A different take on the Manziel autographs

[Buford T. Justice]

I have seen posts about how the NCAA is exploiting these kids. I've seen a tweet from sixpack that says "regardless of how well off you are - if you have a chance to make thousands by signing your name - you do it".

When does integrity come into play? Nobody is forced to play college football. You can go to school like a regular student and take all the cars, clothes, cash that you want. You can also sign all the autographs that you want for a fee. But you sign a piece of paper that says by accepting this scholarship, you will refrain from doing such. I know that if I sign my name to a piece of paper I would honor that to the fullest because of what it says about me as a man. I don't understand why the thought process is "screw what I contractually promised, I'm taking the money". Unfortunately that is where we are as a society. Now maybe the contract is slanted in favor of the NCAA. Fine. Don't sign it. Tell the NCAA to go screw themselves and go to college like everyone else. But if you sign, THEN HONOR IT!

I'm a business owner and deal with contracts every day, mainly because folks are generally not good for their word. Also, I've worked for my two largest customers since 1996 and we've never had a contract. They are men of their word and they know that I am a man of my word. A contract isn't needed with them.

Why is lack of integrity applauded? I'm well aware that I will be mocked for this post.

 

[goindhoo]

there is no integrity in college football. None.

 

[Buford T. Justice]

there is no integrity in college football. None.

Fair enough. You won't get any argument from me. But why? Does that make it okay?

 

[dawgstudent]

He didn't commit a crime. He signed an autograph. If someone offered me thousands to do it - I would sign.

 

[Heawww]

I agree with you Buford. Just because it's the norm and accepted doesn't make it right. I think that's where we go wrong in modern society, in various situations.

 

[Heawww]

No. 1/2/3/etc: It's against the rules. We all have to play by the rules.

Now, if you want to debate the stupidity of the rules, I'm all ears. It's simple, this is a gift. JFF gives away an autograph, fan gives away $1,000 or whatever it was, I haven't read the article. Tax laws apply. If you could ever find proof it happened.

Same with recruits getting paid. It's gifts, nothing more. There isn't **** we should be able to do about this. If some Ole Miss dude wants to give C.J. Johnson a truck, who gives a ****? And who is the NCAA to stop them from doing that?

 

[Rajunbulldog]

I can see why it's against the rules. It could give a school and edge in recruiting. (Larger fan base = more autographs = more money) the selling point to go to a school would then become where you could go to sign more autographs. Then the running back or qb would have to start splitting that with his o-line or they won't block for him. Then the defense wants to play offense. Etc. just a can of worms not worth opening.

 

[dawgstudent]

I do agree that Manziel knew the rules and he has to accept the consequences. But if I had a chance to make 25K by signing my name, I would do it and hope I don't get caught. It's not like he was slinging crack rock.

 

[horshack.sixpack]

I do agree that Manziel knew the rules and he has to accept the consequences. But if I had a chance to make 25K by signing my name, I would do it and hope I don't get caught. It's not like he was slinging crack rock.

I'd like to think that I wouldn't if my parents had major bank...throw me into that brier patch please...

 

[goindhoo]

Yes, because no one is playing by the rules. It's all about not getting caught.

 

[johnson86-1]

Fair enough. You won't get any argument from me. But why? Does that make it okay?

It's not reasonable to expect the athletes to just sit there and take being screwed. The NFL is shut off from them and the NCAA basically has created a monopsony for the services of football players of a certain age. How to handle collusion in league settings is difficult, as there has to be some "collusion" to have a competitive league. But the fact that universities are dumping tons of money into coaches salaries and football facilities in order to compete with recruits shows that the screwing being given to athletes has gotten completely out of hand. Yes, athletes don't have to sign scholarship papers and ideally, people would honor the commitments they make, but the NCAA is not really dealing with the athletes in good faith, so it's a lot to expect the players to just accept the fact that they're powerless and either (a) give up the ability to market their football talents at all or (b) market their football talents at significantly below market value.

 

[BoomBoom.sixpack]

To be clear, the NCAA doesn't say they can't get gifts. They say that once they accept gifts, then they are no longer an amateur.

 

[dawgs.sixpack]

you know, i have largely always been against $$ for gear and autographs and endorsements and what not because fanbases like bama and lsu and uga and ohio st and texas and a&m just have such a shear numbers advantage there that i always thought they'd just take everyone, even the 85th guy on the roster would be able to get a nice chunk of change.

however, i've kinda started thinking differently. of course your 5* guy is likely still going to bama or texas or whatever because they'll get the brunt of the $$, but 99% of those guys are already going to those kinda schools anyway. but i wonder if programs like msu would be able to sway a few more 4* by making them the centerpoints of a class (thus giving them a better opportunity to make the most $$ through gear, autographs, endorsements, etc. on the team) instead of them being buried amidst 10 other 4* and another 5 5* in bama's class.

we couldn't compete at the top end for bama's recruits, but we might could sway some of their middle of the class type guys, and bama's middle of the class type guys are superstuds for us.

maybe it wouldn't work out that way, but i think it's at least a possibility to consider instead of assuming bama (and others) would just stockpile even more 4* and 5* guys.

 

[Rajunbulldog]

Then it just becomes less of a sport and more of a business (to the player anyway.) not like its already business enough.

 

[maroonmadman]

I'd like to think that I wouldn't if my parent's had major bank...throw me into that brier patch please...

^^^THIS^^^ There's no good reason for Manziel to be doing this. His parents are loaded. He's driving a Mercedes. He would have it made for the rest of his life without his football talents. He's just a spoiled over privileged brat. I don't feel sorry for him in the least. If he were some under privileged kid doing this so his family could eat or something I might cut him some slack but he's not. Screw him. He needs to spend a few months hanging around with the Memphis QB and learn the meaning of the words "integrity" and "role model".

 

[121Josey]

He didn't commit a crime. He signed an autograph. If someone offered me thousands to do it - I would sign.

If he wanted to get paid thousands for sigining "an autograph", wait until May - by then it might be worth millions. Just don't sign your name on a napkin before the National Championship game.**

It wasn't that he signed an autograph. He signed a lot of autographs. He got caught because the retailer authenticated the autographs in a batch. The batch revealed that he wasn't signing them for charity.

B. Brett has already determined the fair price for those autographs vs. the amount that he actually got paid.**

 

[Buford T. Justice]

He didn't commit a crime. He signed an autograph. If someone offered me thousands to do it - I would sign.

It's not against the law to cheat on your wife. But when you take an oath to stay faithful, you should. Not because the law makes you, but rather because your character should. I'm not talking about the law. I'm talking about signing a contract (scholarship) where you have given your word to abide by certain rules. Intentionally violating them shows a lack of integrity and character. But the thought seems to be that it's okay to lie if there is money involved.

 

[MSUDC11]

I don't think Manziel gets in trouble over this.

The assistant is a huge asset to him. That guy is going to end up being made to look like Cecil Newton 2.0. Everything will get blamed on him and JFF will claim that he had no knowledge of this.

 

[FirstPoetsThenSunDoggy]

It's black and white to me. He needs to turn in his cleats, and TAM needs to forfeit every game in which he played after this happened. This is not about whether athletes should be paid; it's about cheating.

 

[jakldawg]

Something tells me the dad who seems to have a public axe to grind with Tx A&M over his son's "treatment" or whatever (and apparently has his own stockpile of JFF autographed goodies at the car dealership) wouldn't put up much resistance to the idea of profiting from this kind of thing.

Young Jonathan "Hey pops. Somebody's offered to pay me to put the ol' Johnnny Football Hancock on some stuff. Whaddaya think?"

JFFDAD "We never had this conversation" (winks)

Young Jonathan "So...you're telling me to do it?"

JFFDAD "No, I'm not telling you not to do it" (nudges JFF in ribs)

Young Jonathan "Got it. We still on for punching our unsuspecting friends in the junk tomorrow?"

 

[IBleedMaroonDawg]

It is really getting serious now.


darren rovell ‏<s style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(187, 187, 187); ">@</s>darrenrovell<small class="time" style="font-size: 12px; color: rgb(187, 187, 187); position: relative; float: right; margin-top: 1px; ">16h</small>
Due to NCAA investigation, the Las Vegas Hotel has taken Texas A&M games vs Bama, Arkansas, Ole Miss, LSU & Missouri off the board.


Vegas taking games down is a bad sign for Johnny Fooseball.

 

[dawgstudent]

To compare cheating on your wife to signing an autograph for money is a stretch to me.

I understand your thought process. And I agree that he broke the rules and he is dumb for doing it - but - if someone offered me 25K for me to sign some pictures - I'm signing all day long. Like I said on twitter, as stupid as the rule is, everyone knows the rules so manziel is as careless as the rule is ignorant.

 

[Original48]

I do agree that Manziel knew the rules and he has to accept the consequences. But if I had a chance to make 25K by signing my name, I would do it and hope I don't get caught. It's not like he was slinging crack rock.

I'm from the standpoint of what a garbage move it is to not consider the situation you put your teammates in. He gets caught, they suffer. Its quite evident who Johnny Football is about.

 

[dawgstudent]

This comes out 1 year after he is in the NFL - the fact he got paid for autographs while a student in college - are you ok with it then?

And let me add - I don't like Manziel. I'm not rooting for him.

 

[Original48]

I'm not for anyone who puts themselves and their own needs ahead of the team..regardless of when it happens or gets discovered.

 

[FirstPoetsThenSunDoggy]

I think it's a great comparison because both oaths are of character and integrity. You say you'd do if you had the chance, but I am skeptcal. I like to think that I would not.

 

[Buford T. Justice]

I'm not talking about the law. I'm not talking about the rule and how stupid it is. I am talking about an oath. I am talking about honoring a commitment. Whether the commitment is big (to your spouse) or small, you have given your word as a man to do something (or refrain from doing something). Character and integrity means you would honor your commitment. If he didn't like the rule, he never should have agreed to follow it. I've seen plenty of contracts/agreements where I say "sorry, I'm not signing that because I will not abide by the stipulations in that contract".

I don't like that fact that violating an agreement is okay with everyone and it's no big deal. That is where society has gone.

 

[Beretta.sixpack]

All games that will be within 8 to 8.5 pts....

according to what colin cowherd said this morning. Said vegas values JM as 8 to 8.5 ppg.

In other words, they see us being favored over aTm by more than 8.5 so they didnt take our game off the board.

 

[Heawww]

If it meant possibly being declared ineligible, and you still did it, then you are stupid. Or crazily narcissistic, which is likely the category JFF falls under.

He better hope there is no proof.

 

[DerHntr]

He shouldn't have signed the autographs. Not only do the consequences far outweigh the benefit of some fast cash, he has to look himself in the mirror each day knowing he is not a man of his word. He also has to hope each day he doesn't get that phone call asking if he did it.

He is in a very strange situation with NCAA football. The rules and the norms don't match. Also the rules appear to be extremely one sided. I know in many other real world instances people side with the norms rather than the rules.

For example, how many waiters do you know who could honestly state they have claimed all cash tips on their taxes? The rule says it is tax fraud to not do so. The norm is that everyone does it. The difference here is the entire company isn't nearly shut down if one waitor is caught. The NCAA has further stacked the deck to try to keep athletes from breaking the rules by penalizing everyone on the team.

It is easy for me to say I wouldn't sign the autographs. I could never live with the anxiety of my actions hurting the team.

 

[Hump4Hoops]

Manziel's # might as well be "ME"

 

[karlchilders.sixpack]

Don't think they have played any since.

And it sounds like Sumlin was caught flatfooted on this, hearing it from ESPN.

 

[boatsandhoes]

character and integrity mean doing what is right when no one is watching or will ever find out what you did. It is all over the place from the top down, Arod, to the NFL PA, to Braun and MLBPA, to congress. Deny deny deny until you are unable to do so, creation of doubt or lack of proof ala (omu) football recruiting. As grindhoo says it is about how good you are at covering your tracks says Cecil Newton and Auburn.

Anarchy rules, and if you aren't cheating then you can't compete. In Manziel case, probably can't prove it (cash money). The rules are dumb and made by a corrupt NCAA yet they are the rules. It doesn't say you can't do it, it just says if you do then you are no longer an amateur and can't compete in amateur athletics.

 

[dawgstudent]

Like someone with "back problems"

 

[dawgstudent]

Good points. I'm on your side now. He shouldn't have done it.

If he was poor - do you view it differently?

 

[goindhoo]

If your wife is not being honest with you, should you be honest with her?

 

[Heawww]

Johnny Football still wishes Texas had given him the time of day.

 

[FirstPoetsThenSunDoggy]

Ask Annie.

 

[johnson86-1]

I'm not talking about the law. I'm not talking about the rule and how stupid it is. I am talking about an oath. I am talking about honoring a commitment. Whether the commitment is big (to your spouse) or small, you have given your word as a man to do something (or refrain from doing something). Character and integrity means you would honor your commitment. If he didn't like the rule, he never should have agreed to follow it. I've seen plenty of contracts/agreements where I say "sorry, I'm not signing that because I will not abide by the stipulations in that contract".

I don't like that fact that violating an agreement is okay with everyone and it's no big deal. That is where society has gone.

Let's see if we can put it in terms you would understand. Don't sign contracts you don't want to abide by is a pretty general principle. But to make the marriage analogy work, you have to imagine a world where the government looks the other way while all the marriage officiants make a deal that they will marry anyone, as long as the participants agree to a marriage governed by the rule of Islam. You either agree or don't get to get married at all, and no girl puts out without being married. If that was your choice and you got married, would you really say you voluntarily agreed to the follow Islam, and limit the sticks you used to beat your wife to those no thicker than your thumb? Or would you say it was ******** that the gov't allowed all the marriage officiants to collude to prevent you from having any other options if you wanted to get married, and if the situation calls for a reed thicker than your thumb, by damn you're going to use it?**

 

[Original48]

I'm not sure anyone including yourself consider that bunch a 'team'.