Wilson takes UGA DL job.*
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Jones said he's not going anywhere else, and he's had to basically turn his phone off. We are going to get Jones, unless we really **** something up between now and February. We as a school discovered him, it wasn't just Wilson. Wilson's gonna be calling from Georgia, but the kid is already a State fan and has turned the phone off. We just need to get someone in there he can talk to, and we're good.
Y'all quit being a bunch of pussies like usual.
Y'all quit being a bunch of pussies like usual.
I liked Coach Wilson
and hate to hear he is leaving Mississippi State. Not sure if it is true, but I recall reading that Diaz tried to lure Coach Wilson to Texas, but Chris stayed with Mullen at State. That was worth a million style points with me. Still, as much as he seemed to be a great guy, I think Coach Wilson was in over his head as a DC in the SEC. He simply didn't get the job done. If he had, he would still be our DC, looking at a probable raise, or he would have been hired away as some other program's DC. As it stands, he is taking a perceived demotion or at best a lateral career move. I wish him well. It's not the end of the world for him or our program.
Now, is Dan Mullen willing to look in the mirror and at Les K? Our offense sucked arse more than our defense did on more than a few fall Saturdays this season. Changes need to be made there as well.
and hate to hear he is leaving Mississippi State. Not sure if it is true, but I recall reading that Diaz tried to lure Coach Wilson to Texas, but Chris stayed with Mullen at State. That was worth a million style points with me. Still, as much as he seemed to be a great guy, I think Coach Wilson was in over his head as a DC in the SEC. He simply didn't get the job done. If he had, he would still be our DC, looking at a probable raise, or he would have been hired away as some other program's DC. As it stands, he is taking a perceived demotion or at best a lateral career move. I wish him well. It's not the end of the world for him or our program.
Now, is Dan Mullen willing to look in the mirror and at Les K? Our offense sucked arse more than our defense did on more than a few fall Saturdays this season. Changes need to be made there as well.
Actually I do. What part is incorrect?
Fact on Mullen blabbing through twitter.
Fact on Mullen crushing him in front of all.
If you don't think Wilson wanted out you are an idiot.
I'm fine with him being out, game days hopefully it's not a big loss. Recruiting it will depend.
I personally didn't want to lose him yet. Whether we upgraded or not is a crapshoot.
Basically everything.
Link? Oh, you made that up didn't you?
Link? Made that one up too. Mullen held him to no higher standard than the rest of our coaches. The fact that Chris couldn't live up to them speaks volumes about him -- not Mullen. The fact that Chris couldn't take 2 5*s and 2 4*s and make an(even decent) DL out of it said all we need to know this year. There was no creativity. No stunting. No delay blitzes. No nothing. And it extended from his DL to his entire defense. Wanna know why we looked defeated? It's because the dumb *** scheme kept the linebackers deep, with a DL that couldn't get ANY push with our 2 stars being double teamed and the other 2 being single blocked... and gave up 5 yards on every run play. Meanwhile in Oxford, they were taking a 250lb FRESHMAN NOSE tackle that we literally didn't answer calls from in January and a talented linebacker that was stuck playing DE and shoving it up people's ***... Yeah, they gave up a few more points than us with half the talent...but literally had DOUBLE the TFL and Sacks that we did.
I was not in favor of firing him. I thought he could fix these issues -- and thought he deserved to be given that chance. Obviously, Mullen had quietly given him that chance throughout the year and his demands hadn't been met. Boo f'n hoo. In all honesty, WHAT had Chris Wilson shown us that we couldn't live without? Pernell McPhee was labeled "the steal of the draft"... what did he really show us in college? A good college player. Nothing more. What about Fletcher Cox? We knew he was good. He was a workout/combine FREAK -- that's how he jumped into the first round(graded as 2nd-3rd rd). Certainly not his collegiate production. Look at him vs other first round DTs. His numbers were not all that great -- and one of the biggest problems he had coming out was his technique and how raw he was. How many times do we have to hear that before we believe it? What about Boyd this year? Seemed like a total waste of talent to me -- if we are being honest. That was a guy that had a ONE ROUND WORSE draft grade than Fletcher Cox last year -- with JUST as good of production(actually better numbers overall). Well, what happened? NO VISIBLE IMPROVEMENT. Don't even get me started on how we've wasted Eulls and PJ Jones thusfar...
Of course he did. Good luck to him at UGA -- in a 3-4 scheme that's loaded with talent. Hope he repairs his image there. That's really all I can say about it. I'm fine with it. Coaching wise, it is not a big loss to me at this point. Not based on what I saw on the field. Recruiting? Could hurt us. The ONLY recruit he's affecting at this point is Chris Jones -- and by all accounts, he seems fine with this move. Maybe Daniel or Carr potentially -- but those two are far from a given at this point. Had this happened last year with Quay, James, Jefferson, etc in the balance, yes, it could have been a disaster. This is the best possible year for this to happen -- when really only one elite DL hangs in the balance. Every other year almost, we will be chasing 3 or 4 of them. Wilson missing on Hooks and Za'Darius definitely did him no favors as well. We lost him. He's a decent/good DL coach -- that will be judged by the amount of success his successor has. I wish him the best.
I trust Mullen to make another grand slam hire in the vein of Brewster. With the Freeze hire at OM and the traction he's building, Mullen's career at MSU could VERY well depend on these next 2-3 coaching hires in a huge way...
Yep. That's all there is to it. During the season most were pissed and wanted him gone. It happened, be happy.
Another great post engie. As stated in a previous thread I called this one about 3 days ago and to some extent agree with you. Well actually mostly agree. I've said for months that he WAS a good DL coach....not necessarily a GREAT DL coach. I defended his coaching all year. The fact that people attacked his credibility (in coaching fundamentals) is absolutely ridiculous. But MORE could've been done to improve things on our defense. I wish him all the best, I know for a fact he's a good guy and a heck of a recruiter even though he missed on a few guys. Good observation LSD engie, there's to believing Dan'll get us a great DL coach.
Opposing OL coaches must be salivating...
...if I was a coach game-planning for UGA in 2013, I would being getting fired up about the lazy, poorly coached UGA DL I am going to face.
...if I was a coach game-planning for UGA in 2013, I would being getting fired up about the lazy, poorly coached UGA DL I am going to face.
Agree on all your points on Wilson. Just seemed in over his head as a dc.
A&M is the game I'm referring to regarding Mullen being too public. Mullen will never chew Hevesy like that.
Announcing play calling change through twitter before bowl game is pointless. And comes across as a dick move.
A&M is the game I'm referring to regarding Mullen being too public. Mullen will never chew Hevesy like that.
Announcing play calling change through twitter before bowl game is pointless. And comes across as a dick move.
Wilson stayed because he got 17ing promoted.
He didn't stay because he loved Msu or Mullen. He stayed because it was a better career move for him. Some of you people kill me with this loyalty ****. There are very few coaches that are loyal to a school. they are going to do what's best for their family and for their own best interest.
He didn't stay because he loved Msu or Mullen. He stayed because it was a better career move for him. Some of you people kill me with this loyalty ****. There are very few coaches that are loyal to a school. they are going to do what's best for their family and for their own best interest.
Spot on, Engie.....
I asked yesterday, and I as aGAIN today: Why does everyone think Wilson was some stellar DL coach? I never saw our DL utilize anything more than a bull rush in terms of technique. No swim move, no club, no rip. If they executed a spin move, it was pure instinct. Pretty much every highly rated DL we've had under Wilson has underperformed badly. I'm far from sad to see him go.
I asked yesterday, and I as aGAIN today: Why does everyone think Wilson was some stellar DL coach? I never saw our DL utilize anything more than a bull rush in terms of technique. No swim move, no club, no rip. If they executed a spin move, it was pure instinct. Pretty much every highly rated DL we've had under Wilson has underperformed badly. I'm far from sad to see him go.
The suggestion that our offense sucked worse than the defense is laughably absurd. That statement puts the rest of the post in context.
So sorry that my post doesn't meet your approval. I feel so unworthy now. I don't know what my lying eyes were showing me with respect to our offensive game plan for much of the year. Oh, insert some gratuitous profanity or sexual innuendo here for the pure interwebs coolness factor.
It did. And the offense has been the worse overall unit for 3 of the 4 years now -- arguably all 4.
The difference is in perspective. We've never seen a "good" offense at MSU -- not in terms of statistical comparison with the rest of the country anyway. We've seen quite a few DOMINANT defenses though. Thus, our expectations are different on the defensive side -- and that is unfair to an extent.
Our offense was better in 2010 than it was in 2012- and all we heard in 2010 was that the offense sucked and had to get better. Amazing what throwing a few TD passes against weak teams will do to perceptions
No, what's amazing is that you were the main one saying our OC was doing nothing but "running Mullen's offense"....so does that mean we should fire Mullen since you and engie claim it was worse than the D?
Our defense sucked this year, our offense sucked this year. Most agree that D sucked worse than O. Obviously Mullen agreed too based on the Wilson/Collins move.
And that's been a complaint with Mullen the whole time -- that he's holding his defensive staff to a different set of standards than his offensive staff. I'm glad he's holding the defensive staff in the fire. He needs to do it more on offense -- which I still believe we will see him end up doing this year before all is said and done.
If "most agree" -- then most are wrong.
2012, 2011, 2010, 2009
Scoring O: #60, #72, #48, #72
Scoring D: #34, #16, #21, #71
Our Scoring Defense has been better than our Scoring Offense in ALL 4 of Dan Mullen's years here -- even the shittastic Torbush D. Our average ranking in scoring offense is #63 -- putting us in the lower half of the country in that regard -- while scoring D averaged #33 -- good for the top 25% in the country.
Rush O: #84, #38, #16, #9
Rush D: #69, #61, #15, #62
Our Rush O and Rush D numbers are split. So, they are an equal problem. However, the dropoff in rush O over EVERY SINGLE year that Mullen's been here is pretty disconcerting. Overall, both have been pretty average. Also, for as much **** as Wilson caught about our rush D being crap this year(and rightly so), are we supposed to accept and overlook the rush O being EVEN WORSE statistically?
Pass O: #59, #94, #87, #113
Pass D: #46, #27, #91, #64
Pass D is better than pass O in 3 of 4 years. Would be all 4 if our pass D wouldn't have been quite THAT horrific under Diaz. Look at those numbers. Our BEST year in pass offense(this year) was NATIONALLY AVERAGE. Seriously. This "prolific" passing offense ranked #59 out of 124 FBS teams. Sorry -- but that is not satisfactory. If we are firing a DC for putting out a #34 scoring D, we've also got to SERIOUSLY look at what we're doing on the offensive side.
Can't base everything on stats Engie. You should know that.
Where's the stat that shows how many times we played zone while having two NFL corners? Or the one showing how many times we blitzed even though our d-line got zero pressure? If you know football, then you know that stats can't tell the whole story.
i agree that the O was bad, and that we should have made some changes. But let's not try and sugar coat the absolute shittyness of our D this year. Not just statistically, but scheme, tackling, aggressiveness, etc. By the way, how much does it alter your offensive strategy against an A&M or Bama, if you're down 21-0 after 3 series?
If you want to blame Les and Dan, fine, but their biggest problem is recruiting. We have no playmakers on offense, nor has Les and Dan found a way to get to the ones we DO have. Defensively, that excuse isn't there. We have tons of talent on that side of the ball this year, and we STILL couldn't stop anybody. Stats don't show that either by the way.
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Wilson was in over his head as a DC but he wasn't even a good DL coach. He was average at best. Our technique this year was horrible. I will say this though, a Chris Wilson coached DL could dominate in a game of patty cake..
The stats tell us a whole hell of a lot. Ignoring them is ridiculous. No, they can't "tell the whole story"... but they show an obvious trend of ****** offense over FOUR YEARS! To me, that's a hell of a lot more significant statistically than a single bad year on defense.
Of ALL the bitching about our rush defense -- which was shittastic this year -- our rush OFFENSE was EVEN WORSE. Explain that to me? I've said ALL ALONG that the offense was the bigger problem for us. I can take it a step further and prove that to you on another level, if you would like. Yes, we had problems on defense. We HAVE bigger problems on offense. Why is it so damn hard for MSU fans to see and admit this?
To me
The level of effort and organization was better on the offensive side of the ball. And I think that's why most people were more upset with the defense. I know for me personally, I don't tolerate lack of effort and disorganization very well- especially when it's an every game issue. I feel at the very least, no matter what your talent level is, you can play hard and you can line up correctly. Football teams with a winning culture do that.
While the play-calling is certainly questionable, we run the correct routes for the most part, we block correctly, other than the Gator and Egg Bowl, we didn't turn it over a lot, and we were able to run the ball at times. On defense, we never tried to adjust very often it looked like and then you had people like Nikoe over God knows where peeing in the bushes.
Of course, because there are issues on the offensive side of the ball, changes must be made there as well. Because there is no doubt the play selection and how we use our personnel has got to get better if we are going to get past 70 in the country.
The level of effort and organization was better on the offensive side of the ball. And I think that's why most people were more upset with the defense. I know for me personally, I don't tolerate lack of effort and disorganization very well- especially when it's an every game issue. I feel at the very least, no matter what your talent level is, you can play hard and you can line up correctly. Football teams with a winning culture do that.
While the play-calling is certainly questionable, we run the correct routes for the most part, we block correctly, other than the Gator and Egg Bowl, we didn't turn it over a lot, and we were able to run the ball at times. On defense, we never tried to adjust very often it looked like and then you had people like Nikoe over God knows where peeing in the bushes.
Of course, because there are issues on the offensive side of the ball, changes must be made there as well. Because there is no doubt the play selection and how we use our personnel has got to get better if we are going to get past 70 in the country.
That's what you aren't comprehending....we all agree that the O was bad. The D was ****** too. With more talent on Defense too! We changed scheme on O and threw it a ton more (which explains the rush offense, but you don't want to throw pass attempt stats in there because it would go against your argument). Why did we? Because we had a single threat QB, not a dual threat. Wilson didn't have ANY excuses.
I'm not saying that makes a ****** offense "okay"...I'm just saying when you consider everything from scheme, to talent, to personnel, Wilson did a worse job, and had less excuses to fall back on on top of that.
They were both bad, but you can always compete with a strong D. We had all of the pieces in place, including an offense that didn't turn it over, but the D didn't deliver. You talk about "fair"...well you have to have a solid D in the SEC or you will not have a chance. Many SEC powers have far better D than O. It's the way life in the SEC works. Our offense didn't win a bunch of games, but they didn't lose them either. Our D on the other hand, couldn't stop Troy among pretty much everyone else.
ETA: Nobody said "ignore" the stats, Engie. But I can show you time of possession in an Oregon game and most would assume Oregon was dominated....they may have just scored on a ton of quick drives. You can't ignore what you see in game and just rely on stats.
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I 100% agree. This is a better explanation of what I've been trying to tell Engie. Stats don't show the intangibles Todd just described. Some, but not all.
Ok. So, my point is -- FIX them both.
We've been bad on defense twice. Both times, we basically fired the DC. We also basically fired the position coach for the best position group we had this year -- a move that's going to hurt our recruiting class far worse than the loss of Wilson did. I'm not disagreeing with the move based on what I've heard was happening behind the scenes. But we need to understand that context.
We've been bad on offense 4 times in a row. We've had full staff continuity on that side at every position other than WR coach -- without letting a single person go due to underperformance in their job. I find that part unacceptable -- given the higher standards the guys on the other side of the ball have been held to.
Not ok with Sallach @ TE. Not ok with Koenning as a playcaller--fine with him as a qb coach. Like Brewster thusfar. Neutral on Knox and Hevesy -- both of which need to show me something next year. Knox's RB position has gone (in average yards/rush) from #16 in 2009, to #40 in 2010, to #40 in 2011, to #58 in 2012. That is at least somewhat concerning to me.
Mullen needs an OC in the vein of the guy at Troy -- or another pass-first spread guy to contrast their styles together. This is better for us both in the short term and long term. If we keep Koenning, Mullen ABSOLUTELY HAS to take over playcalling duty.
If we're going to FIX the team, let's fix the team... Not just tweak on one side while holding onto something that isn't working on the other side.
We've been bad on defense twice. Both times, we basically fired the DC. We also basically fired the position coach for the best position group we had this year -- a move that's going to hurt our recruiting class far worse than the loss of Wilson did. I'm not disagreeing with the move based on what I've heard was happening behind the scenes. But we need to understand that context.
We've been bad on offense 4 times in a row. We've had full staff continuity on that side at every position other than WR coach -- without letting a single person go due to underperformance in their job. I find that part unacceptable -- given the higher standards the guys on the other side of the ball have been held to.
Not ok with Sallach @ TE. Not ok with Koenning as a playcaller--fine with him as a qb coach. Like Brewster thusfar. Neutral on Knox and Hevesy -- both of which need to show me something next year. Knox's RB position has gone (in average yards/rush) from #16 in 2009, to #40 in 2010, to #40 in 2011, to #58 in 2012. That is at least somewhat concerning to me.
Mullen needs an OC in the vein of the guy at Troy -- or another pass-first spread guy to contrast their styles together. This is better for us both in the short term and long term. If we keep Koenning, Mullen ABSOLUTELY HAS to take over playcalling duty.
If we're going to FIX the team, let's fix the team... Not just tweak on one side while holding onto something that isn't working on the other side.
Agree completely. And the RB situation concerns me as well. I hope it has more to do with our pass heavy offense this year, than Knox...but we'll see. No reason we shouldn't take a step up in the run game next year with our entire OL and RB core returning.
I think a LOT of it had to do with the fact that we used Perkins too much as an every down back and not enough Robinson/Griffen. I think a lot of it also had to do with the types of plays we called both passing and running. Deeper routes are lower percentage routes, which means more incompletions, which means you get behind the sticks more. That's why we should have run more intermediate routes such as slants and more screens- so that we could use that to set up the run and not get us in 2nd and 10 all the time where the defense is probably going to think- "well, they're probably going to run here because they don't want to get into third and 10, so we'll just get them into 3rd and 8 which isn't a whole lot better." And that's even easier to defend when we ran maybe one screen a game, and never to the backs.
And before anyone says it - yep, at least we line up right.
Same ****, different scheme. It's like the indians only allow us three pieces of paper to write our entire 17ing offense on no matter who is coaching us.