7 years of Pikiell offense: where he stacks up nationally

[anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy]

7 years of pike offense:

National rankings of offensive efficiency KenPom
16-17: 231
17-18: 270
18-19: 152
19-20: 72
20-21: 82
21-22: 96
22-23: 174

National rankings of 3P FG% KenPom
16-17: 336
17-18: 346
18-19: 312
19-20: 295
20-21: 287
21-22: 167
22-23: 295

National rankings of FG% KenPom
16-17: 339
17-18: 347
18-19: 315
19-20: 204
20-21: 168
21-22: 181
22-23: 302

 

[StevieB160]

How do those numbers look the 7 years before that?

 

[DHajekRC84]

How do those numbers look the 7 years before that?

That's a seriously low base.

 

[WhichReligionIsRight]

 

[anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy]

How do those numbers look the 7 years before that?

Eddie jordan worse, mike rice better

 

[MiloTalon13]

Let's revisit this in a year

 

[Knight Shift]

Eddie jordan worse, mike rice better

So what's your point? How bout you post a chart with total and conference W-L records

 

[kcg88]

I don't understand the point being made here. Pikiell went all in on defense so why is shocking the offense has been so bad? Was anybody expecting us to go from the worst power conference team to a consistent top 40 offense, top 40 defense team?

Iowa's defenses have ranked 169th, 80th, 75th, 97th, 111th, 242nd, 123rd the past seven years. Nobody is pretending to not understand why that is.

 

[anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy]

I don't understand the point being made here. Pikiell went all in on defense so why is shocking the offense has been so bad? Was anybody expecting us to go from the worst power conference team to a consistent top 40 offense, top 40 defense team?

Iowa's defenses have ranked 169th, 80th, 75th, 97th, 111th, 242nd, 123rd the past seven years. Nobody is pretending to not understand why that is.

Theres not a team in the top 50 defensively that is worse than us offensively.

Ignoring offense just simply doesnt make sense

 

[SirScarlet]

Theres not a team in the top 50 defensively that is worse than us offensively.

Ignoring offense just simply doesnt make sense

And who would disagree with that?

Now that we are losing again, you're out here banging this drum. But before Mags injury you were literally hanging on to your nuts.

Look...like with all your positions, you just go too far. We all want our offense to improve. Let's have that conversation like adults. You will never convince any rationale or sane person he IGNORES the offense.

But...why do I feel like I just wasted the last 2 mins of my life typing the above...

 

[Knight Shift]

Theres not a team in the top 50 defensively that is worse than us offensively.

Ignoring offense just simply doesnt make sense

Do you really think that is Pike's game plan?
Your agenda is seeping through with each post.
I was wondering in the last day or so when you would surface again, and . . . . .

 

[ScarletKid2008]

People who are suprised the offense has been below average aren’t acknowledging the model being successfully used to rebuild this program.

When pike arrived , no basketball player wanted to be here. None of any kind.

So Pike started to build with defense and underrated kids. The goal was to build an identity and muddy up games enough to give yourself a chance to win.

We did that with more success than anyone could’ve dreamed of. Consecutive tournament runs.

Then pike started attracting recruits who were defense and team focused first.

Just NOW are we in the phase where we are attracting the offensively talented players. Those players haven’t even arrived yet. But it’s the next phase. Enjoy the ride.

 

[MiloTalon13]

Pike has designed his coaching/playing philosophy around the players he has been able to recruit.
He's said he'd change when the players he gets changes - talked about being a high-scoring team when he had the right players at Stony Brook
We'll see - I get the feeling the same people complaining about lack of offense now will complain about not enough defense when we score more and give up more and play at a faster tempo
Some people just aren't happy unless they are unhappy

 

[Shelby65]

Theres not a team in the top 50 defensively that is worse than us offensively.

Ignoring offense just simply doesnt make sense

Sure it does, just ask Schiano.

 

[bethlehemfan]

One of four teams to win 10 big games the last 4 years. We are recruiting better offensive players and the offensive numbers will reflect that.

 

[kcg88]

Theres not a team in the top 50 defensively that is worse than us offensively.

Ignoring offense just simply doesnt make sense

And there are three teams in the entire country with a better defense. He's also not ignoring offense... Spencer and Griffiths are proof of that.

If the point of this post is to say "I wish the offense were better" then... yeah. We all agree.

 

[bethlehemfan]

People who are suprised the offense has been below average aren’t acknowledging the model being successfully used to rebuild this program.

When pike arrived , no basketball player wanted to be here. None of any kind.

So Pike started to build with defense and underrated kids. The goal was to build an identity and muddy up games enough to give yourself a chance to win.

We did that with more success than anyone could’ve dreamed of. Consecutive tournament runs.

Then pike started attracting recruits who were defense and team focused first.

Just NOW are we in the phase where we are attracting the offensively talented players. Those players haven’t even arrived yet. But it’s the next phase. Enjoy the ride.

Good post. Edited original comment - wasn’t very nice.

 

[RUisB1Gtime]

Jimmy's and Joes... recruit kids who can score...He is a very good coach

 

[FinalFourOrBust_rivals142702]

Mad ramblings of a real estate agent

 

[Knight Shift]

So what's your point? How bout you post a chart with total and conference W-L records

Yeah, you won't do it:

National rankings of offensive efficiency KenPom vs. B1G W-L (finishO
16-17: 231 3-15 (14)
17-18: 270 3-15 (14)
18-19: 152 7-13 (10)
19-20: 72 11-9 (5)
20-21: 82 10-10 (6)
21-22: 96 12-8 (4)
22-23: 174 10-10 (9?)

National rankings of 3P FG% KenPom
16-17: 336 3-15 (14)
17-18: 346 3-15 (14)
18-19: 312 7-13 (10)
19-20: 295 11-9 (5)
20-21: 287 10-10 (6)
21-22: 167 12-8 (4)
22-23: 295 10-10 (9?)

National rankings of FG% KenPom
16-17: 339 3-15 (14)
17-18: 347 3-15 (14)
18-19: 315 7-13 (10)
19-20: 204 11-9 (5)
20-21: 168 10-10 (6)
21-22: 181 12-8 (4)
22-23: 302 10-10 (9?)

I don't see a clear trend or correlation.

Let's look at the B1G leaders in FG% and 3 P% this year-- I think what @kyk1827 is saying is that we should be more like Penn State and Ohio State and Nebraska? Because they are clearly better than RU in key offensive metrics. And Northwestern sucks!

Also, the percentage differences in rankings are small enough to be meaningless the most part:

 

[RW90]

Yeah, you won't do it:

National rankings of offensive efficiency KenPom vs. B1G W-L (finishO
16-17: 231 3-15 (14)
17-18: 270 3-15 (14)
18-19: 152 7-13 (10)
19-20: 72 11-9 (5)
20-21: 82 10-10 (6)
21-22: 96 12-8 (4)
22-23: 174 10-10 (9?)

National rankings of 3P FG% KenPom
16-17: 336 3-15 (14)
17-18: 346 3-15 (14)
18-19: 312 7-13 (10)
19-20: 295 11-9 (5)
20-21: 287 10-10 (6)
21-22: 167 12-8 (4)
22-23: 295 10-10 (9?)

National rankings of FG% KenPom
16-17: 339 3-15 (14)
17-18: 347 3-15 (14)
18-19: 315 7-13 (10)
19-20: 204 11-9 (5)
20-21: 168 10-10 (6)
21-22: 181 12-8 (4)
22-23: 302 10-10 (9?)

I don't see a clear trend or correlation.

Let's look at the B1G leaders in FG% and 3 P% this year-- I think what @kyk1827 is saying is that we should be more like Penn State and Ohio State and Nebraska? Because they are clearly better than RU in key offensive metrics. And Northwestern sucks!

Also, the percentage differences in rankings are small enough to be meaningless the most part:

Case in point, amazing how the difference in 3P% between RU and Iowa is only 2.7%!
How is that even possible?

 

[Knight Shift]

Case in point, amazing how the difference in 3P% between RU and Iowa is only 2.7%!
How is that even possible?

Doubt OP will reply. Doesn't fit his narrative on Pike.

 

[mugrat86]

Playing defense the way we do makes players legs very heavy. For example, I would surmise that 90% of Caleb’s missed shots are because they are on target but short. PM, Caleb and Mag’s injuries are the difference in play lately

 

[MiloTalon13]

Case in point, amazing how the difference in 3P% between RU and Iowa is only 2.7%!
How is that even possible?

They took 6 more a game.

 

[MiloTalon13]

Playing defense the way we do makes players legs very heavy. For example, I would surmise that 90% of Caleb’s missed shots are because they are on target but short. PM, Caleb and Mag’s injuries are the difference in play lately

Your theory is that if Caleb didn't play so hard on defense, he'd be much better on offense?
I disagree.
It's not just that Caleb is a poor shooter, his movement, reads and decision-making on offense are bad
It sometimes seems like he doesn't know the plays

 

[anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy]

Yeah, you won't do it:

National rankings of offensive efficiency KenPom vs. B1G W-L (finishO
16-17: 231 3-15 (14)
17-18: 270 3-15 (14)
18-19: 152 7-13 (10)
19-20: 72 11-9 (5)
20-21: 82 10-10 (6)
21-22: 96 12-8 (4)
22-23: 174 10-10 (9?)

National rankings of 3P FG% KenPom
16-17: 336 3-15 (14)
17-18: 346 3-15 (14)
18-19: 312 7-13 (10)
19-20: 295 11-9 (5)
20-21: 287 10-10 (6)
21-22: 167 12-8 (4)
22-23: 295 10-10 (9?)

National rankings of FG% KenPom
16-17: 339 3-15 (14)
17-18: 347 3-15 (14)
18-19: 315 7-13 (10)
19-20: 204 11-9 (5)
20-21: 168 10-10 (6)
21-22: 181 12-8 (4)
22-23: 302 10-10 (9?)

I don't see a clear trend or correlation.

Let's look at the B1G leaders in FG% and 3 P% this year-- I think what @kyk1827 is saying is that we should be more like Penn State and Ohio State and Nebraska? Because they are clearly better than RU in key offensive metrics. And Northwestern sucks!

Also, the percentage differences in rankings are small enough to be meaningless the most part:

All this tells me is that NW is getting upset first round of tourney and that the big ten is *** in basketball haha. Why is it controversial to state frankly undisputed facts that pike isnt even an average offensive coach?

 

[Knight Shift]

All this tells me is that NW is getting upset first round of tourney and that the big ten is *** in basketball haha. Why is it controversial to state frankly undisputed facts that pike isnt even an average offensive coach?

Nice narrative you got there. Why is it difficult for you to see Pike is the best thing to happen to Rutgers mens hoops since 1976? Is he perfect? Who is?

Please do the same offensive analysis for the football coach. You are awfully quiet on that front. Why is that?

 

[MiloTalon13]

All this tells me is that NW is getting upset first round of tourney and that the big ten is *** in basketball haha. Why is it controversial to state frankly undisputed facts that pike isnt even an average offensive coach?

It's a silly, imprecise, inelegant way to phrase it.
If Rutger's offense rises significantly in the next 2-3 years is that because Pikiell became a better offensive coach?
If their defense gets worse, will it be because Pike got worse at coaching defense?

Rutgers's offense has been significantly below average under Pikiell and there are a number of reasons for this.
The biggest reason is one he has addressed with the next two recruiting classes.

 

[anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy]

It's a silly, imprecise, inelegant way to phrase it.
If Rutger's offense rises significantly in the next 2-3 years is that because Pikiell became a better offensive coach?
If their defense gets worse, will it be because Pike got worse at coaching defense?

Rutgers's offense has been significantly below average under Pikiell and there are a number of reasons for this.
The biggest reason is one he has addressed with the next two recruiting classes.

I think the issue to anyone with a set of eyeballs is that we do nothing to put our players in position to succeed on the offensive end in the half court. If you cant see this im sorry, i just dont know what to tell you. We run little to no action in the half court. More often than not its 4 guys idly standing around and one dribbling

 

[NickKnight 1]

I don't understand the point being made here. Pikiell went all in on defense so why is shocking the offense has been so bad? Was anybody expecting us to go from the worst power conference team to a consistent top 40 offense, top 40 defense team?

Iowa's defenses have ranked 169th, 80th, 75th, 97th, 111th, 242nd, 123rd the past seven years. Nobody is pretending to not understand why that is.

Ok, but let's move on. Not stagnate.

 

[MiloTalon13]

More often than not its 4 guys idly standing around and one dribbling

I see a ball screen almost every possession in the half-court lately, that's not 4 guys standing around.
I see (too many) times trying to feed the ball to Cliff in the post
I saw fantastic zoom action - I've posted the video multiple times, earlier in the season

I wish we ran more motion-type action and got back to more zoom for sure, but saying we run little to no action in the half-court is silly. We run something every time, even if it's just a high ball screen.

 

[FinalFourOrBust_rivals142702]

Why even go to college if you’re just gonna become a real estate agent? Seems like a waste of money to me.

 

[anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy]

I see a ball screen almost every possession in the half-court lately, that's not 4 guys standing around.
I see (too many) times trying to feed the ball to Cliff in the post
I saw fantastic zoom action - I've posted the video multiple times, earlier in the season

I wish we ran more motion-type action and got back to more zoom for sure, but saying we run little to no action in the half-court is silly. We run something every time, even if it's just a high ball screen.

Agreed, we do often run a high ball screen. But alot of times its one guy dribbling and 4 watching. I dont really consider a high ball screen an offense tho. Now if you have nba level talent than of course that is fine as its just roll the ball out with nba guys.

Again tho, weirdest thing about RU bball fans is not willing to acknowledge that their coach isnt god.

 

[MiloTalon13]

Agreed, we do often run a high ball screen. But alot of times its one guy dribbling and 4 watching. I dont really consider a high ball screen an offense tho. Now if you have nba level talent than of course that is fine as its just roll the ball out with nba guys.

Again tho, weirdest thing about RU bball fans is not willing to acknowledge that their coach isnt god.

How much basketball do you watch? High ball screens are the most popular offense in basketball. NCAA and NBA.

 

[RUsojo]

7 years of pike offense:

National rankings of offensive efficiency KenPom
16-17: 231
17-18: 270
18-19: 152
19-20: 72
20-21: 82
21-22: 96
22-23: 174

National rankings of 3P FG% KenPom
16-17: 336
17-18: 346
18-19: 312
19-20: 295
20-21: 287
21-22: 167
22-23: 295

National rankings of FG% KenPom
16-17: 339
17-18: 347
18-19: 315
19-20: 204
20-21: 168
21-22: 181
22-23: 302

JY and Ron impact jumps off the page

 

[NewJerseyHawk]

I guess the question is, will the increase in talent that's coming in for 2023 and 2024, be the difference between solid to below average individual talent on offense and above average to very good offense??

I think Iowa is the only program in the B1G that runs elite level offense and they're not advancing beyond winning 1 round in the NCAAs.

Most legitimate CBB experts understand that winning basketball starts and ends on getting stops and rebounds. Offense is mostly dependent on skill level of your players......the more talented the players, the more diversified the offensive sets you can run.

The OP is smart enough to know that he cannot say recruiting has been subpar under Pike (which means we don't have above average B1G level players in comparison to the competition) and then turn around and say those same "below average players", can suddenly outrun, out-jump better athletes defending them.

Let's just agree that if you are well coached, you get stops.....if you recruit better, your offense gets better.

 

[MiloTalon13]

I think Iowa is the only program in the B1G that runs elite level offense and they're not advancing beyond winning 1 round in the NCAAs.

Offense is mostly dependent on skill level of your players......the more talented the players, the more diversified the offensive sets you can run.

Selectively edited to show why I disagree.
Iowa runs the best offense, Iowa scores the most points - Iowa does not have the most talented players
Iowa has the best offensive coach in the country - he teaches offense
Part of their offense is their defense - they push tempo with their defense

 

[biazza38]

Has the offense sucked? Yes
Has recruiting been meh the last couple of years? Yes
Does the future look bright with the guys coming in? Yes
There you go.
I don’t need stats talking about how bad the offense has been. We know it’s been.
Hopefully the 5 star talent helps

 

[mugrat86]

I think the issue to anyone with a set of eyeballs is that we do nothing to put our players in position to succeed on the offensive end in the half court. If you cant see this im sorry, i just dont know what to tell you. We run little to no action in the half court. More often than not its 4 guys idly standing around and one dribbling

How come you only post this type of stuff when team is underperforming? You were very quick to jump on the Pike bandwagon when team was coasting?

Is Pike perfect? Absolutely not. The last play against Minnesota was dreadful that he didn’t pressure in bounds passer, however there would be many suitors if Pike came on open market and our incoming 5 star players believe in him which is enough for most

 

[RutgersDom]

7 years of pike offense:

National rankings of offensive efficiency KenPom
16-17: 231
17-18: 270
18-19: 152
19-20: 72
20-21: 82
21-22: 96
22-23: 174

National rankings of 3P FG% KenPom
16-17: 336
17-18: 346
18-19: 312
19-20: 295
20-21: 287
21-22: 167
22-23: 295

National rankings of FG% KenPom
16-17: 339
17-18: 347
18-19: 315
19-20: 204
20-21: 168
21-22: 181
22-23: 302

Please stop. Or better yet, put this crap to bed and do it again once our more offensive players get here BUT make sure you give him the credit (Not the better offensive players)...LMAO...Broken record...As usual...