The more I see highlights of Griffin and hear him speak the more I think he could end up being an incredible pro QB. He has got a great head on his shoulders, is an accurate passer,and hisathleticism is nearly as good as Michael Vick. Thats not to say that Luck is not going to be good as well but I can see Griffin being the bigger star.
Anyone else think Robert Griffin might end up being better than Andrew Luck?
- Thread starter Hanmudog
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The more I see highlights of Griffin and hear him speak the more I think he could end up being an incredible pro QB. He has got a great head on his shoulders, is an accurate passer,and hisathleticism is nearly as good as Michael Vick. Thats not to say that Luck is not going to be good as well but I can see Griffin being the bigger star.
I'm not so sure about Luck for some reason. He looks picture perfect on paper...but so did Ryan Leaf. I just have a feeling with him I guess. Might just be gas.
I think Griffin could be next year's Cam if he works hard enough, which he seems to have good work ethic.
I think Griffin could be next year's Cam if he works hard enough, which he seems to have good work ethic.
I don't see any real correlation with where a player is drafted and how good of a pro he turns out to be. Most of the starting QBs in the NFL were low round draft picks, and at least half the 1st round picks turn out to be complete busts. It's almost atotal crapshoot.
hmmm...most starting QBs are low round picks?
eagles - vick - 1st
redskins - grossman - 1st(after tonight rg3 - 1st)
nyg - eli - 1st
cowboys - romo - undrafted
packers - rodgers - 1st
bears - cutler - 1st
lions - stafford - 1st
vikings - ponder - 1st
saints - brees - 2nd
panthers - cam - 1st
falcons - ryan - 1st
bucs - freeman - 1st
49ers - smith - 1st
seahawks - flynn - can't remember the round, but he was low, maybe 5th?
cardinals - kolb - 2nd
rams - bradford - 1st
patriots - brady - 6th
jets - sanchize/tebow - both 1sts
bills - fitzgerald - low round/undrafted
dolphins - moore - low round/undrafted
ravens - flacco - 1st
steelers - big ben - 1st
bengals - dalton - 2nd
browns - mccoy - 3rd (i think, might have been 2nd)
texans - schaub - 3rd i think
titans - locker - 1st
jaguars - gabbert - 1st
colts - after tonight luck - 1st
broncos - peyton - 1st
raiders - palmer - 1st
chargers - rivers - 1st
chiefs - cassel - 6th or 7th
so yeah, i'm not syaing there aren't a lot of busts, but it is blatantly false to say most starting NFL QBs were low draft picks. i think only 5were low round picksor undrafted. </p>
eagles - vick - 1st
redskins - grossman - 1st(after tonight rg3 - 1st)
nyg - eli - 1st
cowboys - romo - undrafted
packers - rodgers - 1st
bears - cutler - 1st
lions - stafford - 1st
vikings - ponder - 1st
saints - brees - 2nd
panthers - cam - 1st
falcons - ryan - 1st
bucs - freeman - 1st
49ers - smith - 1st
seahawks - flynn - can't remember the round, but he was low, maybe 5th?
cardinals - kolb - 2nd
rams - bradford - 1st
patriots - brady - 6th
jets - sanchize/tebow - both 1sts
bills - fitzgerald - low round/undrafted
dolphins - moore - low round/undrafted
ravens - flacco - 1st
steelers - big ben - 1st
bengals - dalton - 2nd
browns - mccoy - 3rd (i think, might have been 2nd)
texans - schaub - 3rd i think
titans - locker - 1st
jaguars - gabbert - 1st
colts - after tonight luck - 1st
broncos - peyton - 1st
raiders - palmer - 1st
chargers - rivers - 1st
chiefs - cassel - 6th or 7th
so yeah, i'm not syaing there aren't a lot of busts, but it is blatantly false to say most starting NFL QBs were low draft picks. i think only 5were low round picksor undrafted. </p>
luck's athleticism are more comparable to cam newton's than tebow's. and he still throws better than cam.futaba said:
i think luck has merely suffered from beingconsidered the #1 pick for 3 years now.he was on the radar for so long that people are looking for anything they can to downgrade him and arecaught up with RG3. i think both are great prospects, but anyone that watched luck work the pocket like peyton manning or brady just knowing when to side step a rusher and buy himself time without running the ball knows that he's the best pro QBprospect since peyton.
Sutterkane woya said:
leaf was a crazy ******* when he was in college. it's why he went #2 behind peyton. yeah he had great physical tools, but a lot of scouts and temas were scared about his mental makeup. that's not the case with luck who is a great student, humble, and looking to learn.
if anything luck is the guy that's been the future #1 pick for 3 years (like peyton) and RG3 is the new guy on the block that everyone is drooling over as they get tired of luck for the last 3 years (like leaf).
fwiw, i think they both have much better mental makeup than leaf though.
OK maybe a lot. I think Sesh is right, a lot of it is the Brady effect (also guys like Romo and Warner, even though he's not in the league any more). I do stand by my statement that at least half of all high draft pick QBs (top 5-10 picks) are busts though.
I have seen many pundits say a comparison to Mike Vick is crazy, actually many were offended when some people made that comparison. I actually think its pretty accurate, both fast, both throw a nice ball, though RG3 probably has a better head on his shoulders. To me it comes down to which type of quarterback wins superbowls. Can you name the last quarterback like RG3 who won a superbowl? There isn't one, look at the quarterbacks who win superbowls, usually tall, thick, pocket passers, etc.(Drew Brees is the exception, not the norm). To me RG3 looks very slight and would not be surprised to see him very injured at some point during his first season or two. Despite the pundits who say RG3 is not a "running quarterback", I watched many of his games and when the pocket broke down, he ran. If the point of drafting a quarterback is to find one that will win a superbowl, I say RG3 has a very low probability. By the way, the two scouts who were ripped by the media for saying he had alot of bad tape and character issues, they were right about the tape. The best pass defense he played against was Texas and they were ranked 46th in the nation. I am not saying he will not be good, but he would not be my guy.
do i have to defend RG3 too now? dude completes 70something% of his passes (i don't think vick completed more than 50% in college). he also only ran when the pocket broke down. he's not a shifty elusive guy, but he has great straight ahead speed. he only ran for 600something yards each of the last 2 seasons, averaging ~4 ypc. for comparisons sake andrew luck ran for 450+ his soph season at over 8 ypc. RG3 is NOT a spread option QB, but is a good throwing QB who happens to be extremely fast if he gets in the open field.<div>
</div><div>i think luck is the safer pick, but i think RG3 and luck will both be very good to great NFL QBs.</div>
</div><div>i think luck is the safer pick, but i think RG3 and luck will both be very good to great NFL QBs.</div>
go watch a breakdown of RG3's throwing motion and tebow's throwing motion and get back to me.<div>
</div><div>also, go watch the types of passes they were making. i think RG3 led the nation is yards per completion and yards per attempt, which meant he threw it downfield accurately. a lot. tebow didn't do that, he used dump offs to fluff up his completion %.</div>
</div><div>also, go watch the types of passes they were making. i think RG3 led the nation is yards per completion and yards per attempt, which meant he threw it downfield accurately. a lot. tebow didn't do that, he used dump offs to fluff up his completion %.</div>
Tebow -9.3 yards per attempt
Griffin - 8.7 yards per attempt
Lots of QBs have great stats in the no-defense Big 12 and don't do **** in the NFL. I'm not saying Griffin's going to be a bust at all. He may be a great QB. But nobody really has a clue right now. Even people who get paid a lot of money to evaluate QB's have a very spotty record at predicting which college QB is going to be a great NFL QB and which one is going to be a bust.
Griffin - 8.7 yards per attempt
Lots of QBs have great stats in the no-defense Big 12 and don't do **** in the NFL. I'm not saying Griffin's going to be a bust at all. He may be a great QB. But nobody really has a clue right now. Even people who get paid a lot of money to evaluate QB's have a very spotty record at predicting which college QB is going to be a great NFL QB and which one is going to be a bust.
<div>you are neglecting RG3 completing 6+% more passes his last year of college and his better throwing mechanics. you also aren't considering the difference between actually throwing deep and throwing underneath and picking up yac. hard to find a breakdown of completion % 15+ yards down field and under 15 yards though. especially for tebow in college.</div>
Once again, it comes down to which type of quarterback wins superbowls. Look at the quarterbacks who won superbowls over the past decade, does RG3 remind you of any of them. In my opinion, no, he does not. RG3 may be good, who knows. Jon G made a good point. Many of his throws were short bubble screens that his wideouts ran for big yards. He throws a nice deep ball, so what, when you have a good receiver and play terrible defenses, those things happen. I look at his pass stats with a grain of salt. As I said earlier, the best pass defense he played against was Texas, who ranked 46 in the nation. He will be exciting to watch, but I would be willing to bet that he never wins a superbowl. When you draft a quarterback at number 2, you think he will win you a superbowl. History is not on their side.
Here are the last 10 quarterbacks who won a superbowl, does RG3 remind you of any of these? I don't know about you, but these quarterbacks are really fast when the pocket breaks down....
Eli Manning
Aaron Rogers
Drew Brees
Big Ben
Eli
Peyton Manning
Big Ben
Tom Brady
Brad Johnson
Tom Brady
Eli Manning
Aaron Rogers
Drew Brees
Big Ben
Eli
Peyton Manning
Big Ben
Tom Brady
Brad Johnson
Tom Brady
dont you? It means the average yards per completion is even more in Tebow's favor. Both QBs threw the ball deep and threw it short. I'm not saying Tebow is a better passer than Griffith. I don't think he is. But think about this. How many QBs have put up gaudy stats in the Leach/Briles/Mumme school of coaching? How many of those have done much of anything in the NFL?</p>
dawgs said:
They throw more "bubbles" than ANYBODY! They work the deep ball off the "bubble". How 17 hard is it to throw a "bubble"? My 8yr old son is a QB & he throws bubble screens. You don't have to be THAT good to throw that route! I'm not saying he's bad or isn't that good but didn't he have a WR drafted in last night? Did Luck? Fleener's STILL in the draft. And the comment about "Griffin has a better head on his shoulders" is freakin stupid! Luck has 3 plays before they walk to the line of scrimmage (ala Peyton) and audibles based on what he sees. RG3 (and Gruden even said this) has a play for a WR and ONLY looks at that WR? And you said he has a better "head on his shoulders"? Don't trust me, listen to what Gruden (a former NFL coach) said. Luck's physique is better for the NFL as well. Griffin's too thin for HIS SKILL SET (ala Vick). Which is why Vick stays hurt, and if your not on the field your NOT helping your team win. RG3 is good, but he's part of a good system. RG3 will probably have a better rookie & possibly better 2nd yr record too. Because he has a better TEAM waiting for him. But Luck will have a better career.
recall the exact name of the stat, but I did see it pre-draft. He had less YAC than the other QBs, more actual yards in the air.
i've already said i think luck is better (go up in the thread). i just don't understand why preferring one over the other means the other sucks and won't amount to anything. comparing RG3 to vick is ludicrous because vick is a shiftier runner, runs more often, and is/was a far worse passer than RG3. if anything i would say RG3 is more like a faster mcnabb.i'm also am fully aware and have made the comment/argument here and elsewhere that luck didn't have the talent at WR that RG3 had.
so yeah, they both look to have great futures, and there isn't anythign about either one that makes me doubt their abilities in the NFL, i just like luck a little better because i think he's more polished. he's a peyton manning type with cam newton speed. i think RG3 has more to learn as far as a true NFL passing game, but i don't see anything to indicate he won't be capable to handle shanahan's offense which relies more on a QB capable of rolling out and bootlegging and limiting the passing options by getting the QB outside the pocket.
so yeah, they both look to have great futures, and there isn't anythign about either one that makes me doubt their abilities in the NFL, i just like luck a little better because i think he's more polished. he's a peyton manning type with cam newton speed. i think RG3 has more to learn as far as a true NFL passing game, but i don't see anything to indicate he won't be capable to handle shanahan's offense which relies more on a QB capable of rolling out and bootlegging and limiting the passing options by getting the QB outside the pocket.
thank you. i spent probably 30 minutes watching baseball tonight and trying to find that number last night, but glad someone else saw it too.
*luck would still be my #1, i just think they both have bright futures
**it's ridiculous that you can't think both guys could be good, and have to put up a disclaimer when praising one of them to keep from getting attacked for thinking the other will suck
*luck would still be my #1, i just think they both have bright futures
**it's ridiculous that you can't think both guys could be good, and have to put up a disclaimer when praising one of them to keep from getting attacked for thinking the other will suck
Baylor throws the bubble to set up the go. If he throws 2 bubbles to get the corners & S to play up they fake the bubble as the blocker slips past the CB & S and your right it's not YACs.....HE'S WIDE OPEN 40+yds down the field! Plus Gruden said they come to the huddle w/ a play for a specific WR and he doesn't look ANYWHERE else! Ummm, that's not gonna work in the NFL. You know what does? Film study, the ability to diagnose a defense pre-snap. Luck ALREADY DOES THIS & HAS DONE THIS THE LAST 2 YEARS!
Mallett had some good ones, Harrell from TT, and hell even Andre Ware had great highlights. But none really ammounted to anything either. So you can keep you highlights, i'll take my check downs, reading of defenses & consistancy.
that a dumb statement to make like it's fact. there have only been a couple of true elite speed guys to play significant time at QB. hell vick and cunningham are really the only 2 i can think of. big sample size there buddy. for decades guys that fast were stuck at RB or WR or CB.jcd5816 said:
we are really only beginning to see the first generation of football players where they weren't moved to another skill spot because of their speed, instead they have been allowed to stay at QB, so in 15 or 20 years we'll actually have a reasonable sample size.<div>
</div><div>4.3 doesn't win you a super bowl, but it doesn't prevent you from winning a super bowl either. RG3 isn't a vick type fast QB either. anyone that's watched film knows that. he's a throw 1st, then run if necessary kinda guy. you seem to be saying it's a negative for a QB to be fast. that makes no sense at all. sure it's not a requirement, but a fast QB that doesn't run just to run and knows when to go down or get out of bounds or throw it away isn't going to subject himself to extra big hits. you are basically saying a 4.3 sped guy playing QB is too unintelligent to recognize when he needs to get rid of the ball and when to use his speed to run.</div><div>
</div><div>*again, i like luck better, just pointing out some of the stupid **** people are saying like it's a fact a fast QB will never win a super bowl without any proof.</div>
Ok, I should have said it highly unlikely that a 4.3 QB will never win a super bowl, my bad.... This argument is getting tiresome. I would point out that the Washington Redskins have a terrific record of drafting QB's......."
"you are basically saying a 4.3 sped guy playing QB is too unintelligent to recognize when he needs to get rid of the ball and when to use his speed to run."
Please read through any of my post and find where I said this. The only thing I pointed out was that RG3 ran a 4.3 and there has never been a quarterback to win the super bowl who has. I don't know why, but I find it a relevant fact. No, it does not mean it will never happen, but hey, one day liberals might let us drill on Anwar and the NRA might give up guns.
*again, i like luck better, just pointing out some of the stupid **** people are saying like it's a fact a fast QB will never win a super bowl without any proof.
I am pretty sure the mob killed Jimmy Hoffa, but hey, until that body shows up, there is just no proof.....
"you are basically saying a 4.3 sped guy playing QB is too unintelligent to recognize when he needs to get rid of the ball and when to use his speed to run."
Please read through any of my post and find where I said this. The only thing I pointed out was that RG3 ran a 4.3 and there has never been a quarterback to win the super bowl who has. I don't know why, but I find it a relevant fact. No, it does not mean it will never happen, but hey, one day liberals might let us drill on Anwar and the NRA might give up guns.
*again, i like luck better, just pointing out some of the stupid **** people are saying like it's a fact a fast QB will never win a super bowl without any proof.
I am pretty sure the mob killed Jimmy Hoffa, but hey, until that body shows up, there is just no proof.....
it is basically like saying a 6'2 3/4" QB has never won a super bowl. or a QB weighing 223 lbs has never won a super bowl. or a QB that ran a 4.51 40 has never won a QB. you are picking an arbitrary number and acting like because no QB before has done it the current one won't. <div>jcd5816 said:
</div><div>if RG3 fails or even is successful but never wins a super bowl, his 4.3 speed will not be the reason he failed.</div>