croom probably at least did that. There were times when Polk was asleep in the dugout- South Carolina 2007. I have heard stories about how Raffo wanted to change the way we recruited players, and Polk refused to change. Would it really have hurt that much for Raffo to go to a Showcase or two, or something like the State Games in Meridian? His vendettas against the NCAA caused him to completely stop recruiting lottery states such as Georgia and Louisiana- look at the roster in 2008 and see how many players are from those states. The fact that he had his camp scheduled the week of the CWS should tell us something.
But the worst thing about Polk was the way he acted. What he was essentially saying to MSU as a fanbase, as a University was "My way is the right way, and you all should accept it because I know more than you about baseball." Now, I don't doubt that Ron Polk knows more about baseball than me. I would probably enjoy talking to him about the game, and I sincerely hope I have that opportunity because I want to learn as much about the game as possible and I enjoy learning new things all the time. But one thing is for damn sure- I don't have to, and I shouldn't accept being non-competitive. Asking MSU baseball's team to win and to do everything to win is not too much to ask as a fan. If this was a church league, special olympics or Upward baseball- if that even exists- I am OK with being non-competitive. But it isn't. I want to go to Regionals, Super Regionals and host them. I want go to Omaha and win it. And as a Jacksonian, I want to go to the Governor's Cup and watch a MSU team that is at least trying to win as opposed to pitching a freshman to get "experience" and treat the game as an exhibition- which was stupid since it counts on the won/loss record.
At least Croom didn't act like "Why the hell did you fire me? You mean 3-9 isn't good enough?" although he does lose points from me for saying that he should have gotten the seven years he was promised. I know most people don't like him, but I wish him well as a running backs coach.
Polkscrewed up something that was good, while it could be argued that Croom actually did SOME good with the football program (at least cleaned it up).
muscleshoalssound said:
I will say that Croom put the onus on himself by proclaiming that "we would never be embarassed again" and then he proceeds to sign Jesse Bowman in jail, and there was the Budweiser Car incident, and the fight that Pegues and a few other players got into.
Knock on wood, but right now under Dan our image is the cleanest that I can ever remember. I'm not sure why or what he does differently, or if it's just luck. Not that we haven't had any incidents under Dan, but they've certainly been very minimal.
I do think that Croom maybe cleaned up our image from the head coach standpoint. Jackie had a dirty coach image in the media, and Croom did not. Dan does not have that image either. I'm not sure that having a cleaner image than Jackie is that much of a feat, though. Whether Jackie deserved that image or not.
and focused on winning football games rather than trying to prepare Woody for a HC job he had a shot at being successful. Now before you pull out you weapons and open fire read the quotes from his own mouth about his vision for getting black coaches into headcoaching positions and explain to me how Woody survived.If he had hired (and got his fat *** out of the way) a good OC regardless of colorto go along with EJ he could have possibly gotten something going. His and Woody`s God-awful offense ran EJ off and eventually totally demoralized the program.
Polk was always a strange fellow in some ways andfor him to flame out shouldn`t have been a suprise to anyone ESPECIALLY THE GD ATHLETIC DIRECTOR.
Polk was always a strange fellow in some ways andfor him to flame out shouldn`t have been a suprise to anyone ESPECIALLY THE GD ATHLETIC DIRECTOR.
Croom couldn't assemble a staff or coach or endear himself to fans but he did put together marginal SEC talent. More importantly he is responsible for most of Mullen's first recruiting class. That class has some hosses. And let's face it, aside from a few years we have been an SEC bottom feeder to some degree. He left us in similar stead that he found it.
Polk left zero, zilch, nada. No players on the team except Powers were SEC talent ( and I would argue he was overrated) and one recruit ( Routt) who ended up being far better than anyone expected in his first year. Hell he was #3 starter on his high school team. Polk was blinded by his perceived aura and assumed he could coach anyone.We were annually near the top of the SEC until Polk's sheer arrogance ( and LT's incompetence) put MSU baseball on life support.
Polk. No question.
Polk left zero, zilch, nada. No players on the team except Powers were SEC talent ( and I would argue he was overrated) and one recruit ( Routt) who ended up being far better than anyone expected in his first year. Hell he was #3 starter on his high school team. Polk was blinded by his perceived aura and assumed he could coach anyone.We were annually near the top of the SEC until Polk's sheer arrogance ( and LT's incompetence) put MSU baseball on life support.
Polk. No question.
the impression of our program from a pr standpoint took an almost 180 degree turn. Instead of being the sinners, we were now the saints after the Croom hiring. The old adage is true that perception is reality.
Polk. Cohen is still struggling to get us back to just being 'competitive'... in BASEBALL... at MSU...
Mullen came in, and with basically the same players made an impact. Look at the difference in Dixon for example. Croom was just in over his head, and Mullen had the same players noticably better in very short order. (This reminds me -- how in the F is Croom a running back coach in the NFL??? Blows my mind.)
Mullen came in, and with basically the same players made an impact. Look at the difference in Dixon for example. Croom was just in over his head, and Mullen had the same players noticably better in very short order. (This reminds me -- how in the F is Croom a running back coach in the NFL??? Blows my mind.)
Polk. Without question.
But it didn't start with his second stint. It began around 92-93. His insanity didn't just appear suddenly. It evolved until you have the pathetic person he is today.
But it didn't start with his second stint. It began around 92-93. His insanity didn't just appear suddenly. It evolved until you have the pathetic person he is today.
He had his share of thugs, but in Jackie's last few years, the inmates were running the asylum. We had players completely ignoring their strength and conditioning work, cussing out assistant coaches, walking off the team only to be immediately given their starting job back 4 months later, etc., etc. The program was completely out of control. As much as Crxxm sucked as a coach, he did restore order to the program and left Mullen with a foundation to build on.