141

Efejle

All-Conference
Apr 30, 2023
870
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Not saying a single negative word about any of our great young men and competitive guys. Not making any case for a wrestle off. Not claiming we need a wrestle off. Not claiming Cael thinks we need a wrestle off. And not saying there will be a wrestle off

But who ya got if they go on Monday night at practice?

I say Davis over Nate in overtime sv1. What you think?
 

Ryn0113

Sophomore
Nov 8, 2021
103
180
43
Why burn a redshirt for a weight class you have no chance in winning at nationals?

Besides this might be the last season we see Davis wrestling. With the talent in the room for that spot I don't see him in the lineup as a starter.
This is the best way to play it. Let Davis roll for the rest of the season, hope for an AA then reset, next season. No reason to burn Desmond's shirt now. Ono, Blaze and Desmond will battle for 133 and 141 and we're probably talking about breaking more records. The depth on this team is insane.
 
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tullfan68

All-Conference
Jun 20, 2021
776
1,019
93
Not saying a single negative word about any of our great young men and competitive guys. Not making any case for a wrestle off. Not claiming we need a wrestle off. Not claiming Cael thinks we need a wrestle off. And not saying there will be a wrestle off

But who ya got if they go on Monday night at practice?

I say Davis over Nate in overtime sv1. What you think?
won't be any wrestle off DES is shirting Davis goes!
 

pish69

All-Conference
Jan 11, 2016
967
2,377
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Never count out Braeden Davis. I’ve seen a lot of negative posts about him this year (not this thread)and I truly don’t get it.

Baby face has constantly exceeded expectations. B1G champ as fresh when he wasn’t expected to start. AA last year when no one expected it. This year was eating bon bons thru Xmas and expected to RS. Looked great in every match except against Mendez.

I don’t know what to expect with Davis this year or next, but I will never count the kid out.
 

jack66

All-Conference
May 29, 2001
3,404
3,439
113
Question for the experts on here.

How many auto-qualifier spots do you predict the Big Ten will have at 141?

As I see it, not many. There are only 5 ranked wrestlers (top-25) with 15 matches. Am I missing something?
 

Corby2

All-American
Jul 14, 2025
3,439
7,430
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Question for the experts on here.

How many auto-qualifier spots do you predict the Big Ten will have at 141?

As I see it, not many. There are only 5 ranked wrestlers (top-25) with 15 matches. Am I missing something?
8 or 9
 
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District 4

All-Conference
Feb 16, 2018
1,071
2,527
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This is the best way to play it. Let Davis roll for the rest of the season, hope for an AA then reset, next season. No reason to burn Desmond's shirt now. Ono, Blaze and Desmond will battle for 133 and 141 and we're probably talking about breaking more records. The depth on this team is insane.
Would cael really blow 2 redshirts for the same weight. I don't think so
 

El_Jefe

Heisman
Oct 11, 2021
3,288
12,987
113
Question for the experts on here.

How many auto-qualifier spots do you predict the Big Ten will have at 141?

As I see it, not many. There are only 5 ranked wrestlers (top-25) with 15 matches. Am I missing something?
Don't need 15 matches. Only need to satisfy 2 of the 3 criteria: .700 Win %, Top 30 Coaches' Rank (min 8 matches), Top 30 RPI (min 15 matches).

Min 5 guys are locks. Max 9 guys reasonable, squint hard and you might see 10. Most likely 7-8.

============

Satisfy all 3: Mendez, Hardy, Vombaur, Porter

Satisfy 2: Davis, Bailey (if he goes), Olivieri (if he goes)

Everybody above will get an AQ if they compete in the postseason. 5-7 total.

============

On the bubble:
- DeKraker: 60%, 31st coach, 22nd RPI. Has Pucino left on schedule.
- Ragusin: 63%, 30th coach, needs an Open to get an RPI and even then would be borderline top 30. Has Pucino and Blackburn (C. Michigan, 10-12) left.
- Clark: 73% (11-4), 32nd coach, not currently ranked in RPI, has Porter and Bailey/Petersen left -- needs to win 1 (or skip both) to stay above 70%.
- Petersen (if Bailey doesn't go): currently 9-3 (75%) with Porter and Vega remaining. Needs to either win 1 or duck both to stay above 70%. Also needs to get a Top 30 coaches' rank -- decent chance of that if Brands designates him the starter in time. Won't get an RPI without going to an Open.

Note: Vega, Olivieri, and Vazquez all have 13+ matches and will have higher RPIs than the bubble guys above.

Won't get an AQ: Pucino, Lemus, Exferd, Crumpler, Rutgers backup if Olivieri doesn't go.
 
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El_Jefe

Heisman
Oct 11, 2021
3,288
12,987
113
One more note on the AQs: once the AQs are allocated, if any of those guys withdraw from the conference tourney, then B10 loses their AQ spots to the At Large pool.

Substitutions don't matter. If Brands submits Petersen as the starter and he gets an AQ spot, then later changes his mind and runs Bailey out, then B10 loses that spot.
 

mcpat

All-American
Mar 12, 2021
1,767
7,112
113
One more note on the AQs: once the AQs are allocated, if any of those guys withdraw from the conference tourney, then B10 loses their AQ spots to the At Large pool.

Substitutions don't matter. If Brands submits Petersen as the starter and he gets an AQ spot, then later changes his mind and runs Bailey out, then B10 loses that spot.
Brands would never do anything stupid enough to cost the B1G an allocation.
 

Cstroke

All-Conference
Feb 10, 2019
521
1,667
93
A bunch of the criticism on Davis here sounds like a lot of the criticism on Ben on the Hawk board..
Davis will be close in getting into wrestling shape by nationals, he's just getting back into it, if he solves that he'll be fine..
Ben is coming off an injury and I don't think he's got enough time to get back into the swing of things this year..
Just a lot of dumb comments on these dudes.
 

HOA242n!

Senior
Aug 18, 2025
222
553
93
I think Scooter probably beats Desmond with some ease. As for last night, I think Mendez is simply that good. I expect Scooter to battle for a low AA place come March with a R12 floor.
Desmond fought for his life against Ragusin and IMO Davis (at least) majors (this year's version of) Ragusin. Davis has a significant size/strength advantage over Desmond, and he's no slouch otherwise. The Ragusin match made it really clear that Desmond (although very talented and full of heart) is way too small for 141, at least for the time being.

And yes, Mendez isn't far behind Messenbrink as the most dominant wrestler in the country.
 

rigi19040

Senior
Aug 1, 2024
1,120
673
113
Why burn a redshirt for a weight class you have no chance in winning at nationals?

Besides this might be the last season we see Davis wrestling. With the talent in the room for that spot I don't see him in the lineup as a starter.

The same applies to Desmond, therefore go with whoever wins a wrestle off.
 
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rigi19040

Senior
Aug 1, 2024
1,120
673
113
This is the best way to play it. Let Davis roll for the rest of the season, hope for an AA then reset, next season. No reason to burn Desmond's shirt now. Ono, Blaze and Desmond will battle for 133 and 141 and we're probably talking about breaking more records. The depth on this team is insane.

Do we need to worry about redshirts when guys are getting 8 years?

Ono, blaze, Desmond + incoming freshman will battle for TWO spots. Someone will be sitting. Another reason to wrestle now.
 
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rigi19040

Senior
Aug 1, 2024
1,120
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There is absolutely no way they are going to burn a redshirt to put an undersized 141 lb. true freshman in the line-up to score maybe(doubtful) an extra point or two at nationals. Period


Right. Save him for year 8 when he isn't even guaranteed to see the mat
 

Efejle

All-Conference
Apr 30, 2023
870
2,049
93
Desmond fought for his life against Ragusin and IMO Davis (at least) majors (this year's version of) Ragusin. Davis has a significant size/strength advantage over Desmond, and he's no slouch otherwise. The Ragusin match made it really clear that Desmond (although very talented and full of heart) is way too small for 141, at least for the time being.

And yes, Mendez isn't far behind Messenbrink as the most dominant wrestler in the country.
Wait a second..."Ragusin made it CLEAR" Made what clear? Desmond won that match. Ragusin made it clear that Desmond is better than Ragusin. That was made clear on the mat.
 

HOA242n!

Senior
Aug 18, 2025
222
553
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Wait a second..."Ragusin made it CLEAR" Made what clear? Desmond won that match. Ragusin made it clear that Desmond is better than Ragusin. That was made clear on the mat.
Made it clear that Desmond is too small for 141 right now. One of my favorite matches of the season, doesn't change that Desmond was at a massive size disadvantage against a - not big - 141, who (by some rankings) is not even currently top-30 in the weight class. Asking anybody to jump 2 weight classes mid-season, especially as a true freshman, is a tall order.
 

Scam likely

Senior
Nov 3, 2022
301
617
93
Cael said nate is weighing in light for 141 so he can have the math to get too 133 if needed. So who knows what he could weigh if goes full feed. That being said it would be messed up to burn a year of eligibility for Davis after starting the year in red shirt.
 

HOA242n!

Senior
Aug 18, 2025
222
553
93
Cael said nate is weighing in light for 141 so he can have the math to get too 133 if needed. So who knows what he could weigh if goes full feed. That being said it would be messed up to burn a year of eligibility for Davis after starting the year in red shirt.
He was prepped to wrestle unattached at 125 this season. Eating whatever you want is fun, but it doesn't necessarily make jumping two weight classes any easier mid-season. I'm sure there is a plan to get him to full-size 133 or 141 for next season.

Davis won Big-10s as a freshman, was an AA last year, and has pretty much manhandled everyone but the top tier guys this season at 141. He also was walking around a good 20lbs. heavier than Desmond a short time ago. Neither guy is going to be competitive with Mendez this season. Desmond will have his time.
 
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Efejle

All-Conference
Apr 30, 2023
870
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Pyles claims that if he is Desmond, he wants a wrestle off. His reasoning is that if you have a chance to go with this roster, you take it, redshirt or not: This lineup is extremely difficult to crack. He has a point there.
 

PSUbluTX

All-Conference
Feb 7, 2018
332
1,411
93
Made it clear that Desmond is too small for 141 right now. One of my favorite matches of the season, doesn't change that Desmond was at a massive size disadvantage against a - not big - 141, who (by some rankings) is not even currently top-30 in the weight class. Asking anybody to jump 2 weight classes mid-season, especially as a true freshman, is a tall order.

cary elwes GIF
 

Random4598375

All-Conference
Jan 10, 2020
591
1,704
93
Would cael really blow 2 redshirts for the same weight. I don't think so
This is the real answer. In this room there is never a reason to RS to preserve eligibility if you’re the best guy at the weight because there’s no guarantee there will be a spot in the lineup after you RS. That tells me that when it became clear that they’d need to burn a shirt to cover Nagao’s injury, they did what they needed to in the room to determine who is the best at the weight, and Davis was that determination.
 

Psalm 1 guy

All-Conference
Nov 3, 2019
1,151
4,417
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Don't need 15 matches. Only need to satisfy 2 of the 3 criteria: .700 Win %, Top 30 Coaches' Rank (min 8 matches), Top 30 RPI (min 15 matches).

Min 5 guys are locks. Max 9 guys reasonable, squint hard and you might see 10. Most likely 7-8.

============

Satisfy all 3: Mendez, Hardy, Vombaur, Porter

Satisfy 2: Davis, Bailey (if he goes), Olivieri (if he goes)

Everybody above will get an AQ if they compete in the postseason. 5-7 total.

============

On the bubble:
- DeKraker: 60%, 31st coach, 22nd RPI. Has Pucino left on schedule.
- Ragusin: 63%, 30th coach, needs an Open to get an RPI and even then would be borderline top 30. Has Pucino and Blackburn (C. Michigan, 10-12) left.
- Clark: 73% (11-4), 32nd coach, not currently ranked in RPI, has Porter and Bailey/Petersen left -- needs to win 1 (or skip both) to stay above 70%.
- Petersen (if Bailey doesn't go): currently 9-3 (75%) with Porter and Vega remaining. Needs to either win 1 or duck both to stay above 70%. Also needs to get a Top 30 coaches' rank -- decent chance of that if Brands designates him the starter in time. Won't get an RPI without going to an Open.

Note: Vega, Olivieri, and Vazquez all have 13+ matches and will have higher RPIs than the bubble guys above.

Won't get an AQ: Pucino, Lemus, Exferd, Crumpler, Rutgers backup if Olivieri doesn't go.
@El_Jefe I always appreciate you bringing specificity and facts to discussions on this forum. I sometimes visit the Intermat forum and the volume of threads there with nonsensical takes unsupported by any data or facts boggles my mind.
 

Psalm 1 guy

All-Conference
Nov 3, 2019
1,151
4,417
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Desmond fought for his life against Ragusin and IMO Davis (at least) majors (this year's version of) Ragusin. Davis has a significant size/strength advantage over Desmond, and he's no slouch otherwise. The Ragusin match made it really clear that Desmond (although very talented and full of heart) is way too small for 141, at least for the time being.

And yes, Mendez isn't far behind Messenbrink as the most dominant wrestler in the country.
As of last night's dual Mitchell's Dominance rating is 5.28 while Mendez has a rating of 4.83. Mitchell has 7 Falls, 7 Technical Falls and 3 Majors, whereas mendez's numbers are 4,9 and 3 respectively. It should also be noted that there are only four wrestlers who still have a 100% Bonus rate; Mesenbrink, Barr, Seidel and Jax. This is from Cornell Kevin over on the Intermat forum:

 
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HOA242n!

Senior
Aug 18, 2025
222
553
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I compete in a weight-class grappling sport. I am regularly cutting weight for competition myself and know exactly what it's like to roll with guys who are legitimately 15-20lbs. bigger than you are. Full feed is great, but there is a reason all wrestlers, boxers, MMA, BJJ, powerlifters, olympic lifters, etc. cut weight outside of the heavies. Desmond made 125 less than 3 months ago. He would be competing against guys that managed their weight off-season to be able to cut to compete at 141, most of whom haven't seen 125 in more than 3yrs (not 3 months). They, like Davis, were probably walking around in the 160 range pre-season. It's a moot point anyway as Davis is a "full-sized" 141 right now, is arguably every bit as talented as Desmond and a legitimate AA candidate, and it would be insane to blow 2 redshirts for a weight class where PSU has little chance of even making the semifinals at nationals.

He'll have the next 4yrs to grow into 133-149.
 
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Sportfan2017

Senior
Jun 28, 2017
203
718
93
The same applies to Desmond, therefore go with whoever wins a wrestle off.
You do realize that if Desmond even qualifies for nationals....he would be the 33rd seed and get Mendez in round 1 (if he wins the pigtail). Remember coach Smith's son at Okie State? Wins on the back-side are 1/2 point. He hasn't bonused anyone at 141....his best win is in OT over a guy ranked in the high 20's. How many points do you think he will earn? One? Two? Burn his redshirt for what? Do you heat your fireplace with C-notes? :)
 

rigi19040

Senior
Aug 1, 2024
1,120
673
113
You do realize that if Desmond even qualifies for nationals....he would be the 33rd seed and get Mendez in round 1 (if he wins the pigtail). Remember coach Smith's son at Okie State? Wins on the back-side are 1/2 point. He hasn't bonused anyone at 141....his best win is in OT over a guy ranked in the high 20's. How many points do you think he will earn? One? Two? Burn his redshirt for what? Do you heat your fireplace with C-notes? :)
You afraid davis will lose a wrestle off?
 

Efejle

All-Conference
Apr 30, 2023
870
2,049
93
Not sure how the term "walking around at..." applies to a sport in which you are never "walking" around anyways 😂. Unless of course you are a Ferrari, in which case you are "walking backwards" or just "on your knee" 😂
 
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