With "Dayton" potentially on the table again.....just want to get officially on record again

[NickRU714]

Don't want to clutter up other theards anymore.

NCAA Basketball Tournament is the worst designed tournament in possibly the entire world.
It's nearly indisputable.

What other sport gives a 1st round bye to a lower seeded team than a higher seeded team?
A potential 11 or 12 seed is going to have to play an extra game while a lower seeded team (13, 14, 15 or 16) does not.
There is literally no rational justification for that. Except to rig the tournament for "excitement" or other non-athletic reasons (sympathy for lower conferences).

Have no problem with AQs or including lower conference teams. Include all the AQs you want. But that only gets you into the tournament -shouldn't also get you a bye.
Want to make AQ = Bye: Seed them higher than all the "wildcard teams". Then it makes sense for the lowest seeded teams to play in the 1st round.
Make Rutgers/PSU a 16 seed if they are last into the tournament.
You can't just manipulate seedings for no reason. It's crazy.

Name one non-NCAA tournament in the world that does this.
I've yet to get a response from anyone.

 

[RUwishbone]

It is what it is

 

[bac2therac]

i love it this way because i dont want to watch 16 seeds play, i like the idea of the bubble thing mattering and matching those last at large teams

very simple, the other schools are 16s...and i think the ncaa should stop making the 16s play and actually take the last 8 in the field and make them play.

 

[NewJerseyHawk]

There are 4 16 seeds playing for the right to get a 1 seed.

There are 2 extra "11 seeds", with the right to play a 6 seed.

Are you better off in a 1-bid league, where you are almost locked into a 12 to 15 seed??

It's now extremely fair to have the field expanded, essentially to 66 teams.

The 2 extra games where you have 2 16s playing each other is something that allows every conference a shot at their day in the spotlight. I don't have a problem with it.

The overall item that keeps getting missed is how one 11 seed is separated from another 11 seed. The game last year where Michigan as an 11 played 6 seed Colorado State was an absolute joke. While RU and ND battled until midnight ET in Dayton on a Wednesday night and would have had to fly to San Diego overnight to play Alabama at 5ET on Friday afternoon.

If you are an 11 seed in that instance, the distance to your next game, even if you win, is the crime or crooked aspect of the seeding process....and YES, they're looking for ratings on Tuesday and Wednesday nights before the 16 game Thursday and 16 game Friday.

 

[NickRU714]

i love it this way because i dont want to watch 16 seeds play, i like the idea of the bubble thing mattering and matching those last at large teams

very simple, the other schools are 16s...and i think the ncaa should stop making the 16s play and actually take the last 8 in the field and make them play.

None of that should really matter. Your talking about TV viewing experience.

Why are the other schools 16s? Becuase they are the worst teams. Sorry it's boring but that doesn't really matter for sports tournaments. The worst teams play the most games. Unless you make a qualifier - such as AQ means avoid 1st round - like many other sports do (MLB, NFL).

Continue to make the bubble matter - but make them 16 seeds then.
Is there less excitement if Rutgers/PSU has a 16 next to their name when playing in Dayton?

 

[FinalFourOrBust_rivals142702]

One of the dumbest thing I’ve ever read

 

[erdelyaj]

I don’t understand why a 12 seed at large doesn’t have to play in Dayton while an 11 seed does. Am I missing something?

 

[wicker]

Don't want to clutter up other theards anymore.

NCAA Basketball Tournament is the worst designed tournament in possibly the entire world.
It's nearly indisputable.

What other sport gives a 1st round bye to a lower seeded team than a higher seeded team?
A potential 11 or 12 seed is going to have to play an extra game while a lower seeded team (13, 14, 15 or 16) does not.
There is literally no rational justification for that. Except to rig the tournament for "excitement" or other non-athletic reasons (sympathy for lower conferences).

Have no problem with AQs or including lower conference teams. Include all the AQs you want. But that only gets you into the tournament -shouldn't also get you a bye.
Want to make AQ = Bye: Seed them higher than all the "wildcard teams". Then it makes sense for the lowest seeded teams to play in the 1st round.
Make Rutgers/PSU a 16 seed if they are last into the tournament.
You can't just manipulate seedings for no reason. It's crazy.

Name one non-NCAA tournament in the world that does this.
I've yet to get a response from anyone.

The Dayton games involve teams that barely got in. Seems fair that if you made it in largely due to expansion rather than merit you have to play one more game.

And it is irrelevant that this format is unique to this tournament. When it goes to 128 we won't have this argument

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

OP has been watching too much Immanueal Quickley and Obi Toppin

 

[RUtrumpet92_rivals498139]

And it is irrelevant that this format is unique to this tournament. When it goes to 128 we won't have this argument

How boring would this week be in contrast if the field was 128 teams... ugh...

 

[Plum Street]

Omg . This is a great tournament and format ! Pretty much everyone knows this

 

[NickRU714]

OP has been watching too much Immanueal Quickley and Obi Toppin

We've been down this road. I can't watch them!! no MSG on Xfinity!
I've been stuck with my exciting (but ultimately doomed) Nets.
Not a Knicks fan but much better team than the Nets now. Would love to watch IQ and Brunson (is Toppin even playing?)

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

My uSB is having trouble connecting to my phone so the last few days on my 10 minute drive to work I have had WFAN on. Getting my fill of the Nba

 

[NickRU714]

The Dayton games involve teams that barely got in. Seems fair that if you made it in largely due to expansion rather than merit you have to play one more game.

And it is irrelevant that this format is unique to this tournament. When it goes to 128 we won't have this argument

Who got in on more merit?
Potential 11 seed Rutgers or 15 seed Hofstra (for example).

If Hofstra got in on more merit than Rutgers - winning their conference - then why are they seeded below Rutgers/PSU?
If conference championship trumps full season resume then why are they seeded lower?

The seeds determine your merit. Otherwise, why are their seedings?

 

[bac2therac]

because their schedules are trash thats why...there is no reason to put small schools as 12s and Rutgers as 16s

its flat out stupid and you are in the less than 1% minority on this

 

[koko2315]

can't be seeding the play ins that low
Ask Kansas who they want...Wofford or the winner of PSU/NC State

 

[NickRU714]

because their schedules are trash thats why...there is no reason to put small schools as 12s and Rutgers as 16s

its flat out stupid and you are in the less than 1% minority on this

If their schedules are trash and thye are the worst teams - then why don't they play in 1st round?

I'm fine Rutgers as a 12. But then don't play in the 1st round.

 

[bac2therac]

can't be seeding the play ins that low
Ask Kansas who they want...Wofford or the winner of PSU/NC State

exactly his suggestion is absurd and every year he posts this to troll

 

[NickRU714]

can't be seeding the play ins that low
Ask Kansas who they want...Wofford or the winner of PSU/NC State

Who cares what Kansas wants.
Why can't play-ins be seeded that low? They didn't win an AQ. Every other sport makes play-ins play more than AQs.

 

[bac2therac]

If their schedules are trash and thye are the worst teams - then why don't they play in 1st round?

I'm fine Rutgers as a 12. But then don't play in the 1st round.

because its putting the 4 teams that barely got into the tourney..very deserving..everyone loves it..bubble talk all year. go root for another sport then

 

[bac2therac]

Who cares what Kansas wants.
Why can't play-ins be seeded that low? They didn't win an AQ. Every other sport makes play-ins play more than AQs.

every sport doesnt have a ridiculous difference in talent from the top conferences and the worst conferences

 

[NickRU714]

exactly his suggestion is absurd and every year he posts this to troll

Name another sport or tournament then.
Vikings were a trash 4 seed. But they won their conference so they get a higher seed than all play-ins.

If the Vikings were seeded 7 but "get a home game because they won an AQ" would make zero sense.

 

[kcg88]

The rationale is that the tournament expanded from 64 to 65 to accommodate the formation of the Mountain West. Before that there were 30 automatic bids and 34 at large bids. Well, the mere fact a new conference was created isn't a good reason to remove an at-large bid... otherwise there'd be nothing stopping 8 of the worst teams in the country from forming a conference and guaranteeing one of them gets in. So that's why that happened.

The expansion to 68 was partially a gimmick but also partially because there were now many more teams. In 1986 there were 283 D-1 schools. By 2011 there were 345. So it's not really ridiculous, if you think about it, to expand the field in light of that.

The play-in games are a balance between the tradition of the tournament including all conference champions and an acknowledgement that, yes, the 16 seeds are the dregs. Just because you feel that balance is wrong does not mean that everybody else feels that way, or should feel that way.

 

[bac2therac]

nfl? no comparison

 

[kcg88]

I'd liken it to a single-season version of the English soccer system. Through promotion and relegation technically even a seventh-level club could rise up and win the EPL one day. College basketball offers that same sort of structure but just makes it so that every year, technically, an NEC team could win the title.

 

[DHajekRC84]

They've created 4 more opportunities for the higher established league teams to get in. I guess if they don't like having to play-in then they could go back to 64 and remove the "problem". ?

 

[ScarletDave]

Because the 16 seeds won their conference tournament and the 11 seeds have inexcusable losses

 

[NickRU714]

The rationale is that the tournament expanded from 64 to 65 to accommodate the formation of the Mountain West. Before that there were 30 automatic bids and 34 at large bids. Well, the mere fact a new conference was created isn't a good reason to remove an at-large bid... otherwise there'd be nothing stopping 8 of the worst teams in the country from forming a conference and guaranteeing one of them gets in. So that's why that happened.

The expansion to 68 was partially a gimmick but also partially because there were now many more teams. In 1986 there were 283 D-1 schools. By 2011 there were 345. So it's not really ridiculous, if you think about it, to expand the field in light of that.

The play-in games are a balance between the tradition of the tournament including all conference champions and an acknowledgement that, yes, the 16 seeds are the dregs. Just because you feel that balance is wrong does not mean that everybody else feels that way, or should feel that way.

I feel?
I don't feel anything.
It's simple numbers.

11 seed > 13,14,14,15,16 seed
Here's the "complicated part": Lower seeds shouldn't get advantages over higher seeds.
But sure it's feelings.

 

[needmorecowbell]

Don't want to clutter up other theards anymore.

NCAA Basketball Tournament is the worst designed tournament in possibly the entire world.
It's nearly indisputable.

What other sport gives a 1st round bye to a lower seeded team than a higher seeded team?
A potential 11 or 12 seed is going to have to play an extra game while a lower seeded team (13, 14, 15 or 16) does not.
There is literally no rational justification for that. Except to rig the tournament for "excitement" or other non-athletic reasons (sympathy for lower conferences).

Have no problem with AQs or including lower conference teams. Include all the AQs you want. But that only gets you into the tournament -shouldn't also get you a bye.
Want to make AQ = Bye: Seed them higher than all the "wildcard teams". Then it makes sense for the lowest seeded teams to play in the 1st round.
Make Rutgers/PSU a 16 seed if they are last into the tournament.
You can't just manipulate seedings for no reason. It's crazy.

Name one non-NCAA tournament in the world that does this.
I've yet to get a response from anyone.

Yet it’s the best tournament hands down.

 

[NickRU714]

Because the 16 seeds won their conference tournament and the 11 seeds have inexcusable losses

None of that matters once seeds are given.

If you want to punish teams for not winning their conference tournament and inexcusable losses - factor that into the seeding. No problem with that. But reflect it in the seeding.

 

[Rhuarc]

because its putting the 4 teams that barely got into the tourney..very deserving..everyone loves it..bubble talk all year. go root for another sport then

I enjoyed watching the games last night so much. That experience is one of the best things about bubble games. It was like watching the NFL during the last week to see who gets into the playoffs.

 

[Scarlet Blind_rivals]

Honestly, I think they could expand to 72 and make all 11 seeds(8 teams) and all 16 seeds(8 teams) as a permanent thing. There are always one or two more teams each year that belongs in a play in from the 15 line that have no chance to beat a 1 or 2, but it will stay this way because 11-32 is 22 conferences and seeds 12-16 = 22 spots so it won't happen unless more conferences magically pop up. The numbers just make sense.

 

[NickRU714]

because its putting the 4 teams that barely got into the tourney..very deserving..everyone loves it..bubble talk all year. go root for another sport then

Appropriately seeding and running the tournament correctly has zero effect "bubble talk" or anything else.
All it does is potentially make the 1st round less exciting (all 16s seeds). Which again - doesn't matter except for TV viewers. And everyone loves when sports cater to TV.

If Rutgers/PSU/ASU are competing for a 16/15 seed v. 11/10 seed and missing Dayton - no one cares?
If potential 15 seed Hofstra has to maybe play in the 1st round they aren't going to try as hard?

Running the tournament correctly has zero impact on any of that.

 

[bac2therac]

lol

 

[NickRU714]

No answer?

What changes if the worst 8 teams in the field play in the 1st round to be the 4 #16 seeds?

What changes if the "last 8 in" play in the 1st round to be the 4 #16 seeds?

If the conference discrepancy is so bad then don't give those 8 bottom teams a bye.

 

[Plum Street]

No answer?

What changes if the worst 8 teams in the field play in the 1st round to be the 4 #16 seeds?

What changes if the "last 8 in" play in the 1st round to be the 4 #16 seeds?

If the conference discrepancy is so bad then don't give those 8 bottom teams a bye.

Omg man really ?? Rutgers is playing one of its biggest games in years, while you’re on here arguing about the ncaa tournament format . What is wrong ?? Why even be a fan if this is what you do?

 

[bac2therac]

No answer?

What changes if the worst 8 teams in the field play in the 1st round to be the 4 #16 seeds?

What changes if the "last 8 in" play in the 1st round to be the 4 #16 seeds?

If the conference discrepancy is so bad then don't give those 8 bottom teams a bye.

Lol

 

[NickRU714]

Omg man really ?? Rutgers is playing one of its biggest games in years, while you’re on here arguing about the ncaa tournament format . What is wrong ?? Why even be a fan if this is what you do?

Actually that was before the game actually started.
And now your responding during the game.

Note - this is during the timeout after Simpsons foul call. Want make sure the timing of my posts meets your "fan criteria".

 

[GORU2014]

It’s pretty universally regarded as the best tournament in all of sports

 

[-RUFAN4LIFE-]

Don't want to clutter up other theards anymore.

NCAA Basketball Tournament is the worst designed tournament in possibly the entire world.
It's nearly indisputable.

What other sport gives a 1st round bye to a lower seeded team than a higher seeded team?
A potential 11 or 12 seed is going to have to play an extra game while a lower seeded team (13, 14, 15 or 16) does not.
There is literally no rational justification for that. Except to rig the tournament for "excitement" or other non-athletic reasons (sympathy for lower conferences).

Have no problem with AQs or including lower conference teams. Include all the AQs you want. But that only gets you into the tournament -shouldn't also get you a bye.
Want to make AQ = Bye: Seed them higher than all the "wildcard teams". Then it makes sense for the lowest seeded teams to play in the 1st round.
Make Rutgers/PSU a 16 seed if they are last into the tournament.
You can't just manipulate seedings for no reason. It's crazy.

Name one non-NCAA tournament in the world that does this.
I've yet to get a response from anyone.

Every year prior to this format being installed there were teams screaming they had equivalent or better resumes than teams that got selected in the 8-12 seed range. These games were created, partly with TV in mind, to pit those teams against each other for the right to play in the 64 team field.

Most of those small conference AQ teams are not in this conversation. It's always high major/mid major teams.

You may be the only one here that wants to Southwest East Bumblefck vs Northwest Seminary College instead of a game like Notre Dame vs Rutgers.

The fans benefit from this format because the games are way more exciting than watching bad 16 seeds. But you must like watching paint dry if you can't get this...lol.