Why I think we should accept our Hoops program as it is currently

[Uncle Leo]

I'm saying that relative to his competition in the SEC, we're doing about average.

The SEC as a whole is really damn bad...

So... We're right down the middle in a terrible conference, and you're quite pleased with that. Got it.

I guess I just trust Stansbury to succeed...

That's because you're definition of "succeed" is so far below what any reasonable person would call success. You've said yourself that you're OK when we're average in a terrible conference.

You are accepting mediocrity. You need to get out of the way and take all your friends with you. Your attitude is what kept MSU down for years, and we'll never truly succeed with people like you holding us down.

 

[Coach34]

Combined NCAA trips of Horn, Pelphrey, Fox, Johnson, and Kennedy at the respective SEC schools = 2 (and those were in the first years of Johnson and Pelphrey with someone else's players)

Stansbury sucks and we can do betterbut these guys are poor comparisons.

thats 2 more than Stansbury had his first 3 years at State

You cant do alot of quick fixing in basketball because most of the signing class is already signed before the new coach gets the job.

You act like all these guys have been at their schools 5-6 years...Kennedy is the only one that has had enough time to judge- and he has their program competing for West titles just like we are. Does he need to take the next step or get out of the way? Absolutely. But he has improved their program from where it was. Kennedy coaches at the SEC's worst basketball school. People bring up our basketball history when defending Stansbury- try looking up their basketball history sometime

 

[whatever.sixpack]

Save your breath, you can't even rationally discuss basketball here anymore.<div>
</div><div>No one stops and thinks as to why the SEC isn't very good. Maybe b/c it's a lot easier to be good in basketball for a small school and we're competing against about 100-150 more schools that have an opportunity to be good? Pearl and Donovan are considered possibly the top 2 coaches in the league and top 15 in the nation and they've already lost to Jacksonville, UCF, Oakland, Charlotte, and a 7-5 USC team already, in years where they were supposed to be really good. Why? Because it's 10x easier to pull an upset for a small school in basketball since you don't have to have as many players. You can find 2-3 players and be a good basketball team, but you have to have 50 to be good in football, and b/c of that, there are a lot more good basketball players to go around, and everyone gets their share. Expecting our basketball program to consistently be top 60 is like expecting us to have a year like this year in football every year.</div><div>
</div><div>And as average as we've been in basketball the last 5 years, it's been overwhelmingly our best sport at MSU. Most people are aware of the struggles of the other big two sports, but does anyone know how bad we've been in sports such as men's and women's tennis and golf, soccer, volleyball, softball, and women's basketball(before last year) Check out where we finish in the Directors Cup(114th in 09, 100th in 08, and 109th in 07) and compare our men's basketball finish.</div><div>
</div><div>Last years records in other sports</div><div>Men's Tennis 10-12 (2-8)</div><div>Women's Tennis 9-13 (1-10)</div><div>Softball 26-29 (7-20)</div><div>Volleyball 11-20 (3-17)</div><div>Soccer 8-12 (1-10)</div><div>Men's Golf (11th in SEC championships)</div><div>Women's Golf (12th in SEC)</div><div>Track (7th in SEC championships)</div><div>Women's Basketball 21-13 (9-7)</div><div>
</div><div>Before you say you don't care what we're doing, consider that this may be a glimpse into what an AD looks at, or how hard it might be to win at MSU in general.</div><div>
</div><div>I'm not saying that we shouldn't expect to win or keep improving, but just showing some perspective from what the AD sees that you don't pay attention to. Looking at the last 5 years in basketball takes into account Stans worst 2 years here since his first couple, which is the reason you'll always see C34 use those years when trying to make a biased point. He's already saying that if we miss this year's tourney it'll be 2 of the last 6, but he's not using the 6th year now b/c it would've been 3 of the last 6. Actually, we could miss the tourney the next two years and still have made 2 of the last 5. We're a missed call (not a judgment call either, basically it's a call that really should be reviewable like crossing the plane in fb) from making 3 in a row, whether we had to win the SECT to get there or not doesn't matter. </div>

 

[Hanmudog]

Combined NCAA trips of Horn, Pelphrey, Fox, Johnson, and Kennedy at the respective SEC schools = 2 (and those were in the first years of Johnson and Pelphrey with someone else's players)

Stansbury sucks and we can do betterbut these guys are poor comparisons.

thats 2 more than Stansbury had his first 3 years at State

You cant do alot of quick fixing in basketball because most of the signing class is already signed before the new coach gets the job.

You act like all these guys have been at their schools 5-6 years...Kennedy is the only one that has had enough time to judge- and he has their program competing for West titles just like we are. Does he need to take the next step or get out of the way? Absolutely. But he has improved their program from where it was. Kennedy coaches at the SEC's worst basketball school. People bring up our basketball history when defending Stansbury- try looking up their basketball history sometime

Ok. Tell me about Arkansas' basketball history. Pelphrey blows.

But seriously, I get what you are saying but these guys still have not proved anything yet. I like Kennedy and of that bunch you listed I would probably take him before any of the others. It is too early to judge Fox. Trent Johnson is working on year 3 and this year is going to be as bad or worse than last year at LSU.Horn has had some talent (ie Downey) but also plays in a tough division so he is hard to judge, however, he has not been exactly impressive thus far.

 

[rem101]

What a 17ing *****.

"The SEC is down so its ok if we suck too." What the 17 does that even mean? If everyone else sucks, we should be kicking their ***. Instead, we are sucking worse than them. And give me a 17ing break that you are ok with the NIT. Jesus.

 

[Coach34]

you judge Pelphrey. Their mess he has had to deal with has been worse than ours. If he falls on his face in SEC play this year, then I'll agree with you.

 

[tenureplan]

Opie's team has been every bit as talented as ours over the past few years.

 

[squirldawg]

I am pretty sure that on average 6 teams from the SEC do not make the NCAA or NIT Tournaments.

 

[Coach34]

2008- inherited talent with problems- made NCAA
2009- lost all 5 starters and inherited most of a recruiting class from Heath- team made up mostly of Freshmen (2006 ring a bell for you?)
2010- lost one starter for season to injury, lost PG to suspension for 42% of season, other suspensions...should have been better- but we see how much losing your PG to start the season hurts

He's had turmoil and crap to clean up since he arrived. He needs to have a quality season this year and is off to a good start. If he wins 20+ and makes the Tourney, no way you can say he sucks or isnt doing a good job of straightening out their program. Our program has been better than UPig's for 15 years now, thats not Pelphrey's fault.

 

[Coach34]

I am pretty sure that on average 6 teams from the SEC do not make the NCAA or NIT Tournaments.

BCS schools average 48 of 69 teams making the 2 Tourneys the last 5 years- 69.5%

SEC numbers:

2010...NCAA-4, NIT-2- 6
2009...NCAA-3 NIT- 4- 7
2008...NCAA-6 NIT-2- 8
2007...NCAA-5 NIT-4- 9
2006...NCAA-6 NIT-2- 8

6 is the least amount of teams the SEC has had making both Tourneys

 

[Berserker.sixpack]

Go away!

What you said is a repeat we've heard from the BURY sheep! Go away"

 

[57stratdawg]

I am pretty sure that on average 6 teams from the SEC do not make the NCAA or NIT Tournaments.

BCS schools average 48 of 69 teams making the 2 Tourneys the last 5 years- 69.5%

SEC numbers:

2010...NCAA-4, NIT-2- 6
2009...NCAA-3 NIT- 4- 7
2008...NCAA-6 NIT-2- 8
2007...NCAA-5 NIT-4- 9
2006...NCAA-6 NIT-2- 8

6 is the least amount of teams the SEC has had making both Tourneys

I dont disagree with you that we underachieve and I think we should make the NCAA routinely - without having to win the SEC Tournament.

However, only looking at "BCS Conference" teams in basketball is a flawed logic. There are 300+ teams in college basketball, so singling out just the BCS conferences is a bad way of looking at things. There are 50 programs that aren't in "BCS Conference" in football, but are legitimate threats in basketball (Memphis, Butler, San Diego State (#7 right now), Georgetown, Villinova, UNLV, Gonzaga, St Mary's, St. John's, whoever else).

When you talk about BCS conference teams making the NCAA tournament, you leave out a SHITLOAD of schools that MSU competes against for a tournament birth (see the list above). Ask yourself this, how many times have you heard Digger, Dickie V, or Doug Gottlibe say something about the BCS schools in college basketball - never.

Again, I agree we should be better and underachieve.

 

[Hanmudog]

2008- inherited talent with problems- made NCAA
2009- lost all 5 starters and inherited most of a recruiting class from Heath- team made up mostly of Freshmen (2006 ring a bell for you?)
2010- lost one starter for season to injury, lost PG to suspension for 42% of season, other suspensions...should have been better- but we see how much losing your PG to start the season hurts

He's had turmoil and crap to clean up since he arrived. He needs to have a quality season this year and is off to a good start. If he wins 20+ and makes the Tourney, no way you can say he sucks or isnt doing a good job of straightening out their program. Our program has been better than UPig's for 15 years now, thats not Pelphrey's fault.

********.

Pelphrey is 18-30 in the SEC since taking over one of the schools with the most money, the most tradition, and the most fan support in the SEC. He has two 14 total win seasons in his three years there despite playing in one of the worst conferences in America. He took over a program coming off an NCAA bid and has not done anything with it despite having some damn good talent. Hell even Sonny Weems is playing for the Toronto Raptors. He has not "straightened" anything out either. Fortson was a head case and didn't they have a little rape issue last year too with some players involved?

You may have points about alot of things but you won't find many that agree with you on this one.

.

 

[Coach34]

last time I checked, they were in the Big East

I use BCS because those 6 conferences get 48% of the bids each year on average- throw in the A-10 and MWC and you probably have 60-63% of the entire field from only 27% of its teams

 

[Coach34]

did he not have to replace 5 starters in 2009? Yes or no?
Did he not have 2 of his 5 starters last season for almost half the season? Yes or no?

Now he needs to produce and all the ******** needs to be over. But Heath was fired for a reason- dont act like he took over Kentucky. We have been a better program than UPig the last 15 years. Thats a fact. What they did in the 1970's and 1980's dont matter today. Since 1996, their program has been average at best

 

[Hanmudog]

did he not have to replace 5 starters in 2009? Yes or no?
Did he not have 2 of his 5 starters last season for almost half the season? Yes or no?

Now he needs to produce and all the ******** needs to be over. But Heath was fired for a reason- dont act like he took over Kentucky. We have been a better program than UPig the last 15 years. Thats a fact. What they did in the 1970's and 1980's dont matter today. Since 1996, their program has been average at best

Is he not 18-30 in the horrible SEC?
Did he not have to suspend 5 players for an alledged rape last year?
Has he not won only 28 total games the last two years, including only 9 total SEC games?

There are no excuses for having two14 win seasons in the SEC West. None. We have lost a **** ton of players over the years through transfers and suspensions and we have not seen that level of suck and hopefully never will regardless of who our coach is.

 

[8dog]

Arkansas hoops is to an extent like MSU baseball. It can't get away with name and nice facilities/fanbase/environment. Playing at Arkansas used to be a big deal. Its not anymore. Hell, they had to hire John Pelfrey.

That job is not like the upper tier jobs that can get by on name.

 

[Thick]

don't have a probelm with regarding the state of our program. Your HC has proven that he can lose to well coached teams minus the studs, and he can lose to teams that we should beat by at least 10 with out 2 starters, or hell, even with all the starters, it doesn't matter. He cannot coach, he cannot discipline, he cannot/will not allow his bench coaches to coach (straight from Stan Jones' mouth), he cannot control his team during the off season, and none of his players respect him because of it (per Powers). So yes, it's time for a change, he's been here going on 13 yrs. as a head coach, and you believe that Florida, UK, and UT are better programs and we are on everyone else's level, it's ok. Got news for you, Vandy is better than us too, with Arky, UGA, and OM heading in the right direction.

I personally don't care about our current signing class, because RS will find a way to 17 it up as usual. He could take over the Celtics right now, and in less then a month, sink that ship too. We are going 4-12, 5-11 in the conference this year, book it!

 

[Coach34]

Regardless if he takes them to the NCAA's this season and maybe even better with his recruiting class coming in- he is forever ******?

 

[Hanmudog]

Regardless if he takes them to the NCAA's this season and maybe even better with his recruiting class coming in- he is forever ******?

I am going based off what he has done to date...which is nothing. If he makes the NCAAT and his recruiting class actually turns out to be good when they get on the court then I will change my opinion.
I will say this, if we hire a new coach who only wins 14 games in his third season then no one will be screaming for his head more than me. I don't believe in these damn 4 year plans for SEC basketball especially at places like Arkansas, LSU, Alabama,and Mississippi State.

 

[BehrDawg]

nm

 

[ChillbillyRock]

It's better than staying at home, and other than UK, UF, and UT which I think have better bball coaches  and programs than us, I think we're pretty much on par with the rest of the conference.  I'd like to do better, but I think we are probably doing as well as we can at the moment.

Do u realize what u are saying, u dumb ~17~!?!?!