Without injuries- this team would have been a top half SEC team
- Thread starter Coach34
- Start date
May be top half anyway...
...the SEC is crappy enough this year that this squad could finish 7th in the SEC. Once they get Lewis back it will get interesting.
...the SEC is crappy enough this year that this squad could finish 7th in the SEC. Once they get Lewis back it will get interesting.
He would have fit Ray's style perfectly. Duke will win a NC with Hood... this year and next.
That pre-madonna would be locker room poison...
..Ray has instilled a "us against the world" attitude in this squad. When you have some flashy hotshot constantly acting like an idiot, that flavor of team unity goes out the window.
..Ray has instilled a "us against the world" attitude in this squad. When you have some flashy hotshot constantly acting like an idiot, that flavor of team unity goes out the window.
R Hood is not like that....
he did what he thinks is best for him and has been doing extremely well at Duke. He is absolutely not the type young man who is a flashy hotshot who acts like an idiot. I wish he had stayed with us, but he didn't. Now he is learning under Coach K and there is nothing wrong with that.
he did what he thinks is best for him and has been doing extremely well at Duke. He is absolutely not the type young man who is a flashy hotshot who acts like an idiot. I wish he had stayed with us, but he didn't. Now he is learning under Coach K and there is nothing wrong with that.
I really see very little difference....
in what we are trying to do now to what Stansbury did his first 8-10 years.
in what we are trying to do now to what Stansbury did his first 8-10 years.
Other than the actual coaching part
you know the jumping in and out of defenses, keeping the other team off balance, etc... you are right. Stansbury did in fact have teams early on that played hard. Even disagreeing with the way he actually coached, I never really had anything to complain about from his teams until he lost the players.
you know the jumping in and out of defenses, keeping the other team off balance, etc... you are right. Stansbury did in fact have teams early on that played hard. Even disagreeing with the way he actually coached, I never really had anything to complain about from his teams until he lost the players.
There are some similarities between Ray and Stansbury pre-Dee and Renardo, but Ray is definitely more of a no-nonsense guy.
If he can recruit, he can build something special here. The SEC is only getting worse at basketball, so that will help a good bit.
If he can recruit, he can build something special here. The SEC is only getting worse at basketball, so that will help a good bit.
You arent looking very hard. We are coached better now and it isnt close. Effort-wise Stansbury did have some teams that were similar though earlier in his career- but as far as actuall coaching- no.
That doesn't make him a locker room-poisoning pre-madonna. Fletcher Cox did what was best for him by leaving early for the draft; does that mean he was a cancer? If an athlete believes his future or interests are jeopardized by remaining in a given situation, you can't blame him for leaving it, no matter how much it hurts. It's not necessarily a reflection on character.
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Like what?
People talking about similarities that I simply do not see -- outside of Brandon Vincent's career, which was obviously a player-led thing more than a coaching thing.
I saw 5 things today that we didn't see in 14 years from Stansbury.
1) Actual drawn up inbounds plays -- which led to at least 2 easy buckets.
2) Constant change of defenses. Stans used a 1-3-1 with Vincent ONLY. He rarely, RARELY used a 2-3 either -- even when we were getting pick and rolled to DEATH in man--and he certainly didn't make the changes quickly or often. At most once a game.
3) Beating a zone. Dribble, drive, dish. Stans never taught this -- and that's why zones always gave us 14 kinds of hell.
4) Intelligent substitution patterns. Nuf said. Along with smart use of time outs.
5) Changing a gameplan on the fly to shut down the other team's hot hand. We completely took Caldwell-Pope out of the game halfway through the first half. Stans NEVER did this -- and single players would OFTEN put together career days and absolutely dagger us -- as this EXACT player did to us twice last year as a freshman.
People don't realize -- we had a 3 game losing streak to UGA teams that are EVERY BIT as bad as the one we just beat in Athens. Why? Because Mark Fox is a crappy recruiter, but an excellent coach. He consistently beat us with superior gameplanning before -- an advantage he no longer enjoys.
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There are many things I can't and won't disclose
However, I will say that Bost did an excellent job of turning the team against the coaching staff, administration, and university. It produced a fragmented and feuding team. I've been claiming this for a while. Dawgstudent will back me up because he and I went back and forth when I claimed Benock was better than Bost. I knew the destruction that Bost was causing in the locker room and dorm. Bost is possibly my least favorite player over the last few years because he helped set the program back. Stansbury should have nipped it in the bud but he didn't. He was an absolute cancer and destructive force.
However, I will say that Bost did an excellent job of turning the team against the coaching staff, administration, and university. It produced a fragmented and feuding team. I've been claiming this for a while. Dawgstudent will back me up because he and I went back and forth when I claimed Benock was better than Bost. I knew the destruction that Bost was causing in the locker room and dorm. Bost is possibly my least favorite player over the last few years because he helped set the program back. Stansbury should have nipped it in the bud but he didn't. He was an absolute cancer and destructive force.
Like Coach34, you are seeing the same things and interpreting them differently. This is most evident from your comments on Branden Vincent. Under Stansbury, except for the past two or three years, MSU was consistently one of the top 3 teams in the conference in defense and rebounding. Branden Vincent played here for two years. Stansbury coached for fourteen. We did those things before Vincent was here and after he left; we led the league in rebounding for about four years in a row after he graduated. That you could try to wrap all of that up and shrug it off as a Brandon Vincent player-led thing is absurd. Brandon Vincent was a good player, but he was a role player, and only for two years.
We are running a motion offense and playing mostly man to man with occasional switches into a zone. That is exactly what Stansbury did. (One point of agreement: Stansbury's substitution patterns were awful.)
We are running a motion offense and playing mostly man to man with occasional switches into a zone. That is exactly what Stansbury did. (One point of agreement: Stansbury's substitution patterns were awful.)
What we are doing on offense now and what we did under Stansbury arent even the same animal. Just because Stansbury called it "motion" doesnt make it motion. We move more on offense than at any time during the Stansbury Era. Our offense has a purpose.
These guys struggle because of talent- but they know what they are supposed to do. We havent had that for since the mid-90's
You must have never worked before. I wouldn't stay at a job where I don't feel I'm maximizing my potential and making the most of what I'm doing. Hood did what was best for him, so what? He didn't leave to go to Troy or something just to go be the star, Hood left a program with a lot of cancers (most of whom left, anyway) and an unproven head coach and a bunch of freshmen and bench players to go play for Duke... one of the top programs in the country with one of the best and most respected coaches in the country. He'd be stupid to stay with Ray if he had an opportunity to better himself under Coach K.
I hate Hood left as much as anyone, but I've been in positions at work where some really good talent left to pursue a better opportunity that fits them better. I hate it, but I don't blame them because I'd do the same damn thing.
I hate Hood left as much as anyone, but I've been in positions at work where some really good talent left to pursue a better opportunity that fits them better. I hate it, but I don't blame them because I'd do the same damn thing.
I think the best description for Bost's character as a team mate is bipolar. Some days he was dragging the effort level up with his force of personality and then some days he was a bigger pouter than Sidney or Augustus. Really hard thing to reconcile to his talent. Wish it could have been more of the former than the latter, but what's done is done.
It's not the same thing. Hood's NBA status won't change based on whether he goes to Duke or MSU. The NBA will find the best talent regardless of where it goes to college.
In fact, Hood would be able to go to the draft this summer if he had stayed and had a good year. Since he has to sit out, he's going to have to wait until at least 2014, so it doesn't seem to be a very good decision for him in the long run. But whatever. 17 him.
In fact, Hood would be able to go to the draft this summer if he had stayed and had a good year. Since he has to sit out, he's going to have to wait until at least 2014, so it doesn't seem to be a very good decision for him in the long run. But whatever. 17 him.
I knew Bost through interactions in class, and I can absolutely believe this. I've heard people close to the program say he had one of the worst attitudes on the team... him and Sidney, both. He was a talented player, but there are very good reasons he wasn't recruited out of college, nor was even considered for an NBA roster.
Disagree. Hood had 2 choices:
1. Stay at an unstable program, going through a lot of change where all the starters left or graduated and continue with a new, unproven head coach and a lot of fresh faces (he did give Ray a chance, too) and he spent all year wishing he had gone somewhere else
2. Go to Duke... one of the most respected programs under the most respected coaches in the country
He chose the latter, which was the best decision for him. I hate he left, but you can't blame him... not after what this team went through last year.
Also, I didn't mention improve his chances to get to the NBA, I meant a better opportunity to better himself. But while we're at it, when is the last time we put a player in the NBA? Not only that, a player who contributed to an NBA roster? When was the last time Duke did that? There are 2 or 3 from duke playing and contributing that were on last years squad. We had Jarvis... but he has been released 3 times... having been a part of a roster for a grand total of 3 weeks of his career. Moultrie was a part of a roster, but never contributed and is now in the D-League. Zimmerman? He was released from a terrible Nets roster. Dampier? 16 years ago. So, yes, you can make the NBA argument, too.
1. Stay at an unstable program, going through a lot of change where all the starters left or graduated and continue with a new, unproven head coach and a lot of fresh faces (he did give Ray a chance, too) and he spent all year wishing he had gone somewhere else
2. Go to Duke... one of the most respected programs under the most respected coaches in the country
He chose the latter, which was the best decision for him. I hate he left, but you can't blame him... not after what this team went through last year.
Also, I didn't mention improve his chances to get to the NBA, I meant a better opportunity to better himself. But while we're at it, when is the last time we put a player in the NBA? Not only that, a player who contributed to an NBA roster? When was the last time Duke did that? There are 2 or 3 from duke playing and contributing that were on last years squad. We had Jarvis... but he has been released 3 times... having been a part of a roster for a grand total of 3 weeks of his career. Moultrie was a part of a roster, but never contributed and is now in the D-League. Zimmerman? He was released from a terrible Nets roster. Dampier? 16 years ago. So, yes, you can make the NBA argument, too.
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Both offense and defense are miles apart
Just because we play man defense much of the time doesn't mean our defensive philosophy is on the same planet as the last regime. We're now covering guys before they reach half court, and playing in their jersey the entire possession. We may not have done that more than 12 possessions total in the past 6 years.
Our offense may be motion, but it's the tempo that sets it apart. Instead of waiting 9.95 seconds to cross the half court line, we're sprinting (yes, the WHOLE team) down the court every time we get the ball, and occasionally even executing set plays.
in other words, you couldn't be more wrong.
Just because we play man defense much of the time doesn't mean our defensive philosophy is on the same planet as the last regime. We're now covering guys before they reach half court, and playing in their jersey the entire possession. We may not have done that more than 12 possessions total in the past 6 years.
Our offense may be motion, but it's the tempo that sets it apart. Instead of waiting 9.95 seconds to cross the half court line, we're sprinting (yes, the WHOLE team) down the court every time we get the ball, and occasionally even executing set plays.
in other words, you couldn't be more wrong.
Bingo. No similarities at all. THIS team is more similar to a Shaka Smart style. Controlled chaos. With a full complement of players, that will become even more obvious.
We were a great rebounding team for a long time -- I don't see where I denied it... nor do I see how that applies to a defensive argument that I made -- as it's an ENTIRELY different statistic. Strangely the rebounding also went to crap directly after Kirby left.
There are certainly differences between what Ray is doing and what we did the past two or three years. And what Stans did over the years, and presumably what Ray will do, was sometimes different based on personnel. For example, Zimmerman pressured the ball out past half court, but Jamont Gordon didn't. When DeVille was available last year, he picked up and guarded the ball from the moment it was thrown in. (I'm sure you only meant the comment as hyperbole, but Smith played the type of defense you describe every possession he played last year.) And when Bloodman was not in the game today, Sword did not guard the PG the same way. Sometimes people see what they want to see.
Having said all of that, you guys think Ray is a good coach because he's different from Stans, while I think doing most things like Stans can be a good thing. Since we're all being generally positive about Ray, then I'm not sure there is much more point in continuing to argue.
Having said all of that, you guys think Ray is a good coach because he's different from Stans, while I think doing most things like Stans can be a good thing. Since we're all being generally positive about Ray, then I'm not sure there is much more point in continuing to argue.
I bring up rebounding...
because I consider that a defensive statistic. But MSU was also consistently at the top in field goal percentage against. As recently as the 2009-2010 season, we were first in the conference and tenth in the country in field goal percentage against. In 2007-2008, we were second in the country in that stat. These facts just don't fit the narrative you guys are pushing.
because I consider that a defensive statistic. But MSU was also consistently at the top in field goal percentage against. As recently as the 2009-2010 season, we were first in the conference and tenth in the country in field goal percentage against. In 2007-2008, we were second in the country in that stat. These facts just don't fit the narrative you guys are pushing.
It was clear that he had no respect for Stansbury
He wouldn't make eye contact with his head coach during timeouts and would often carry on his own conversation with other players. Stans had the responsibility to nip that in the bud and he failed, but it won't keep me from labeling Bost a piece of **** team player. He had all the skill in the world, but it never appeared that he was a positive influence on others.
I can agree with 2-5, but one of the few coaching moves stans did well for at least a lomg portion of his career was draw up a decent inbounds play.
It really is a shame to see those teams get beaten by a battered and injured group of guys like ours. Shameful indeed.
No one is claiming we are a great basketball team. Most are stating the obvious that we are getting everything we can out of 8 guys available.
Question for you: what would our record be with Stans as coach and the exact same group of guys? I guarantee you we would be 0-2 in conference.
Actually if Hood was doing what was best for HIM...
he would have signed with Duke (or the like) out of HS. Given he was already at MSU, it shouldn't have taken him 5 minutes in dealing with Ray and the new staff to know he was about to get a significant upgrade in coaching and so there was no reason for him not to stay and be the leader of our team. He's getting a significant upgrade in coaching now with Coach K but he's having to sit out a year to get it.
Come again? This is the first i have heard of Hood being locker room poison. He was quiet last season, gave effort in every game, and played to his strengths while never getting too up or too down.
I just cant imagine a player going from that on the court to being poison in the locker room.
And i really dont remember him ever looking like a flashy hotshot idiot. When exactly did he act like this?[/h]
How does that show he is a flashy hotshot who will destroy the locker room?
It doesnt.
All it shows is that he knows he has a finite number of years to be a college basketball player and maximize himself at the college level, and he thought he could do it better elsewhere.
Moultrie transferred after a coaching change and was on the NBA radar before transferring...lets hear how he is different. This should be rich.
Of course a player should do what he thinks is best for him. Its his life. A student at MSU would do the same thing if they didnt think they fit well at MSU.
Coaches leave when they think its best for them.
Coaches force players off the team when they think it will benefit the team by an upgrade in talent.
Yet you and others hold it against the player when they use what little leverage they have in this relationship and do what they think is best for them?!?! Absurd.
Everybody is doing what they think is best for them. You arent even being an idealist here, you are being ignorant and unrealistic.