To my knowledge there is no specific protocol about how far a person with a deadly weapon can be before the police engage.
Alton Sterling ---
- Thread starter BigBlueSean_rivals178247
- Start date
- Status
To my knowledge there is no specific protocol about how far a person with a deadly weapon can be before the police engage.
If you can handle that without firing a bullet why cant you handle Alton Sterling without a bullet.... gun or no gun....
yeah this guy isn't a racist
and that picture is fake. harrison ford thinks you're a dope
Bill, no disrespect meant but this below is literally the first paragraph in the link you sent me:
The birth and development of the American police can be traced to a multitude of historical, legal and political-economic conditions. The institution of slavery and the control of minorities, however, were two of the more formidable historic features of American society shaping early policing. Slave patrols and Night Watches, which later became modern police departments, were both designed to control the behaviors of minorities. For example, New England settlers appointed Indian Constables to police Native Americans (National Constable Association, 1995), the St. Louis police were founded to protect residents from Native Americans in that frontier city, and many southern police departments began as slave patrols. In 1704, the colony of Carolina developed the nation's first slave patrol. Slave patrols helped to maintain the economic order and to assist the wealthy landowners in recovering and punishing slaves who essentially were considered property.
Sounds pretty cut and dry to me.
I'm not trying to be racist, I don't know what to tell you. I was just saying I have no clue about the WHY. We grew up a family of 5 in a two bedroom apartment, our next door neighbors were black. I was friends with their youngest. All was good, great people, no issues, I'm sure he's successful now. You seem successful. To me, in this country, all you really need to do is read a book and you're good to go. That's what I did. Read my textbooks 2/3 hours a day - made A's - and voila! I was set for life. That's the beauty of america. Why isn't that happening more in the black community? No clue. I have no clue and am not pretending to know. I'm not answering any why's. All I said in my original post is that it looked like murder and it seems to happen more to black people than any others. No clue how I've got myself mixed up in all these different arguments. What you said I'm sure is true. I'm not passing judgement.
What victories? There is a problem...have to find the truth of the problem to try to find solutions. Spouting meaningless #s to make points doesn't help with anything.
Let me clear this up for you. Take me out of the "black power" folks. I am simply a human being who recognizes the humanity in everyone. I happen to be black therefore my experiences are black ones. I don't want any power.
No, thats not the first pargraph, in fact I didn't see that anywhere on the link. Here's the first 2 paragraph's.
The development of policing in the United States closely followed the development of policing in England. In the early colonies policing took two forms. It was both informal and communal, which is referred to as the "Watch," or private-for-profit policing, which is called "The Big Stick” (Spitzer, 1979).
The watch system was composed of community volunteers whose primary duty was to warn of impending danger. Boston created a night watch in 1636, New York in 1658 and Philadelphia in 1700. The night watch was not a particularly effective crime control device. Watchmen often slept or drank on duty. While the watch was theoretically voluntary, many "volunteers" were simply attempting to evade military service, were conscript forced into service by their town, or were performing watch duties as a form of punishment. Philadelphia created the first day watch in 1833 and New York instituted a day watch in 1844 as a supplement to its new municipal police force (Gaines, Kappeler, and Vaughn 1999).
Appreciate the honesty there. I am just feed up man. Apologies if I bit your head off there. I am relatively successful by American standards. The issue is people like Heisman and S & C wouldn't see me that way if I walked past them on the street. That's what needs to be fixed. Stop attributing things to "the blacks" or "the black community" at your leisure. Black people are just that, people. Individuals. I don't appreciate the fact that its that easy for me to become that to those types of people.
[laughing]
I mean, holy ****. the societal concept of law enforcement personnel did not exist in the history of human civilization until the North American continent in the 18th century? And the reason for its creation was the problem of slavery escapees?
[laughing]
Weird how I got there. Here is the link I found. Must have been God doing his work. Please read the entirety of the page and understand what that means for what we see today.
http://plsonline.eku.edu/insidelook/brief-history-slavery-and-origins-american-policing
TRY READING! It is fundamental you know.
http://plsonline.eku.edu/insidelook/brief-history-slavery-and-origins-american-policing
Also, for a bonus point. Police as we know it were started around the 1700's by French and German's. The societal concept of police in the United States is based upon catching slaves. Period. Try harder next time man.
This was covered in another thread. Fix the homes in the inner cities and things will improve. Parents and other family members have to take an active role in raising their children, that's not just a black thing, that's an everyone thing.
Dude, I got accused of the same thing my FR year at UK. All because I put forth effort in the final paper! Biatch of a professor gave me an "F" and told me to write my own paper next time. lol
By far, the police are not the greatest threat to black males in this country. For ratings sake, the media love to focus on the very few unjustified police shootings of black males that occur. However, the real epidemic is black on black killings.
Last edited:
I see.
You and your family immigrated here legally, worked hard, and are living the American dream. You are not committing crimes, you are not shooting other people, and you are not selling dope to single mothers raising 5 children while helping to create the cycle. This is the why, which unless you put it in proper context, you're going to be confused by the means. Large portions of the AA community are riddled with violence and drugs/crime. Therefore they take up a huge piece of the pie in regards to police interactions of all sorts.
As an educated person I'm sure you've had basic statistics courses that teach how to interpret charts and graphs. I'm sure you've had college algebra courses showing that without the formula, you can't solve the problem. Not sure why you'd not understand how important knowing the populous percentages is in determining why it happens. And if the why isn't important, then the whole issue isn't even worth discussing.
But if your only point is that black men are disproportionally confronted by police more than whites, then yea, they are. But that's not indicative of anything other than individual action. That's what I'm getting at.
I'm going to blow up your notifications because you thought you were cool.
A paragraph from the article I sent Bill which shows police in America started around the same time as it did across the water. Try and keep up.
Policing was not the only social institution enmeshed in slavery. Slavery was fully institutionalized in the American economic and legal order with laws being enacted at both the state and national divisions of government. Virginia, for example, enacted more than 130 slave statutes between 1689 and 1865. Slavery and the abuse of people of color, however, was not merely a southern affair as many have been taught to believe. Connecticut, New York and other colonies enacted laws to criminalize and control slaves. Congress also passed fugitive Slave Laws, laws allowing the detention and return of escaped slaves, in 1793 and 1850. As Turner, Giacopassi and Vandiver (2006:186) remark, “the literature clearly establishes that a legally sanctioned law enforcement system existed in America before the Civil War for the express purpose of controlling the slave population and protecting the interests of slave owners. The similarities between the slave patrols and modern American policing are too salient to dismiss or ignore. Hence, the slave patrol should be considered a forerunner of modern American law enforcement.”
No need to apologize and I understand. My wife is blonde haired green eyed and I've basically become a white person in society now. When we moved to the states and all had accents and dressed like idiots we were treated pretty awful to how I'm treated now. I've had random old white men say racist things to me (not at me) thinking I would agree with him thinking I was white. Overall I feel how much better I'm treated now than how I was or how my dad is treated with his thick accent, and how angry it made me. It did light a fire under my *** to do well in school though at least, but I know if I was black it would be something that you can never escape. I do wish the guy will smith portrayed in pursuit of happiness was more a norm in the black community though, if you want me to be honest, but I understand there are reasons why that's not possible for most.
How can you honestly say that the police were formed simply to catch slaves? That is utter nonsense, and I suspect thats what you want to believe.
Do you think people didn't break the law or if they did the regular folks just threw their hands up? Why hell no.
Do you honestly believe the police force was enacted to catch slaves?
One more time for the people in the back!!!
Though having white skin did not prevent discrimination in America, being White undoubtedly made it easier for ethnic minorities to assimilate into the mainstream of America. The additional burden of racism has made that transition much more difficult for those whose skin is black, brown, red, or yellow. In no small part because of the tradition of slavery, Blacks have long been targets of abuse. The use of patrols to capture runaway slaves was one of the precursors of formal police forces, especially in the South. This disastrous legacy persisted as an element of the police role even after the passage of the Civil Rights Act of 1964. In some cases, police harassment simply meant people of African descent were more likely to be stopped and questioned by the police, while at the other extreme, they have suffered beatings, and even murder, at the hands of White police. Questions still arise today about the disproportionately high numbers of people of African descent killed, beaten, and arrested by police in major urban cities of America
Bill! C'mon man! It's literally right there for you to see. In the United States of America that was there job numero uno. Before the enactment of these patrol things were done through community policing with shared responsibility from all in the community.
But that's the thing. I can't really say that. I don't know the why. You think its because of individual action, I really don't know. Maybe its part that and part cops are truly racist like some say? Maybe its part that and part they have no choice because they aren't given choices in their neighborhoods? I sincerely have no clue, and I don't really want to act like I know. I'm sure the answer is somewhere in the middle, like pretty much everything else is.
Some of these are priceless.
1. The race-baiters cannot seem to make up their mind. Is it integration you want because most of the time, self segregation is taught. I thought blacks wanted more blacks in their neighborhood, right?
2. Which has more crime? Suburbs or the inner city? Why the hell would you go to a place that hardly has any crime? This is like condemning a fisherman for going where there's more fish.
3. Black neighborhoods don't have the same opportunity but don't you ***** every time more opportunity and businesses come into the area? Isn't that why gentrification is always hated on? Also, are you acting shocked that businesses and banks don't want to go to areas known for high crime? After every riot where blacks loot and riot and destroy, you're shocked that businesses don't want to take that chance?
5. What exactly is your solution here? These cops are surrounded by and see the worst garbage on a daily basis. You want them to live in high crime areas? Maybe they wouldn't need police as much if these areas would police their own communities and do their best to get rid of the criminal element as opposed to enabling it?
There's just no GD consistency in these arguments. You're not interested in any solutions or realities short of "White people are evil and the cause of all problems and blacks are innocent." But somehow, miraculously, Asian Americans are a smaller portion of the country, have a culture that is the complete opposite of black culture and are incredibly successful and avoid high crime rates.
[
The key question, of course, is what was it about the United States in the 1830s that necessitated the development of local, centralized, bureaucratic police forces? One answer is that cities were growing. The United States was no longer a collection of small cities and rural hamlets. Urbanization was occurring at an ever-quickening pace and old informal watch and constable system was no longer adequate to control disorder. Anecdotal accounts suggest increasing crime and vice in urban centers. Mob violence, particularly violence directed at immigrants and African Americans by white youths, occurred with some frequency. Public disorder, mostly public drunkenness and sometimes prostitution, was more visible and less easily controlled in growing urban centers than it had been rural villages (Walker 1996). But evidence of an actual crime wave is lacking. So, if the modern American police force was not a direct response to crime, then what was it a response to?
More than crime, modern police forces in the United States emerged as a response to "disorder." What constitutes social and public order depends largely on who is defining those terms, and in the cities of 19th century America they were defined by the mercantile interests, who through taxes and political influence supported the development of bureaucratic policing institutions. These economic interests had a greater interest in social control than crime control. Private and for profit policing was too disorganized and too crime-specific in form to fulfill these needs. The emerging commercial elites needed a mechanism to insure a stable and orderly work force, a stable and orderly environment for the conduct of business, and the maintenance of what they referred to as the "collective good" (Spitzer and Scull 1977). These mercantile interests also wanted to divest themselves of the cost of protecting their own enterprises, transferring those costs from the private sector to the state.
It wasn't in the link I posted
The key question, of course, is what was it about the United States in the 1830s that necessitated the development of local, centralized, bureaucratic police forces? One answer is that cities were growing. The United States was no longer a collection of small cities and rural hamlets. Urbanization was occurring at an ever-quickening pace and old informal watch and constable system was no longer adequate to control disorder. Anecdotal accounts suggest increasing crime and vice in urban centers. Mob violence, particularly violence directed at immigrants and African Americans by white youths, occurred with some frequency. Public disorder, mostly public drunkenness and sometimes prostitution, was more visible and less easily controlled in growing urban centers than it had been rural villages (Walker 1996). But evidence of an actual crime wave is lacking. So, if the modern American police force was not a direct response to crime, then what was it a response to?
More than crime, modern police forces in the United States emerged as a response to "disorder." What constitutes social and public order depends largely on who is defining those terms, and in the cities of 19th century America they were defined by the mercantile interests, who through taxes and political influence supported the development of bureaucratic policing institutions. These economic interests had a greater interest in social control than crime control. Private and for profit policing was too disorganized and too crime-specific in form to fulfill these needs. The emerging commercial elites needed a mechanism to insure a stable and orderly work force, a stable and orderly environment for the conduct of business, and the maintenance of what they referred to as the "collective good" (Spitzer and Scull 1977). These mercantile interests also wanted to divest themselves of the cost of protecting their own enterprises, transferring those costs from the private sector to the state.
Ok. Let's say I lied Bill (actual I did additional research and mixed up my links) please read the below statement and tell me how that does not make a case for slave patrols being one of the main, if not the main function of early police.
The birth and development of the American police can be traced to a multitude of historical, legal and political-economic conditions. The institution of slavery and the control of minorities, however, were two of the more formidable historic features of American society shaping early policing. Slave patrols and Night Watches, which later became modern police departments, were both designed to control the behaviors of minorities. For example, New England settlers appointed Indian Constables to police Native Americans (National Constable Association, 1995), the St. Louis police were founded to protect residents from Native Americans in that frontier city, and many southern police departments began as slave patrols. In 1704, the colony of Carolina developed the nation's first slave patrol. Slave patrols helped to maintain the economic order and to assist the wealthy landowners in recovering and punishing slaves who essentially were considered property.
Policing was not the only social institution enmeshed in slavery. Slavery was fully institutionalized in the American economic and legal order with laws being enacted at both the state and national divisions of government. Virginia, for example, enacted more than 130 slave statutes between 1689 and 1865. Slavery and the abuse of people of color, however, was not merely a southern affair as many have been taught to believe. Connecticut, New York and other colonies enacted laws to criminalize and control slaves. Congress also passed fugitive Slave Laws, laws allowing the detention and return of escaped slaves, in 1793 and 1850. As Turner, Giacopassi and Vandiver (2006:186) remark, “the literature clearly establishes that a legally sanctioned law enforcement system existed in America before the Civil War for the express purpose of controlling the slave population and protecting the interests of slave owners. The similarities between the slave patrols and modern American policing are too salient to dismiss or ignore. Hence, the slave patrol should be considered a forerunner of modern American law enforcement.”
The legacy of slavery and racism did not end after the Civil War. In fact it can be argued that extreme violence against people of color became even worse with the rise of vigilante groups who resisted Reconstruction. Because vigilantes, by definition, have no external restraints, lynch mobs had a justified reputation for hanging minorities first and asking questions later. Because of its tradition of slavery, which rested on the racist rationalization that Blacks were sub-human, America had a long and shameful history of mistreating people of color, long after the end of the Civil War. Perhaps the most infamous American vigilante group, the Ku Klux Klan started in the 1860s, was notorious for assaulting and lynching Black men for transgressions that would not be considered crimes at all, had a White man committed them. Lynching occurred across the entire county not just in the South. Finally, in 1871 Congress passed the Ku Klux Klan Act, which prohibited state actors from violating the Civil Rights of all citizens in part because of law enforcements’ involvement with the infamous group. This legislation, however, did not stem the tide of racial or ethnic abuse that persisted well into the 1960s.
Though having white skin did not prevent discrimination in America, being White undoubtedly made it easier for ethnic minorities to assimilate into the mainstream of America. The additional burden of racism has made that transition much more difficult for those whose skin is black, brown, red, or yellow. In no small part because of the tradition of slavery, Blacks have long been targets of abuse. The use of patrols to capture runaway slaves was one of the precursors of formal police forces, especially in the South. This disastrous legacy persisted as an element of the police role even after the passage of the Civil Rights Act of 1964. In some cases, police harassment simply meant people of African descent were more likely to be stopped and questioned by the police, while at the other extreme, they have suffered beatings, and even murder, at the hands of White police. Questions still arise today about the disproportionately high numbers of people of African descent killed, beaten, and arrested by police in major urban cities of America.
That was that professors opinion, and yours. Clearly the professor I linked, also from EKU, had a different opinion.
So you didn't actually open the link I posted, you saw it was from EKU as well and jumped to a conclusion it was the same. Hmm, thats interesting especially in this topic.
You claim to care about humanity, what about the THOUSANDS of people stop and frisk has saved? What about the elder AA couple who has benefited greatly from that model? Murders were reduced in undeniable fashion in every city that implemented it.
Why the hell would a police station assign stop and frisk/ more law enforcement to those areas? Well duh, because thats where most of the criminal element is, and lots of black people actually want it, they're just afraid to say it because of blacks like you, who back criminals at every turn and will make them out to be some sort of evil uncle tom because they want to be safe.
Your comment about slavery and police shows just how delusional, paranoid, and unreasonable you are. It's not even worth a response. Without the American police, over half of the black population would be hunted down and slaughtered by their own. You've got some nerve.
Most of these clack communities have actually gotten worse since the 60's, and because of this ridiculous self loathing mindset, it's gonna get worse.
police are just like you, me, and everyone else. There are different shades.
Most police are under paid, under appreciated, and they put their lives on the line in criminal communities to try and get it under control. Without them the damage to said communities would be absolutely devastating.
I still don't know why police departments don't just pull all white cops out of these areas and if theres enough blacks to patrol then fine, if not, no police. This is whats going to happen: The overall black murder rate will shoot up, and whites would still be blamed.
You were a poor immigrant who came here and obviously lives like a king relative to the rest of the world. You seem to have worked hard, played by the rules, and it didnt matter that you're not "white". They have it how they have it because of individual action.
Your arguments are so extremely racist in tone and "facts" they are hard to refute. I will attempt to do that here.
1. See what I'm saying. This is utter dribble. Next.
2. One statistic states that black folk are more likely to be arrested for drug crimes while using drugs at the same rate as whites. You start shaking down housewives in the suburbs and I bet you'll find something there too.
3. If a new business comes to a black neighborhood but doesn't hire any of the people that live there then all they are doing is getting cheap land.
4. You skipped four in your genocidal anger
5. To top it off another nonsensical point.
6. I decided to add a point to take care of your last paragraph. Asians were not brought to America during its inception made to work the land and bolster this country as the richest in the world only to be treated as second class citizen until this day. Completely different histories.
Asians, Philipino etc didnt have to deal with being enslaved in this country as their history and having things like Jim Crow Law shape and effect their culture. Its not comparable at all.
You want a business, like a bank, to want to set up in crime riddled communities why? So either the people in that community can hold it up or worse, burn it to the ground? Do you think wealthy Americans got that way by being stupid? Just remember every riot you see where blacks are burning down their own ****, that's another 1,000 businesses you'll never see.
You're blind as a bat and have a lot of nerve.
Please enlighten us more on the Western tradition. I need the laughs.
Hell there are MULTIPLE crime stats that even lump Asian Americans etc in together as "white". not even close to the same histories.
And if you honestly believe and refute that Jim Crow Law, early police and slavery didnt play major roles in creating a negative culture for african americans in this country you are living in a false reality.
And if you honestly believe and refute that Jim Crow Law, early police and slavery didnt play major roles in creating a negative culture for african americans in this country you are living in a false reality.
- Status