Why I think we should accept our Hoops program as it is currently

[jqh2msu2]

I am one of the "idiot" Stansbury defenders. I want to make a couple of points as to why I believe that Stansbury should not be fired.

First, and I have made this point before, is that I think the fact that he has been very successful in the past should count for something. I don't think that he's comporable to Croom because Croom never did anything. If you likened him to Polk, at least we saw Polk start failing to make post season play and fail against his conference competition.

Second, I think calling Stans the recruiter is ridiculous. In fact, I'd say that the perception of Stansbury as a great recruiter really hurts his coaching credibility. We've had basically no NBA talent come to our school in over a decade, yet we've competed against teams with NBA talent in the SEC.

Third, I want NCAA success as much as the next person, but the fact is that if you compare Stansbury against his peers in the SEC, he's doing what he has to to compete in the SEC. The SEC is terrible. We were winning in the SEC when it was good, and we've won in the SEC when it was bad, but we're still competing in the SEC. I refuse to believe it's a good decision to remove a coach who competes for titles in his conference. Couldn't it be that whatever is driving the entire SEC bball to be terrible is affecting Stansbury as much as it is everyone else?

If we stop making post season play altogether, then I'll agree that we'll probably need to make a change. Until that time, I'm going to chock up the Stansbury hatred to a bunch of malcontents and coaching fatigue. ( people get tired of seeing the same coach after a while)

 

[jqh2msu2]

I am one of the "idiot" Stansbury defenders. I want to make a couple of points as to why I believe that Stansbury should not be fired.

First, and I have made this point before, is that I think the fact that he has been very successful in the past should count for something. I don't think that he's comporable to Croom because Croom never did anything. If you likened him to Polk, at least we saw Polk start failing to make post season play and fail against his conference competition.

Second, I think calling Stans the recruiter is ridiculous. In fact, I'd say that the perception of Stansbury as a great recruiter really hurts his coaching credibility. We've had basically no NBA talent come to our school in over a decade, yet we've competed against teams with NBA talent in the SEC.

Third, I want NCAA success as much as the next person, but the fact is that if you compare Stansbury against his peers in the SEC, he's doing what he has to to compete in the SEC. The SEC is terrible. We were winning in the SEC when it was good, and we've won in the SEC when it was bad, but we're still competing in the SEC. I refuse to believe it's a good decision to remove a coach who competes for titles in his conference. Couldn't it be that whatever is driving the entire SEC bball to be terrible is affecting Stansbury as much as it is everyone else?

If we stop making post season play altogether, then I'll agree that we'll probably need to make a change. Until that time, I'm going to chock up the Stansbury hatred to a bunch of malcontents and coaching fatigue. ( people get tired of seeing the same coach after a while)

 

[jqh2msu2]

I am one of the "idiot" Stansbury defenders. I want to make a couple of points as to why I believe that Stansbury should not be fired.

First, and I have made this point before, is that I think the fact that he has been very successful in the past should count for something. I don't think that he's comporable to Croom because Croom never did anything. If you likened him to Polk, at least we saw Polk start failing to make post season play and fail against his conference competition.

Second, I think calling Stans the recruiter is ridiculous. In fact, I'd say that the perception of Stansbury as a great recruiter really hurts his coaching credibility. We've had basically no NBA talent come to our school in over a decade, yet we've competed against teams with NBA talent in the SEC.

Third, I want NCAA success as much as the next person, but the fact is that if you compare Stansbury against his peers in the SEC, he's doing what he has to to compete in the SEC. The SEC is terrible. We were winning in the SEC when it was good, and we've won in the SEC when it was bad, but we're still competing in the SEC. I refuse to believe it's a good decision to remove a coach who competes for titles in his conference. Couldn't it be that whatever is driving the entire SEC bball to be terrible is affecting Stansbury as much as it is everyone else?

If we stop making post season play altogether, then I'll agree that we'll probably need to make a change. Until that time, I'm going to chock up the Stansbury hatred to a bunch of malcontents and coaching fatigue. ( people get tired of seeing the same coach after a while)

 

[Shmuley]

For you f'n bury defenders that are apparently as adept as he is: "The Recruiter" is a term of derision. It is NOT a compliment. It's a joke.

The rest of this **** post is so facepalm worthy, I can't even begin to deal with it.

 

[jqh2msu2]

I laid out my points, if you can't come up with anything other than "you're stupid" to argue them, then so be it.

 

[Hanmudog]

Go.

 

[TheBigDA]

If so, then Stans isn't the answer. The NCAA has 37 at large bids and the SEC gets 1 automatic bid. If we can't have a top 38 basketball program every year, then we need to close the program.

Why demand Mullen have a top 25 program every year and let Stans get away without having a top 38 program?

 

[Shmuley]

because it devalues his contribution to the program as a "coach."

Have I got that?

Did I sum up your argument there, Corky?

I rest my case.

 

[Coach34]

" If you likened him to Polk, at least we saw Polk start failing to make post season play and fail against his conference competition."

he is 32-57 vs the RPI top 100 the last 5 years- thats losing
Unless we win the SEC Tourney this March, we will only have made 2 NCAA's in the last 6 years- and only got one of those 2 by winning the SEC Tourney
Polk could finish 5th in the West and still make the NCAA's- winning the West in basketball doesnt guarantee you in the NCAA's in basketball


"If we stop making post season play altogether, then I'll agree that we'll probably need to make a change. Until that time, I'm going to chock up the Stansbury hatred to a bunch of malcontents and coaching fatigue. ( people get tired of seeing the same coach after a while)"

Only the bottom 30% of BCS schools dont make postseason- why do State fans insist on a coach killing the program before a change can be made? Why are State fans so scared of change?

 

[HighPointDawg]

I would suggest holding back any attempts to overwhelm anybody on this board and just realize that, thankfully, the 18 loudmouths on SPS don't make decisions at MSU.

 

[jqh2msu2]

I don't think Mullen should be held to having a top 25 program every year. If Mullen goes every season somewhere between 6-6 and 8-4 for the rest of his career, I'd be pleased and accept that. That isn't necessarily a top 25 program. If he's better than 1/2 of the competition, i'd say that's okay. As long as Stansbury is making the NIT or NCAA, I'm happy. So I guess if he's in the top 64 (NCAA) and 32 or whatever NIT is, say top 100, then I'd be okay. I guess technically, that'd require more out of Stansbury than i'd ask out of Mullen as there's about 120 FBS teams and 300+ NCAA bball teams.

 

[RobbieRandolph]

Do everyone a favor and just kill yourself. There's no way your currently are, or will be, gainfully employed with the kind of +!$+!+ up critical thinking skills you have, so get off my tax roll.

 

[Shmuley]

nm

 

[jqh2msu2]

I don't know what the numbers are, but I'd be willing to guess that the SEC vs. the top 100 in RPI over the past 5 years isn't that hot. I'm saying that relative to his competition in the SEC, we're doing about average. The SEC as a whole is really damn bad and I don't know why MSU is expected to stand out. UK I can understand standing out. MSU, not so much.

I guess I just trust Stansbury to succeed because that's what I've seen in the past. I'm not scared of change, but why give up a proven coaching commodity at this point for an up and comer that we don't know anything about. Other than Bruce Pearl, has it done any other SEC school any good in the past 5 years?

 

[jqh2msu2]

As I posted before, I've laid out my points. If you can't argue them with a cogent thought, then I guess you can just lay down a personal insult.

 

[Coach34]

I don't think Mullen should be held to having a top 25 program every year. If Mullen goes every season somewhere between 6-6 and 8-4 for the rest of his career, I'd be pleased and accept that. That isn't necessarily a top 25 program. If he's better than 1/2 of the competition, i'd say that's okay. As long as Stansbury is making the NIT or NCAA, I'm happy. So I guess if he's in the top 64 (NCAA) and 32 or whatever NIT is, say top 100, then I'd be okay. I guess technically, that'd require more out of Stansbury than i'd ask out of Mullen as there's about 120 FBS teams and 300+ NCAA bball teams.

70% of BCS schools make the NCAA or NIT...if we dont make the NCAA's- we are in the bottom 50% of BCS schools.

Comparing our program to Jackson State, Valley, and Alcorn is stupid and insulting

 

[DowntownDawg]

God forbid we risk an annual NIT bid to make a coaching change.

 

[RobbieRandolph]

We've made 2 of the last 4 NCAA tournaments, one of which was a fluke when we got hot in the SEC tourney, and got a quite enviable 13 seed. So yeah, I want to hear more about Stansbury's postseason success, since that was Polk's downfall and all.

 

[jqh2msu2]

I don't think Mullen should be held to having a top 25 program every year. If Mullen goes every season somewhere between 6-6 and 8-4 for the rest of his career, I'd be pleased and accept that. That isn't necessarily a top 25 program. If he's better than 1/2 of the competition, i'd say that's okay. As long as Stansbury is making the NIT or NCAA, I'm happy. So I guess if he's in the top 64 (NCAA) and 32 or whatever NIT is, say top 100, then I'd be okay. I guess technically, that'd require more out of Stansbury than i'd ask out of Mullen as there's about 120 FBS teams and 300+ NCAA bball teams.

70% of BCS schools make the NCAA or NIT...if we dont make the NCAA's- we are in the bottom 50% of BCS schools.

Comparing our program to Jackson State, Valley, and Alcorn is stupid and insulting

I'm okay with being in the bottom 50% of BCS schools occasionally. Not all the time, but occassionally. Especially when the entire SEC is sucking this bad.

 

[jqh2msu2]

It's better than staying at home, and other than UK, UF, and UT which I think have better bball coaches and programs than us, I think we're pretty much on par with the rest of the conference. I'd like to do better, but I think we are probably doing as well as we can at the moment. Again, I'm saying that the entire SEC is down other than a couple of programs. I don't think you can blame that on Stansbury. I think there's some outside factor that I don't know about that's causing that.

 

[mstateglfr]

<span class="post-title">Do you think we should be one of the top 38 teams in the country every year?
</span>If so, then Stans isn't the answer. The NCAA has 37 at large bids and the SEC gets 1 automatic bid. If we can't have a top 38 basketball program every year, then we need to close the program.

Why demand Mullen have a top 25 program every year and let Stans get away without having a top 38 program?

We dont have to be one of the top 38 teams. The SEC auto pick, ACC, Big East, Big 10, Big 12, and Pac10 also will all be within the top 38 and they will be in the tournament too. Almost always add in the CUSA, MWC, and A10 auto pick to this list as well.
There are about 10 each year that are in the top 38 AND automatically going to the tournament.

So you really have to be in the top 50ish to make it.

And that speaks even more to your point.

 

[Coach34]

I don't know what the numbers are, but I'd be willing to guess that the SEC vs. the top 100 in RPI over the past 5 years isn't that hot. I'm saying that relative to his competition in the SEC, we're doing about average. The SEC as a whole is really damn bad and I don't know why MSU is expected to stand out. UK I can understand standing out. MSU, not so much.

I guess I just trust Stansbury to succeed because that's what I've seen in the past. I'm not scared of change, but why give up a proven coaching commodity at this point for an up and comer that we don't know anything about. Other than Bruce Pearl, has it done any other SEC school any good in the past 5 years?

The past is the past. Every coach declines at some point. Not to mention, our past under Stansbury is anything but great. It's solid and consistent- but it aint great.

Other coaching moves?

Georgia's program is getting much better since they changed
SC's looks improved and is certainly no worse than it was
Mississippi's is improved since they changed
LSU's coach has as many SEC titles in 2 years and Stansbury in 12
Arkansas is improving and has signed a top 3 in the nation recruiting class- they are 2 OT losses from being 10-0

a coaching change takes 3-4 years to judge properly.

 

[drunkernhelldawg]

we've got to get above 8-4 at some point. We need to be 11-1 or 12-0 and be in the mix for a championship. Not every season, but we need to shoot for it.

It is ridiculous to say that we have to be top 38 every season or top 25 in football. The teams that can say that can be counted on one hand for each sport. You are right to say that competing is the most basic and necessary quality. When our football team didn't even compete, it made us despondant. The same thing happened with our basketball team in the early 1980's.

As far a basketball goes, we have competed well overall under Stans. But we have lost the close games that would put us on another level. We played great and lost to Duke. We could have won that game. We played a great second half and lost to Memphis. We could have won that game. We lost to Kentucky on a last second tip. We need to win the close games and that goes to the coach in many ways, even though he deserves some credit for gettiing us into position to possibly win. He hasn't been able to seal the deal.

I do not agree that Stans can't coach or draw up plays. I think people put more importance on that stuff than they should. I am nervous about starting fresh with a new coach, because we do have something that is good relative to our conference. But it may be time to try a fresh start. I think the chance of it becoming better than what we've got is 50-50 at best, but after 13 years of increasing mediocrity, we may have no choice than to make the move. You are right about the coaching fatigue thing, but you are wrong to assume that coaching fatigue is not relevant. To me, the coach himself seems to have it some times, and that may be the biggest problem of all.

 

[RobbieRandolph]

You can't attribute Stansbury's lack of success to the rest of the leagues. They are independent. We can excel in spite of a down conference, and in fact SHOULD be excelling if the SEC is down. It's like you just made my point for me.

 

[JohnDawg]

You have to be a woman. There's no way a man could post something like this.</p>

 

[RobbieRandolph]

.

 

[HippyDawg]

Because it is obvious you are not in a leadership position at your work or do not run your own business. If you owned a business and hired a CEO or manager would you accept the BS you are spewing here? Would you accept performance from and have expectations of your manager that placed your company in the bottom half of your field? If so then LOSER is the only appropriate label I can give.

 

[Beretta.sixpack]

I am one of the "idiot" Stansbury defenders. I want to make a couple of points as to why I believe that Stansbury should not be fired.

First, and I have made this point before, is that I think the fact that he has been very successful in the past should count for something. I don't think that he's comporable to Croom because Croom never did anything. If you likened him to Polk, at least we saw Polk start failing to make post season play and fail against his conference competition.

Second, I think calling Stans the recruiter is ridiculous. In fact, I'd say that the perception of Stansbury as a great recruiter really hurts his coaching credibility. We've had basically no NBA talent come to our school in over a decade, yet we've competed against teams with NBA talent in the SEC.

Third, I want NCAA success as much as the next person, but the fact is that if you compare Stansbury against his peers in the SEC, he's doing what he has to to compete in the SEC. The SEC is terrible. We were winning in the SEC when it was good, and we've won in the SEC when it was bad, but we're still competing in the SEC. I refuse to believe it's a good decision to remove a coach who competes for titles in his conference. Couldn't it be that whatever is driving the entire SEC bball to be terrible is affecting Stansbury as much as it is everyone else?

If we stop making post season play altogether, then I'll agree that we'll probably need to make a change. Until that time, I'm going to chock up the Stansbury hatred to a bunch of malcontents and coaching fatigue. ( people get tired of seeing the same coach after a while)

"he has won in the past and that should count for something" uh huh, and you see how that worked out with jackie and polk......these guys make a ton of money, dont forget that....and when you start a downward spiral over the course of a few years, you cannot say, "hey he won for us in the past, we should keep him around"......that doesnt cut it my friend.....they are paid to do a job, and do it effectively, and if you dont perform to standards of your pay grade, you must move on......the days of loyalty, 28 years with one job, pensions, that is all over......

and define "post season".........NIT doesnt count as post season IMO.....NCAA tourney appearances do.....

please, this is old school MSU mentality, and we are in a state of losing this mentality and which is why we got rid of jackie, croom, LT and Polk.....

winning for us in the past allows for him to leave on good terms, and he can go write articles for bulldawg junction, they need a good basketball beat writer anyway...

thanks stans for years of hard work.....its time to move on.....

 

[Dental Dawg]

He can not develope or coach the players he has. The best player to come through the program in years was Lawrence Roberts and he was developed at Baylor before transferring.

 

[TheBigDA]

we've got to get above 8-4 at some point. We need to be 11-1 or 12-0 and be in the mix for a championship. Not every season, but we need to shoot for it.

It is ridiculous to say that we have to be top 38 every season or top 25 in football. The teams that can say that can be counted on one hand for each sport. You are right to say that competing is the most basic and necessary quality. When our football team didn't even compete, it made us despondant. The same thing happened with our basketball team in the early 1980's.

As far a basketball goes, we have competed well overall under Stans. But we have lost the close games that would put us on another level. We played great and lost to Duke. We could have won that game. We played a great second half and lost to Memphis. We could have won that game. We lost to Kentucky on a last second tip. We need to win the close games and that goes to the coach in many ways, even though he deserves some credit for gettiing us into position to possibly win. He hasn't been able to seal the deal.

<font size="4">I do not agree that Stans can't coach or draw up plays. I think people put more importance on that stuff than they should.</font> I am nervous about starting fresh with a new coach, because we do have something that is good relative to our conference. But it may be time to try a fresh start. I think the chance of it becoming better than what we've got is 50-50 at best, but after 13 years of increasing mediocrity, we may have no choice than to make the move. You are right about the coaching fatigue thing, but you are wrong to assume that coaching fatigue is not relevant. To me, the coach himself seems to have it some times, and that may be the biggest problem of all.

What is the purpose of a coach if not to coach and draw up plays?

 

[Hanmudog]

Combined NCAA trips of Horn, Pelphrey, Fox, Johnson, and Kennedy at the respective SEC schools = 2 (and those were in the first years of Johnson and Pelphrey with someone else's players)

Stansbury sucks and we can do betterbut these guys are poor comparisons.

 

[jqh2msu2]

I've done a pretty good job seperating my personal life from my expectations for MSU. I guess from the strong reaction by you and others on here, that isn't the case for everyone though. Good luck in tying your self worth to MSU. It's gonna be a pretty ****** life.

 

[jqh2msu2]

I would put memphis in the pantheon of elite programs that do well every year or should do well no matter what. Schools like NC, Duke, UK, Kansas, Memphis, should all fall under that category no matter how their conference is doing. I don't put MSU in that list.

 

[TheBigDA]

I've done a pretty good job seperating my personal life from my expectations for MSU. I guess from the strong reaction by you and others on here, that isn't the case for everyone though. Good luck in tying your self worth to MSU. It's gonna be a pretty ****** life.

Again this is the mentality that has always held our school and fanbase back. We suck, we've always sucked, and we will always suck. If Dan Mullen has taught you anythingis should be that we can win, we should win, and we should expect to win. This loser mentality has killed us for too long. If that is how you feel then, become a fan of another team. This is the NEW TRUEMAROON and we 17in don't need ya.

 

[TheBigDA]

<span><embed height="355" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="425" src="http://www.youtube.com/v/a-pIwA-E-UY?f=videos&app=youtube_gdata" wmode="transparent" allowScriptAccess="never" ></embed> </span><span><span id="temp-1"></span></span>

 

[BehrDawg]

</p>

 

[Shmuley]

nm

 

[Requiem For A Dawg]

People like you make me want to jump off the Hump.

 

[Shmuley]

nm

 

[hatfieldms]

....