Anybody been to the Ark Park yet?

[Cawood86_rivals]

How was she diagnosed? Was there a biopsy? Spots on a scan can be a lot of things and is not automatically Cancer.

My mom was diagnosed 3 months ago via a biopsy of the tumor tissue. She had A PET scan and several MRIs. They showed that it appeared to be small, localized and operable. She had surgery 3 days ago and the surgeon aborted the operation after finding that it was much bigger than the scans indicated and had spread.

My mom is a devout Christian, as is her entire side of the family. They have been praying fervently. Docs give her a few short months of filled with agonizing pain.

First of all. Prayers for your mother. We took her to the ER for a kidney stone. They did x-rays and a CAT scan. Saw the spots and sent her for a biopsy. Came back positive for cancer. Then sent her for the full scans and found 5 spots in her lungs, 3 spots in her brain and one on her liver.
I am sorry to hear about your mother's sickness. I will be praying for her and your family sincerely. I know how helpless that feeling can be, wanting to help and get rid of their pain.

 

[FutureCityCats_rivals]

How was she diagnosed? Was there a biopsy? Spots on a scan can be a lot of things and is not automatically Cancer.

My mom was diagnosed 3 months ago via a biopsy of the tumor tissue. She had A PET scan and several MRIs. They showed that it appeared to be small, localized and operable. She had surgery 3 days ago and the surgeon aborted the operation after finding that it was much bigger than the scans indicated and had spread.

My mom is a devout Christian, as is her entire side of the family. They have been praying fervently. Docs give her a few short months of filled with agonizing pain.

Hey IdaCat. So sorry about your mom. FCC.

 

[FutureCityCats_rivals]

Ida, how's life going? Don't get to talk much. I think last we talked, you had started new job. How's that going? Did your daughter finish college and what's she doing now? Hope all is well man. My kids, one graduated HS this last go, and this coming year will have one in HS, one in MS and one in Elem. Spread out. FCC.

 

[Cawood86_rivals]

I'm happy for your Mother, but for every story like that, there are thousands that "prayer and faith" did nothing to alleviate the problem.

One that stands out to me was a lifelong friend of mine's young daughter was diagnosed with cancer. There was nothing to be done except chemo and radiation. Someone advised them to take her to "Benny Hinn". The mother was desperate and was willing to try anything. Sure enough, somehow they got her on stage and Benny "healed" her. They went back to the doctor and he (allegedly) said her cancer was gone. They were naturally ecstatic and was relieved that is was over. Six months later, the daughter was dead.

I'm not against prayer or religion, but I am a realist. I don't have the "faith" that some do because to me it's blind faith and it's really hard for me to grasp. Who knows what is true and what isn't.

I know of those stories to as well. All I know to say is that faith does work. I know it does. I also know that reality is that there will be something that will take us out of this life. God has been good to my family. My dad passed away from prostate cancer. MY son was healed from cancer he had at 6 months old. He is 22 now. He had a schaunoma(I'm sure that spelling is wrong). It came up as a red bump on the back of his head.
I know some will say why didn't God heal your dad? I don't know the answer. I know we all have a limited time on this earth. Something will take our life. Just how it is.

 

[DaBossIsBack]

I know of those stories to as well. All I know to say is that faith does work. I know it does. I also know that reality is that there will be something that will take us out of this life. God has been good to my family. My dad passed away from prostate cancer. MY son was healed from cancer he had at 6 months old. He is 22 now. He had a schaunoma(I'm sure that spelling is wrong). It came up as a red bump on the back of his head.
I know some will say why didn't God heal your dad? I don't know the answer. I know we all have a limited time on this earth. Something will take our life. Just how it is.

Some more limited than others. What was their "plan"?

 

[Cawood86_rivals]

Some more limited than others. What was their "plan"?

I grew up around very, very poor people. Very poor. So what's your point? That God doesn't exist because there are poor and sick people? Jesus even said " The poor you have with you always." You think that there should be some sort of Utopia on earth to prove God exists?

 

[UKserialkiller]

Cat in the Hat- I owe you an apology. You were right. I was wanting to admit the other night, but my stubbornness kept me from it. Shame and guilt are two separate feelings. But I am right in regards that you can't feel guilt unless you learn shame first. There is a parasitic influence with guilt and shame. and if you cut one, you kill the whole feeling. (Hence my focus on the concluding feeling rather than pre-requisite dividing the two)

My apologies. But there is nothing natural about it.

 

[DaBossIsBack]

I grew up around very, very poor people. Very poor. So what's your point? That God doesn't exist because there are poor and sick people? Jesus even said " The poor you have with you always." You think that there should be some sort of Utopia on earth to prove God exists?

Why would God intervene with your mother but leave millions of innocent people to suffer? Yeah yeah. He works in mysterious ways.

 

[AustinTXCat]

@cat_in_the_hat : I know brother Willy off-line from this board. He has worked miracles for my family, especially my mother, as she now has advanced dementia. I firmly trust and embrace his opinions on all things related thereto. I am not arguing with you, but rather just stating he is an acknowledged expert in his field at the professional level.

 

[UKserialkiller]

@cat_in_the_hat : I know brother Willy off-line from this board. He has worked miracles for my family, especially my mother, as she now has advanced dementia. I firmly trust and embrace his opinions on all things related thereto. I am not arguing with you, but rather just stating he is an acknowledged expert in his field at the professional level.

Thanks Austin. Hope Mom is thriving. If not, I understand too.


But I did argue with him and he was right "technically." But I was right in the psycho pathology that he doesn't understand.

 

[Ron Mehico]

Could someone possibly use a more horrific example for god than to bring up cancer? Wow.

 

[UKserialkiller]

Could someone possibly use a more horrific example for god than to bring up cancer? Wow.

So God only gets the recognition for the good things in life?

Guess Satan gets the blame for Cancer.

 

[AustinTXCat]

Cancer sucks. Been there, done that, got the effen T-shirt. (giggles and usual evil laugh).

**** happens, bro. Ya gotta keep on going regardless. Die another day. Disappoint the SOBs to the extreme. Love the one's you're with. Fight 'em until hell freezes over and then fight their GD asses out on the ice.

 

[cat_in_the_hat]

Cat in the Hat- I owe you an apology. You were right. I was wanting to admit the other night, but my stubbornness kept me from it. Shame and guilt are two separate feelings. But I am right in regards that you can't feel guilt unless you learn shame first. There is a parasitic influence with guilt and shame. and if you cut one, you kill the whole feeling. (Hence my focus on the concluding feeling rather than pre-requisite dividing the two)

My apologies. But there is nothing natural about it.

Willy, I very much appreciate your apology. You don't see much of that on a message board, so it says a lot about your character. If I said anything to offend you, I would also like to apologize. Sometimes I pick out one little thing in something that someone posts that I think is wrong and I can't help but respond. In the grand scheme of things, I usually don't really care that much about the point, but I post anyway. I really think it comes from boredom and trying to break the monotony of work. I should have just let it go to begin with.

 

[Cawood86_rivals]

Why would God intervene with your mother but leave millions of innocent people to suffer? Yeah yeah. He works in mysterious ways.

I understand the question. I don't have all the answers. Innocent people have always been victims of suffering. Human suffering doesn't mean that God is not real. I know there is awful oppression happening in places on a scale I can't fathom. A lot of that is because of evil that exists in men's hearts. Jesus told his disciples that they would be killed because they believed and followed him even as he himself was.
Many countries oppose Christianity and do so with violence. Such as been the way from the beginning.

 

[cat_in_the_hat]

I understand the question. I don't have all the answers. Innocent people have always been victims of suffering. Human suffering doesn't mean that God is not real. I know there is awful oppression happening in places on a scale I can't fathom. A lot of that is because of evil that exists in men's hearts. Jesus told his disciples that they would be killed because they believed and followed him even as he himself was.
Many countries oppose Christianity and do so with violence. Such as been the way from the beginning.

My only comment about this is that don't discount free will. Nobody has all the answers with respect to God, but it is important to remember that God does not restrict free will. Man's free will causes a lot of suffering the world.

 

[We-Todd-Did]

Could someone possibly use a more horrific example for god than to bring up cancer? Wow.

Good point. I propose that, from now on, we substitute bot flies for cancer. They gross me out and serve no purpose either.

 

[UKserialkiller]

Willy, I very much appreciate your apology. You don't see much of that on a message board, so it says a lot about your character. If I said anything to offend

You didn't. You called me out. I was wrong. (Slightly-Still maintaining the parasitic view of shame/guilt-hahaha). But at least I admit it. All I say is Cat in the Hat- when you are in a line of field like mine, almost 100% of cognitive distortions are due to a shame/guilt connection. I dunno if the taught shame will lead to guilt (which brings up your sociopathic and psycho pathology (serial killers) questions.

Look man. you gained a new appreciation for me (not that it matters to you). I pulled up some ******** research from the NIH in a drunken haze and then tried to rationalize a study after you called me out on it. You're right. You won't see that much on message board much less society.

 

[DaBossIsBack]

I understand the question. I don't have all the answers. Innocent people have always been victims of suffering. Human suffering doesn't mean that God is not real. I know there is awful oppression happening in places on a scale I can't fathom. A lot of that is because of evil that exists in men's hearts. Jesus told his disciples that they would be killed because they believed and followed him even as he himself was.
Many countries oppose Christianity and do so with violence. Such as been the way from the beginning.

No it doesn't. But I think it's a good indicator that God, if he/she/whatever exists, doesn't intervene in our lives. Why would he give brother Jim a job and cure his wife's disease, but ignore Susie who is getting raped and murdered and pleading with God to make it stop? If he is capable of doing one then he is capable of doing the other. And if he is capable and allows it then he is one sick dude.

 

[Cawood86_rivals]

No it doesn't. But I think it's a good indicator that God, if he/she/whatever exists, doesn't intervene in our lives. Why would he give brother Jim a job and cure his wife's disease, but ignore Susie who is getting raped and murdered and pleading with God to make it stop? If he is capable of doing one then he is capable of doing the other. And if he is capable and allows it then he is one sick dude.

No it doesn't. But I think it's a good indicator that God, if he/she/whatever exists, doesn't intervene in our lives. Why would he give brother Jim a job and cure his wife's disease, but ignore Susie who is getting raped and murdered and pleading with God to make it stop? If he is capable of doing one then he is capable of doing the other. And if he is capable and allows it then he is one sick dude.

John the Baptist was beheaded in prison. Many of his disciples died horrible deaths. Jesus died a horrible death

 

[Ukbrassowtipin]

I have some truth for you. My mother was diagnosed with cancer two months ago. We took her to the emergency room for a kidney stone and they found it then. She was sent and had full body scans done. She had five spots on her lungs. Three spots on her brain and one on her liver. She went for another last week at the same place. Wednesday we went to the doctor for the results. He took us in his office and showed us both scans side by side. The spots on her lungs were gone. The spots in her head were gone and the spot on her liver.
His words exactly were " I don't know what happened. This is a miracle" I know you won't believe it or will try to deny it. This is what he does everyday. He's an Oncologist. No chemo. No radiation. Prayer and faith.
You can keep your truth. I will keep mine. Those spots were not done away with by treatment.
I don't care if you believe me or if you mock me. Faith in Jesus Christ is stronger than anything you can come up with. You can't stop it. You can't defeat it. You won't eliminate it and you won't change me or millions of others. All you have is hate. Hate of Christians. Hate of those that have faith in something you think is silly and a fairy tale. Others on here make comments and it's mostly done in a way light hearted way.
You and a couple others take it to the extreme. You hate Christians. You hate that they get to have a voice and have the freedom to teach their beliefs. Thankfully, nothing you say or do matters regarding Christianity.
There are those who can be civil and polite when it comes to this topic. You are not one of those and I am done with holding back. You need prayer and need it badly. Wherever this hate comes from, it can go away and the only way it can is through Jesus Christ. I will pray for you. I will do that even though don't want it or believe it because the Love of God is stronger than anything else.

What about the people it didn't happen for? Children die of cancer and starvation everyday. Why is one chosen over another? Simply not knowing why something happens doesn't make it an act of God. Science isn't at its limit. Why is this hard to understand. Things will continually advance and knowledge will grow. Beliefs in magic will be diminished. Even when proof is put in front of you, you refuse to believe it so it's a useless cause.

Hell I'm curious why you even took her to the hospital to begin with with all that magic they use found by scientists...just pray it away next time.

Also things have happened for complete non believers. And non believers arent automatically evil as you assume, thas absurd. Still need someone to point out where pedophilia, rape, animal cruelty, slavery, etc are in the commandments or discouraged in general. They arent. Yet people still know it's wrong.

Jesus was a great role model, no one can deny that. But believing in an infinite universe that God just picked one speck of the planet to worry about one species of primate is silly. And yes, we share more DNA with chimps than Cats do with Lions. And we have several of the missing links...that date millions of yrs...not this silly few thousand yrs

 

[Chuckinden]

A couple things that bugs me is when people say God has a plan for everyone. If that's the case, why should you pray for someone? If it's God's plan that person is sick, then how will praying help?

Another is those that say "God is good" when something good happens to someone, but what about when something bad happens, they don't say "God is bad". You can't have it just one way.

 

[Ukbrassowtipin]

 

[.S&C.]

Ya know, a lot of these questions are answered when you seek the answers. As in, bible groups, church, speaking with religious leaders in your communities ect. I mean, some of these are easily answered but one must accept the answer. And that's the beauty of what God has done. A good bit of believing is understanding you're not going to have all the answers, and that's ok. We're not expected to understand. Of course, modern day humans believe theyre entitled to all the answers, every day, every minute. It's more of a confliction than anything.

I've always found that through prayer and repentance, I find more and more. It's weird actually, and not easily explained.


This is the part about most agnostics / supposed atheist that I find troubling. If you have car questions, you go to a mechanic. Heart trouble you go to the doctor. Don't understand quantum mechanics in college you see your professor.

And then,

Tons of questions about Christianity and God, yet seem too prideful to simply speak to a someone who might have some answers.

I think the reason is most of them have made up their mind because through the conditioning of life, humans become angry with God. Look at most of the questions in this very thread.

Why cancer
Why pray for help
Why do children die.
Why is there suffering.

And it's the same story nearly every single time. But I tell all my friends who are non believers, if it makes ya boy feel better, why not be open to it? IMO as long as the door is at least left open,even slightly, There's a way in.

I also know quite a few atheist who've reversed themselves. God actually does interact with people at different times, and I'm sure even an agnostic / atheist would agree, ya never know when an opinion can change.

Just my opinion of course. More of an observation.

 

[Ukbrassowtipin]

Also can anyone name a time in history when someone or a group has declared a war, slaughtered, enslaved, oppressed, etc people in the name of there being nothing or science? That's to not get it twisted..not someone who declared war and who may not believed in something but there intentions were something else. Specifically and for the reason in the name of there being no God or Science. It's never happened.

Now how many times have those things happened specifically in the name of God or a god, or for him or for religion? Well since religions started and all the way to presently.

I'd love to see someone say Hitler, considering he referenced God several times in Mein Kampf, and how God created the Aryan nation...so he believed there was one. However, his intentions weren't in God's name so I wouldn't count it either way.

 

[jameslee32]

Cat in the Hat- I owe you an apology. You were right. I was wanting to admit the other night, but my stubbornness kept me from it. Shame and guilt are two separate feelings. But I am right in regards that you can't feel guilt unless you learn shame first. There is a parasitic influence with guilt and shame. and if you cut one, you kill the whole feeling. (Hence my focus on the concluding feeling rather than pre-requisite dividing the two)

My apologies. But there is nothing natural about it.

Naturally. [laughing]

 

[IdaCat]

Ida, how's life going? Don't get to talk much. I think last we talked, you had started new job. How's that going? Did your daughter finish college and what's she doing now? Hope all is well man. My kids, one graduated HS this last go, and this coming year will have one in HS, one in MS and one in Elem. Spread out. FCC.

Hi FCC. Doing well here, for now at least. My daughter married 5 years ago. Her and he husband lived with us while they both finished college. They gave me my first grandchild back in December. He's great. My son-in-law is now a CPA. Spent the day with him driving to Salt Lake looking at used cars. We had a good time, but no luck. Hope yours are all doing well.

BTW, the Idaho sky is the most beautiful anywhere. Thanks to you all for the kind words about my mom.

 

[Cawood86_rivals]

What about the people it didn't happen for? Children die of cancer and starvation everyday. Why is one chosen over another? Simply not knowing why something happens doesn't make it an act of God. Science isn't at its limit. Why is this hard to understand. Things will continually advance and knowledge will grow. Beliefs in magic will be diminished. Even when proof is put in front of you, you refuse to believe it so it's a useless cause.

Hell I'm curious why you even took her to the hospital to begin with with all that magic they use found by scientists...just pray it away next time.

Also things have happened for complete non believers. And non believers arent automatically evil as you assume, thas absurd. Still need someone to point out where pedophilia, rape, animal cruelty, slavery, etc are in the commandments or discouraged in general. They arent. Yet people still know it's wrong.

Jesus was a great role model, no one can deny that. But believing in an infinite universe that God just picked one speck of the planet to worry about one species of primate is silly. And yes, we share more DNA with chimps than Cats do with Lions. And we have several of the missing links...that date millions of yrs...not this silly few thousand yrs

I think you hit all the usual rhetoric. Believe what I told happened or don't. Your smart aleck attitude does not lend itself to civil conversation. I never said all non believers were evil. That's a complete lie by you. I will discuss things, thoughts, or views, but I won't waste time with someone who just wants to mock and attack. Have a nice day.

 

[AustinTXCat]

Nine pages. The Paddock rarely disappoints.

 

[RonEJones]

Again, you're butchering the meaning and the word. Stop trying understand something you're not going to allow yourself to understand in the first place. You're wasting your time. You look to the bible to find contradictions only, not to understand the real meaning.\

Just saying.......why misinterpret and continue to ask questions when there is no answer you'll accept minus "everything came from 0".

And of course, like I always say, nothing like a good ole atheist claiming the logical side while holding the most illogical opinion in history.

What meaning is there other than literal? Also, if you can't take this story literally, then what is the "pick and choose" process to let me know literal from not literal?

I am asking for facts and counterpoints. All you keep saying is I can't understand because I don't want to. I don't see any rebuttals; just insults. Makes me think you can't rebut - which makes sense.

I've read the bible and it's full of crazy stories, outlandish claims, contradictions and absurdities. Of course it's going to take more than "have faith" or "because I said so" to make me believe. But because you were brainwashed to believe this fairy tale and are either not smart or strong enough to see it for what it is - a fairy tale - you think everyone is out to poo poo on your bedtime story.

As far as being an atheist, I rely on proven science. And if science one day proves there's a creator, then I'm logical enough to get in line.

Again, the difference with science is nothing's sacred. There's no "I'm right, you just don't understand". Theories are constantly challenged and the search for truth is constant and objective.

Open your mind and let the doubt creep in. It in there, SC. Once the fog clears, you may actually like what you see.

 

[.S&C.]

What meaning is there other than literal? Also, if you can't take this story literally, then what is the "pick and choose" process to let me know literal from not literal?

I am asking for facts and counterpoints. All you keep saying is I can't understand because I don't want to. I don't see any rebuttals; just insults. Makes me think you can't rebut - which makes sense.

I've read the bible and it's full of crazy stories, outlandish claims, contradictions and absurdities. Of course it's going to take more than "have faith" or "because I said so" to make me believe. But because you were brainwashed to believe this fairy tale and are either not smart or strong enough to see it for what it is - a fairy tale - you think everyone is out to poo poo on your bedtime story.

As far as being an atheist, I rely on proven science. And if science one day proves there's a creator, then I'm logical enough to get in line.

Again, the difference with science is nothing's sacred. There's no "I'm right, you just don't understand". Theories are constantly challenged and the search for truth is constant and objective.

Open your mind and let the doubt creep in. It in there, SC. Once the fog clears, you may actually like what you see.

Well I didn't expect to win Paddock poster of the week with that post so.

It's impossible to be an atheist IMO. And there's plenty of science that points to creation. Won't get into all of it here for obvious reasons. It's at your fingertips. I think you'd admit you're not interested in our proof so why would I spend 20 minutes explaining something you're not going to try and understand? God simplified everything and some of us still think we came from 0. The ones who claim "science" leave out that little issue. Everything comes from nothing. Got it. Great science.

 

[DaBossIsBack]

Well I didn't expect to win Paddock poster of the week with that post so.

It's impossible to be an atheist IMO. And there's plenty of science that points to creation. Won't get into all of it here for obvious reasons. It's at your fingertips. I think you'd admit you're not interested in our proof so why would I spend 20 minutes explaining something you're not going to try and understand? God simplified everything and some of us still think we came from 0. The ones who claim "science" leave out that little issue. Everything comes from nothing. Got it. Great science.

Who created God?

 

[sparkstoestheline]

What is the minimum it takes to get into heaven?

 

[.S&C.]

Some of these questions are funny.

Somewhere there's a freshman philosophy course with your name on it.[laughing]

 

[DaBossIsBack]

Some of these questions are funny.

Somewhere there's a freshman philosophy course with your name on it.[laughing]

You talking to me professor? You're the one who keeps regurgitating the same bs. "Came from nothing." Sounds like you haven't had a science class beyond middle school.

 

[.S&C.]

You talking to me professor? You're the one who keeps regurgitating the same bs. "Came from nothing." Sounds like you haven't had a science class beyond middle school.

I regurgitate the same BS?

Why is there suffering?
Who created God
Where does evil come from if God made everything?

Just sounds like a basic philosophy 101 course. The same old same old. No matter how many times these questions are answered its not good enough, and rinse repeat. Don't forget to ask about trees falling in the woods, and the color paradigm while we're at it.

You've got to admit, speaking of science, the belief that everything in existence was formed from "the nothing" is rich. Go ahead and try to form something from nothing, since it obviously should be easy to replicate. If everything came from nothing we'd see that cycle everywhere. The problem is We don't see it anywhere. If science to you is the belief that nothing is nothing then becomes everything, then I'd say common sense doesn't rule the day.

And its all regurgitated. Hell, atheist use the same points over and over, never accepting any explanation. They want to point to science which really only to explains how gods creation works. None of it points to no creator, at all. Draw a picture and just ask yourself. The nothing (which is what scientist refer to as everything pre-big bang)on the left, a starting point for the big bang, then spread it forming a chart of space and time. Ending on the right with earth and today. If you honestly believe the theory of everything from "the nothing" makes perfect sense while looking at it, and reject the idea that putting a creator in the spot of "the nothing" kind of explains the picture, then fine. Nothing will prove it to you. But don't claim science disproves God because it's completely false. Large numbers of Scientist have tried for years to disprove God and they can't. They never will either. There are many scientist who believe a creator is the only thing that makes sense. Don't forget about those.

 

[DaBossIsBack]

I regurgitate the same BS?

Why is their suffering?
Who created God
Where does evil come from if God made everything?

Just sounds like a basic philosophy 101 course. The same old same old. No matter how many times these questions are answered its not good enough, and rinse repeat. Don't forget to ask about trees falling in the woods, and the color paradigm while we're at it.

You've got to admit, speaking of science, the belief that everything in existence was formed from "the nothing" is rich. Go ahead and try to form something from nothing, since it obviously should be easy to replicate. If everything came from nothing we'd see that cycle everywhere. The problem is We don't see it anywhere. If science to you is the belief that nothing is nothing then becomes everything, then I'd say common sense doesn't rule the day.

And its all regurgitated. Hell, atheist use the same points over and over, never accepting any explanation. They want to point to science which really only to explains how gods creation works. None of it points to no creator, at all. Draw a picture and just ask yourself. The nothing (which is what scientist refer to as everything pre-big bang)on the left, a starting point for the big bang, then spread it forming a chart of space and time. Ending on the right with earth and today. If you honestly believe the theory of everything from "the nothing" makes perfect sense while looking at it, and reject the idea that putting a creator in the spot of "the nothing" kind of explains the picture, then fine. Nothing will prove it to you. But don't claim science disproves God because it's completely false. Large numbers of Scientist have tried for years to disprove God and they can't. They never will either. There are many scientist who believe a creator is the only thing that makes sense. Don't forget about those.

I read about half of that. You don't believe something can come from nothing. Ok. Yet you believe that a being has just always existed and created everything. Hahaha It's turtles all the way down.

 

[.S&C.]

I read about half of that. You don't believe something can come from nothing. Ok. Yet you believe that a being has just always existed and created everything. Hahaha It's turtles all the way down.

Keep pointing to science when you believe something that is scientifically impossible.

We'll just disagree.

 

[Brushy Bill]

FWIW, space-time is part of God's creation. He exists outside of space-time and does require a beginning or end for that matter.

 

[DaBossIsBack]

Keep pointing to science when you believe something that is scientifically impossible.

We'll just disagree.

For the record I'm not sold on the Big Bang.