Who gets blamed when college football teams lose now? You, the fans

SHUSource

All-Conference
Jun 3, 2001
42,120
4,449
48
An absolute masterpiece by Will Leitch in The Athletic today. The piece speaks primarily to football, but not exclusively. It's more a difference of scale.

Now, obviously, college sports programs have always tried to raise money any way they could, usually from rich donors who have decided that the best way to use their wealth to make the world a better place is to give it to a football team. But as the NIL era has gone on, schools have discovered there are only so many billionaire fat cats to go around. So they started making the same pitch to the rest of us that they’ve made to billionaires, in an age of $7 diesel and $320 ESPN: Give us more, or we’ll lose, and sorry, that’s on you.
 

HALL85

Heisman
Jul 5, 2001
30,386
11,829
113
An absolute masterpiece by Will Leitch in The Athletic today. The piece speaks primarily to football, but not exclusively. It's more a difference of scale.

Now, obviously, college sports programs have always tried to raise money any way they could, usually from rich donors who have decided that the best way to use their wealth to make the world a better place is to give it to a football team. But as the NIL era has gone on, schools have discovered there are only so many billionaire fat cats to go around. So they started making the same pitch to the rest of us that they’ve made to billionaires, in an age of $7 diesel and $320 ESPN: Give us more, or we’ll lose, and sorry, that’s on you.
Sounds familiar….
 

SPK145

All-Conference
Jun 3, 2001
1,536
3,505
113
An absolute masterpiece by Will Leitch in The Athletic today. The piece speaks primarily to football, but not exclusively. It's more a difference of scale.

Now, obviously, college sports programs have always tried to raise money any way they could, usually from rich donors who have decided that the best way to use their wealth to make the world a better place is to give it to a football team. But as the NIL era has gone on, schools have discovered there are only so many billionaire fat cats to go around. So they started making the same pitch to the rest of us that they’ve made to billionaires, in an age of $7 diesel and $320 ESPN: Give us more, or we’ll lose, and sorry, that’s on you.
It's the same here as well.
 

Halldan

All-American
Staff member
Jan 1, 2003
185,959
9,005
113
Much of what is posted is understandable, But successful sports programs have a major impact on a school.

Just look at what the Big East has done for Seton Hall. Most of our readers have little idea what the campus looked like in the early 70's when I was an undergrad. The campus was an embarrassment but we didn't know better at the time. So we learned to play in an inflated bubble in the winter that collapsed with major snowfall. In the summer there was one outdoor court with bent rims. The tennis court had cracks and uneven nets, There was no pool. Well, actually that's not true. The pool hidden in the bowels of Walsh had no water in it and was unuseable.

I could go on and on.

The money donated helped the school build what we now see. A beautiful campus geared toward student needs.

To me the school made me who I am today. With the obvious help of Hallrox. For that I will always help in my small way by financially supporting Seton Hall athletics to better the environment for our current students.
 
Feb 9, 2005
246
422
63
No one likes it, unless they have a Repole or Fairfield County dumping money into your accounts.
However, in this era, those who aren't contributing do forfeit the right to complain.
If Holloway can continue to stretch the dollars he has, and get where we all want to go, great. But we're not going to compete with the top of the conference as long as we are outgunned, financially.
 

radecicco

All-Conference
Jun 24, 2013
1,055
1,665
113
Two things can be right. We are always asked to give more and more but without the money it’s difficult to compete at the highest level. The BE has really helped SHU. And I sprained my ankle on that court, Dan, because the tar surface stopped directly under the rim, not behind the backboard!
 

HALL85

Heisman
Jul 5, 2001
30,386
11,829
113
No doubt the Big East helped SHU in enrollment and making those campus improvements The ROI was there. But its not out of bounds to question economics and return to compete in this new arms race, especially when we are sitting on an endowment that is a fraction of some of the Patriot League schools in our geography.

Do enrolling students care anymore? If the school thought it was a critical part of the future, wouldn’t they prioritize promoting the program?

Read an article yesterday that Drew University is taking drastic actions (20% faculty pay-cut and service reductions), as they are burning cash (and their endowment), which isn’t much smaller than SHU.

Times change. I don’t go to Blockbuster anymore to get a movie. Not saying we should leave the BE but we should question sustainability.
 

Halldan

All-American
Staff member
Jan 1, 2003
185,959
9,005
113
Two things can be right. We are always asked to give more and more but without the money it’s difficult to compete at the highest level. The BE has really helped SHU. And I sprained my ankle on that court, Dan, because the tar surface stopped directly under the rim, not behind the backboard!
And woe was the person who fell on that surface. You had cuts that blead for days.
 

Halldan

All-American
Staff member
Jan 1, 2003
185,959
9,005
113
No doubt the Big East helped SHU in enrollment and making those campus improvements The ROI was there. But its not out of bounds to question economics and return to compete in this new arms race, especially when we are sitting on an endowment that is a fraction of some of the Patriot League schools in our geography.

Do enrolling students care anymore? If the school thought it was a critical part of the future, wouldn’t they prioritize promoting the program?

Read an article yesterday that Drew University is taking drastic actions (20% faculty pay-cut and service reductions), as they are burning cash (and their endowment), which isn’t much smaller than SHU.

Times change. I don’t go to Blockbuster anymore to get a movie. Not saying we should leave the BE but we should question sustainability.
It's sustainable to date. The school is in the black and the incoming class has the highest academic achievements in the history of the school.
 

HallLine69

Heisman
Aug 24, 2001
10,595
10,858
112
Just look at what the Big East has done for Seton Hall. Most of our readers have little idea what the campus looked like in the early 70's when I was an undergrad. The campus was an embarrassment but we didn't know better at the time.
With all due respect, the campus was --in my opinion-- NEVER an embarrassmment. My 4 wonderfull years at the Prep and my even greater 5 years at SHU shaped me into the person I became. Conceding your larger point, there's no question the campus has grown and thrived but I will never reflect on those days in the 60's with anything less than pure joy.
 
Last edited:

SHUSource

All-Conference
Jun 3, 2001
42,120
4,449
48
The effect of the Big East on Seton Hall isn't really the issue here, particularly in the linked piece from The Athletic, which was about the bogus idea that the rank-and-file fan is to blame when player-payroll funding comes up short. That is an abject falsehood and a combination of deflection and emotional manipulation by athletic departments, who know perfectly well that the contributions by the average Joe do not have a substantive effect on that.

Seton Hall's campus transformation the past 40 years is part of a nationwide trend that has seen this same thing happen all over the country at colleges and universities regardless of their level of athletic competition. I would challenge anyone to find a campus that has been transformed more than Kean, an also-ran Division III institution if there ever was one. As a greater and greater percentage of students decided to go to college, the competition became fierce for them, and institutions -- particularly the ones that were not on that first or second tier of desirability/prestige -- decided they needed to make sweeping capital improvements in order to draw the eyes of these prospective students. So every place looks different than it did a generation ago, but it's also been a primary driver of massive tuition increases, because it isn't cheap and athletic revenue only pays for athletic upgrades.

Seton Hall did experience a brief surge in giving after our unexpected Final Four run, mostly because it was so shocking and unexpected to so many alumni who never thought that they went to a school that could do that. And I think that offset the costs of those capital improvements, which is good because they were going to happen anyway. They had to if Seton Hall was to remain a viable choice for students.
 
Last edited:

PMB Pirate

Sophomore
Oct 14, 2002
95
139
33
1,000% spot on. The Big East has helped, no doubt, but it’s not the main reason for the improvements and upgrades on campus.

Again, support any way you can and however you choose. It’s nobody’s business but your own.
 
  • Like
Reactions: HALL85
Feb 9, 2005
246
422
63
The effect of the Big East on Seton Hall isn't really the issue here, particularly in the linked piece from The Athletic, which was about the bogus idea that the rank-and-file fan is to blame when player-payroll funding comes up short. That is an abject falsehood and a combination of deflection and emotional manipulation by athletic departments, who know perfectly well that the contributions by the average Joe do not have a substantive effect on that.

Seton Hall's campus transformation the past 40 years is part of a nationwide trend that has seen this same thing happen all over the country at colleges and universities regardless of their level of athletic competition. I would challenge anyone to find a campus that has been transformed more than Kean, an also-ran Division III institution if there ever was one. As a greater and greater percentage of students decided to go to college, the competition became fierce for them, and institutions -- particularly the ones that were not on that first or second tier of desirability/prestige -- decided they needed to make sweeping capital improvements in order to draw the eyes of these prospective students. So every place looks different than it did a generation ago, but it's also been a primary driver of massive tuition increases, because it isn't cheap and athletic revenue only pays for athletic upgrades.

Seton Hall did experience a brief surge in giving after our unexpected Final Four run, mostly because it was so shocking an unexpected to so many alumni who never thought that they went to a school that could do that. And I think that offset the costs of those capital improvements, which is good because they were going to happen anyway. They had to if Seton Hall was to remain a viable choice for students.

Well said. The sticking point for me is always the "average Joe." I have to go along with you that their contributions, at a school with a relatively small number of living alumni like Seton Hall, don't move the needle much. I still think that their engagement, even at modest levels of giving, is very important. I read that Helen Lerner, who graduated in the 70's, consistently donated $50-100 a year until winning the lottery 20 years ago, and then made a large gift. This almost never happens, but the engagement/ownership - like the Green Bay Packers' "shares" - is important.

Funny enough, I was recently on the Kean campus for the first time, recently. Very impressive.
 
  • Like
Reactions: SHUSource

SHUSource

All-Conference
Jun 3, 2001
42,120
4,449
48
Well said. The sticking point for me is always the "average Joe." I have to go along with you that their contributions, at a school with a relatively small number of living alumni like Seton Hall, don't move the needle much. I still think that their engagement, even at modest levels of giving, is very important. I read that Helen Lerner, who graduated in the 70's, consistently donated $50-100 a year until winning the lottery 20 years ago, and then made a large gift. This almost never happens, but the engagement/ownership - like the Green Bay Packers' "shares" - is important.

Funny enough, I was recently on the Kean campus for the first time, recently. Very impressive.
I want to be clear about this: Giving in general is important, at almost any level, and I don't want to give the impression that I don't think so. If the school can get alums to engage even at negligible levels -- $50 a year or whatever -- yes, you're 100 percent right that the person is indeed engaged and is likely to give more when and/or if they are able.

There is a book that is a bible in the development world called "The Millionaire Next Door" that speaks to how regular folks like teachers very often become significant donors down the line, primarily in estate gifts. They're not likely to produce the mega-million-dollar gifts that have become the white whale of educational philanthropy in the past 30 years, but those people still do often wind up giving gifts of, say, $5 million, which obviously move needles and more. These are often directed toward specific things, but are also often put into the general pot. The reason behind it is often attributed to "wanting to give back and give others the opportunity I had." It resonates and what could be more noble than wanting to pay it forward?

Even if that kind of estate gift (and to be sure, plenty of those occur in life, too!) is not in the cards, even nickel-and-dime giving still boosts alumni giving rates, which is also a helpful metric. And it's not like those annual-giving-type things don't add up to anything. It just isn't significant in and of itself.

The linked story is simply about the myth that the success of funding player payroll (the correct term for the "NIL" misnomer) hinges on the willingness of Joe Fan. It simply does not, and there is massive and growing resentment across college-sports fanhood over that implication, especially when the refusal to give does not indicate a desire not to "give back and create the same opportunities I had." It's much more transactional: "I want to win." And hey, there's nothing wrong with that. It's your money to do with as you please. But it's also not a moral failing to decline to direct-fund the salaries of people who make more money this year than you do.
 

Seton75

All-Conference
Jun 3, 2001
37,000
3,480
113
The improvement to the physical plant made possible by us being in the BE and getting good at basketball is nothing less than staggering. IMO, the school I attended looked like a big HS down on its luck and having no money to maintain, let alone improve. I enjoyed my time, I cherish my education, but the walk from the pretzel guy by the Prep Bldg to the Arts and Sciences Bldg...nuff said lol
 
  • Like
Reactions: Halldan

Halldan

All-American
Staff member
Jan 1, 2003
185,959
9,005
113
That's my point. Loving my time at the school back then is not the same as comparing the campus back then to now. My HS in Bloomfield had much better athletic facilities than Seton Hall. I was shocked when I first visited the school.

Eventually I loved my 4 years there and count the time as many of the best years of my life. But what I wouldn't do now to be a freshmen in 2026.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ann_S
Seton Hall Pirates

Latest

  1. 01 Rivals 4-star PG Javion Tyndale commits to Seton Hall
  2. 02 Rivals Basketball Recruiting 4-star PG Javion Tyndale down to 6 schools
  3. 03 Women's Sports Highly-recruited 2027 prospect Ava Womack breaks down recruitment
  4. 04 Women's Sports Highly-recruited 2027 prospect Eni Oyedeji breaks down recruitment
  5. 05 On3 Basketball LMU transfer guard Rodney Brown Jr. commits to Seton Hall