43 percent of Masters Degrees have a negative ROI…

[Maroon Eagle]

This study has been making the rounds the past few days. Reason has some good info here:

Nearly half of all masters degrees aren't worth getting

According to new research, 23 percent of bachelor's degree programs and 43 percent of master's degree programs have a negative ROI.

reason.com

You can look at the data here:

ROI Graduate - FREOPP

freopp.wpengine.com

I’m curious as to the methodology.

For example, Southern Miss & MSU both are listed in that spreadsheet as offering Masters in Teacher Education but Southern Miss has a significantly better and net positive ROI than does MSU (we’re talking a well over $100K difference).

My initial thinking is that Southern Miss grads travel more and get paid what they’re worth and MSU grads stay home and are underpaid.

(For those wondering, I chose that major and subject area since my grad degree from Southern Miss is in that general field. And of course, YMMV.)

 

[57stratdawg]

A bachelor degree is huge deal for an individual. Short of picking your spouse, it’s arguably the most important decision of your lifetime.

I could see a Masters being more hit or miss. Especially if you end up outside of the big ones (MBA, etc.). The real value in advanced degrees is the peer network.

 

[Dawgg]

Interesting, but I'm not totally surprised by that.

In my mid-late 20's, I briefly considered going back and getting an MBA because I thought it would increase my earning capability, but once I looked into the total cost and saw that none of my managers or people in the jobs I wanted really had one, I held off. I've also had more than one VP or C-Level executive say that a Master's can give you a boost into your first job, but that once you're truly in the workforce, your work history is the real measure of what you can do and whether you're hirable.

I think, unless you're working towards a PhD, you really only need a master's if it's required for you to perform the job you want to perform like jobs in health or education (physical/occupational/speech therapy, academic administration, adjunct professor, etc.) Otherwise, I think you could probably turn 2-3 years of work experience into the same earning potential and not be out the cost of a second degree.

 

[Maroon Eagle]

A bachelor degree is huge deal for an individual. Short of picking your spouse, it’s arguably the most important decision of your lifetime.

I agree with that but there are some exceptions.

I could see a Masters being more hit or miss. Especially if you end up outside of the big ones (MBA, etc.). The real value in advanced degrees is the peer network.

Your last sentence is very much on target.

The peer network is key.

 

[MSUDC11-2.0]

We paid for my wife’s masters in education and it was about $10K I believe (she did it online through USM). I think it got her about a $2K per year pay bump. So after five years it pretty much paid for itself.

I got a masters in accounting because it was the most straight forward way to accumulate hours to sit for the CPA exam. I passed the exam almost 3 years ago and my salary has gone up roughly $30K per year in that time.

 

[POTUS]

Quick glance shows a lot of religion degrees as being worst investments. Not surprising really.

Also, don't get a masters in art, music, dance, etc. unless you just like to throw money away.

 

[Maroon Eagle]

Also, don't get a masters in art, music, dance, etc. unless you just like to throw money away.

The exception proving the rule: Sam Houston State in Texas. $83K in earnings 10 years after a Masters in Music & an over $470K ROI.

17.

Stanford is better in both respects but I wouldn’t expect that from Sam Houston.

 

[BoDawg.sixpack]

Avoid Philosophy, pscyhology and communications...

1. Communications​

You’d think the ink-stained newsrooms and TV studios are full of wealthy and famous journalists. Not quite. Although these skills require lots of education and training, they buried the lead regarding the lack of payoff. Check these communications jobs out:

COPYWRITER
Median Salary: $52,549
30-Year Earnings: $3,099,338
ROI of Degree Earner Attending Public College: 82%
ROI of Degree Earner Attending Private College: 24%


NEWS REPORTER
Median Salary: $37,393
30-Year Earnings: $2,205,438
ROI of Degree Earner Attending Public College: 58%
ROI of Degree Earner Attending Private College: 17%

MARKETING COORDINATOR
Median Salary: $50,455
30-Year Earnings: $2,975,834
ROI of Degree Earner Attending Public College: 79%
ROI of Degree Earner Attending Private College: 23%

 

[Maroon Eagle]

Avoid Philosophy, pscyhology and communications...

1. Communications​

@57stratdawg — Here’s my exception I mentioned in my reply to you right here.

I got a BA in Communication to improve my writing and fine tune the critical thinking skills needed for grad school.

Communications grads are horribly paid but the bachelor degrees are a good base for taking classes in graduate level programs.

 

[The Cooterpoot]

You could simply say college costs too much and it would be the same thing. A masters degree in a lot of disciplines has gotten stupid expensive.

 

[GloryDawg]

Southern Miss started out as a teacher college.

 

[MagicDawg]

I just want to chime in with the idea that for many people, measuring the ROI of advanced study in dollars alone may miss the point, or at least may overlook the underlying motivations of the person investing in it and how they are measuring their return.

It's like trying to measure the financial ROI of learning to play the piano, reading the Bible, or buying my Mom a Mother's Day card.
Fair enough, I have been paid to play the piano. But overall, what I invested the things like this -- whether it took a long time or mere moments -- was not repaid in dollars but in personal satisfaction, a sense of accomplishment, and the ability to understand things that I'm interested in at a deeper level.

All that said, I don't think the taxpayer should be on the hook to pay for my exploration of personal scholarly fulfillment.

Just saying that the desired outcome/ROI isn't always $.

 

[Maroon Eagle]

Just saying that the desired outcome/ROI isn't always $.

Truth.

One of my contemporaries at Southern Miss had several degrees.

His Stated Desired Outcome was to earn more degrees than the Professor from Gilligan’s Island.

 

[WilCoDawg]

I’m shocked!!!***
Hell, even a bachelors is worthless if you really think about it. How many people do you know that have a degree related to their profession? Me? I’d say about 10%. No sarcastricks.

 

[The Cooterpoot]

Here's the thing about taxpayers paying for school, nobody would complain if it was done up front. If all you had to do was meet acceptance criteria and go to school in productive programs instead of taking out loans, you wouldn't even notice the tax bill really. That's not say I'm for that, but to say perception gets screwed up sometimes. And colleges haven't adapted well to changes in the world as for as degree offerings. Too many worthless degrees and not enough adapting to what's going on in the world.

 

[MagicDawg]

not enough adapting to what's going on in the world.

I think a good case can be made that the most academically and financially questionable degrees are those that HAVE adapted -- too much! -- to "what's going on in the world."

 

[StateCollege]

I’m shocked!!!***
Hell, even a bachelors is worthless if you really think about it. How many people do you know that have a degree related to their profession? Me? I’d say about 10%. No sarcastricks.

Bachelor's degree is far from worthless. You must not know many engineers, architects, accountants etc. Obviously career paths can take different turns along the way, but it usually starts with getting a job in the field that you graduated in.

 

[Hugh's Burner Phone]

BS: Bullsh!t
MS: More $h!t
PhD: Piled higher and deeper

 

[Maroon Eagle]

I think a good case can be made that the most academically and financially questionable degrees are those that HAVE adapted -- too much! -- to "what's going on in the world."

I never thought I’d see the day that @The Cooterpoot would make a pro-gender studies post. **

 

[Podgy]

This study has been making the rounds the past few days. Reason has some good info here:

Nearly half of all masters degrees aren't worth getting

According to new research, 23 percent of bachelor's degree programs and 43 percent of master's degree programs have a negative ROI.

reason.com

You can look at the data here:

ROI Graduate - FREOPP

freopp.wpengine.com

I’m curious as to the methodology.

For example, Southern Miss & MSU both are listed in that spreadsheet as offering Masters in Teacher Education but Southern Miss has a significantly better and net positive ROI than does MSU (we’re talking a well over $100K difference).

My initial thinking is that Southern Miss grads travel more and get paid what they’re worth and MSU grads stay home and are underpaid.

(For those wondering, I chose that major and subject area since my grad degree from Southern Miss is in that general field. And of course, YMMV.)

Is Southern Miss all online, something that might include students from other states?

 

[Podgy]

Bachelor's degree is far from worthless. You must not know many engineers, architects, accountants etc. Obviously career paths can take different turns along the way, but it usually starts with getting a job in the field that you graduated in.

On average college grads make significantly more than high school grads especially over their lifetimes. A college degree from a decent public uni is worth it. College grads are more likely to get married and stay married and are more likely to become millionaires. There are numerous, better outcomes for college grads compared to high school grads.

 

[Maroon Eagle]

Is Southern Miss all online, something that might include students from other states?

Southern Miss is big into online education. I don’t know the numbers though.

 

[ZombieKissinger]

Everyone looking at ROI should take into account the time value of money

 

[QuadrupleOption]

I work in IT and got an MBA. It hasn't moved the needle at all. Which is fine - I did it because I was bored and wanted something to occupy my time. Now I need another hobby. I'm thinking of taking up archery.

My wife got her Master's and a PhD. She immediately saw benefits when she got her Masters and obviously after her PhD.

It all depends on what field you're in as to whether or not a Masters will benefit you. In education, the Masters is nice but to really move the needle requires a PhD.

In Engineering or IT no one really cares. Either you can do the job or you can't. Results are measurable and speak for themselves.

 

[PooPopsBaldHead]

Bachelor's degree is far from worthless. You must not know many engineers, architects, accountants etc. Obviously career paths can take different turns along the way, but it usually starts with getting a job in the field that you graduated in.

This. Nearly every white collar job in the country requires a bachelor's these days. I know plenty of folks who have done well without one, but they are usually working really hard with their hands or have an entrepreneurial spirit where they were willing to take the risk of tying their personal income to their ability to make it on their own...

My old boss and mentor put it best. If you want a good job with a good company there are 3 ways to do it:

Start out at the bottom of the bottom, bust your áss, and eventually move your way up to the middle.
Get a college degree, start out at the bottom of the middle, and do just enough to eventually move to the top of the middle.
Get a college degree, start out at the bottom of the middle, and bust your *** to rise to the top of the top.

For most of us, the bachelor's degree is the ante to sit at the big poker table.

 

[horshack.sixpack]

I work in IT and got an MBA. It hasn't moved the needle at all. Which is fine - I did it because I was bored and wanted something to occupy my time. Now I need another hobby. I'm thinking of taking up archery.

My wife got her Master's and a PhD. She immediately saw benefits when she got her Masters and obviously after her PhD.

It all depends on what field you're in as to whether or not a Masters will benefit you. In education, the Masters is nice but to really move the needle requires a PhD.

In Engineering or IT no one really cares. Either you can do the job or you can't. Results are measurable and speak for themselves.

If you are bored in general IT, move into cybersecurity. You won't have time to consider whether you are bored or not...

 

[horshack.sixpack]

This study has been making the rounds the past few days. Reason has some good info here:

Nearly half of all masters degrees aren't worth getting

According to new research, 23 percent of bachelor's degree programs and 43 percent of master's degree programs have a negative ROI.

reason.com

You can look at the data here:

ROI Graduate - FREOPP

freopp.wpengine.com

I’m curious as to the methodology.

For example, Southern Miss & MSU both are listed in that spreadsheet as offering Masters in Teacher Education but Southern Miss has a significantly better and net positive ROI than does MSU (we’re talking a well over $100K difference).

My initial thinking is that Southern Miss grads travel more and get paid what they’re worth and MSU grads stay home and are underpaid.

(For those wondering, I chose that major and subject area since my grad degree from Southern Miss is in that general field. And of course, YMMV.)

I got my masters for one primary reason, the economy sucked when I got out with my BS. It didn't hurt that MSU waived my tuition and paid me to teach while I was in grad school, so my ROI was pretty much covered. 2 years made all the difference in the economy and I landed the job I wanted with my masters.

 

[PooPopsBaldHead]

I’m shocked!!!***
Hell, even a bachelors is worthless if you really think about it. How many people do you know that have a degree related to their profession? Me? I’d say about 10%. No sarcastricks.

Most people outgrow their degrees eventually. I used mine, did well, started my own business somewhat related to the degree, sold it, bought another business completely unrelated and soon enough I will start a small fire late at night and burn this one to the ground for the insurance money. American dream right there.

 

[The Cooterpoot]

I think a good case can be made that the most academically and financially questionable degrees are those that HAVE adapted -- too much! -- to "what's going on in the world."

Nah, we still cling to a general liberal arts degree. We have shortages in so many areas that aren't being addressed. Of course, the TikToc classes are certainly up there.

 

[The Cooterpoot]

I never thought I’d see the day that @The Cooterpoot would make a pro-gender studies post. **

All college kids major in some form of gender classes. Most in smokology, and alcoholism as well.

 

[MagicDawg]

Of course, the TikToc classes are certainly up there.

I think you got my point.

 

[bolddogge]

Also, don't get a masters in art, music, dance, etc. unless you just like to throw money away.

It is my understanding that it's required for instructing at the colligate level. My daughter has a State Music Ed degree and looking for a grad assistantship program to get her master's for that purpose. That would be a significant bump.

 

[The Cooterpoot]

I've considered opening up a technical school. Stripper/pole dancing, auto accessory installation, vape/phone repair, coffee machine operator, spray tan, nail and weave specialist, & how to become a squatter.

 

[dorndawg]

I've considered opening up a technical school. Stripper/pole dancing, auto accessory installation, vape/phone repair, coffee machine operator, spray tan, nail and weave specialist, & how to become a squatter.

ole miss beat you to the punch

 

[bolddogge]

You could simply say college costs too much and it would be the same thing. A masters degree in a lot of disciplines has gotten stupid expensive.

I intended to be finished with school after my BS at State. A few years later I went back, and I picked up my MBA only because my employer offered a program that paid for it. There's no way I would have paid for that out of my own pocket.

 

[Maroon Eagle]

It is my understanding that it's required for instructing at the colligate level. My daughter has a State Music Ed degree and looking for a grad assistantship program to get her master's for that purpose. That would be a significant bump.

In many cases, 18 hours of grad courses in the subject area is the minimum required to teach in colleges but the master degree in the field is definitely preferred.

 

[ETK99]

I intended to be finished with school after my BS at State. A few years later I went back, and I picked up my MBA only because my employer offered a program that paid for it. There's no way I would have paid for that out of my own pocket.

Same here. I went to work for a small company part time while a student. They offered me a job when I finished. I moved up about 6 times over the next few years before settling into an upper-mid level spot. During that time, we got bought out by a large company, & they offered a crap ton of benefits including a free education.

 

[The Cooterpoot]

 

[RocketDawg]

I’m shocked!!!***
Hell, even a bachelors is worthless if you really think about it. How many people do you know that have a degree related to their profession? Me? I’d say about 10%. No sarcastricks.

Close to 100% where I worked.

 

[8dog]

I tell people all the time. Never get a Masters just to get one. You need to be able to draw a straight line to more earning power.