will housing bring down trump?

[baltimorened]

New analysis from reddit about housing. We already know about 1st time buyers, the high cost of housing, high interest rates. Now, reddit is predicting whole scale changes to the Gen Z mindset about housing. Seems as if we now have a generation too strapped financially to get their own houses. They're moving back in with their parents, multi sharing with others.

We know there are problems with supply and cost and in reality, it appears as if there's going to be some need for government to help. But, right now, as far as we know, there's no plan in the works.

I still remember from econ 101 the concept that housing leads into recession and housing leads out of recession. We have just come through a "boom" for housing and now with the market cooling, I hope we're not in for a bust.

 

[PalmettoTiger1]

One big issue is the cost of material such as SPF framing lumber, shingles asphalt tied to oil, land costs, regulations, etc. or really just about every facet of new house building costs.

Having multiple years of investments in housing and related stuff I can say housing became the FAT COW everybody wanted to milk which now has the cow about milked out.

Drastic cost reductions need to start with regulations and taxes and work down from there.

All the skilled blue collar workers have jacked up their pay so thats a big issue. If the US had brought in by immigration of skilled carpenters, plumbers, electricians , roofers, framers, trim guys then labor costs would be down.

Instead the illegal immigration brought in public services parasites which have by their very present sucked up available housing.

Remove the illegals and housing woes will be dramatically helped.

 

[dpic73]

One big issue is the cost of material such as SPF framing lumber, shingles asphalt tied to oil, land costs, regulations, etc. or really just about every facet of new house building costs.

Having multiple years of investments in housing and related stuff I can say housing became the FAT COW everybody wanted to milk which now has the cow about milked out.

Drastic cost reductions need to start with regulations and taxes and work down from there.

All the skilled blue collar workers have jacked up their pay so thats a big issue. If the US had brought in by immigration of skilled carpenters, plumbers, electricians , roofers, framers, trim guys then labor costs would be down.

Instead the illegal immigration brought in public services parasites which have by their very present sucked up available housing.

Remove the illegals and housing woes will be dramatically helped.

I wonder how that happened?

"The U.S. faces a housing shortage measured in the millions of units, and families are struggling with historically high rents and home prices. The Trump administration has expressed a goal to reduce the cost of living and make housing more affordable, and may declare a national housing emergency. But it is also imposing new or elevated tariffs on lumber, gypsum, steel, and now, kitchen cabinets, bathroom vanities, and other related products, the very materials that builders need to construct new homes.

These taxes raise costs across the board—whether for new construction, renovations, or affordable housing development. Using TPC’s tariff model, we calculated that current tariffs, including those just announced, will add roughly $30 billion to the costs of investment in residential structures. Our calculations show that about 90% of the costs to residential investment will fall on construction of new homes, including apartments.

They will also affect homeowners renovating their homes or doing normal maintenance. Likewise, buying appliances and furniture will become more expensive. Already for 2025, we calculate the prices of major appliances have gone up more than twice as fast as overall inflation, and living room, kitchen, and dining room furniture have gone up more than 75% faster.

Such costly tariff policies risk deepening the housing crisis."

Recent tariffs threaten residential construction | Brookings

www.brookings.edu

 

[tigres88]

All the skilled blue collar workers have jacked up their pay so thats a big issue. If the US had brought in by immigration of skilled carpenters, plumbers, electricians , roofers, framers, trim guys then labor costs would be down.

Instead the illegal immigration brought in public services parasites which have by their very present sucked up available housing.

Remove the illegals and housing woes will be dramatically helped.

This honestly might be the stupidest thing you've ever posted on this forum.

Hey look! Blue collar workers in America are charging too much. Hmm... Let me think... Immigrants! Let's bring immigrants in and they can do those blue collar jobs.

What about the immigrants that are doing those jobs now? Oh! No not those guys, they're illegal. Let's spend all our time and resources kicking them all our of the country. We can create an ENORMOUS vacuum in blue collar work.

Next, once we've spent years trying to kick them all out, we spend all our time and resources bringing in OTHER immigrants to do those jobs from out of the country to fill that vacuum. That'll be quick and efficient and will definitely solve our problems.

Literally the stupidest logic/line of thinking I've ever seen.

 

[fatpiggy]

New analysis from reddit about housing. We already know about 1st time buyers, the high cost of housing, high interest rates. Now, reddit is predicting whole scale changes to the Gen Z mindset about housing. Seems as if we now have a generation too strapped financially to get their own houses. They're moving back in with their parents, multi sharing with others.

We know there are problems with supply and cost and in reality, it appears as if there's going to be some need for government to help. But, right now, as far as we know, there's no plan in the works.

I still remember from econ 101 the concept that housing leads into recession and housing leads out of recession. We have just come through a "boom" for housing and now with the market cooling, I hope we're not in for a bust.

Reddit? Are you serious Clark?

 

[PalmettoTiger1]

This honestly might be the stupidest thing you've ever posted on this forum.

Hey look! Blue collar workers in America are charging too much. Hmm... Let me think... Immigrants! Let's bring immigrants in and they can do those blue collar jobs.

What about the immigrants that are doing those jobs now? Oh! No not those guys, they're illegal. Let's spend all our time and resources kicking them all our of the country. We can create an ENORMOUS vacuum in blue collar work.

Next, once we've spent years trying to kick them all out, we spend all our time and resources bringing in OTHER immigrants to do those jobs from out of the country to fill that vacuum. That'll be quick and efficient and will definitely solve our problems.

Literally the stupidest logic/line of thinking I've ever seen.

Decided to post the second stupidest post of all time.

I like to explain issues by using something folks might be more able to understand by making it simple and something someone does every day.

That said with housing costs a lot of the problem is the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Let’s use one feature of some new housing regulations. Wall insulation on new homes.

So regulators for example want a higher insulation on wall values which are typically 4 inch thick or 2x4 x 96 framing studs . With some municipalities the requirement for insulation makes the builder install 2x6x8 studs which are not common and require more lumber more cuts more handling more costs. Since most items such as windows are based on 4 inch thick walls now everything costs more because that becomes a non standard.

This can get really in depth but I will cut it short for those born with generational stupidity like me as you inferred.

So the point is let’s say the cost of adding this cost to the $400,000.00 house adds $40,000.00.

One must ask what financial gain over the life cycle of the house. Energy efficiency is the reason and the saving may be less than a $1000 a year if that.

So the answer is the do gooders which we all want to do good fail to look at overall costs.

Simple truth.

 

[baltimorened]

Reddit? Are you serious Clark?

This is not the only source that reports the same thing. Young people are being priced out of home buying. There was a story yesterday by a well known, wealthy, individual in real estate. His point was that the only young people buying houses (an exaggeration, I'd bet) come with their 60 year old parents or 80 year old grandparents, because those in the older generations are the ones with the money.

Starter homes, just as Palmetto Tiger posted are burdened with many government imposed regulations that add near term cost, with anticipated long term savings, to the the price of the home . I admit I don't have a solution but, everyone needs a place to live, and mom and dad's house is probably not that place.

Now if have different information on the state of housing and the young generation, I'd certainly be interested.

 

[PawPride]

This could be just random nonsense I've heard, but I feel like those cookie cutter homes (Lennar, Mungo, DR Horton, etc) all are **** quality and seem to have way more problems than homes built in the 70s/80s. Those companies are mass producing neighborhoods as quickly as possible using the cheapest materials possible just seems like a recipe for failure for home buyers.

 

[fatpiggy]

This is not the only source that reports the same thing. Young people are being priced out of home buying. There was a story yesterday by a well known, wealthy, individual in real estate. His point was that the only young people buying houses (an exaggeration, I'd bet) come with their 60 year old parents or 80 year old grandparents, because those in the older generations are the ones with the money.

Starter homes, just as Palmetto Tiger posted are burdened with many government imposed regulations that add near term cost, with anticipated long term savings, to the the price of the home . I admit I don't have a solution but, everyone needs a place to live, and mom and dad's house is probably not that place.

Now if have different information on the state of housing and the young generation, I'd certainly be interested.

I don't disagree with anything you said, but when you start your post with "analysis from redditt" i have to disregard what follows. Redditt doesn't allow any dissent. If you post something contrary to the left party line says they immediately ban you from the forum all together.

But yes, we need more housing at the lower end of the price scale.

 

[fatpiggy]

This could be just random nonsense I've heard, but I feel like those cookie cutter homes (Lennar, Mungo, DR Horton, etc) all are **** quality and seem to have way more problems than homes built in the 70s/80s. Those companies are mass producing neighborhoods as quickly as possible using the cheapest materials possible just seems like a recipe for failure for home buyers.

Ya get what you pay for.

 

[bdgan]

I wonder how that happened?

"The U.S. faces a housing shortage measured in the millions of units, and families are struggling with historically high rents and home prices. The Trump administration has expressed a goal to reduce the cost of living and make housing more affordable, and may declare a national housing emergency. But it is also imposing new or elevated tariffs on lumber, gypsum, steel, and now, kitchen cabinets, bathroom vanities, and other related products, the very materials that builders need to construct new homes.

These taxes raise costs across the board—whether for new construction, renovations, or affordable housing development. Using TPC’s tariff model, we calculated that current tariffs, including those just announced, will add roughly $30 billion to the costs of investment in residential structures. Our calculations show that about 90% of the costs to residential investment will fall on construction of new homes, including apartments.

They will also affect homeowners renovating their homes or doing normal maintenance. Likewise, buying appliances and furniture will become more expensive. Already for 2025, we calculate the prices of major appliances have gone up more than twice as fast as overall inflation, and living room, kitchen, and dining room furniture have gone up more than 75% faster.

Such costly tariff policies risk deepening the housing crisis."

Recent tariffs threaten residential construction | Brookings

www.brookings.edu

Good point dpic. Housing was affordable until just a few months ago when tariffs went into place. It's all Trump's fault.

 

[dpic73]

Good point dpic. Housing was affordable until just a few months ago when tariffs went into place. It's all Trump's fault.

If you had any integrity you would acknowledge that he won mostly because he promised to bring prices down but instead he jacked them up unnecessarily with his reckless tariff agenda. Which was the point that you ignored.

 

[bdgan]

If you had any integrity you would acknowledge that he won mostly because he promised to bring prices down but instead he jacked them up unnecessarily with his reckless tariff agenda. Which was the point that you ignored.

From ultra conservative extreme MAGA NPR:

The White House has declared that "President Biden is committed to using every tool available in government to produce more affordable housing supply as quickly as possible." Yet on Nov. 24, Biden's Commerce Department announced it was doubling duties on softwood lumber imported from Canada, from an average of 8.99% to 17.9%. Softwood lumber is a crucial material needed to build houses, and levying a large tax on imports only hurts the cause of expanding housing supply.

The NAHB — which represents homebuilders, which, naturally, have an interest in low lumber prices — is unhappy with Biden's policy. "With the nation in the midst of a housing affordability crisis, the Biden administration has moved to slap a huge, unwanted tax hike on American home buyers and renters," said NAHB Chairman Chuck Fowke

Why is the Biden administration increasing the cost of building houses? : Planet Money : NPR

The National Association of Homebuilders says excessive regulations account for 24% of home costs. I saw an interview this morning where a builder talked about requirements to use 2X6 instead of 2x4 so they could improve insulation. Another example was that new homes are required to be pre wired for EV charging.

Another major problem is that people aren't selling because the government kept interest rates artificially low and people with 2.5% mortgages don't want to sell.

I'm not sure how much Trump's tariffs are impacting prices. I tried to look it up and I saw that some lumber from Canada is exempt under USMCA but I also saw that Trump imposed a tariff to avoid dumping. But let's assume you're correct and that's a factor. The fact remains that housing affordability was a huge issue under Biden and even he imposed tariffs on Canadian lumber because of dumping. You have absolutely ZERO ability to discuss issues constructively. All you ever have is "dictator, racist, Nazi, pedophile. You should get help.

 

[Jfcarter3]

Decided to post the second stupidest post of all time.

I like to explain issues by using something folks might be more able to understand by making it simple and something someone does every day.

That said with housing costs a lot of the problem is the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Let’s use one feature of some new housing regulations. Wall insulation on new homes.

So regulators for example want a higher insulation on wall values which are typically 4 inch thick or 2x4 x 96 framing studs . With some municipalities the requirement for insulation makes the builder install 2x6x8 studs which are not common and require more lumber more cuts more handling more costs. Since most items such as windows are based on 4 inch thick walls now everything costs more because that becomes a non standard.

This can get really in depth but I will cut it short for those born with generational stupidity like me as you inferred.

So the point is let’s say the cost of adding this cost to the $400,000.00 house adds $40,000.00.

One must ask what financial gain over the life cycle of the house. Energy efficiency is the reason and the saving may be less than a $1000 a year if that.

So the answer is the do gooders which we all want to do good fail to look at overall costs.

Simple truth.

That literally addressed nothing that he pointed out.

 

[yoshi121374]

I don't disagree with anything you said, but when you start your post with "analysis from redditt" i have to disregard what follows. Redditt doesn't allow any dissent. If you post something contrary to the left party line says they immediately ban you from the forum all together.

But yes, we need more housing at the lower end of the price scale.

What?? Someone has no idea what reddit is...

 

[dpic73]

From ultra conservative extreme MAGA NPR:

The White House has declared that "President Biden is committed to using every tool available in government to produce more affordable housing supply as quickly as possible." Yet on Nov. 24, Biden's Commerce Department announced it was doubling duties on softwood lumber imported from Canada, from an average of 8.99% to 17.9%. Softwood lumber is a crucial material needed to build houses, and levying a large tax on imports only hurts the cause of expanding housing supply.

The NAHB — which represents homebuilders, which, naturally, have an interest in low lumber prices — is unhappy with Biden's policy. "With the nation in the midst of a housing affordability crisis, the Biden administration has moved to slap a huge, unwanted tax hike on American home buyers and renters," said NAHB Chairman Chuck Fowke

Why is the Biden administration increasing the cost of building houses? : Planet Money : NPR

The National Association of Homebuilders says excessive regulations account for 24% of home costs. I saw an interview this morning where a builder talked about requirements to use 2X6 instead of 2x4 so they could improve insulation. Another example was that new homes are required to be pre wired for EV charging.

Another major problem is that people aren't selling because the government kept interest rates artificially low and people with 2.5% mortgages don't want to sell.

I'm not sure how much Trump's tariffs are impacting prices. I tried to look it up and I saw that some lumber from Canada is exempt under USMCA but I also saw that Trump imposed a tariff to avoid dumping. But let's assume you're correct and that's a factor. The fact remains that housing affordability was a huge issue under Biden and even he imposed tariffs on Canadian lumber because of dumping. You have absolutely ZERO ability to discuss issues constructively. All you ever have is "dictator, racist, Nazi, pedophile. You should get help.

I don't know who you think you are but I will post whatever I want to post and your desire to keep me from talking about this clown-led idiocracy does not supercede my right to speak my mind in the way that I want. But for your information, we are talking about Trump, not Biden and the post you are referencing was discussing an issue. Seems like in your attempt at whataboutism you neglected this part of the article I quoted. In particular, please note the words NEW and CURRENT. Thank you for your attention to this matter.

"But it is also imposing new or elevated tariffs on lumber, gypsum, steel, and now, kitchen cabinets, bathroom vanities, and other related products, the very materials that builders need to construct new homes.

These taxes raise costs across the board—whether for new construction, renovations, or affordable housing development. Using TPC’s tariff model, we calculated that current tariffs, including those just announced, will add roughly $30 billion to the costs of investment in residential structures. Our calculations show that about 90% of the costs to residential investment will fall on construction of new homes, including apartments."

 

[bdgan]

I don't know who you think you are but I will post whatever I want to post and your desire to keep me from talking about this clown-led idiocracy does not supercede my right to speak my mind in the way that I want. But for your information, we are talking about Trump, not Biden and the post you are referencing was discussing an issue. Seems like in your attempt at whataboutism you neglected this part of the article I quoted. In particular, please note the words NEW and CURRENT. Thank you for your attention to this matter.

"But it is also imposing new or elevated tariffs on lumber, gypsum, steel, and now, kitchen cabinets, bathroom vanities, and other related products, the very materials that builders need to construct new homes.

These taxes raise costs across the board—whether for new construction, renovations, or affordable housing development. Using TPC’s tariff model, we calculated that current tariffs, including those just announced, will add roughly $30 billion to the costs of investment in residential structures. Our calculations show that about 90% of the costs to residential investment will fall on construction of new homes, including apartments."

You never objectively discuss any issue.

Homes are expensive - blame Trump
Health insurance is expensive - blame Trump
Crime is high - blame Trump
The Ukraine war is still going on - blame Trump

Fact: 90% of the post covid inflation occurred under Biden. It's not my intention to push that but when you put it all on Trump your not being honest much less objective.

 

[yoshi121374]

You never objectively discuss any issue.

Homes are expensive - blame Trump
Health insurance is expensive - blame Trump
Crime is high - blame Trump
The Ukraine war is still going on - blame Trump

Fact: 90% of the post covid inflation occurred under Biden. It's not my intention to push that but when you put it all on Trump your not being honest much less objective.

Well.... Trump claimed he was going to fix all those items day one. It's easy to blame when the dude was elected partially based on his claims.

What always is funny to me is that MAGAS never hold him responsible for the crap HE SAID PERSONALLY.

 

[dpic73]

You never objectively discuss any issue.

Homes are expensive - blame Trump
Health insurance is expensive - blame Trump
Crime is high - blame Trump
The Ukraine war is still going on - blame Trump

Fact: 90% of the post covid inflation occurred under Biden. It's not my intention to push that but when you put it all on Trump your not being honest much less objective.

Besides the fact that you bastardized anything I may have said and made up the comment about crime out of whole cloth, I will never be able to satisfy you because we see this administration in fundamentally different ways. He's a pathologically lying, treasonous sociopath who should have never been let off the mat but you didn't care and gave him the keys anyway. He's now proven in a thousand different ways that he's completely unfit for office and he's creating great damage to our country. Sorry, but I won't appease you by ignoring the big picture in favor of discussing the few good things that he might have done to make you feel better. It's too bad if you don't like it.

 

[baltimorened]

Besides the fact that you bastardized anything I may have said and made up the comment about crime out of whole cloth, I will never be able to satisfy you because we see this administration in fundamentally different ways. He's a pathologically lying, treasonous sociopath who should have never been let off the mat but you didn't care and gave him the keys anyway. He's now proven in a thousand different ways that he's completely unfit for office and he's creating great damage to our country. Sorry, but I won't appease you by ignoring the big picture in favor of discussing the few good things that he might have done to make you feel better. It's too bad if you don't like it.

speaking of seeing things in different ways....could you share the "thousand different ways" that he's completely unfit for office and creating great damage to our country? I realize you might have been exaggerating a little, so 500 would do.

Not trying to be an a-- here. It's just that you see things differently that some others who post here. What you see as creating damage to our country others see as doing things necessary to grow or keep our country safe. And, you know what, andI know you don't agree with me, the two beliefs are not mutually exclusive. There is a middle ground. And like it or not how we got from 1776 through about 2000 was governing from the middle ground. For some reason, seemingly starting with Bush 2, we've become an all or nothing governing body. And, in my opinion, we're none the better for it,

 

[nytigerfan]

You never objectively discuss any issue.

Homes are expensive - blame Trump
Health insurance is expensive - blame Trump
Crime is high - blame Trump
The Ukraine war is still going on - blame Trump

Fact: 90% of the post covid inflation occurred under Biden. It's not my intention to push that but when you put it all on Trump your not being honest much less objective.

Fact: 80% of the post COVID inflation that happened under Biden was because of Trump's covid stimulus and mismanaging of covid in the first place which led to massive supply chain disruptions.

I love this game.

You magas never disappoint. You spent all four years of biden's presidency (and all 8 years of Obama's) blaming every single problem on them. If a person was murdered in Memphis, that was because biden was soft on crime. If a soldier was killed in Afghanistan, blood was on biden's hands. If the price of gas went up, biden. If a fly farted in your face... thanks biden.

But now that trump is president, the same rules don't apply. He needs time! Its not his fault! Its the deep state! He just speaks in hyperbole like all politicians so he should not be held to his campaign promises.

 

[UrHuckleberry]

You never objectively discuss any issue.

Homes are expensive - blame Trump
Health insurance is expensive - blame Trump
Crime is high - blame Trump
The Ukraine war is still going on - blame Trump

Fact: 90% of the post covid inflation occurred under Biden. It's not my intention to push that but when you put it all on Trump your not being honest much less objective.

Also in fairness, I don't believe he was saying housing is high because of Trump. Rather than housing prices are rising due to Trump. Those are different things.

 

[baltimorened]

Fact: 80% of the post COVID inflation that happened under Biden was because of Trump's covid stimulus and mismanaging of covid in the first place which led to massive supply chain disruptions.

I love this game.

You magas never disappoint. You spent all four years of biden's presidency (and all 8 years of Obama's) blaming every single problem on them. If a person was murdered in Memphis, that was because biden was soft on crime. If a soldier was killed in Afghanistan, blood was on biden's hands. If the price of gas went up, biden. If a fly farted in your face... thanks biden.

But now that trump is president, the same rules don't apply. He needs time! Its not his fault! Its the deep state! He just speaks in hyperbole like all politicians so he should not be held to his campaign promises.

the reality is, politicians from both parties are responsible for getting us to where we are. We can debate degrees of responsibility, but trying to argue that only one party's actions are responsible is, in my opinion, non productive.

 

[bdgan]

Fact: 80% of the post COVID inflation that happened under Biden was because of Trump's covid stimulus and mismanaging of covid in the first place which led to massive supply chain disruptions.

You're making stuff up.

IMO covid spending was double what it should have been and both parties are to blame. I guess you can put it all on Trump because he was president but he didn't control congress and he didn't want to lose elections. 90% of people continued to be employed through covid. Why did they need stimulus payments? Why did it make sense for unemployed people to receive more than they ever got from working? It was all about buying votes. I remember after the election we were still dealing with the senate races in Georgia. Republicans reluctantly gave in to another $600 stimulus payment but democrats wanted another $2,000. Trump yelled at republicans and told them to increase it because they were losing votes.

When Biden took office he added all kinds of inflationary spending. The American Recovery Act included things like money so schools could reopen safely. The fact is they were already reopened. Biden's added spending was between $3b and $4b and included everything from green projects to rent and loan forgiveness. To this day dems want to continue enhanced covid healthcare subsidies.

The whole thing was insane. When Trump got back in office in January republicans tried to claw back unspent covid money because Covid had been over for a couple of years. Blue states sued him over this yet you blame him for the spending? That makes zero sense.

There were some temporary shortages while supply chains ramped up after the economy reopened but that only lasted for 6 months or so. Healthcare, housing, groceries, utilities, etc aren't more expensive today because of covid which was Trump's fault. Your perspective is way off base.

 

[bdgan]

the reality is, politicians from both parties are responsible for getting us to where we are. We can debate degrees of responsibility, but trying to argue that only one party's actions are responsible is, in my opinion, non productive.

I agree. The discussion should be about the best path going forward.

 

[bdgan]

Also in fairness, I don't believe he was saying housing is high because of Trump. Rather than housing prices are rising due to Trump. Those are different things.

I think I was clear about that. He was blaming housing affordability on Trump's lumber tariffs and I don't deny that those are part of the problem but he was suggesting that they were THE problem. That makes no sense at all because housing affordability has been a growing problem for several years and Trump's tariffs only went into effect 6 months ago. Heck, it takes longer than that to build a house these days so there's virtually no way that our current housing shortage is due to that.

I showed that Biden also imposed a lumber tariff on Canada which he completely dismissed. Then I talked about new regulations (many of them state regulations) requiring 6" studs for more insulation and prewiring for EV charging. I also talked about people not wanting to sell because they don't want to give up their 2.5% mortgage. I blame the Fed for keeping rates too low for too long.

 

[UrHuckleberry]

I think I was clear about that. He was blaming housing affordability on Trump's lumber tariffs and I don't deny that those are part of the problem but he was suggesting that they were THE problem. That makes no sense at all because housing affordability has been a growing problem for several years and Trump's tariffs only went into effect 6 months ago. Heck, it takes longer than that to build a house these days so there's virtually no way that our current housing shortage is due to that.

I showed that Biden also imposed a lumber tariff on Canada which he completely dismissed. Then I talked about new regulations (many of them state regulations) requiring 6" studs for more insulation and prewiring for EV charging. I also talked about people not wanting to sell because they don't want to give up their 2.5% mortgage. I blame the Fed for keeping rates too low for too long.

I think you're reading more in to what he shared than was intended. I also will admit that he does lean towards inflammatory language, tho often in response to those on the other side that will never take any blame for Trump's responsibility in an issue.

 

[nytigerfan]

I agree. The discussion should be about the best path going forward.

OK great. May e you should not make statements like the one you made in this thread.

Ofcourse both parties are to blame. That is a sensible argument.

I just wish you and @baltimorened would give the same lecture to your maga comrades on here. You know the ones who praise Trump when the stock market is up and then blame Biden a month later in the stock market it goes down. Same with natural gas. Same with the oil stain with housing prices.

Why Dont you ever call them out?

 

[bdgan]

I think you're reading more in to what he shared than was intended. I also will admit that he does lean towards inflammatory language, tho often in response to those on the other side that will never take any blame for Trump's responsibility in an issue.

I don't see how Trump has ANY responsibility for creating the current housing affordability issue. How could he?

I do know that it's his issue to deal with and I understand that lumber tariffs could have a negative impact on future housing supply and affordability. I support the tariffs in general but I think Trump went too far. One of the areas where he went too far IMO was Canada. I don't know all the details about unfair trade practices with Canada and I know that Biden also imposed tariffs on Canadian lumber. Regardless I think it's extremely important to have great relations with them more than any other country and I think Trump needs to do more to get things resolved. His talk about Canada being our 51st state just pi$$ed them off.

I'd like Mexico to be a great partner too. Wouldn't a strong strategic alliance in North America be great? It would be wonderful if we could get our low cost labor from Mexico instead of Asis. The problem is Mexico is a corrupt country and the drug cartels have their president by the ball$.

P.S. Canada only spends 1.3% of GDP on defense and that's total B.S. IMO.

 

[dpic73]

I think I was clear about that. He was blaming housing affordability on Trump's lumber tariffs and I don't deny that those are part of the problem but he was suggesting that they were THE problem. That makes no sense at all because housing affordability has been a growing problem for several years and Trump's tariffs only went into effect 6 months ago. Heck, it takes longer than that to build a house these days so there's virtually no way that our current housing shortage is due to that.

I showed that Biden also imposed a lumber tariff on Canada which he completely dismissed. Then I talked about new regulations (many of them state regulations) requiring 6" studs for more insulation and prewiring for EV charging. I also talked about people not wanting to sell because they don't want to give up their 2.5% mortgage. I blame the Fed for keeping rates too low for too long.

This is why I can't have discussions with you because you don't argue in good faith and you will twist my statements to fit your narrative.

• First, I didn't blame housing affordability on lumber tariffs, the ARTICLE did.
• And this is the maddening part, you harp on the lumber cost exclusively so you can say that Biden did it too, when the article mentioned a list of items, not JUST lumber. So for the 2nd time, let me remind you what it actually said.

"But it is also imposing new or elevated tariffs on lumber, gypsum, steel, and now, kitchen cabinets, bathroom vanities, and other related products, the very materials that builders need to construct new homes.

These taxes raise costs across the board—whether for new construction, renovations, or affordable housing development. Using TPC’s tariff model, we calculated that current tariffs, including those just announced, will add roughly $30 billion to the costs of investment in residential structures."

The key being these are NEW tariffs that are causing the costs of home building to go up after he was elected because he promised to lower costs.

This wouldn't be so hard if you didn't have DPIC Derangement Syndrome...

 

[baltimorened]

OK great. May e you should not make statements like the one you made in this thread.

Ofcourse both parties are to blame. That is a sensible argument.

I just wish you and @baltimorened would give the same lecture to your maga comrades on here. You know the ones who praise Trump when the stock market is up and then blame Biden a month later in the stock market it goes down. Same with natural gas. Same with the oil stain with housing prices.

Why Dont you ever call them out?

I'm hoping you don't have my positions correct in your post. I have taken the position that it's foolhardy to praise or denigrate either President for market fluctuations. The market goes up, the market goes down. As soon as you blame either President for market declines it goes up again.

I'm far from a MAGA comrade. I agree with Trump when I think he's right, I disagree when I think he's wrong. Same with Biden and same with whomever becomes president in 2028. I try to convince people of exactly what you posted and that is that normally both parties have played a hand in the situations we find ourselves in. I have been berated by some on the left for maintaining that our problems under Biden, and our problems under Trump and the likely problems of whomever becomes president in 2028 don't occur in a vacuum. The actions taken by previous presidents do have effects for the next and both parties play a role in the country's successes and failures

For example, the current debate on housing affordability. We have been building for our current position for years. Trump might not be directly at fault for the current crisis, but he was president for 4 years prior. He pushed for the low interest rates then that are a cause of the fact that people who got 2%, ot thereabouts, mortgages during his term aren't moving today.

He also instituted the tariffs, and that's already been pointed out.

And, it's his administration's job to create some public policy to get markets moving again, be it loan buydowns for first time buyers, moratorium on some regulations, other incentives, Visa for foreign construction workers , whatever.

Everyone knows we have a housing issue. We need to do something about it

 

[Aardvark86]

My Virginia/DMV experience, which may well not be represenatative, so I'm curious what others in other geographies think...

The "GenZ housing crisis" is not a supply side issue. It is a(n unreasonable) demand side issue. Specifically, Gen Z believe that is beneath them to live anywhere they cannot walk to only the coolest inner city pubs and art galleries. They would not be caught dead living in a (more) affordable house in the burbs where they actually might have to "commute" (in some cases, god forbid, with other people, using mass transit).

 

[bdgan]

For example, the current debate on housing affordability. We have been building for our current position for years. Trump might not be directly at fault for the current crisis, but he was president for 4 years prior. He pushed for the low interest rates then that are a cause of the fact that people who got 2%, ot thereabouts, mortgages during his term aren't moving today.


And, it's his administration's job to create some public policy to get markets moving again, be it loan buydowns for first time buyers, moratorium on some regulations, other incentives, Visa for foreign construction workers , whatever.

Everyone knows we have a housing issue. We need to do something about it

You are 100% correct that Trump pushed for low rates during his first term but his complaining wasn't effective. The Fed discount rate was 0.65% when he became president and the Fed increased those rates steadily during his first 3 years until Covid hit. The fact that he complained wasn't what kept mortgage rates artificially low. Mortgages were 4.3% when Trump took office and they didn't come down much until Covid hit. They didn't get to 2.7% until he was out of office for 9 months.

I'm not sure what Trump should do at this point. Sometimes thing just have to work their way through the system. The government allowing no/low money down loans is what got us into trouble during the mortgage crisis. I think loan buydowns would be a horrible idea. How much has free money helped lower healthcare costs? The more government gets involved the more things get mucked up. Mortgage rates seem to be coming down a bit and that should help.

I said that I hope Trump can work things out with Canada. Maybe he can do something about federal regulations but he probably doesn't have authority has over state regulations.

 

[TheValley91]

You are 100% correct that Trump pushed for low rates during his first term but his complaining wasn't effective. The Fed discount rate was 0.65% when he became president and the Fed increased those rates steadily during his first 3 years until Covid hit. The fact that he complained wasn't what kept mortgage rates artificially low. Mortgages were 4.3% when Trump took office and they didn't come down much until Covid hit. They didn't get to 2.7% until he was out of office for 9 months.

I'm not sure what Trump should do at this point. Sometimes thing just have to work their way through the system. The government allowing no/low money down loans is what got us into trouble during the mortgage crisis. I think loan buydowns would be a horrible idea. How much has free money helped lower healthcare costs? The more government gets involved the more things get mucked up. Mortgage rates seem to be coming down a bit and that should help.

I said that I hope Trump can work things out with Canada. Maybe he can do something about federal regulations but he probably doesn't have authority has over state regulations.

Over promise and under deliver.

 

[DCandtheUTBand]

Supposedly my house is worth 350k and it needs lots of repairs. Rents in this area for a home are 2k/mo
My mortgage payment is 850. Home was built in 78 and my original price was 92K

Institutional buyers are here all the time buying these older homes at "auction." One neighbor sold his home for 320k+ and moved to New Mexico. House there was ~150K on larger plot. There were 10 or more buyers bidding on his house and it sold on day one. I do not see Gen Z doing well in this environment. Heck, institutional buyers (snail mail and constant text mssg) want to buy my house all the time but where would I live and why would I trade 850/mo for a comparable home at 2200/mo. I think I will rent out my house when I retire and head to the woods. The 2K is equal to the average SS Check. So it would be like an extra retirement check.

There at least in Mid TN is a affordable housing problem and not just for Gen Z but for anyone making the median income in this area.

Across the road is a rental with 6 cars out front and a RV trailer. 20 somethings living there. At least 6 of them. This is the suburbs. Most Gen Z entering the workforce can not afford a 350K+ home or 2K in rent in this area.

Now I think someone is confusing Gen Z with millennials.

They are the ones that demanded entry level pay on par with Boomer and Gen X workers with decades of experience, worked two years and then took a year off to travel, changed jobs like socks, pushed woke and social activism into the workforce, decided to live in those fancy condos with retail establishments on the bottom floors, etc etc.

Gen Z men might be trending conservative but the women are woke like millennials.

I think we might begin to see a new wave of mail order brides if Gen Z men can figure out how to buy a house. They want marriage but Gen Z women do not.

 

[tigres88]

Supposedly my house is worth 350k and it needs lots of repairs. Rents in this area for a home are 2k/mo
My mortgage payment is 850. Home was built in 78 and my original price was 92K

This all checks out so incredibly much lol

 

[DCandtheUTBand]

This all checks out so incredibly much lol

Without revealing the town here is AI answer when querying the median price of homes in my area. Its in Mid TN.

"The median list price in September 2025 was $476,000, showing a 7% decrease from the previous month."

That is the latest month mentioned. My home built in 78 is a ranch style @1600 sqft. Approx value $350K and 120K below average.

So why the comment?

Median household income in this area is 78K. Under the original guidelines for buying a home one should have 87K to buy my house and 106K to afford the average home.

So housing is unaffordable for the majority in this area.

 

[PalmettoTiger1]

Just to add to the confusion and finger pointing
.
The True Cost of Building a Home Today | Family Handyman

FAMILY HANDYMAN

 

[TigerGrowls]

Tell the young people to get their funds ready to buy cheap.



DO NOT BUY A HOUSE RIGHT NOW!!!!

If you or a family member owns a home, you NEED to see this. This is important.

The U.S. housing market is officially in its biggest bubble in 135 years.

And almost nobody wants to talk about it.

Take a look at this.

This isn’t 2006.

This isn’t the post-WW2 boom.

This is 2025, and inflation-adjusted home prices just blew past every bubble in U.S. history.

Here’s what’s insane:

– The 2006 bubble peak? 266.4
– Today’s level? ~300 (inflation-adjusted!)

That means homes are more overpriced NOW than before the BIGGEST housing collapse in modern history.

And the craziest part?

– Wages haven’t kept up.
– Mortgage rates are still elevated.
– Inventory is tightening again.
– And buyers are using more debt than ever to chase the top of the curve.

This is literally the opposite of bullish.

This is what a late cycle blowoff top looks like.

When prices detach from fundamentals for too long, one of two things happens:

Prices fall.
The entire economy pays the bill.

If home prices drop more than 40%, half of U.S. families will end up buried in debt they won’t be able to pay off for the next 20+ years.

History doesn’t lie, it repeats.

If you’re invested in real estate, thinking about buying, or exposed to the broader market… pay attention.

This chart is screaming louder than any analyst on CNBC.

But the thing is, you still have time to position yourself accordingly.

I called the last two market tops days before they happened, and I’ll do it again because that’s what i’m good at.

I’ll keep breaking this down in the coming days.

You’re going to wish you followed me sooner.

 

[TigerGrowls]

Listen to this. This is the problem Trump faces on housing. If you drop the price of homes far enough it will destroy the economy. If you dont drop the price of homes they remain unaffordable. This is the needle that Trump must thread. He has to avoid a 2007 great recession caused by falling home prices while increasing the affordability of homes.

Home builders aren't going to build more homes if they are losing money. Trump can't force them to build homes.

This is where thinking outside the box comes in play and things like the 50 year mortgage, interest rate cuts, lower down-payments, salt taxes etc get proposed.

With deportations and the decline of the boomer generation from old age, supply will be increasing. Prices will come down. The trick is not to allow them to go into a free fall and keep demand high enough to soak up a great deal of that supply.