Anybody been to the Ark Park yet?

[cat_in_the_hat]

Man, no offense. But what are you talking about? That absolutely makes no sense.

Look, I'll put it in your own biblical terms. Adam and Eve were given commands (taught) that they should not do. What did Eve do? She went against God's word. What happened to the once free and liberal Eve who was running around the Garden of Eden butt *** naked with Adam and his large Caucasian penis hanging out? They covered that **** up. Why? Because God taught them shame. Everything that happened to those wiley and crazy couple was the response of shame.

Shame is taught. Just like anxiety. Fear is taught. All conditioned behaviors.

It makes perfect sense.

First, God didn't teach them shame. Eating from the tree of knowledge of good and evil gave them the understanding of good and evil.

Second, in response to your second post about my response, I wasn't arguing whether shame is taught or not. I was arguing that guilt does not require shame. Guilt is associated with knowing you did something wrong and feeling that you should not have done it. If it required shame, then actions that no one else would ever find out about would never cause anyone to feel guilt, but people feel guilt all the time about actions that no one else knows about, or will ever find out about. Guilt is driven by your own perception of right and wrong, not the perception of someone else.

 

[UKserialkiller]

It makes perfect sense.

First, God didn't teach them shame. Eating from the tree of knowledge of good and evil gave them the understanding of good and evil.

hahahaha. You have no clue what you are talking about and you're a Christian. Genesis 3:3.

 

[UKserialkiller]

No, God told them not to eat it. That "understanding" resulted in shame. Keep going.......

 

[UKserialkiller]

Cat and in the Hat, you're trying to skirt around the source of Adam and Eve's understanding of how they acquired shame.

 

[P.PattersonISwalkingthruthatdoor]

did the species of tree that bestowed knowledge of good and evil make it on the Ark?

 

[cat_in_the_hat]

Cat and in the Hat, you're trying to skirt around the source of Adam and Eve's understanding of how they acquired shame.

The tree was the source, but what does any of that have to do with the point I was making in the first place?

 

[Bill Derington]

Willy, I don't guess I understand what you're getting at exactly. Are you saying there should be no right or wrong?
Shame and guilt are brought by disappointing or hurting someone, either a loved one or yourself.

 

[UKserialkiller]

The tree was the source, but what does any of that have to do with the point I was making in the first place?

Because in Genesis 3:3 God specifically told them, and I am quoting God, "Don't eat the fruit".

He said it. He instructed them. He taught them.

That understanding you are talking about is Genesis 3:6.

 

[UKserialkiller]

Willy, I don't guess I understand what you're getting at exactly. Are you saying there should be no right or wrong?
Shame and guilt are brought by disappointing or hurting someone, either a loved one or yourself.

Bill. Someone had to teach you those things were wrong.

 

[cat_in_the_hat]

Because in Genesis 3:3 God specifically told them, and I am quoting God, "Don't eat the fruit".

He said it. He instructed them. He taught them.

That understanding you are talking about is Genesis 3:6.

What does that have to do with the point I was making?

 

[UKserialkiller]

What does that have to do with the point I was making?

You have no point. God taught them shame. He gave them an order. They disobeyed it. Eating the fruit did not give them the understanding.

 

[UKserialkiller]

Willy, I don't guess I understand what you're getting at exactly. Are you saying there should be no right or wrong?
Shame and guilt are brought by disappointing or hurting someone, either a loved one or yourself.

and you know what Bill, there are people taught to hurt other people, even people they love.

Religion doesn't own morals. There isn't act of morality that a Christian can do that an Atheist can't.

 

[UKserialkiller]

No wonder most of the older adults I see in clinical therapy are hard abiding Christians. Got shame issues out the ***.

 

[cat_in_the_hat]

You have no point. God taught them shame. He gave them an order. They disobeyed it. The fruit did not give them the understanding.

You are skirting the debate. I am not, and have never been, debating about whether or not shame is natural or taught. My point was that you don't need shame to feel guilt. You can keep trying to debate whether God taught them shame, and whether shame is a natural feeling or taught, but I don't care either way because that was never a part of my original post that you commented on.

 

[UKserialkiller]

You are skirting the debate. I am not, and have never been, debating about whether or not shame is natural or taught. My point was that you don't need shame to feel guilt. You can keep trying to debate whether God taught them shame, and whether shame is a natural feeling or taught, but I don't care either way because that was never a part of my original post that you commented on.

Yes you do. Because guilt is a negative emotion. No one feels happy guilt.

Please provide me the info on beneficial guilt.

 

[UKserialkiller]

You are skirting the debate. I am not, and have never been, debating about whether or not shame is natural or taught. My point was that you don't need shame to feel guilt. You can keep trying to debate whether God taught them shame, and whether shame is a natural feeling or taught, but I don't care either way because that was never a part of my original post that you commented on.

Which is exactly why you don't understand shame. But keep going. I deal people like you all the time. In person, I just have more patience.

 

[Bill Derington]

Bill. Someone had to teach you those things were wrong.

I completely agree.

 

[UKserialkiller]

Cat in the Hat, tell me the last time you felt happy from being guilty of something you felt you did wrong.

This is where I will quit entertaing this insanity

 

[cat_in_the_hat]

Yes you do. Because guilt is a negative emotion. No one feels happy guilt.

Please provide me the info on beneficial guilt.

Why would feeling happy guilt be a requirement for feeling guilt not to require feeling shame?

 

[oldsports_]

Separation of church and state all the way. I don't want any religious beliefs encroaching into public education because if one is allowed, they all will eventually.

Hows that "In God We Trust" on your money working out for ya?

 

[UKserialkiller]

Why would feeling happy guilt be a requirement for feeling guilt not to require feeling shame?

It's paradoxical. Because I don't think you understand. Guilt and shame are one. There is no separation.

 

[cat_in_the_hat]

It's paradoxical. Because I don't think you understand. Guilt and shame are one. There is no separation.

I don't agree. Sorry.

 

[UKserialkiller]

I don't agree. Sorry.

It's not your choice to agree.

 

[UKserialkiller]

What's ironic. You felt need to tell me sorry. hahahaha

 

[UKserialkiller]

Which tells me that you are waaaay over you're head.

 

[cat_in_the_hat]

Which tells me that you are waaaay over you're head.

Yeah, right. You are entertaining, that's for sure. Here is what I am talking about.https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/shame/201305/the-difference-between-guilt-and-shame

 

[UKserialkiller]

Yeah, right. You are entertaining, that's for sure. Here is what I am talking about.https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/shame/201305/the-difference-between-guilt-and-shame

You googled some phd blogger in attempt to try to prove your point when you had no clue what you are talking about.. Jesus Christ.
Even in his own blog he outlined the definition of both which proves my point. And he starts out mentioning that they go hand in hand. hahaha Everything I said.

Then he goes on to rationalize it. Wow. some blogger. Good research Cat.

 

[Guess Who]

Just a thought but does that monstrosity have fire sprinklers? [winking]

 

[cat_in_the_hat]

You googled some phd blogger in attempt to try to prove your point when you had no clue what you are talking about.. Jesus Christ.
Even in his own blog he outlined the definition of both which proves my point. And he starts out mentioning that they go hand in hand. hahaha Everything I said.

Then he goes on to rationalize it. Wow. some blogger. Good research Cat.

It's more than you have shown to back up your point. Actually the definitions don't prove your point, if you understand them. Second, he gives very real examples of how certain people can feel one, but not the other. If this is all you got, it's not really worth my time.

 

[UKserialkiller]

It's more than you have shown to back up your point. Actually the definitions don't prove your point, if you understand them. Second, he gives very real examples of how certain people can feel one, but not the other. If this is all you got, it's not really worth my time.

you didn't prove **** Cat. Nothing. I'm on the money and some random phd blogger doesn't have enough credibility to challenge the establishment on shame. But... If that's what you want to hang your hat on. Go for it.

I can bring up umpteem amount of research to piss all over some blogger. I'm not wasting my time with someone who can't even understand basic concepts. I'm not sorry.

 

[cat_in_the_hat]

you didn't prove **** Cat. Nothing. I'm on the money and some random phd blogger doesn't have enough credibility to challenge the establishment on shame. But... If that's what you want to hang your hat on. Go for it.

I can bring up umpteem amount of research to piss all over some blogger. I'm not wasting my time with someone who can't even understand basic concepts. I'm not sorry.

Basic concepts you have no clue about. Here is some more research for you. Enjoy the education, but you have to have an open mind.http://www.wsj.com/articles/guilt-v...er-isnt-and-how-to-tell-them-apart-1415038844

 

[UKserialkiller]

Basic concepts you have no clue about. Here is some more research for you. Enjoy the education, but you have to have an open mind.http://www.wsj.com/articles/guilt-v...er-isnt-and-how-to-tell-them-apart-1415038844

No need for your links. I have an education on this subject and am quite successful in emotional disorders. Especially in teaching guilt and shame. Do I need I actually need to link you evidenced based research? Is this what it has come down to? haha

 

[DaBossIsBack]

did the species of tree that bestowed knowledge of good and evil make it on the Ark?

Nope. God chopped that **** down. It served its purpose. Moved the plot forward. And now he can damn every one to hell. Which could have all been prevented had he not planted that damn tree. But he's a sick bastard and that's why I love the guy.

 

[jameslee32]

you didn't prove **** Cat. Nothing. I'm on the money and some random phd blogger doesn't have enough credibility to challenge the establishment on shame.

NOOOO!! Not the establishment!!!

 

[UKserialkiller]

NOOOO!! Not the establishment!!!

[laughing]

 

[UKserialkiller]

Cat, you can stick with the bloggers. (which mostly are uninformative Christian think tanks-which is ironic to Genesis 3:3 and 3:6-but whatever). And I'll stick with the National Institute of Health (NIH).

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25419043


Going by that study. Amazing how Science works, Eve's depression from shame can be proven by a National Institute of Health study from 2008. That's if Eve even existed, which she didn't.

 

[Free_Salato_Blue]

First Santa now EVE!

 

[AustinTXCat]

Come on, folks, we're roughly 91 posts away from the initial 8.5 page goal.

 

[Tinker Dan]

Here is my contribution...... 90

 

[allabouttheUK]

I seriously don't get the uproar over this thing. I'm not religious by any means, but I'm not a hater either. I understand that there are millions of Christians in this country and the Ark will be a huge draw for them, and I say awesome! It's a beautiful ship, and fits in some peoples version of events. It's also creating jobs, and bringing in loads of cash for the state, and I'm all for that. To me it's really not much different than a planetarium and I freakin love those things.