Yo Sesh re: Paulus...
- Thread starter dawgstudent
- Start date
Key differences: Paulus went to Duke, he never got in trouble, he mentioned he's been researching graduate degree programs, he said he wants to compete for a starting job which doesn't mean I'm only transferring to play football, and also he's from Syracuse and has strong ties there.
Masoli got in trouble on numerous occasions, got kicked off his football team, has no ties to UM or Oxford...why should you be kicked off a team and then just join another team and not have to sit out a year. That's more than likely the reason the NCAA denied his request. If he wanted to transfer and was in good standing with the team, they prolly would have let him play this year. He got a second chance out of HS, then got another one at Oregon, then another one at Oregon and ultimately kicked off the team. You can't just run from your problems Masoli. Eventually they will catch up to you, and in this case they did.
Masoli got in trouble on numerous occasions, got kicked off his football team, has no ties to UM or Oxford...why should you be kicked off a team and then just join another team and not have to sit out a year. That's more than likely the reason the NCAA denied his request. If he wanted to transfer and was in good standing with the team, they prolly would have let him play this year. He got a second chance out of HS, then got another one at Oregon, then another one at Oregon and ultimately kicked off the team. You can't just run from your problems Masoli. Eventually they will catch up to you, and in this case they did.
precedents they've set, and they're not following the rules as set out. The problem is this doesn't apply to just us. It's why John Wall got to play and Sidney is suspended. Anyone cheering this ruling simply doesn't understand that them ignoring their own rules doesn't just hurt OM, it's an example of a pattern of behavior that affects all of us. If they don't like the rule, they should change it for next year. And that goes for all rules. You either follow them, or don't have them.
precedent means absolutely nothing.
A reasonable person could argue that the Paulus case implies a student-athlete can transfer solely for athletics - and that Masoli should play based on the Paulus ruling. The NCAA will just say no two cases are alike and that's that.
Bottom line in the comparison: NCAA isn't going to deny a Duke basketball player in good standing from "following his dream." An Ole Miss Rebel is another matter entirely. Same as Wall at UK asopposed toSidney at MSU.
A reasonable person could argue that the Paulus case implies a student-athlete can transfer solely for athletics - and that Masoli should play based on the Paulus ruling. The NCAA will just say no two cases are alike and that's that.
Bottom line in the comparison: NCAA isn't going to deny a Duke basketball player in good standing from "following his dream." An Ole Miss Rebel is another matter entirely. Same as Wall at UK asopposed toSidney at MSU.
They never have and they never will. Worst organization in the country outside of our legislature.Optimus Prime 4 said:
OP, it's not the same at all.....Wall committed a crime before he got to Kentucky. Yes the punishment was a joke, but not worth sitting out a year. If every player had to sit a year for a crime they committed before school, then several key players we have had over the years wouldn't have played. I can't even name any from UM or MSU, but I'm sure it's happened.
Paulus never got in trouble. He followed the rules and he should get his request.
Masoli never followed any rules and he got denied.
The key word, OP is "waiver REQUEST." You have to request it. I know almost everytime they grant the request, but go back and look and see if you can find a similar Masoli situation that got their waiver. I'm not saying it's never happened, but see if you can find a case similar.
On the flip side, Ole Miss finally gets to play with a QB they recruited. If I'm not mistaken first time since Eli? Shaeffer transfered from UT, Snead transfered from Texas, and they just tried to get Masoli from Oregon. Nutt is a great recruiter, I'm sure he set you guys up nicely with Stanley.
Paulus never got in trouble. He followed the rules and he should get his request.
Masoli never followed any rules and he got denied.
The key word, OP is "waiver REQUEST." You have to request it. I know almost everytime they grant the request, but go back and look and see if you can find a similar Masoli situation that got their waiver. I'm not saying it's never happened, but see if you can find a case similar.
On the flip side, Ole Miss finally gets to play with a QB they recruited. If I'm not mistaken first time since Eli? Shaeffer transfered from UT, Snead transfered from Texas, and they just tried to get Masoli from Oregon. Nutt is a great recruiter, I'm sure he set you guys up nicely with Stanley.
Masoli intended to go to grad school at OU this year. He still could if he was really serious about his academics, we all
know that is not the case here. He was kicked off the OU team and then
went school shopping where he could start at QB. It was all about
playing football, not academics. It's all about his intent, and it doesn't take David Blaine to
figure this one out.
know that is not the case here. He was kicked off the OU team and then
went school shopping where he could start at QB. It was all about
playing football, not academics. It's all about his intent, and it doesn't take David Blaine to
figure this one out.
The NCAA is a bunch of Knob Gobblers, but the key words in the rule are 'Grant' and 'Waiver'. The NCAA can choose to grant any request at their leisure, you are asking for a favor from them. They are bitches and they've been in a particularly bad mood lately. Just ask USC, 2 years ago I'd have said no way USC gets any probation from the Reggie Bush saga. Just ask Reynardo Sidney. And I expect Dee Bost to get the shaft too.
however, the whole 'he's a good kid', 'let us help him', 'we're in the people helping business' is borderline crazy. He's a Heisman Candidate QB that is a hired gun running from the law trying to get one more year on the field to go pro, period.
however, the whole 'he's a good kid', 'let us help him', 'we're in the people helping business' is borderline crazy. He's a Heisman Candidate QB that is a hired gun running from the law trying to get one more year on the field to go pro, period.
Paulus - I am out of basketball eligibility and have graduated. I might go play pro basketball somewhere, but if I'm allowed to play football immediately, I will think about enrolling in a grad school.
Masoli - I got kicked off my football team with eligibility remaining, but I think if I enroll in a grad program somewhere, I can play football there immediately.
I think it boils down to the fact that Paulus was out of eligibility in basketball, and had one to play one in football. Also, it sounds like playing football was a big factor on whether or not he went to grad school or went pro in basketball. Masoli still had one year of eligibility remaining in football and has two years to play it. I think they determined (however they went about it), that he would never had considered transferring if he had not been dismissed from the team. They are treating him like a freshmens, sophomore, or junior that transfers for getting dismissed. I don't think the degree mattered to them at all.
Again... gray, gray, gray. And I'm trying to peel the maroon off my glasses and be as objective as I can. I just don't think it's a slam dunk he should have been granted the waiver, and I don't think it's necessarily the absolutely correct decision that they denied it. I don't really know, and some times I fine with not deciding on an issue that really has no effect on me. Well, I'll admit to some serious schadenfreude yesterday when the news came out, but even that has faded.
Masoli - I got kicked off my football team with eligibility remaining, but I think if I enroll in a grad program somewhere, I can play football there immediately.
I think it boils down to the fact that Paulus was out of eligibility in basketball, and had one to play one in football. Also, it sounds like playing football was a big factor on whether or not he went to grad school or went pro in basketball. Masoli still had one year of eligibility remaining in football and has two years to play it. I think they determined (however they went about it), that he would never had considered transferring if he had not been dismissed from the team. They are treating him like a freshmens, sophomore, or junior that transfers for getting dismissed. I don't think the degree mattered to them at all.
Again... gray, gray, gray. And I'm trying to peel the maroon off my glasses and be as objective as I can. I just don't think it's a slam dunk he should have been granted the waiver, and I don't think it's necessarily the absolutely correct decision that they denied it. I don't really know, and some times I fine with not deciding on an issue that really has no effect on me. Well, I'll admit to some serious schadenfreude yesterday when the news came out, but even that has faded.
if paulus had been kicked off dukes basketball team, then transferred to michigan to play basketball there is no way the NCAA would have not made him sit out a year.
at Duke and then two months before fall camp started decided to change schools.<div>
</div><div>It is obvious that Masoli's dismissal from the Oregon team is what triggered his decision to transfer. He was set, ready to attend classes and play football but could not stay out of trouble.</div>
</div><div>It is obvious that Masoli's dismissal from the Oregon team is what triggered his decision to transfer. He was set, ready to attend classes and play football but could not stay out of trouble.</div>
Look, we get it. Masoli wanted to transfer because he couldn't play at Oregon. There's no rule that prevented him from doing that. This waiver case by case argument is nonsense. What's th purpose of the rule if the committee can decide ad hoc who it applies to?
There is no rule that says if you have your degree you can transfer wherever and play immediately. It is "waiver on a case by case" basis, and no matter how stupid it is, it's what they have. There is no damn rule other than the one that says transfers within FBS must sit out a year if they transfer unless granted a waiver. Again, NO RULES regarding waivers. It's totally case by case, and no amount of angry message board typing by you is going to change that fact.HLRebel said:
Look, we get it. Masoli wanted to transfer because he couldn't play at Oregon. There's no rule that prevented him from doing that. This waiver case by case argument is nonsense. What's th purpose of the rule if the committee can decide ad hoc who it applies to?
I thought there was no way the NCAA would use Masoli's off field stuff as a reason to rule against him. I figured that they might deny him with some other BS excuse, but they flat out came out and said it was because of the off field stuff. So get ready, Pandora's box has been opened. I look for the NCAA to start stepping in on the eligibility of high school recruits based on their criminal history. At least that is what they are suggesting they can do.
It's OM's "pattern of behavior" that the NCAA is reeling in. Powe's "learning disability", Oher's BYU correspondence courses, etc. You guys have been messing around in the gray area too much lately and apparently the NCAA is being nice by jerking OM back by the collar. Unfortunately for you guys, the NCAA makes the rules and also enforces them how they wish.
Karma and all that....
Karma and all that....
We act like the NCAA is a branch of the Federal Gov't, but they aren't! Thats the key distinction. They're like the NFL. Gooddell suspensions don't follow any real rhyme or reason, they're based off of the size of the black eye said offense cause the NFL.
Vick was out of football for 2 years for fighting dogs, Donte Stallworth hit and killed someone and missed a few games.
If Masoli hadn't been such a problem in Oregon, he'd be a parks and rec grad student and playing for OM. I know the waiver prereqs don't say that, but thats the bottom line.
Vick was out of football for 2 years for fighting dogs, Donte Stallworth hit and killed someone and missed a few games.
If Masoli hadn't been such a problem in Oregon, he'd be a parks and rec grad student and playing for OM. I know the waiver prereqs don't say that, but thats the bottom line.
Masoli has 2 to play 1. That doesn't make a lot of difference to me, but the NCAA will probably try to reference it to get people off their backs about the situations being "the same".
Personally, I think they made the wrong decision with Cooper. I'm speaking in terms of common sense not in terms of what the rules allow for now. There is no reason he should have been accommodated because he only had one year left to play. Since the transfer was the result of a suspension, the NCAA should have either A) granted him an additional year to play his one season and made him sit out or B) said "sorry guy, your time is up". Immediate eligibility was BS for that guy. The NCAA got that one wrong...
Personally, I think they made the wrong decision with Cooper. I'm speaking in terms of common sense not in terms of what the rules allow for now. There is no reason he should have been accommodated because he only had one year left to play. Since the transfer was the result of a suspension, the NCAA should have either A) granted him an additional year to play his one season and made him sit out or B) said "sorry guy, your time is up". Immediate eligibility was BS for that guy. The NCAA got that one wrong...
That's what the NCAA is saying and he can play next year at Ole Miss is he wants to.57StratDawg said:
I don't think a player that is suspended from his team should be allowed to immediately play at another Division I school regardless if he has his degree or not.
But I also think that once you pick a position, that you have to treat players the same. You can't treat Masoli differently just because he actually graduated earlier, that flies in the face of the NCAA promoting academics. Either no one gets to play if suspended or they all get to play.
Now if Kenneth Cooper had been a Naismith contender and wanted to transfer to Michigan or Indiana, I have a feeling we would have heard about this before. Since he was a nobody at La Tech, and no one cared, they granted the waiver because he met the requirements. Since Masoli was so high profile, they decided to make a different waiver with no real difference.
But I also think that once you pick a position, that you have to treat players the same. You can't treat Masoli differently just because he actually graduated earlier, that flies in the face of the NCAA promoting academics. Either no one gets to play if suspended or they all get to play.
Now if Kenneth Cooper had been a Naismith contender and wanted to transfer to Michigan or Indiana, I have a feeling we would have heard about this before. Since he was a nobody at La Tech, and no one cared, they granted the waiver because he met the requirements. Since Masoli was so high profile, they decided to make a different waiver with no real difference.