What was the association between Buffalo Creek Mine and Consol? I do not recall one. Pittston was the primary there, and they paid, but Consol I don't remember. Pittston mined the entire hollow themselves or via contract miners. Help refresh my memory.
20% slash to federal workers. Great start.
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That was a huge court case. The "company" that caused the disaster filed bankruptcy, and the surviving victims had lost family members and were homeless due to the disaster. Rather than Consol (I think it was Consolidated Coal) stepping up and paying up, they fought it tooth and nail in a civil trial. Meanwhile, the state footed the tab for clean up and the victims had lost everything they owned.
My point is that these are the people who say should self-police on environmental concerns. I'm not saying that I trust government implicitly, but I sure don't trust people where profit margins are a concern either.
Well I'll just assume you've correctly relayed what happened in that case cause honestly I just don't know.
But consider logically for moment what business would knowingly attempt to damage the customers or the environment they need to grow and sell their more of products in? Why would they prefer to poison their food, or dirty the air their kids have to breathe too, or make their environment any less habitable for themselves than their customers? Seems to me if companies want a future to grow and thrive in, a safe, clean, healthy environment that they help to maintain is simply good business correct?
Are there crooks? Sure. Can they be policed and prosecuted for serious environmental violations without a large bureaucracy that in most cases would rather shut them down than help them clean up their messes and keep growing?
Yes.
You really need to read up on some WV history. Part of the problem was that the people calling the shots weren't in WV. They were doing damage to some place and people they did not feel a connection to. It was purely profit driven, and the people impacted by what you left behind had to suffer through it.
I'm not going to say that all companies are run like that. I'm simply pointing out some of the reasons why we have regulations and investigators - environmental and otherwise. I heard someone complaining about the paperwork required for his 401k plan. He said that they hadn't done any strange investments or the like. The problem is that some companies do not take care of those funds like they should. That's why the rest of us have to deal with the overhead. It's just like the greater majority of people aren't looking to break the law, but we still have to have police to investigate those that do break the law.
You make logical arguments over why we indeed need oversight, and some form of regulation. I've never argued against that per se.
I'm against the overreach, needless overlap, pointless obstructionism, or outright hostility most of the big Federal agencies exhibit against private companies in particular, and a free market in general.
Despite all of the corners you paint this particular case into, and again I'm assuming all of it is correct as you describe it, it is in no way as an isolated case in my opinion, justification for the current operations of the EPA, OSHA, BLM, FDA, Dept. of Interior, Agriculture, Energy, Education, and a host of other alphabet agencies that are doing nothing more than choking off the creation of jobs and desperately needed growth in our moribund economy.
Surely between the extreme you've outlined in this particular case, and the way the vast majority of these agencies operate today virtually unchecked by their wielding of brute force power, we can find a way to both protect the environment safely, and promote economic expansion with as little interference from these bureaucrats as possible.
I agree that we have to find some sort of happy medium. I remember doing some steel work - standing steel buildings - when I was in college. I vaguely remember some of the OSHA regs related to working at some of the heights. I anything over 8' you were supposed to be harnessed up. It seemed silly and random to me at the time, especially if you were doing ladder work - more pain than it was worth. I also worked at some heights where I was way less than comfortable - think the highest was in the mid-30' range. A wind gust will freak you out that high up.
Regs don't always help matters. I have a buddy who went to move a 30' ladder on a construction site. Someone must have bumped the bottom of the ladder at some point, so when he got to the top to remove the tie off, the ladder went. He fell 30' into sand, blew out 2 disks in his back with a compression fracture of a vertebra in his low back. He had to have surgery to repair some damage, but he's doing really well now. They were following the rules by securing the ladder at the top. If they hadn't, the ladder would have fallen on its own before he went to move it. Nothing is fool proof.
I hear ya Man. I work at Dealership. Every other month we get visits from a group of OSHA "monitors" (usually a group of young chicks) who walk around with their clipboards making sure we're complying with safety regs. These gals as well meaning as they are, don't have a clue what they're either looking at or looking for. Most of 'em don't even know what a brake lathe does, or what an A/C recovery unit is, let alone trying to tell experienced Ford Blue Oval certified Master Techs how they need to operate them or keep them safe.
It's almost comical watching these Babes walking around making their little "notes" about what they see as our lax safety foibles. But, we have to do it to maintain our Insurance coverage...that's the only reason anyone pays any attention to 'em or makes any effort to even listen to what they "recommend"!
I can think of much more productive uses of those lovely ladies' time whenever they come around. Our Techs are easily distracted, and occasionally a couple of 'em do have nice asses to look at.
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Yes, those good ole honest companies always do the right thing, there is no need to police them.
http://www.wvgazettemail.com/news-c...r-lab-manager-gets-2-years-for-faking-reports
You can sue companies, try suing the federal govt for giving 550 mill to a company and they immediately go bankrupt after giving 2 mill to Obama.
You mean like Freedom Industries that polluted the drinking water in the Kanawha Valley, made tens of thousands of people sick, put other companies out of business then filed bankruptcy? Sure.
Govt has a responsibilty. It's not passing stupid laws that makes it hard to do business. I remember reading about that situation. Did anybody die?
No, thankfully, but a lot of people got really sick and a bunch of smaller businesses, restaurants, went out of business.
You mention suing companies as a solution. They get around this. They just pay out their executives multi million dollar bonuses then file for bankruptcy.
I contradict myself a lot, I have always run my business to a very high standard. I practice my dentistry as if I'm still being graded by instructors, actually, I'm better than they were.[thumbsup] When I see things like that pollution, I'm appalled because there is no excuse for that. pay the freight and get it taken care of responsibly.
I found this.....
The board said it could not find any record of a formal, rigorous inspection of the company's storage vessels prior to the January 9 leak. The damage to the tank that eventually spilled the toxic chemical MCHM into the river was likely a result of water leaking through the roof and onto the tank floor. Up to 300,000 residents lost access to fresh drinking water in the immediate aftermath of the spill, with at least 170 experiencing side effects of chemical exposure and 14 needing hospitalization for nausea, vomiting, and rashes. These symptoms, CSB said, are consistent with effects from MCHM exposure.
The board said it could not find any record of a formal, rigorous inspection of the company's storage vessels prior to the January 9 leak. The damage to the tank that eventually spilled the toxic chemical MCHM into the river was likely a result of water leaking through the roof and onto the tank floor. Up to 300,000 residents lost access to fresh drinking water in the immediate aftermath of the spill, with at least 170 experiencing side effects of chemical exposure and 14 needing hospitalization for nausea, vomiting, and rashes. These symptoms, CSB said, are consistent with effects from MCHM exposure.
It was a hell of a lot more than that. I don't know the date of that article, but even months after the spill when WVAW restarted water distribution, people were still getting sick.
It wasnt tens of thousands of people. That article is from an anti industry source and quotes a study that came out months after the spill.
It affected the drinking water of nine counties and over 100,000 West Virginia residents.
It was more like 300k but it didnt make tens of thousands sick. Stop making up numbers.