who's back on the Collins train?
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did they also have a similar outcome (ypg, 3rd down efficiency, and score) as we have against northwestern, oklahoma state, auburn, and lsu? therein lies your answer. additionally, those guys have the luxury of letting their prior accolades quell any immediate concern...like, say, the fact that chavis had a top 10 total defense LAST YEAR.....and BOTH had a top 10 total defense THE YEAR BEFORE.
this isnt a single-game performance measure (as alluded to earlier in this thread via extensive season breakdowns). i predicted that it would happen and unfortunately, i was right. any bumpkin with a brain can put two and two together, im just curious as to why its taking our fans so long to come around to the realization that collins=wilson. the stats are staring you in the face and have been for a while now.
this isnt a single-game performance measure (as alluded to earlier in this thread via extensive season breakdowns). i predicted that it would happen and unfortunately, i was right. any bumpkin with a brain can put two and two together, im just curious as to why its taking our fans so long to come around to the realization that collins=wilson. the stats are staring you in the face and have been for a while now.
I just told you that over this season, we have a better scoring defense than both of those teams. In the end, is scoring not the one that matters? But, we also have better yards per game than both, more tackles for loss, and others. The stats are staring me in the face, and they show better than both of the teams I just ask you about. We are 2-3 rather than 4-1 because the offense blew it against Auburn and OSU, not the defense.
At some point you have to look around and think...."if I'm so obviously right, why is nobody joining me?". It shouldn't take you long after that to realize that the other 99.9% are not the morons. Just sayin
your missing the point. both of those guys have a proven record of extremely effective defenses. again, both have been in top 10 total defense as recently as two seasons ago. not good or great defenses....ELITE defenses....record setting defenses. they are proven commodities in the coaching world. collins, unfortunately for him, does not have that luxury. as badly as you want to drag battle-tested, respected, and proven coaches into the conversation to make some hollow point, collins was hired to improve the defense. he has not done that, and in fact, its worse than what wilson produced.
if you want to claim that collins is better than two very recent top 10 total defensive coordinators, go ahead and do it. **** or get off the pot, otherwise, their accolades render them irrelevent to what is happening at mississippi state. this could very quickly turn into you being portrayed as you thinking collins > grantham and chavis. i dont think you believe this, so i will move on, unless you want to make this argument your primary defense. my concern is not with either of them...its with the msu defense that is decidedly less effective under collins than it was under wilson.
because the season is unequally weighted to very lower tier teams so far this season, i will remove the alcorn state factor and list an all things being equal ranking
with collins we are 68th in scoring defense (27.8 ppg) osu, troy, auburn, lsu (minus a 56-9 win over alcornn state)...and you can technically add 34 given up in the gator bowl, although 27 is a more realistic number.....sadly, right there with his average.
with wilson we are 36th in scoring defense (24.5 ppg) troy, auburn, usa, kentucky, tennessee, mtsu, bama, aTm, lsu, ark, ole miss, nwr* (minus a 51-7 win over jackson state)
*= a collins gator bowl loss which in which 34 points were surrendered.....27 of which were surrendered by the defense.
link:
http://www.teamrankings.com/college-football/stat/opponent-points-per-game?date=2013-01-07
care to explain that? they both equally remove the cream-puff factor. why did we fire a coach that was widely considered incompetent only to hire a more incompetent replacement?
if you want to claim that collins is better than two very recent top 10 total defensive coordinators, go ahead and do it. **** or get off the pot, otherwise, their accolades render them irrelevent to what is happening at mississippi state. this could very quickly turn into you being portrayed as you thinking collins > grantham and chavis. i dont think you believe this, so i will move on, unless you want to make this argument your primary defense. my concern is not with either of them...its with the msu defense that is decidedly less effective under collins than it was under wilson.
because the season is unequally weighted to very lower tier teams so far this season, i will remove the alcorn state factor and list an all things being equal ranking
with collins we are 68th in scoring defense (27.8 ppg) osu, troy, auburn, lsu (minus a 56-9 win over alcornn state)...and you can technically add 34 given up in the gator bowl, although 27 is a more realistic number.....sadly, right there with his average.
with wilson we are 36th in scoring defense (24.5 ppg) troy, auburn, usa, kentucky, tennessee, mtsu, bama, aTm, lsu, ark, ole miss, nwr* (minus a 51-7 win over jackson state)
*= a collins gator bowl loss which in which 34 points were surrendered.....27 of which were surrendered by the defense.
link:
http://www.teamrankings.com/college-football/stat/opponent-points-per-game?date=2013-01-07
care to explain that? they both equally remove the cream-puff factor. why did we fire a coach that was widely considered incompetent only to hire a more incompetent replacement?
Come on, man, you can't be that dense can you? We have given up over 27 points in ONE game. And it was to the 9th highest scoring offense in the nation. Of course the average is going to be elevated after the game last night. In the 4 games other than last night we averaged 14.75 points a game against us, and you were already clamoring for him to be fired. Take out the Alcorn game and we were averaging 17.3. And as me and many others have said, 59 points does not do justice to the game last night.
And my point about Chavis and Grantham is to show that our coach is having a better season stat wise than these two well respected coordinators and our defense is in the top half of the SEC. Yet you are begging for him to be fired.
And my point about Chavis and Grantham is to show that our coach is having a better season stat wise than these two well respected coordinators and our defense is in the top half of the SEC. Yet you are begging for him to be fired.
collins has coached in 6 games. he is giving up over 26 points in a third of those games....another third of those games, were against cream puff teams and the remaining third he gave up 21 and 24. that are not hallmarks of a good coach no matter how hard you want to push it. we are statistically the worst in-conference defense that lsu has faced since 1997.....thats the worst conference defense they have faced in nearly 2 decades.
lsu usually crushes us. our defense allowed them to redefine what they consider crushing msu. FIFTY NINE POINTS. there is zero excuse for that. they are an sec offense and we are an sec defenses. there is no explaining away 59 points.....almost half of which came in the first half.
we fired chris wilson because he was bad, yet collins is statistically worse. much worse in fact......how can you just continue to avoid that fact and expect me to take you seriously? how am i supposed have a real debate when you wont acknowledge that the prior d coordinator was doing a better job than the current one? you defend a coach that just surrendered 59 points and one that gave up almost 350 yards in a single half? its lunacy. you dont have a leg to stand on. aside from that fact, i havent once called for collins to be fired.....good luck finding it because its doesnt exist. i want improvement not some clown making excuses by covering up one of our worst losses to an in-conference team that we have ever had. i want collins to be more aggressive. are you even reading what i am posting?
you are an somehow inferring that i think he should be fired right now, your comprehension is SERIOUSLY lacking. how me wanting improvement is being misconstrued into me "begging for him to be fired" is beyond rational thought. its something i have simply not said. you apparently think that criticism of a coaches philosophy equates firing that coach. i want the philosophy to change. the only time i have mentioned someone being fired is when i referenced wilson being fired for having better statistics than what collins currently has. im merely pointing out the discrepancy of what is considered acceptable and not acceptable. how can what collins is doing be widely regarded as acceptable when juxtaposed to what wilson did, knowing wilson performance was widely considered unacceptable? those two things cannot coexist. they simply cannot no matter how much you dance around and try to avoid that fact.
how in the hell does giving up 21, 24, 7, and 59 average 17.3? take out the alcorn game and we are averaging almost 28 ppg surrendered (27.75 to be exact). and the rest of our schedule sets up a hell of a lot more like lsu than it does alcorn.
chris wilson also had better statistics in '12 than either chavis and grantham currently have. how did that work out for him? pretty sure he is a subordinate to one. maybe they should hire him as dc because he has proven he can lead a team to a top 40 defense. obviously, im being facetious to make a point. what other coaches do, especially those with elite pedigrees, is totally irrelevant to what mississippi state is doing.
if you respond to anything, please address why collins is doing an acceptible job while wilson (who had better stats in nearly every measuragle paramater) is widley considerd by our fans as incompetent. answer that sir.
lsu usually crushes us. our defense allowed them to redefine what they consider crushing msu. FIFTY NINE POINTS. there is zero excuse for that. they are an sec offense and we are an sec defenses. there is no explaining away 59 points.....almost half of which came in the first half.
we fired chris wilson because he was bad, yet collins is statistically worse. much worse in fact......how can you just continue to avoid that fact and expect me to take you seriously? how am i supposed have a real debate when you wont acknowledge that the prior d coordinator was doing a better job than the current one? you defend a coach that just surrendered 59 points and one that gave up almost 350 yards in a single half? its lunacy. you dont have a leg to stand on. aside from that fact, i havent once called for collins to be fired.....good luck finding it because its doesnt exist. i want improvement not some clown making excuses by covering up one of our worst losses to an in-conference team that we have ever had. i want collins to be more aggressive. are you even reading what i am posting?
you are an somehow inferring that i think he should be fired right now, your comprehension is SERIOUSLY lacking. how me wanting improvement is being misconstrued into me "begging for him to be fired" is beyond rational thought. its something i have simply not said. you apparently think that criticism of a coaches philosophy equates firing that coach. i want the philosophy to change. the only time i have mentioned someone being fired is when i referenced wilson being fired for having better statistics than what collins currently has. im merely pointing out the discrepancy of what is considered acceptable and not acceptable. how can what collins is doing be widely regarded as acceptable when juxtaposed to what wilson did, knowing wilson performance was widely considered unacceptable? those two things cannot coexist. they simply cannot no matter how much you dance around and try to avoid that fact.
how in the hell does giving up 21, 24, 7, and 59 average 17.3? take out the alcorn game and we are averaging almost 28 ppg surrendered (27.75 to be exact). and the rest of our schedule sets up a hell of a lot more like lsu than it does alcorn.
chris wilson also had better statistics in '12 than either chavis and grantham currently have. how did that work out for him? pretty sure he is a subordinate to one. maybe they should hire him as dc because he has proven he can lead a team to a top 40 defense. obviously, im being facetious to make a point. what other coaches do, especially those with elite pedigrees, is totally irrelevant to what mississippi state is doing.
if you respond to anything, please address why collins is doing an acceptible job while wilson (who had better stats in nearly every measuragle paramater) is widley considerd by our fans as incompetent. answer that sir.
i have gotten multiple assurances in other defense related threads that i am not the only one harboring this concern. they are there. i merely took the opportunity to point out that collins is anything but a defensive stud....hence my bump. studs dont give up almost 60 points to ANYONE. period.
why is there such denial among the fanbase? why do people refuse to accept the reality that wilson and collins are the same at-best and at-worst, wilson > collins? why the denial? why the excuses? why is giving up 59 points acceptable? i appreciate you trying to be the peacemaker, but i am not interested in making friends. i am interested in solving, or at least discussing, a serious problem in our defense....a problem that still remains after a major staff change that is resulting in worse numbers than his predecessor.
i wasnt the one starting threads about the defense post lsu. check the history...there is dissension and people are starting to come around to the reality of what our defense is. cw v 2.0. the early adopters, early majority, late majority, and laggards will come around if what we are seeing continues....its just a matter of time until people get fed-up with it. sad part is, if collins would get his head out of his *** and be more aggressive, we could really start to be disruptive defensively. we were mauling that lsu o line when we blitzed....absolutely mauling them. zone with 3rd and 19 the way WE RUN ZONE is NOT acceptable. zone is only effective if you have the coaching and players to execute...unfortunately, we have neither.
why is there such denial among the fanbase? why do people refuse to accept the reality that wilson and collins are the same at-best and at-worst, wilson > collins? why the denial? why the excuses? why is giving up 59 points acceptable? i appreciate you trying to be the peacemaker, but i am not interested in making friends. i am interested in solving, or at least discussing, a serious problem in our defense....a problem that still remains after a major staff change that is resulting in worse numbers than his predecessor.
i wasnt the one starting threads about the defense post lsu. check the history...there is dissension and people are starting to come around to the reality of what our defense is. cw v 2.0. the early adopters, early majority, late majority, and laggards will come around if what we are seeing continues....its just a matter of time until people get fed-up with it. sad part is, if collins would get his head out of his *** and be more aggressive, we could really start to be disruptive defensively. we were mauling that lsu o line when we blitzed....absolutely mauling them. zone with 3rd and 19 the way WE RUN ZONE is NOT acceptable. zone is only effective if you have the coaching and players to execute...unfortunately, we have neither.
Not obsessed. At all. The bad thing is, I don't even remember what I did to hurt your little feelings... I'm sure you can remind me though.
Everyone else -- be sure to let me know when ANYONE -- including Alabama -- even slows down that LSU offense. Because if Mettenberger keeps playing how he is right now, with Beckham and Landry both healthy, NO ONE will slow them down AT ALL. That game didn't tell me much about our defense. It told me a whole helluva lot about LSU's offense though. And even when we had good coverage, those receivers caught everything -- and Mett threw every ball perfectly. When we backed guys out of the box to try to help, they ran it on us pretty well.
That said, I was disappointed in our tackling in the game. Most of the big plays were straight up missed tackles. No excuse. I really fail to see how that is a schematic problem with Collins though -- as has been alleged here.
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someone is trying to use the result vs LSU's offense to prove their point that our D sucks, then they just are t that smart. That's like saying someone that gets knocked out by Mike Tyson, can't take a punch. Anyone that has watched any minute of LSU's any other games this year should not be surprised.
someone is trying to use the result vs LSU's offense to prove their point that our D sucks, then they just are t that smart. That's like saying someone that gets knocked out by Mike Tyson, can't take a punch. Anyone that has watched any minute of LSU's any other games this year should not be surprised.
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