Why the SEC is so bad in Bball...

[Hector.sixpack]

Sometime ago (maybe last year or year before) I said something to the effect that the SEC will not get 6 or 7 in the tournament for a long time. It holds true again this year and I've been trying to figure out why the league is so weak from top to bottom. So you've got KY- who will always be good, then Florida (thats kid from the Munsters is a good coach). TN may be next in line.Vandy has looked pretty goodTHIS year. After that, its like- does anybody play consistent competitive basketball year in and out? How can the Big East, ACC, Big Ten and even some of the mid majors consistently other look better than us, or even the majority of the SEC?

Just a couple of guesses:
1. Location- we of the south do not care near as much about basketball as football, therefor the best athletes play football. (a good counter arguement tho is that it only takes 7 or 8 guys to have a good team)
2. Tradition- outside of KY and Florida there's not a relevant basketball tradition (you've got Ark but its been a while)
3. Coaching- great Basketball coaches are hard to identify (ok, I personally don't buy this one but it seems like A LOT of ADs make the wrong choice here)

Thoughts?

 

[EAVdog]

Pure and simple. We're getting better. Some schools are upgrading their facilities, some are adding practice facilities. But overall the conference hasn't put near as much emphasis on Bbal as we have Football. Its the reverse of Football where all the talent wants to play at the highest level of competition. Attendance is weak, fanbase is apathetic. Some games get called for rain delay. Embarassing.

Even the conference refs are low rent compared to others. Some games you can punch your opponent in the jimmy and get away with it and some games if you look at the guy it's a foul. Watching some of the more rowdy games you'll see scrums and wrestling matches break out. It's ugly and anyone watching has to notice. Then you see the 3 pointer attempt from halfcourt while the kid was not even looking during the Kentucky game. Zero consistency.

The arenas, the overall talent, the refs, everything it's just a notch below where it should be.

 

[maroonmania]

while it certainly is true that a lot of the best athletes in the South go with football based on what I am seeing I still think the SEC matches up very well with other conferences from a raw athletic standpoint. The primary deficiency I see is that SEC players don't have the overall skills, fundamentals and basketball IQ of players from some of the rest of the country. That to me would have more to do with 2 & 3 and the fact that mostly "street" ball is being played without a lot of fundamentals training of these players at early ages that teaches things like setting a proper pick, moving without the ball, shooting free throws, rebound positioning, proper defensive footwork etc.

 

[GratefulDawg.sixpack]

People emphasize their sports differently here. Other than the NFL, which transcends regional differences by being popular EVERYWHERE, the sports scene is very different here than down South.

I think there might be a couple high school football teams in the city, but you'd never know it. Most of the college football fans are transplants from the Midwest or elsewhere. Kids play basketball here. As such, the NBA and the Big East are the big attention grabbers. The Big East in football? Terrible.

Counter that with the South, where everyone except UK lives and breathes college football, and you get the point. I've thought for years that our best chance to succeed would be to pour more money into men's basketball. I hope this new practice center will help. We've had some success, but I along with everyone else here think Stans and the program should have done better with the talent we've had. We all know that he's back next year, but if we're not back in the tournament, it's time to find someone else who can get us there and win some games.

-- edited to make the first paragraph clearer

 

[Xenomorph]

*

 

[DowntownDawg]

.....think back to 5-10 years ago. Arkansas was still a relevant program nationally and was not that far from a national championship, although they were fading. But they were a strong team that you were lucky to beat once.

State was a good team back in those days. Alabama was right at our level. They were strong, always in the hunt for the division. We had some huge clashes with Gottfried. LSU was inconsistent but would put a decent team on the floor most years. Just a few years removed from a final 4. Even Ole Miss was putting good teams on the floor.

You felt like you were doing something to get to 8-8. It seems like we earned a 3 seed with a 10-6 record back in the early aughts.

Apathy took over in the West. Everybody got worse. Arkansas made two very average hires. LSU had a couple of busts and lost their momentum. Rod Barnes wrecked OM's program. When Saban came in, the interest fell in Bama hoops and Gottried got burned out.

And we started putting less of a product on the floor, too, but we just weren't falling as fast as everybody else and since we were still winning the division, nobody (outside of a few of us) cared. Winning the division used to mean alot. It used to mean at least a 5 seed. Now, it means absolutely nothing and hasn't for some time.

But it's cyclical and will rebound. Arkansas will be back. Bama is coming back. LSU will get rid of Trent at some point. OM will get rid of Kennedy and may get lucky. It's not going to take a Coach K to come in to any SEC West program right now and make them competitive due to the lack of competition. The longer we wait, the further behind we are going to be.

 

[Irondawg]

while it certainly is true that a lot of the best athletes in the South go with football based on what I am seeing I still think the SEC matches up very well with other conferences from a raw athletic standpoint. The primary deficiency I see is that SEC players don't have the overall skills, fundamentals and basketball IQ of players from some of the rest of the country. That to me would have more to do with 2 & 3 and the fact that mostly "street" ball is being played without a lot of fundamentals training of these players at early ages that teaches things like setting a proper pick, moving without the ball, shooting free throws, rebound positioning, proper defensive footwork etc.

The HS & AAU coaches in the south are, as a whole, atrocious at teaching any fundamentals. I rag on Stansbury for not teaching his team to block out, but you know what - he shouldn't have to be teaching that. The players should have learnedthat in jr. high.

A college coach shouldn't get a 4-star recruit and have to spend time teaching him to dribble (ala Ravern). Athletically our guys are as good or better than lots of teams, but we're far inferior on fundamentalsand basketball IQ.

 

[BiscuitEater]

the media get at least partial credit. They have become the laziest group I can think of at the moment.Most outlets 'cut and paste' somebodies esles internet stories and if it weren't for Google, Twitter or Facebook, most would be greeters at WalMart.

Agree that the Big East plays some good basketball but they really are not as good as most hacks make them out to be.

 

[saltslugs]

SEC has won 5 of the last 20 (25%) NCAA titles and places five in the tourney this year, which isn't shabby at all. The SEC had 2 bad years but it seems that things are turning around. We are easily the best football conference and probably the best baseball conference, which is awesome. But, there's no reason to think that we should be the best basketball conference as well. <div>
</div><div>Maybe it could be better, but saying "so bad" is outrageous. </div>

 

[GloryDawg]

That's the reason. Our best atheletes play football and that's the main reason in the deep south. Get up into NC and Virgiania basketball is more important. Look at Bost. He could have been just as good as a QB but chose basketball. KY is not the deep south and they are just average or belowin football but hell in basketball.</p>

 

[DAWG61]

the problem imo is that there are tons of teams in basketball that are historically good basketball teams and not big football teams. The entire Big East has how many natchamps in basketball that are nothing in football? Georgetown,St.Johns,Villanova,Syracuse,Pittsburgh,UConn,Marquette,Cinncinnati,Seton Hall,Providence,Rutgers,Notre Dame,USF,Depaul,West Virginia,Louisville. That is a basketball power conference that gets so much attention from ESPN it's almost impossible for the SEC to compete. Throw in the historic teams in the ACC Duke,UNC,Wake Forest,GTech,Maryland,NCState. The Big Ten Ohio State,Purdue,Michigan,Indiana,Wisconsin,Michigan State,Illinois. The Big 12 Kansas,Oklahoma State,Texas,Oklahoma,Kansas State,Missouri. Then you have to throw in the Pac10 UCLA,Washington,USC,Arizona. All the small teams Gonzaga,Butler etc...there are SO MANY teams with basketball tradition and pride that the best thing for the SEC to try to do is just try to keep up with Kentucky who has obliterated the SEC for the last 53 years it's a joke. So we can't even do that we just say 17 it we got football!!

 

[Seinfeld]

created by the rapidly growing parity in the sport of college basketball as a whole as well as our expectation to dominate any sport as a conference. I'll concede that recruiting has dropped off a bit in the SEC over the last 5-7 years and it's been a few years since I've felt that the conference had a true national title caliber team. However, as you pointed out, the SEC owns a quarter of the national titles from the last two decades and has had at least three runner-ups in that same time period that I can think of off the top of my head. Even looking at this year, this "terrible" conference got the 3rd most bids in the NCAA tournament out of 31 conferences and if you want to look at RPI, the SEC is 6th overall. Again, not what SEC fans are used to, but it's not terrible.

So why is the perception that the SEC is awful is basketball? I think there are two main reasons.

1. Over the last few years, college basketball has broken through the strong grasp of the power schools. Sure, Kansas, Duke, KY, and Carolina may still have the most resources and talent, but the little guys are now completely relevant. Remember the days when the first 13 or so games on your schedule were free wins? I know a lot of MSU fans would like to think that it's only Stansbury's sorry *** that's losing to these guys, but look around the country, folks. It's happening everywhere. Anyone remember Florida losing to Jacksonville? How about Louisville dropping one to Drexel or Syracuse falling to Seton Hall? Then you throw a team like Butler in a national championship game and it's impossible not to see that the gap is not just narrowing. It's completely gone. There's no question that the Big East is the powerhouse of college basketball but beyond them, it's a dog fight among a couple hundred teams rather than the 20-30 that we're used to seeing. When was the last time you saw Utah State, San Diego State, and BYU in a Top 25?

2. SEC fans expect to dominate everything, plain and simple. I'm not saying that's a bad thing. All I'm saying is that when you put 80% or more of your teams in bowl games nearly every year and have 5 straight BCS titles in the most powerful college sport in the country, you start to have sometimes unrealistic expectations for other SEC sports. As a conference, we have 3 teams in the Top 25(3rd), 5 teams in the tournament(3rd), and we're the 6th ranked RPI conference. That's not what most of us like or have seen in the past, but it's no worse than the majority of other power conferences. Basically, if the SEC is terrible, then every conference in the country is terrible aside from the Big East. Considering the sheer dominance of the Big East this year, that might actually be a fair statement.

edited to use proper english

 

[Hector.sixpack]

and I'm trying to figure out why. There's no reason we shouldn't have 6,7,8 teams in the tournament consistentlywith the available resources. But we are long way from that. If you just watch a little of SEC basketball versus the forementioned conferences, we are not good. We'll have a couple of good teams, but as a conference we do not play good basketball. </p>

 

[VegasDawg13]

nm

 

[Hector.sixpack]

nm

 

[VegasDawg13]

As Seinfeld pointed out, the landscape has changed. The mid-majors are better, and the Big East takes up an unprecedented number of the at-large bids. If you take the Big East out of the equation, the SEC stacks up pretty well.