Why is everyone pissed at Mullen about special teams last night?

[Coach34]

A. a 6th year Sr should know damn well to get a bigger piece of the outside man on a FG. I repeat- a SIXTH year Sr. I can assure you he was coached to do so.

B. Skinner got hit on a bounce while he was trying to block...that is bad luck. Our team has a call for when the ball hits near them. He must not have heard it

C. It was a blowout- give your younger players like Tubby a chance to make a play on a KO return. Tubby is someone we have to count on next season- he has to get some time. Hopefully he will work out his issues with ball security.


Some of our best players made these mistakes. At some point it becomes a talent issue

 

[InaccuratePredictionsDawg]

What do you mean "last night?"...

...Everytime we kick off to somebody, they are an instant threat to go 100 yds. That's been happening all season. Auburn, then UT. But the odds will finally catch up, & a returned kick-off will cost us a game. This is a Mullen coaching weakspot. He needs to e-mail or call some kick-off return specialists & ask them what to do. Since it's clear he alone has no idea what to do.

 

[FlotownDawg]

Coach, sometimes you make good points and its obvious you know football

but sometimes you just act like a troll. This is one of those times. You know good and well that special teams has been a huge weakness ever since Mullen has been the head coach. We have routinely given up huge returns not just this year, but every year. We are currently last in the SEC in kickoff return yardage given up including two 100-yard KO return touchdowns. That is inexcusable. We also hardly ever break a long kickoff return of our own, and seem to always start around our own 20-25 yard line, meaning we have to routinely drive the length of the field. Our FG kicking has been average, and this year with an erratic true freshman kicker, is pretty poor. We have hit less than 60% of our field goals, which could come back to kill us in these last four tough games. At least we have a good punter. Mullen is probably to arrogant to remove himself from special teams coach, but he really needs to.

 

[Negative Waves]

Why wasn't Bama flagged on the Skinner screw up punt? The Bama defender deliberately held back our punt returner after he called a fair catch and as he was running towards the ball to catch it. That should have been an interference call. It wouldn't have changed the outcome of the game, but I thought it was a blatant non-call by the refs.

 

[karlchilders.sixpack]

ST has been an onging problem

it did not just start.
My biggest problem with ST has been kickoff return yardage, theirs, and ours.

Last night was terrible, let's see, a TD by Tn. that kept them close...on and on .

That is why people are bitching about ST.

 

[57stratdawg]

In SEC Games only we're: Last in kick off coverage, last in FG % made (.500), middle of the roan in kickoff and punt return yards.

I agree, the ball bouncing and hitting Skinner is bad luck, but that doesn't mean our special teams have been great this year.

 

[patdog]

I agree about the non-call. When the play was live I almost jumped out of my chair calling interference even before the ball hit Skinner.

Disagree with Coach about the special teams. It's not just last night. Our special teams have sucked *** ever since Mullen got here. He's done a hell of a job for us, but special teams have been just downright embarrassing.

 

[Coach34]

but sometimes you just act like a troll. This is one of those times. You know good and well that special teams has been a huge weakness ever since Mullen has been the head coach. We have routinely given up huge returns not just this year, but every year. We are currently last in the SEC in kickoff return yardage given up including two 100-yard KO return touchdowns. That is inexcusable. We also hardly ever break a long kickoff return of our own, and seem to always start around our own 20-25 yard line, meaning we have to routinely drive the length of the field. Our FG kicking has been average, and this year with an erratic true freshman kicker, is pretty poor. We have hit less than 60% of our field goals, which could come back to kill us in these last four tough games. At least we have a good punter. Mullen is probably to arrogant to remove himself from special teams coach, but he really needs to.

So let's see if I understand this correctly:

We have a pretty good punter- and are pretty good at punt coverage

We have a kicker that is a true freshman, and doesnt kick the ball high or into the end zone- and teams return the ball against us. So Mullen sux as a special teams coach.

I'll bet when Bell gets a year older and is kicking the ball deeper and higher, our KO coverage gets alot better. We havent had a kicker with a strong leg yet under Mullen- that's why we struggle on KO coverage

 

[FlotownDawg]

Hell yes Mullen sucks as a special teams coach

I'll bet when Bell gets a year older and is kicking the ball deeper and higher, our KO coverage gets alot better. We havent had a kicker with a strong leg yet under Mullen- that's why we struggle on KO coverage[/QUOTE]

This quote is ********. The reason we constantly struggle on kickoff coverage is because Mullen either doesn't have the knowledge or the time to coach it properly. Alabama's kicker didn't kick into the end zone any last night, but we only got it past the 25-yard line once and that was when Tubby fumbled. Meanwhile, we consistently give up huge returns. And it has happened for four years. Remember Auburn last year? They started 3 possessions at about midfield thanks to big KO returns and scored TDs on every one of them. It's an ongoing problem and needs to be fixed before it ends up costing us any more games.

 

[patdog]

In year 4, who's fault is it that we STILL don't have a kicker worth a ****? Why can't Mullen show ANY improvement in special teams (punts and covering punts excepted) in 4 years? Is it that much harder than every other phase of the game where we've shown a lot of improvement? Mullen's a great coach and we're lucky to have him. But he does not need to be coaching our special teams.

 

[CadaverDawg]

Coach, kicking it short doesn't excuse the missed tackles and terrible coverage overall. Mullen is a great coach, we know, but let's not kid ourselves when it comes to our kickoff coverage and return teams.

Just curious, but does anyone know how many kickoffs we've run back for TD's since Mullen arrived? What about how many we've given up for TD's? I'd be curious to see those numbers.

 

[Coach34]

I'll bet when Bell gets a year older and is kicking the ball deeper and higher, our KO coverage gets alot better. We havent had a kicker with a strong leg yet under Mullen- that's why we struggle on KO coverage

This quote is ********. The reason we constantly struggle on kickoff coverage is because Mullen either doesn't have the knowledge or the time to coach it properly. [/QUOTE]


So Mullen sux huh? Welllllll, let's look at some numbers......

KO returns? State is 5th in the SEC out of 14 teams- upper half of the conference
Net Punting? State is 5th in the SEC out of 14 teams- upper half of the conference
Punt returns? State is 8th in the SEC- top of the bottom half

Now make sure and read this closely:

going into the Bammer game- On seven attempted returns, opponents have totaled (-4) yards with a long return of three yards. As a team, Mississippi
State ranks first nationally in return yards allowed and are the
only team to have allowed less than zero return yards.

So Mullen is a ******* genius at coaching punt coverage- but an idiot at KO coverage? Or maybeeee, just maybeeee- the one kicking the ball is the one that makes the most difference...

 

[FlotownDawg]

Yes, it helps that we have a Ray Guy semifinalist punting

but that's the only reason we have good punt coverage. Swedenburg punts it so high that the returner has no choice but to call a fair catch. But seeing that we don't have a Lou Groza semifinalist kicking the ball, we need to compensate by teaching the coverage team to stay in their lanes and good tackling. If the only way Mullen can coach special teams well is to have a kicker or punter be a semifinalist for a national award, then he needs to give up control of that unit. It's not getting any better.

 

[DAWG61]

Bell can kick it out of the endzone any time he wants we've been told. He doesn't because he's instructed not to. That falls on Mullen. Swedenburg is the reason we are great on punts not Mullen. Mullen is the reason we suck on kickoffs not Bell.

 

[Todd4State]

It's not just about performace

But it's also about the fact that Dan would likely be more efficient as a head coach if he would just focus on that.

The stats may very well show that we are in the top half in many special teams categories- but we have a lot of room for improvement. Like you said- we make little mistakes and those a lot of times turn into big mistakes. Since we don't have the depth that most upper level SEC teams have and while we are good, I wouldn't say that we are just vastly superior to the mid-level SEC teams like Tennessee- we can not afford to be bad in special teams.

Special teams killed us last night, they kept UT in the game, and they let Auburn have a lead for a brief amount of time.

So, my question is- are those little mistakes happening because Dan can't spend enough time working on special teams, and would it be better to let Sallach or Brewster handle special teams? I think the answer is yes, let's let Sallach or whomever coach special teams for a year and see what happens.

If we cut out our special teams mistakes- who knows what happens? We are definitely talking about a moral victory over Alabama and we would have a blow out win over UT at this point in time and maybe more national respect.

 

[esplanade91]

Ole Miss has two first year starters who are pretty solid all around. Mullen is a bad special teams coach, period.

Remember when Heath went from like #1 in the country in net to averaging 30 yards a punt? It's because Mullen made him over work himself in practice so much that his leg was about to fall off. He didn't complain because Mullen apparently got pissed and punished them even more.

I'm no college coach but even I know that kickers and punters don't do weight training, only inclined running, but for some reason Mullen applies his strength training philosophy to them, about the only place where a team can hurt from it.

He admits that he should "fire the coach" 2 or 3 times EVERY season. He obviously knows there's a problem but hasn't done anything. I love Mullen, but he's a bad staffer. Torbush for example. Mirando for another.

 

[Coach34]

Bell can kick it out of the endzone any time he wants we've been told. He doesn't because he's instructed not to. That falls on Mullen. Swedenburg is the reason we are great on punts not Mullen. Mullen is the reason we suck on kickoffs not Bell.

And you know this to be fact how?

 

[DerHntr]

Wow. I didn't realize that special teams was so easy to coach. We just tell our guys to do nothing and hope the kicker is badass.

Coach you make some good posts during football. This is not one of those times. Why not be objective about Mullen? It isn't that hard.

 

[DAWG61]

Just repeating what's been posted on here several times. Bell has plenty of leg to boom no returns all day long. He doesn't because well you be the judge why not.

 

[Sutterkane]

We've been too busy trying to get depth at every position. We have what, like 3-4 kickers? Not like we haven't tried to get any.

 

[Lee Corso]

I was also curious. Here's what I found from the Media Guides.


2012
KO 0 for
KO 2 against (Auburn, McCalebb - 100 yards ; Tennessee, Patterson - 98 yards)

2011
KO 0 for
KO 0 against

2010
KO 1 for (Leon Berry against Alcorn - 97 yards)
KO 0 against

2009
KO 1 for (Leon Berry against Georgia Tech, 89 yards)
KO 0 against

The last time an opponent returned a Kickoff for a TD: (2006, Darrin McFadden - 92 yards, Arkansas)
The last time an opponent returned a Punt for a TD: (2009, Chad Jones - 93 yards, LSU)
The last time MSU returned a Punt for a TD: (2011, Johnthan Banks - 65 yards, UT Martin)

 

[Irondawg]

ST has been quite confusing during the Mullen era

His first year we saw vast improvements in KO and punt return yardage with Bumphis and Berry back there. For some unknown reason Bumphis completely lost his effectiveness over the next few years and lost his duties there.

He steadfastly keeps Perk back there and my eyes tell me over many games that he's just not electric there. Slay was all-american JUCO returner and hasn't had a sniff there. Both RoJo and Tubby look vastly superior. There is a reason every team kicks off to LP and not Tubby. I think the fumble Sat night was a bit of a fluke - replay showed it was one of those perfect helmet square on ball type of hits - the kind that cause a lot of the NFL fumbles.

KO coverage is a mystery as well. When we cover well seems that the opponent starting at the 15-20 is about all they can get. I guess that's why we don't kick it out of the end zone, but seems the sky kick to the 10 or so is much more effective.

 

[Todd4State]

I can't fault Dan for how he recruits kickers

We've been too busy trying to get depth at every position. We have what, like 3-4 kickers? Not like we haven't tried to get any.

Kickers are so squirrely anyway- you give a scholarship to a guy like John Micheal Marlin and you are almost obligated to have him be your kicker no matter what. Just let them walk-on and whomever does the job the best gets the scholarship. I think that's how most schools do it as well. You just never know what you are getting.

In hindsight, maybe we should have gotten a JUCO kicker to walk-on since we knew that we were probably going to have a freshman this year- again it's just hard to say since kickers are weird.

But again- I'm not so sure that talent is the issue with our kickers. I think inexperience is the main issue with Bell. Actually, the kickers are the least of my worries with regards to special teams. It's the guys trying to cover the kicks and return the kicks that concern me. If Bell kicks it short whether he is told to or not- we've got to cover it. It's not like Bell is kicking line drives right at people and I think almost all if not all of his kicks are at least inside the five. He just has to get more accurate with his field goals- his kickoffs for the most part are fine. But our lane integrity is horrible.

 

[thf24]

I really just don't know what to think about kickoff coverage. I don't think the touchdowns we've given up are an overly huge deal since they were by two of the best returners in the league, and there is merit in trying to allow returns with a touchback now coming out to the 25, but I do wonder why we were pooch kicking it in the UT game after Patterson's return if Bell is (supposedly) capable of kicking it out of the end zone at will.

 

[AROB44]

If I remember correctly, there were a lot of complaints about Swedenberg when he first started punting.

 

[Coach34]

Wow. I didn't realize that special teams was so easy to coach. We just tell our guys to do nothing and hope the kicker is badass.

Coach you make some good posts during football. This is not one of those times. Why not be objective about Mullen? It isn't that hard.

Well, I have stats supporting my side that says we are pretty good on special teams...everybody else has offered opinion...we have one group out of 4 that struggles

 

[Sugardog]

Coach, I love it when you hammer home a point with Stats. Nice job. We always have the "house is on fire" fans who do not take the time to rationalize what is truly going on.

 

[The Peeper]

Because the kickoff team sucks for the 4th straight year, no excuse

 

[Sutterkane]

Ain't it funny how quickly people forget the Crooms error special teams play?

I remember posts on here about why we should onside kick or kick it out of bounds on our kickoffs (when we actually scored) because the odds were the opposing team would have worse starting field position than if we just kicked it to them and tried to have good coverage.

I also remember watching, in person, as McShank punted on consecutive possessions for 4 yards, and 16 yards in attempt to give Vanderbilt the game.

Do we have great special teams? No. But things are much, much improved under Mullen.

 

[RougeDawg]

You know better than that....

Bama doesn't commit penalties, EVER. Sat night when they were tackling out DE's it was a perfectly legal football play. It's perfectly normal for a DE, who's already past the guard, to fall down on his back and throw his hands up. Refs let this go all the time.

Bama doesn't commit penalties**. Learn that and you will be better off down the road.

 

[BiscuitEater]

Some still remember STs under JWS

Ain't it funny how quickly people forget the Crooms error special teams play?

Do we have great special teams? No. But things are much, much improved under Mullen.

and JWS did a great job with special teams. Several times, blocked punts & FGs completely changed games in our favor. Blake is a good punter and Devin will improve but that doesn't mean that Mullen is doing a 'good' job with STs.

I do think that we need a ST coach. Don't care what the 'stats' are, if we really want to be an elite team, STs have got to improve.

 

[CadaverDawg]

Well, I have stats supporting my side that says we are pretty good on special teams...everybody else has offered opinion...we have one group out of 4 that struggles

Ha, you offer a bunch of punt stats and pound them into the board's heads until they get tired of arguing with you. Nobody is doubting that Swedenburg kicks it high enough that nobody returns it against him.....We aren't talking punts, We are talking Kickoffs. Can you use your stat book to show us how great Mullen's teams are when it comes to kickoff coverage? And don't give me this season's stats against the SunBelt....In our SEC games (except Kentucky's pitiful asses) we have been awful. Auburn and Tennessee took one back, and Bama started the 17ing game off at like mid-field after we botched that coverage. Mullen said before the season on his radio show (I listened, look it up if you can), that he hated that Kickoffs had been moved up because we finally have a kicker in Bell that can kick it through the end zone whenever he wants, and now everybody can. So yes, either Mullen is a bad special teams coach, or he lied about Bell....because if you've given up multiple big returns this season, then you don't kick it short to Alabama to start the game at their place if your kicker can "kick it through the end zone whenever he wants". I am a HUGE Mullen fan, but to try and act like he is a Special Teams guru is absurd. You have a lot of football knowledge, but your inability to be objective about some things, this in particular, is ridiculous. This would be a great time to just tell everyone you're 17ing with them, and move on.

 

[Coach34]

Ha, you offer a bunch of punt stats and pound them into the board's heads until they get tired of arguing with you. Nobody is doubting that Swedenburg kicks it high enough that nobody returns it against him.....We aren't talking punts, We are talking Kickoffs. Can you use your stat book to show us how great Mullen's teams are when it comes to kickoff coverage? And don't give me this season's stats against the SunBelt.....

No, I posted kickoff, kickoff return, punt coverage, punt return...all 4 teams. And the stats show we nowhere near terrible special teams-wise. Now, you can say we havent done a good job of covering kickoffs at times- but overall, our special teams are pretty good. To say otherwise is pure ******** with nothing to back it up

 

[CadaverDawg]

No, I posted kickoff, kickoff return, punt coverage, punt return...all 4 teams. And the stats show we nowhere near terrible special teams-wise. Now, you can say we havent done a good job of covering kickoffs at times- but overall, our special teams are pretty good. To say otherwise is pure ******** with nothing to back it up

So, Field Goal team (which we are worst in the league at) is no longer a Special Teams group?

"at times".....as in, in our 2 swing games right after we scored big TD's? That's a bad time to not do a good job. So you're saying, we cover kickoffs well against **** teams and therefore my "stats" make us appear to not be as bad as we are?

One other thing, if we are so great at punt return, who is coaching our guys not to catch a punt inside the 5 yard line? Or not to let a ball bounce when they could fair catch it and save us 20 yards of field position? Or not get so turned around that we have to dive backwards to make the fair catch? Or who makes the decision to put Bumphis in there time and time again to return punts when he is prone to muffing or fumbling them?

And back to kickoffs..who is in charge of telling our kicker to kick it short if he can "kick it through the end zone whenever he wants"? Who's in charge of putting LaDarius Perkins back there every single time despite him rarely making it to the 20 yard line? Who's responsible for never adjusting to the fact that everybody kicks it to Perkins on the right side EVERY single time because they know he never gets past the twenty? Who's responsible for not suring up our blocking on Perkins' side of the field if we're not going to swap him up? Who's responsible for the overall terrible blocking on returns?

These are all things that do not show up in your "stats". Luckily Banks was able to catch the diving fair catches, and we recovered Bumphis' muffs this year. There is much more to Special Teams analysis than looking at our stats against what everyone has deemed "the easiest schedule in the SEC". Just sayin.

 

[Coach34]

We are not last in FG's. Do any of you do any kind of research at all before typing?

We're 13th...not 14th

We have a true freshman kicker- anybody expecting us to be any better this season there was kidding themselves...we certainly need to recruit better kicking-wise, that I agree with

 

[CadaverDawg]

We are not last in FG's. Do any of you do any kind of research at all before typing?

We're 13th...not 14th

We have a true freshman kicker- anybody expecting us to be any better this season there was kidding themselves...we certainly need to recruit better kicking-wise, that I agree with

Why do we even try. seriously

 

[DerHntr]

I have always believed that middle of the pack teams rise up to at least the bottom third of their conference by having better than OK special teams. We shouldn't be happy with one area of special teams being good and 99% of that being attributed to having a great punter.

I should have clarified when responding to this thread that this isn't something that we are absolutely horrendous in. It is something that has not improved much since Mullen has been here (it is mediocre at best and has stayed that way) and it is one of the key areas that we should focus upon to overcome our deficiencies in talent for offense and defense when compared to the Bama's and LSU's of the world. We shouldn't only be slightly better since Mullen took over. We should be a lot better. He is the damn head coach and his area of expertise isn't improving quickly. That is a problem. What message does that send to his assistants when he is breathing down their necks for a lack of improvement?

 

[gravedigger]

because there is NO excuse for being as talented as we are with as POOR production of our special teams.

I'd be fine if it were just poor field goals and kick returns, but we cannot cover on kickoffs, setup returns on punts, pressure punts, pressure other's field goals, or just kick the damn thing through the endzone to eliminate the big return.

****, if Mullen were to hold himself to the standard he holds players and coaches he'd have fired himself long ago.

 

[TUSK.sixpack]

thank god the check cleared...

we could have been in a "dogfight" without em.

 

[TUSK.sixpack]

MSU KO coverage vs SEC teams:

27 Yds/return... not good

less the 2 TD returns vs au and ut.... 17 yds/return... top 5-6 in the country....