Then they should stay in Thibet where they enjoy peace, harmony, and religious freedom.
Why does it seem that so many libs hate displays of patriotism?
- Thread starter WVPATX
- Start date
True boomer, Muslim fundamentalists also think we are Satan's lair. "The Great Satan" we are called.
Honestly boom the way we carry on with some of our immorality (Abortion, homosexuality, promiscuity, transgenderism, and overall cultural debauchery) I can see why they think that of us.
But they only see our underside. They reject our Liberty, racial equality, respect for Women, Freedom to Worship, and respect for Individual rights.
They may be more "religiously homogeneous" to us, but we have the superior culture and way of Life in my opinion, because of our diversity and our respect as well as our tolerance of it.
Last edited:
I was just illustrating that perspective matters. There are wide ranging perspectives of morality within the Christian faith as well. My perspective has to do with how I view others and my connection to the entirety of life. I've made many decisions to do and not to do based on my conscience (not on my own desires or selfish needs). That conscience was developed through my personal perspective and not through a devotion to any religion. My consciousness was developed through reflection, study, caring, love, and respect of life and energy. It develops still, and I am constantly learning lessons in patience and empathy, that will continue to guide my conscience as that consciousness of the world grows with experience and interaction.
To me, religion sets a motivation for development of consciousness, and a tone for ones conscience. It also however, sets definitive identities to ones consciousness of life that divides the world into categories of righteous and not. This inhibits the development of empathy, and prevents the ability for ones consciousness to expand and for love, compassion, respect and forgiveness to span across certain social divisions. This prevents ones conscience to reach a true connect to others (outside of the religious group). We see this clearly today with many in Islam, many in Christianity as well. Empathy is more important than most give it credit for.
Now....I am conscious of the fact that I'm almost completely full of ****, but my conscience does feel pretty solid. My religion is centered in empathy, caring, respect, and being (trying to at least) a good husband, father, teacher, neighbor, citizen, listener, brother, and friend. I take hikes, kayak, play golf, and travel and appreciate all beyond me that is beautiful. My perspective isn't defined by much more than striving for positivity.
Last edited:
That's all fine boomer (I hate to keep saying this) but you're unique. Different. Most folks don't "make up their consciousness" as they go along. In those cases where they rationalize it, they usually choose to do selfish things against others that are harmful or hurtful and yes even Evil. Nothing restrains them but their own desires.
If we just left objective morality and decency up to what everyone thinks it should be how would (could) any of us demand obedience to ANY set of limiting Laws or objective standards?
You have your level of consciousness, I have mine. We agree to live in harmony until we clash or try to insist on one way being superior to another.
Then how do we settle it? Those Wars you detest suddenly become the objective measure we use to settle our differences. We destroy ourselves in the argument, what's settled?
This is why standards or morality and decency can't be subjective, or subject to our personal desires. There has to be an objective Truth defining the limits so we all recognize when they've been crossed. We agree what those limits are, and respect them for everyone.
I admire your desire to delve deeper into your consciousness to discover greater Truths. Ironically, that is the ultimate search in one's walk with Almighty God. But that consciousness is not self-created as you argue. It is implanted, designed, pre-programmed by your Creator to find it's source.
The Bible says God has left each with a desire to yearn to know Truth...Truth being awareness of your creation and your Creator. (I hesitate to use gender here because it is limiting for terms of this discussion)
It is our most essential quest, and our most fulfilling discovery. It can't be left up to our own definitions because none of us is self created in existence. We are part of a whole, with a single source and a unique purpose, and ability to connect to both.
You don't think your perspective, your consciousness, and your conscience would be completely different had you been born in Palestine? Or to a sexually abusive father? Or in the backs at of a VW bus at a Grateful Dead concert? You are adamant about your designed existence....that's fine....at the very least I admire your passion for your God. But I can't help look at these central driving forces to consciousness. I also can't help but try to understand how aspects of psychology, sociology, and history impact ones consciousness, and then how that consciousness impacts ones conscience.
As I cross paths with others that have different a consciousness of life, I don't imagine war....I look to law and the love of liberty that is America. Something we can all believe in.
I came over tonight to post about this picture (the marathon picture) from today and wish I hadn't so I would have missed this clown (Calcaterra). Looking over his tweets I'm hoping he's fired tomorrow and not for his goofy view on sports and politics as much as telling people to **** off. Really? What a sad little man.NBC Sports Announcer GOES OFF: Calls US Flag and Air Force Flyover “Political” Stunt that Should Be “Kept Out of Sports”
Lead baseball writer for NBC Sports, Craig Calcaterra, tweeted out this attack on the US flag on Easter morning.
“Will you keep politics out of sports, please. We like sports to be politics-free”
Democrats are so full of hate today that the American flag and military men and women in uniform are too “political” for them.
Calcaterra followed up the tweet with this jewel:
“Maybe a flag, in and of itself isn’t always political. A two-acre flag with a military flyover is saying something very specific, however.”
Calcaterra went on – calling the US flag “just a piece of fabric.”
Calcaterra went on – calling the US flag “just a piece of fabric.”
But I'll post the marathon pic again because it says everything to me.
---he even followed up on his twit...---
http://mlb.nbcsports.com/2017/04/16/a-few-words-on-baseball-giant-american-flags-and-patriotism/
A few words on baseball, giant American Flags and patriotism
By Craig Calcaterra Apr 16, 2017, 4:32 PM EDT
This morning I woke up and saw that a friend had posted a photo on my Facebook timeline. It was of the opening ceremonies for the first game at the Braves new ballpark Friday night.
The photo was of the large American flag unfurled on the field for the National Anthem. In case you could not see it, on every one of the large video boards was a digital image of an American flag. It was quite the scene:
We’ve seen sights like this one pretty regularly over the past 16 years. Opening Day, the All-Star Game and the World Series would, by now, be considered incomplete without a couple of acres of red, white and blue on the outfield grass. Or, for Blue Jays game, just red and white.
Baseball and the American flag have obviously long gone hand-in-hand. “The Star Spangled Banner” was first performed at a baseball game years before it was actually our country’s national anthem. Red, white and blue bunting goes back further. Baseball may not really be the national pastime anymore, but its patriotic rituals reach way, way back to a time when it unquestionably was.
As better writers than I have noted, however, the degree and intensity of patriotic display at sporting events has been dramatically ratcheted up since September 11, 2001. The big flags, the addition of “God Bless America” and the incorporation of the military into nearly every aspect of the promotion of the game. The impulse to do so was obvious and understandable, just as other patriotic displays in times of war, peril and tragedy are. The reasons for it make perfect sense and the escalation of conspicuous patriotism at the ballpark is unmistakable.
Something else has happened over this same period, however. Patriotism has been transformed from something most Americans demonstrate out of natural national pride and personal motivation to something more . . . performative. Often, something de rigueur. Unquestionably more political.
We can see it in the silly controversies over who does and who does not wear a little flag on their lapel. Or whether there are or are not the proper number of flags on stage at a political nominating convention. The impulse to characterize one’s political opponents as unpatriotic as a means of advancing one’s own political agenda is undeniable. Casting oneself as more patriotic than the other guy has always been a primary tool in the politician’s toolbox, but it has become a far more important tool in the past 16 years. “If you’re not for us, you’re against us,” is a sentiment that has expanded beyond matters of the literal basic security of our country from its enemies and has become an argument for any old policy one supports or opposes. You can be accused of being in league with ISIS for disagreeing about the ideal rate of taxation for certain brackets.
While people may wish for the ballpark to be a place where the real world does not intrude, sports often reflect what’s going on in society at large. To that end, the world of sports has likewise seen its natural patriotic habits amped up quite a bit. As mentioned above, a lot of that was natural and understandable in the wake of 9/11.
But there has been some opportunism and performative patriotism at play at the ballpark as well. Most notably in the pay-for-patriotism scandal from a couple of years ago in which it was revealed that the government had paid teams to promote patriotic and pro-military initiatives for propaganda and recruitment purposes. Less craven than that but still calculated is the degree to which corporate sponsorship has seeped into patriotic activities. For the 2014 World Series, American flags were provided to every fan at the entrance of Kauffman Stadium. Major League Baseball made sure we knew in the press release, however, that they were “presented by Bank of America, the Official Bank of Major League Baseball.” There are many examples of this sort of thing.
Whether patriotic initiatives and displays are craven or genuine in their conception, they aren’t going anywhere. While conspicuous acts of patriotism have always spiked at the ballpark during times of war — check out the uniform patches worn during World War II — they’ve always subsided after a time. This isn’t happening now. As I’ve mused on this site many times, baseball seems unable or unwilling to cut back on the big flags and the military initiatives even a little bit in the post-9/11 world. I suspect it’s because, in this new age of performative patriotism, they’re worried about being called unpatriotic for doing so. One less big flag on Opening Day or Game 1 of the World Series would be the baseball equivalent of a politician not wearing an American Flag lapel pin. At some point it’s just easier to roll out the flag again than to catch that kind of hell.
Against that backdrop, I looked at the photo my friend posted on my Facebook timeline, and I tweeted out a little joke, poking at those who claim that sports and politics never go together. I did so by sarcastically adopting the voice of one of the many “stick to sports” people we’ve mocked around here many, many times:
View image on Twitter
https://twitter.com/craigcalcaterra
Craig Calcaterra
"Will you keep politics out of sports, please. We like sports to be politics-free"
5:53 AM - 16 Apr 2017
Initially most of my followers and people who saw it realized I was trolling the “stick to sports” people and nodding to the many things I’ve written over the years about the often political nature of patriotic displays.
A few hours later, though, some conservative people who are not familiar with all of the stuff I’ve written about this sort of thing over the years saw it and believed that I was denigrating the American Flag and claiming that the Braves were conducting a political propaganda exercise on Friday night. By mid-morning that began to snowball and since then I’ve been flooded with literally thousands of people calling me a commie, saying my tweet was treasonous and telling me that if I don’t like this country I can get the hell out right now. One person said I should be burned at the stake. Another said I should be hanged. One guy even told me he hopes I get cancer.
I get a lot of crap thrown at me on Twitter and I really don’t care, mostly because I stir up a lot of it myself. It goes with the territory. So I am less bothered by the crap than I am by the literally hundreds of people who, while not wishing cancer upon me, simply responded by telling me that, no, it is impossible for the flag or for a patriotic display to be political. That such things are, always, inherently neutral and benign and simply symbolize one’s love of America, nothing more, nothing less.
Whatever these people think of me, this sentiment is unadulterated nonsense.
As mentioned above, patriotism and flag-waving are a huge part of political strategy and always have been. There are entire ideologies based on it. It is likewise used for other, non-purely-patriotic purposes. Brands routinely wrap themselves in the American flag to sell you stuff. Indeed, there are rankings of which brands best-leverage patriotism for commercial purposes. This occurs in baseball too, of course, as noted in those Bank of America-sponsored flags and countless other bits of for-hire patriotic display. While patriotism is a laudable trait — and while I consider myself to be a patriotic American — to suggest that flag-waving is exclusively done by those with noble and pure intent is simply laughable.
Do I think the Braves were making a political point with their giant flag on Friday night? No, not particularly. At least not anything beyond the efforts made by every baseball team which wishes to make its fans feel like going to the ballpark is not merely a commercial experience but a uniquely American one. Especially on Opening Day. And, well, especially when they just made those fans hand over their tax dollars for a new ballpark the team didn’t really need, so hey, let’s make sure we create the impression that this is about more than the Braves’ bottom line.
But let us not pretend for one second that displays of conspicuous patriotism haven’t spiked dramatically in our country over the past 16 years. Let us not pretend for one second that they persist for all of the same reasons that initially inspired them. Let us not pretend that, over more than a decade and a half of it, many have not learned how effective it is to leverage patriotism to aid their political careers, their images, or their marketability and the marketability of their brands. Patriotism is a feeling and an ideal, and like any other feeling or ideal, it can be twisted to any number of other ends, good, bad or neutral.
Even in baseball.
http://mlb.nbcsports.com/2017/04/16/a-few-words-on-baseball-giant-american-flags-and-patriotism/
A few words on baseball, giant American Flags and patriotism
By Craig Calcaterra Apr 16, 2017, 4:32 PM EDT
This morning I woke up and saw that a friend had posted a photo on my Facebook timeline. It was of the opening ceremonies for the first game at the Braves new ballpark Friday night.
The photo was of the large American flag unfurled on the field for the National Anthem. In case you could not see it, on every one of the large video boards was a digital image of an American flag. It was quite the scene:
We’ve seen sights like this one pretty regularly over the past 16 years. Opening Day, the All-Star Game and the World Series would, by now, be considered incomplete without a couple of acres of red, white and blue on the outfield grass. Or, for Blue Jays game, just red and white.
Baseball and the American flag have obviously long gone hand-in-hand. “The Star Spangled Banner” was first performed at a baseball game years before it was actually our country’s national anthem. Red, white and blue bunting goes back further. Baseball may not really be the national pastime anymore, but its patriotic rituals reach way, way back to a time when it unquestionably was.
As better writers than I have noted, however, the degree and intensity of patriotic display at sporting events has been dramatically ratcheted up since September 11, 2001. The big flags, the addition of “God Bless America” and the incorporation of the military into nearly every aspect of the promotion of the game. The impulse to do so was obvious and understandable, just as other patriotic displays in times of war, peril and tragedy are. The reasons for it make perfect sense and the escalation of conspicuous patriotism at the ballpark is unmistakable.
Something else has happened over this same period, however. Patriotism has been transformed from something most Americans demonstrate out of natural national pride and personal motivation to something more . . . performative. Often, something de rigueur. Unquestionably more political.
We can see it in the silly controversies over who does and who does not wear a little flag on their lapel. Or whether there are or are not the proper number of flags on stage at a political nominating convention. The impulse to characterize one’s political opponents as unpatriotic as a means of advancing one’s own political agenda is undeniable. Casting oneself as more patriotic than the other guy has always been a primary tool in the politician’s toolbox, but it has become a far more important tool in the past 16 years. “If you’re not for us, you’re against us,” is a sentiment that has expanded beyond matters of the literal basic security of our country from its enemies and has become an argument for any old policy one supports or opposes. You can be accused of being in league with ISIS for disagreeing about the ideal rate of taxation for certain brackets.
While people may wish for the ballpark to be a place where the real world does not intrude, sports often reflect what’s going on in society at large. To that end, the world of sports has likewise seen its natural patriotic habits amped up quite a bit. As mentioned above, a lot of that was natural and understandable in the wake of 9/11.
But there has been some opportunism and performative patriotism at play at the ballpark as well. Most notably in the pay-for-patriotism scandal from a couple of years ago in which it was revealed that the government had paid teams to promote patriotic and pro-military initiatives for propaganda and recruitment purposes. Less craven than that but still calculated is the degree to which corporate sponsorship has seeped into patriotic activities. For the 2014 World Series, American flags were provided to every fan at the entrance of Kauffman Stadium. Major League Baseball made sure we knew in the press release, however, that they were “presented by Bank of America, the Official Bank of Major League Baseball.” There are many examples of this sort of thing.
Whether patriotic initiatives and displays are craven or genuine in their conception, they aren’t going anywhere. While conspicuous acts of patriotism have always spiked at the ballpark during times of war — check out the uniform patches worn during World War II — they’ve always subsided after a time. This isn’t happening now. As I’ve mused on this site many times, baseball seems unable or unwilling to cut back on the big flags and the military initiatives even a little bit in the post-9/11 world. I suspect it’s because, in this new age of performative patriotism, they’re worried about being called unpatriotic for doing so. One less big flag on Opening Day or Game 1 of the World Series would be the baseball equivalent of a politician not wearing an American Flag lapel pin. At some point it’s just easier to roll out the flag again than to catch that kind of hell.
Against that backdrop, I looked at the photo my friend posted on my Facebook timeline, and I tweeted out a little joke, poking at those who claim that sports and politics never go together. I did so by sarcastically adopting the voice of one of the many “stick to sports” people we’ve mocked around here many, many times:
View image on Twitter
https://twitter.com/craigcalcaterra
Craig Calcaterra "Will you keep politics out of sports, please. We like sports to be politics-free"
5:53 AM - 16 Apr 2017
Initially most of my followers and people who saw it realized I was trolling the “stick to sports” people and nodding to the many things I’ve written over the years about the often political nature of patriotic displays.
A few hours later, though, some conservative people who are not familiar with all of the stuff I’ve written about this sort of thing over the years saw it and believed that I was denigrating the American Flag and claiming that the Braves were conducting a political propaganda exercise on Friday night. By mid-morning that began to snowball and since then I’ve been flooded with literally thousands of people calling me a commie, saying my tweet was treasonous and telling me that if I don’t like this country I can get the hell out right now. One person said I should be burned at the stake. Another said I should be hanged. One guy even told me he hopes I get cancer.
I get a lot of crap thrown at me on Twitter and I really don’t care, mostly because I stir up a lot of it myself. It goes with the territory. So I am less bothered by the crap than I am by the literally hundreds of people who, while not wishing cancer upon me, simply responded by telling me that, no, it is impossible for the flag or for a patriotic display to be political. That such things are, always, inherently neutral and benign and simply symbolize one’s love of America, nothing more, nothing less.
Whatever these people think of me, this sentiment is unadulterated nonsense.
As mentioned above, patriotism and flag-waving are a huge part of political strategy and always have been. There are entire ideologies based on it. It is likewise used for other, non-purely-patriotic purposes. Brands routinely wrap themselves in the American flag to sell you stuff. Indeed, there are rankings of which brands best-leverage patriotism for commercial purposes. This occurs in baseball too, of course, as noted in those Bank of America-sponsored flags and countless other bits of for-hire patriotic display. While patriotism is a laudable trait — and while I consider myself to be a patriotic American — to suggest that flag-waving is exclusively done by those with noble and pure intent is simply laughable.
Do I think the Braves were making a political point with their giant flag on Friday night? No, not particularly. At least not anything beyond the efforts made by every baseball team which wishes to make its fans feel like going to the ballpark is not merely a commercial experience but a uniquely American one. Especially on Opening Day. And, well, especially when they just made those fans hand over their tax dollars for a new ballpark the team didn’t really need, so hey, let’s make sure we create the impression that this is about more than the Braves’ bottom line.
But let us not pretend for one second that displays of conspicuous patriotism haven’t spiked dramatically in our country over the past 16 years. Let us not pretend for one second that they persist for all of the same reasons that initially inspired them. Let us not pretend that, over more than a decade and a half of it, many have not learned how effective it is to leverage patriotism to aid their political careers, their images, or their marketability and the marketability of their brands. Patriotism is a feeling and an ideal, and like any other feeling or ideal, it can be twisted to any number of other ends, good, bad or neutral.
Even in baseball.
This is where I can't help you boomer. The Bible says the Gospel is to be be preached to all corners of the Earth. God's promise is that no one will be without excuse. Yes, I agree folks are born into horrible situations and many come from the worst upbringings. Yet, everyday we hear testimonies of the saving power and Grace of Almighty God through Christ.
In God's Mercy, no one is left with more than they can bear, nor is anyone left abandonded with no hope. Even in their most desperate situation, the Jews were not abandonded. Neither were Black people, nor anyone else created. It is Almighty God's promise that none should perish, but all would have Life and have it everlasting.
I know you reject all that, but I see it everyday. The Korean people will be saved. The Chinese people will be saved. The Lord is no respecter of persons that some will be forgotten. All are created, and thus all are subject to Mercy and Grace if they so freely choose to accept it.
So I'm confident your worries have already been addressed. We are not alone, left to fend for ourselves or decide on our own where our Salvation lies. It's been pointed out, directed, and prepared for us. All you will be held accountable for boomer, is what YOU did with the information when YOU heard it and had a chance to decide?
Last edited:
I'm comfortable with my life choices.
By your perspective, shouldn't we drop Bibles instead of bombs?
Men choose Evil boomer, and resort to it to settle their differences. We do fight to preserve or defend Liberty and justice but if we dropped Bibles to make folks behave, what's to say people like you would accept them?
Ironically where Bibles are most restricted (Communist countries, Islamic nations), folks yearn to hear the good news in them. Yet here in America where they are freely available to all, many simply choose to ignore them or routinely reject them.
Don't think Almighty God hasn't recognized that and has already adjusted for it?
I almost missed this, but re-reading the thread it suddenly occurred to me that now you're "forcing" your will onto someone else!
Isn't that what you folks on the Left always rail against Op2? So you're opposed to murder "just because", yet you'd put me jail for doing something you don't like "simply because you think it's wrong"? That's your subjective definition correct?
So who appointed you to decide what's murder and what is not? Now you're "imposing" your morality on someone else Op2!
I thought you folks on the Left hated that?
Without an objective moral standard from which to draw your description of murder, you're no better than the Christians you despise for "forcing" their source of morality onto everyone else...or so you folks on the Left always complain about them (us).
You make a stupid troll post about one person's opinion whose politics you claim to know and then try to attribute your unsupported observation onto many others, why do that? I guess it's because you are a troll and have done this stupid sh*t many times before and are seeking attention.NBC Sports Announcer GOES OFF: Calls US Flag and Air Force Flyover “Political” Stunt that Should Be “Kept Out of Sports”
Lead baseball writer for NBC Sports, Craig Calcaterra, tweeted out this attack on the US flag on Easter morning.
“Will you keep politics out of sports, please. We like sports to be politics-free”
Democrats are so full of hate today that the American flag and military men and women in uniform are too “political” for them.
Calcaterra followed up the tweet with this jewel:
“Maybe a flag, in and of itself isn’t always political. A two-acre flag with a military flyover is saying something very specific, however.”
Calcaterra went on – calling the US flag “just a piece of fabric.”
Calcaterra went on – calling the US flag “just a piece of fabric.”
Got news for you ATL....many, many people with Bibles on their nightstands, sitting in those pews every week, and railing about the same horrors as you....do evil, evil things.
But if they accept Christ as their savior and ask his forgiveness in death, they will be permitted into everlasting glory, but if I live my life trying at every challenge to do what my gut tells me is right having not accepted Christ...I will be cast into eternal torture and pain?
Poppycock my brother!
Boomer, I didn't make the rules my friend. I know it's a harsh reality, but it's also an easy fix!
You have the information, what are YOU prepared to do with it?
My suggestion, make your choice, deal with the consequences. Doesn't mean you're a "bad person" just means you chose differently than instructed my friend.
I'll give you a real quick story you can relate to 'cause you're a Dad.
My 21 year old son meets this Chick on the internet, decides to leave home to live with her and her folks before finishing school. After a heart-to-heart talk to him (including my own story of running off with his Mom to WVU against both our Parent's advice) I warn him against the possible dangers and pitfalls if his plan doesn't work out.
Kid makes his own decision. Not wrong...but his decision, packs up and leaves.
Is he a "bad" kid?
No!
Will he be responsible for the consequences of his decision no matter how it works out?
Absolutely Yes.
Same here with your Salvation my Man. I don't condemn you, nor predict doom and gloom for you. You are Free to choose as you wish, but you can't change the rules or avoid the consequences of making a decision against Christ.
He's the one who said "no Man comes to the Father, but through me" That's not atlkvb boomer, that's the living Lord of the Universe.
That's either 100% correct, or 100% dead wrong. You decide.
Hey that's cool boomer. I've told you and I mean it, you've got a good heart but you're not saved by your works because the Bible says we're all sinners...ALL fall short of the glory of Almighty God...there is not one who knows and does good, no, not one (even Christians as you correctly pointed out!)
This is why we need Christ. Only he lived the perfect Life we are incapable of living. He proved it can be done, but he was in God's perfect will.
Most of us (Christians too) are not. Can't be.
Why?
Because we're guilty by our nature of Sin. We sin naturally, it's our natural condition...we can't help it.
We're asked to give that up for Christ, and it's easy when we let him take over our natural impulses, but most of us (even Christians) find that hard to always do. We prefer our own choices to Sin.
That's why we're forgiven, if we ask for it. Christ knows that about us, and places himself as our substitute for the impossibility of us ever living perfect lives.
He did it for us, so we don't have to! The only catch, the only hangup... is we have to believe.
That's it.
We can still fall short, and with forgiveness he's covers our deficit. Do we just keep on going along as we once were after accepting him?
Nooo!!!!!!!
We do at least try to live better lives inspired by his example, but alas we fall short. Cool thing is, our failures are not held against us...as long as we allow Christ to cover them.
Boomer you live a good Life, commendable. I respect that. But neither you, nor me, nor anyone else is ever going to be good enough for Almighty God.
Sorry Man. I'm not excluded from that either. I'm no better than you Dude. I'm a terrible Sinner, with many flaws, unworthy...a heathen really!
But the difference between you and me is I accept Christ's sacrifice for my shortcomings and you don't accept him for yours.
Again that's cool, but those are the conditions we both must operate under, and the consequences we both must deal with.
I'm good with that.
Last edited: